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Sgathak
2005-02-14, 05:58
http://www.shadowslight.com/pictures/stove/MVC-031S.JPG

http://www.shadowslight.com/pictures/stove/MVC-035S.JPG

Lanthar
2005-02-14, 09:54
nice, those are based on the clear lid aluminum cans you got?

Sgathak
2005-02-14, 17:17
Yup.

I think I need to move the burner ring in closer, since it takes a *little* too long for the flame to catch on the burner ring... and it wont catch at all unless theres a pot on top. Not sure if Rocks stove does the same thing.

Major Slacker
2005-02-14, 17:22
Nicely done. Got specs?

and let me guess: 2 bottoms -- 1 cut down to lid size -- 2 lids in the trash?

Sgathak
2005-02-14, 17:33
2in wide by 3/4in tall. It will hold a full oz of fuel. I dont have a scale that will measure that low so I dont know its weight.

As for how its constructed, yeah, you nailed it. Too much waste but I recycle the aluminum so its not the end of the world. Plus, since I have to cut down the lid, I can make it in different sizes. This is the smallest size it can be made in without silly amounts of modification, but I can make stoves a full 1in tall to increase fuel capacity.

Tins come in a 30pack, so 1 pack is good for 15 stoves.

SGT Rock
2005-02-14, 19:37
Looks a lot like my design. Usually I can't get the flames to show out the burner holes unless there is a pot on top. I have thought of adding a second lid that would be a simmer lid, that way you just change the top for what you want it to do.

Sgathak
2005-02-14, 19:43
Its damn close to your design.... the center hole is a skosh bigger and more burner holes, but otherwise, almost identical.

The two stoves were alot different when you were still making yours out of v8 cans. I just didnt have free cash to buy materials until Friday.

I thought I was all cutting edge and junk....... :bawling:

Sgathak
2005-02-14, 19:52
Oh! as for seperate simmer lids... I thought about it too. Im not so sure about it.

The bottom section expands into the lid when it heats up. Its a very small amount of expansion, but it does make the lid very tight until the metal cools. So, to do a simmer, you would have to kill the flame, wait for it to cool, then pry off the lid to replace it. Then relight it, by this time, the fuel is cooled off so much that you either wait a week for it to get going, or you have to prime it with a prime pan.

One thing I am condsidering is a very light OVERlid to cover off the main hole and about 6-8 of the burner holes.

SGT Rock
2005-02-14, 19:54
I thought about that too. I have some ideas to try.

SGT Rock
2005-02-14, 21:50
OK Sgathak, since we are both on about the same thought line here.

My model is 2-1/8" OD and 7/8" tall, I can cut it a little shorter but have left it this high. I use twelve 1/16" holes for the burner and I now use a 1" diameter center hole. I get a boil at about 65F in around 6 minutes, by shortening the stove a little I could get a touch faster. The center of mine is depressed slightly for looks, and even with this, the stove can hold 35ml of fuel when filled to the top. It weighs slightly more than the original V8 can stove, coming in at 8 grams instead of 7.

For making the center hole, I recently got an "anvil" to put at the bottom of my drill press and lock in to drill I pilot hole. To increase the diameter while not leaving a rough lip I recently acquired a "Chassis Punch" which will simply pressure cut the hole in the center. My burner holes are lined up with a template that is a 2" circle with the holes already in the right place. The circle is held in the correct place with a 1" dowel that fits snugly into place in the 1" filler hole. I then have a template that I use to mark the correct height on the burner lid to cut it down to size. I paint the lower half with the plastic lid still in place, then once it is dry I replace it with the burner cap.

For a simmer option, I am thinking of a simple ring to place over the stove that would block the burner holes and cut the center hole diameter down to 3/4". It would be a simple flat piece of aluminum with a short handle on the side so you can slide it over the top of the stove while it is burning. I think this should weigh 1 to 2 grams.

Sgathak
2005-02-15, 02:17
Your definatly more mechanized than I am... I did all mine with a hand drill. Drilled out the burner holes with a 1/8in drill on a paper template, run nails through 4 of the burner holes into a pine block jig, and use that to cut the center with a 1" circle blade.

Im trying to cut out a lexan jig that would sandwich the lid for burner drilling...

I think before I finalize a jig though that I need to finalize the burner pattern huh? Probably move 6 of the burner rings near the filler in a stagger pattern.

I cut a simmer cover out of oven liner. I was disappointed to see that it cut my burn time down by over a minute. Ive got some .025 aluminum that Im gonna give a shot. Maybe the tighter seal from a heavier material will help?

SGT Rock
2005-02-15, 07:45
Your definatly more mechanized than I am... I did all mine with a hand drill. Drilled out the burner holes with a 1/8in drill on a paper template, run nails through 4 of the burner holes into a pine block jig, and use that to cut the center with a 1" circle blade.

Im trying to cut out a lexan jig that would sandwich the lid for burner drilling...

I think before I finalize a jig though that I need to finalize the burner pattern huh? Probably move 6 of the burner rings near the filler in a stagger pattern.

I cut a simmer cover out of oven liner. I was disappointed to see that it cut my burn time down by over a minute. Ive got some .025 aluminum that Im gonna give a shot. Maybe the tighter seal from a heavier material will help?

Well, I am trying to get set to mass produce runs of stoves. The most time consuming part in still production of the stands, so I need to make sure everything else is as efficient as possible so I can maintain a common set of standards and maintain efficiency in building the burners.

I had thought about that staggered pattern myself, making a 12 hole pattern in two rings, but the spacing is so close I was worried about the spacing creating more issues than it really fixed. When I get back home I'll try making one like that.

I made a test simmer attachment for my stove with a soda can last night, its weight didn't even register on my scales it was so light. I practiced slipping it on the stove while a pot was on top last night and it went in very smooth. I didn't try it in a burn yet, but the goal is to get 5-7 ml to last 10 minutes. Based on my experiences it should work. I plan to cut one from aluminum flashing when I get home which may make the part add a gram.

The changing top idea was dismissed because you would have to let the stove cool off to change out,but this piece should be easy to slip on and stay in place while the stove is burning. I'll try to make a better looking version and find a way to get a picture out there soon, maybe this weekend when we are supposed to have a day off. Then again I may go hiking.

Sgathak
2005-02-15, 08:54
Willing to sell just the tiPod stand? My aluminum version is dumping too much heat.

I made a simmer plate out of the heavier guage... my burn time again DROPPED. 12 minutes w/o simmer plate. 10:30 minutes w/ simmer plate!!!! (both times w/ .5oz fuel)

Lanthar
2005-02-15, 11:10
Willing to sell just the tiPod stand? My aluminum version is dumping too much heat.

I made a simmer plate out of the heavier guage... my burn time again DROPPED. 12 minutes w/o simmer plate. 10:30 minutes w/ simmer plate!!!! (both times w/ .5oz fuel)

He had it listed on the ion stove site last time I checked.

SGT Rock
2005-02-15, 20:45
I plan to sell just the stands. Later I might even make them for custom stove sizes.

Sgathak
2005-02-16, 07:48
simmer plate

http://www.shadowslight.com/pictures/stove/MVC-039S.JPG

http://www.shadowslight.com/pictures/stove/MVC-040S.JPG

http://www.shadowslight.com/pictures/stove/MVC-043S.JPG

It should be noted this is the failed simmer plate... but its an example of what not to do I guess.

SGT Rock
2005-02-16, 09:31
Reccomendations:

1. Make a plate that covers the stove top.

2. Cut a 3/4" hole

3. Remove the tab on the far side.

4. Add two tabs on the sides near the handel, this way you have 4 tabs that form sort of a "U".

5. Make the handel long enough that it potrudes out about 1.5" and also has a leg that extends to the ground.

Now the way this works, you can slide it under the stand and on top of the stove while the stove is still burning to choke it down to simmer. The tab placement only allow it to slide into the correct position, the leg makes sure that it doesn't try to flip off the top. Try it :D

Sgathak
2005-02-16, 18:51
Im tracking with everything except


this way you have 4 tabs that form sort of a "U".

Sgathak
2005-02-16, 18:52
Belay that, I think I get it...

Tabs dropping down at 3, 5, 7, and 9 oclock with the handle coming out at 6... right?

Sgathak
2005-02-17, 05:50
I established a rather impressive burn time of over 21minutes with .5oz of fuel!!!!!

3 issues

1.) 3/4in is not enough. The stove chokes out quickly. I went up to 1in (same as my filler hole).
2.) Unless your *stove* will slide in and out of the stand, a simmer plate of equal diameter will not slide out either... shocking... Therefore, I needed to move the stand to place the simmer plate. Alternative designs of stand may solve this w/o increaseing size, and therfore weight.
3.) The extended handle was helpful, but there was no need to bend it down into a leg.

Considering point 2 there isnt really a "need" for a handle, I made a simmer plate with securing tabs similar to the 1st model plate (tabs at 12, 3, 6, and 9) in a 2in dia plate but with a 1in flame hole... I made it of .005in oven liner. It worked as well as the .025in simmer plate, at a significantly reduced weight. However, it was also dramatically less durable.

Major Slacker
2005-02-17, 06:03
2.) Unless your *stove* will slide in and out of the stand, a simmer plate of equal diameter will not slide out either...
What if your simmer plate stayed on the stove? If it had holes to match the outer burner holes, was loose enough to swivel and had a little tab to poke with a knife or ? you could open and close the holes as desired.

Sgathak
2005-02-17, 06:19
certainly an idea with plenty of merit!

Im not up for doing that right now... but Ill give a shot tomorrow

Lanthar
2005-02-17, 11:12
What if your simmer plate stayed on the stove? If it had holes to match the outer burner holes, was loose enough to swivel and had a little tab to poke with a knife or ? you could open and close the holes as desired.

sounds like a fondue burner

SGT Rock
2005-03-05, 11:59
I made my simmer plate, 1" was too much, the simmer was too close to a full burn. The issue I am having is that it isn't easy to cut out with the tabs and circle cut, it is almost not worth the extra effort to make in my opinion.

deadeye
2005-03-06, 20:18
Gents:

Have you tried these designs in cold weather? I've been experimenting with Sgt Rock's Ion design, and others similar to the stoves in this thread and others. In cold weather - I'm in Vermont and have been testing these in temperatures 20 degrees either side of zero F - they barely light, sputter a lot, and won't get a cup of water past hot, definitely not a boil. The only homemade alcohol-fueled stove I've had success with in these temps is the cat-food-can-inside-a-tuna-can stove. I believe it's Sarge's design, at that. My theory, based on observation, is that this design has fantastic air flow/drafting qualities that are lacking in the more closed can designs, so that the alcohol will burn well even at very cold temps.

Any thoughts? If you can't find a place with a walk-in freezer to test stoves in, send 'em my way quick, before the sub-zero nights are gone.

SGT Rock
2005-03-06, 21:18
Gents:

Have you tried these designs in cold weather? I've been experimenting with Sgt Rock's Ion design, and others similar to the stoves in this thread and others. In cold weather - I'm in Vermont and have been testing these in temperatures 20 degrees either side of zero F - they barely light, sputter a lot, and won't get a cup of water past hot, definitely not a boil. The only homemade alcohol-fueled stove I've had success with in these temps is the cat-food-can-inside-a-tuna-can stove. I believe it's Sarge's design, at that. My theory, based on observation, is that this design has fantastic air flow/drafting qualities that are lacking in the more closed can designs, so that the alcohol will burn well even at very cold temps.

Any thoughts? If you can't find a place with a walk-in freezer to test stoves in, send 'em my way quick, before the sub-zero nights are gone.

Well the Cat Stove was really created by Roy Robinson, father of Flyin' Brian Robinson the guy that did the triple crown in one year. Credit goes to him. :adore: I just thought his instructions were not the greatest in the world so I made an easier to follow set. :angel:

I've tested my stove down to the 20's and had great experiences, past that I cannot comment yet.

Major Slacker
2005-03-07, 20:11
Have you tried these designs in cold weather?
http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=129
http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=131
http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1054
I used one of these this past weekend with temps at and below 20. I had no trouble with it at all. Using a bit more than an ounce of d. alcohol it brought three cups of water to a boil and sustained that boil for at least a couple of minutes.

deadeye
2005-03-08, 13:34
We're supposed to have sub-zero temps again this week, hopefully for the last time this winter, but I won't get my hopes up, so I'll try again. I've followed the directions closely,but have not yet incorprated some of the latest tweaks, which may help. I think I may have made some other fatal errors as well... I've been using cans from seltzer water instead of beer :beerglass: - what was I thinking!?! :banghead:

Major Slacker
2005-03-08, 22:48
I've used a lighter, but the last time I tried it in cold weather I couldn't get the stove to light. I even kept the alcohol in my pocket and the lighter in the palm of my glove to keep them warm. Here's how I finally got the stove lit: I found a used matchstick (a dry twig would've worked too), dipped the tip of it into the alcohol, lit that with the lighter, then lit the stove with the lil' torch. Now I always use a wooden match to fire up my stove. It just works better, especially in cold weather.

SGT Rock
2005-03-08, 23:22
Try keeping a small birthday candel with your pot in cold weather, you can blow it out and re-use it.

Major Slacker
2005-03-09, 08:56
I save and re-use matchsticks like that, but the candle could also be used for a fire starter.