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Turk
2005-03-03, 18:28
I am having a "stupid day". Just wrote a post, thought I was in the wrong forum section, deleted it and realized I was in the right spot all along.

Anyways here is my question:

I tried to use 2 triple sliding hitches to lift a hammock higher while sitting in it.
This worked terrible. Anyone have any rock climbing background? Is there a knot or some kind of a hitch or some piece of climbing gear that would allow you to basically get in your hammock, haul on some ropes and raise yourself up firther off the ground? Can this be done, or is the idea just too far out?

The Hammocker
2005-03-03, 20:20
Sounds cool but I never heard of any thing like that.

Lanthar
2005-03-03, 20:49
I am having a "stupid day". Just wrote a post, thought I was in the wrong forum section, deleted it and realized I was in the right spot all along.

Anyways here is my question:

I tried to use 2 triple sliding hitches to lift a hammock higher while sitting in it.
This worked terrible. Anyone have any rock climbing background? Is there a knot or some kind of a hitch or some piece of climbing gear that would allow you to basically get in your hammock, haul on some ropes and raise yourself up firther off the ground? Can this be done, or is the idea just too far out?

Could be done, not sure if you could do it easily with just knots, but it could be done.

john pickett
2005-03-04, 11:43
Turk,
The easiest (tho maybe not lightest) way would involve pulleys at either end of the hammock.
John Pickett

Turk
2005-03-04, 18:48
pulleys was my first thought too, but I am inclined to think they would add alot of weight. Do climbers ever use pulleys? Maybe there is some kind of lightweight sort of pulley like Ti or something.

deadeye
2005-03-04, 19:53
Climbers use 'biners to do the job of pulleys. What I'm having difficulty picturing is how I pull on ropes once I'm inside the hammock :confused:

The Hammocker
2005-03-04, 22:14
I THINK I GOT IT!!!!:

Okay, here it goes.....

use tree huggers and put your carabiners on them. Thread the ropes through and then pull the ropes and tie them in the middle(kinda like a ridge line). Just an idea.
GOOD LUCK

jimtanker
2005-03-04, 23:43
Here goes:

Use the tree huggers on each tree, to each of those you use a lightweight carabiner. The ropes from your hammock go through each carabiner then to a jumar. One rope is tied to the standing end of the jumar and the other goes through its working part. The ropes need to be long enough to make it to each tree and then back to the middle with at least a foot to spare when its slack. Other than using a jumar, you could use a prussik knot.

Wild country rope man (http://store.yahoo.com/campmor/32011.html)

Or at least, this is what I can come up with off the top of my head. Other than that, go find some air assault guy. LOL. Dope on a rope!!!

Bjorkin
2005-03-06, 21:07
With climbing equipment, you're talking about ascenders for sliding up a rope and then grabbing the rope to hold your weight. Those can be expensive for a nice one and you'd need several for a whole hammock system.

I think a better system would be with pulleys. I love making hanging shelves for my home with pulleys. I think of it as functional art. When you add or take off an item from one shelf you have to adjust for the difference in weight on another shelf. Such as it is in life, you have to have balance. Blah, blah, anyway...

If you went with just pulleys, remember that for every complete block and tackle loop you cut the load weight by half but double the amount of rope needed.

I think you'd need 2 double pulleys attached at the top ends of the hammock, 4 single pulleys attached to your tree branch(es) (one over each hammock end, one in beween, and one to direct the rope load back down to your hammock where you sit and pull), and probably an ascender to use a "stop" against the last pulley. One end of the single rope system would be tied to one tree trunk at top pulley height and then run thru the pulleys like in the diagram below except adding an additional block and tackle to support the 2 hammock ends. (I hope this makes sense)

This should cut the work load to 1/8 of the dead weight being pulled. If you and the hammock weigh 200 lbs. then you only need to pull 25 lbs. worth to raise the hammock, BUT for every 8-feet of rope you pull you'll only raise yourself 1-foot.

It would definitely work but would be a pain in the arse initially to set up not to mention HEAVY. But, weight probably isn't as important as safety in your neck of the woods. Good luck, sounds like fun too!


http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/bt4.gif
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/bt7.gif

Turk
2005-03-07, 00:19
Well after my episode with the door frame yesterday, I found myself sitting around with not much to do. Wifey is a little worried about the concussion and all. I did however manage a nicely successful diverson tactic that allowed me to slip out to the hardware store and purchase several very lightweight 1 1/4" double sheeved fixed eye pulleys. They have a safe working load of 240 lbs. I've been sitting around trying to come up with a 4 pulley system that will work and require the least amount of time to set up.

Okay I dug out some nylon rope here and it says its got a safe working load of 280 lbs. not bad for 5/16" rope. Keeping the weight of the coil down is going to be crucial.


Just weighed my 4 pulleys and a coil of 5/16" nylon rope @ 50ft. Combined weight = 2.2 lbs. Hmm .. thats not bad. It felt like less, but thats really not bad. The question is ... will 50ft of rope be enough, and can 4 pulleys do it.
I think the rafters in the garage should give me a good space to build some test rigs. Will let you know how it goes. I can justify the weight if I can just make this work... will let you know how the trials go.

Iceman
2005-03-07, 01:01
How about pulling a couple of trees over and securing both down with a single rope. Tie your hammock to the tops of these bent over spring loaded trees, climb into your hammock, and slice the securing rope, when it is beddy bye time?

Bjorkin
2005-03-07, 01:03
Inspired by your experiment I started thinking of other climber tools and then I thought of porta-ledges.

Take a look at some of these.Bivouac Gear (http://www.pikamtn.com/9bivouacgear.html) Maybe not perfect, but I'm sure ideas could be borrowed from them.

Turk
2005-03-07, 01:14
Okay same deal as before, but rather than explain it in depth, here is a quick picture of what I have in mind for plan B of getting 9ft into a pair of trees. Physically I am certain I can handle this. I've got the body strength to perform the feats required. The question is ... how much energy will this take. And can it be done after a long day on the trail. That will remain to be seen. But first tell me if you see any glaring design flaws in this idea. Its super simplistic for weight reasons and requires a significant degree of acrobatics, but the general idea is you climb up rope C, walk along rope B to enter the hammock using rope A as your handrail. Once inside, exiting is a matter of making sure you don't snag up on the evac, grab rope B and swing your body down to a hanging position. Then just let go and jump to the ground.

http://www.geocities.com/roleplayingt2t/hh-b2.JPG

Ive got to figure out aproximate distances that each rope needs to be tied at on the trunks of the trees. I definately have to see how much deflection there will be on my walking rope and get it as tight as I can to avoid a slip. This will be the hardest part I think.

I am also seriously thinking about doing a major hammock modification to my HH backpacker ultralight to bring its strength up. I worry about impact stresses of getting into the hammock by this proposed method. The HH backpacker is only rated to 200 lbs, and I am 175 lbs. Its too close to be throwing your weight around on. Let me know what you think of idea 2.

Bjorkin
2005-03-07, 02:58
Tarzan, I mean Turk, :biggrin:

It looks feasible to me and I have a few thoughts.

1. If you find a branch at the right height you can use it to walk on instead of Rope "B". This would also allow you to do away with Rope "A" as the branch should be large enough to be fairly stable and you can always use the hammock itself for a handrail. If this branch, or better yet, lower branches, were off to the side just enough it could be used for the side tie-offs.

2. As above, you could use the hammock as a handrail instead of Rope "A". If the trees aren't too far apart you only need a step or two on Rope B before you reach the HH opening right? I would think you could just use the main HH support line to hold with one hand. If you pull it away from the tree, as the hammock does, it will provide all the stability you need. If it doesn't, then you may be 2:2 with your concussion:experiment ratio. :hahaha: :banghead:

Lanthar
2005-03-07, 15:26
How about pulling a couple of trees over and securing both down with a single rope. Tie your hammock to the tops of these bent over spring loaded trees, climb into your hammock, and slice the securing rope, when it is beddy bye time?

hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

The Hammocker
2005-03-07, 20:30
I think Iceman had a good idea(LOL) :biggrin: :rolleyes: :) :elefant: :smile: :biggrin: :rolleyes: :laugh:

jimtanker
2005-03-08, 00:15
Quote from Bjorkin
With climbing equipment, you're talking about ascenders for sliding up a rope and then grabbing the rope to hold your weight. Those can be expensive for a nice one and you'd need several for a whole hammock system.

The Rope Man in the link that I posted weighs in at 2.2 Oz. and only costs $27 . You would only need one of them and about 1/4 the rope needed to set up all those pulleys.

Bjorkin
2005-03-08, 00:28
Great, but I don't understand your system. Even when using a jumar properly you need at least 2 so I'm not clear how you can raise yourself in a hammock with one jumar AND a full work load. You need some pulleys to cut the load and friction down because without them you'll never effectively pull your own weight by just your arms.

Turk
2005-03-08, 00:34
The Rope Man in the link that I posted weighs in at 2.2 Oz. and only costs $27 . You would only need one of them and about 1/4 the rope needed to set up all those pulleys.

Okay, how do I use this thing to do the job?

GregH
2005-03-08, 22:47
Am I reading this correctly that you're going to string the hammock 9' above the ground?

youngblood
2005-03-09, 08:52
Am I reading this correctly that you're going to string the hammock 9' above the ground?
You say that like there is something weird about it :) ... check this out http://www.dancingwithtrees.com/treetop_camping.htm . I remember seeing a photo of other tree climbers using Ed Speers hammock in one of his newletters. If I remember correctly Ed said they used their climbing harnesses pretty much until they got into the hammocks... you would probably need to use a different approach with the bottom entry hammocks.

Youngblood

GregH
2005-03-09, 12:11
Now that was something I had not seen before. It looks like fun.

The Hammocker
2005-03-20, 21:20
Yeah but can't you do that without paying a ton of $$

icedancer
2005-04-01, 21:21
I think bjorkin is on to something with the block and tackle, but you still have to get that upper block twelve feet or more up each tree. New Tribe (http://www.newtribe.com) sells a beginners kit for tree climbing for $400 that weighs 18lbs! but that will keep you safe and comfortable 100 feet up all day. To get just twelve feet up I suspect you could use a combination of ascenders made with kleimheist or prussik knots, a rope harness made with double alpine or bowline on a bight or something like this web harness (http://www.brmrg.net/knots/seat.html). Of course, you better be sure of your knots! :egg: This page (http://fmg-www.cs.ucla.edu/geoff/prusik_knot.html) describes how to do it for us non-climbers. It sounds like fun and probably doable at the end of a long day. I'm going to try it in the backyard this weekend.

Of course, once you are up there, you might as well hang the hammock at that height and go for plan B.

Getting in an out of the hammock, especially a Hennessy, is going to be the real trick. If you do hang it high I'd follow the advice of the treeclimbers and stay clipped in to a harness all night in case something fails.

JohnG
2005-04-25, 13:49
Turk --

I think that you have an interesting idea with Plan B... The biggest concern that I have with hanging a HH 9+ feet up in a tree is that you will have a lot more sway from with than you will have closer to the ground. This will, of course, depend on the size and spp of trees you're hanging in...

Even in a mild breeze (say, 5-10 mph), 9' up in a tree will sway at least several inches, causing you to rock and bounce up and down (the "trampoline effect") a fair amount. If a storm or stronger winds blow in, the tree could easily sway 6" or a foot... I would also be concerned about the seams giving out on the hammock -- especially when the two trees are swaying in different directions or at different rates.

You might be better off hanging the hammock from two branches of the same tree, assuming that you could fine a tree with large enough branches far enough apart (which may be difficult in the jack pine of quetico...)

Regardless of these concerns, I think that it's a good idea for a way to get out of moose/bear range... Keep us posted on the developments!

-john

Verlager
2005-04-26, 00:17
The Wildcountry Ropeman I is what you want; it's light, well-made.

BTW, if any element of the load bearing rope and pulley setup fails, a fall could result that might damage your neck / head, and cripple you for life.


slip out to the hardware store and purchase several very lightweight 1 1/4" double sheeved fixed eye pulleys. They have a safe working load (SWL) of 240 lbs.Not safe enough. A 1000+ lb. SWL rating on each pulley is better. The load is shared equally by both ends of the hammock, so it is halved. But I wonder if the the horizontal angle of the hammock pitch might mean an effective pull of >1000 lbs. Any one know?


Okay I dug out some nylon rope here and it says its got a safe working load of 280 lbs. not bad for 5/16" rope. Keeping the weight of the coil down is going to be crucial.A 280 lb. working limit for 5/16" rope is not enough; climbers use accessory cord of that size (5/16" = 0.3125" = 7.94 mm = 8.0 mm accessory cord) that has a >2500 lb. breaking strength. Advances in technology have made climbing ropes and cordage stronger and such double braided ropes are effectively armored (sheathed) to better withstand the abuse of the metal teeth of a rope grab device such a Wildcountry Ropeman I/II or Jumar-type ascender.

The nylon rope from a home center like Lowe's or Home Depot is fragile stuff and is not to be used in a critical load bearing situation. Use the toy ropes for modeling and prototypes, not for the real load bearing application.

Use only climbing or nautical cordage for critical load bearing applications.

Remember: No moving nylon over stationary nylon. If you want to use a pulley to change direction, consider using a few carabiners, instead. (two carabiners = 5 tons capacity and will not kink the rope.) Carabiners have multiple uses, pulleys don't, but pulleys have less friction. Always try to have a 5:1 safety margin. Expect to get a 3:1, 4:1, or greater mechanical advantage from your pulley system. Attach the strongest pulleys first in line to the main anchor, as these non-moving pulleys will do most of the grunt work. A pulley system w/o a moving pulley ("traveling block") just changes direction and imparts no mechanical advantage. But such pulleys just take up slack and don't need to be the strongest in the link.

Krusty
2005-05-18, 03:02
Howdy all... I don't even own a hammock yet, still studying the options. As far as going up in the air, why not dig the ground out from underneath??? yuk yuk

Just a bit of humor...

I really enjoy reading all of the good items posted

Krusty