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SGT Rock
2005-05-22, 16:48
I know some of y'all use a Heineken Keg Can (HKC) as a pot. I saw one on the ground today and took it home to play with. After hacking off the top, it came in at 32 grams. What I started thinking about was getting or making a Heineken cozy and getting a coffee cup drink lid to serve as the pot top, sort of like an ultralight JetBoil PCS.

I then cut a TiPod like stand (Upside down) so that the can rested on three points of contact. I'm going to make a new stand with a mod so the concave bottom can rest into a notch for more stability. With the little bit of mod, I got a good flame pattern from an Ion Stove and the stand would serve dual use purpose with Esbit.

So, do any of you HKC as a pot eat out of it, or is this just a boil and bag style cooking system for you? Also, anyone out there tried some of these ideas I'm thinking of and what were your experiences?

SGT Rock
2005-05-22, 19:53
I made up a HeineBoil PCS - Personal Cook System a play on the JetBoil PCS.

Here are the numbers:

Pot with lid: 34 grams - 1.2 ounces
Ion Stove: 8 grams - 0.3 ounces
Custom stand: 9 grams - 0.3 ounces
Windscreen: 9 grams - 0.3 ounces
Scripto Lighter: 18 grams - 0.6 ounces
Closed cell foam cozy with handle: 28 grams - 1 ounce
Fuel bottle: 21 grams - 0.7 ounces
9.6 ounces of denatured alcohol: 224 grams - 7.9 ounces

Total weight: 351 grams or 12.4 ounces start weight for 13 boils. If you were to take it for just 5 days and only want 2 boils per day, then that would be 10.8 ounces start weight and you would have an average weight carried of only 7.7 ounces.

I tested the stove out for efficiency with 76F water to 208F, it did it on 15ml of alcohol, but that was a fairly controled test.

Anyway, thought y'all might be interested. I'll try to get some pictures up later.

SGT Rock
2005-05-22, 22:40
Tested from 55F water with 15ml denatured alcohol, boiled 16 fluid ounces of water in 15:05. I partially melted my drinking lid - I'll have to work on that point.

Hog On Ice
2005-05-23, 09:01
the HKC system I use is just boil and then pour into a bag for the cooking - I have reasonably good efficiency with the tea light candle tin for the burner (less than 0.1 ounce) and the pot support is hardware cloth 1.5 inches high (3 squares) by 15 squares around - fits just inside the lip of the HKC and is very stable. The wind screen is made from the sidewalls of a couple coke cans - crimp together on one end and slotted together on the other - works well once it has been heated a few times to soften the metal a bit. I use the spark-lite flint and steel wheel to light the burner - the burner is filled all the way with alcohol (about 0.5 ounce) and I adjust my water level to get a boil - generally this will boil 1.75 cups of water in about 10 minutes. For a cover for the HKC pot I use a piece of foil and weigh it down with a small rock or a granola bar. A piece of foil is also put under the burner for a bottom reflector / table protector. The cozy I use holds sandwich sized zip lock bags which is just right for the typical liptons meals / macaroni etc. The cozy is made from an old army closed cell sleeping pad and it has a separate top that I put on and hold down with a fist sized rock or a water bottle.

SGT Rock
2005-05-23, 09:09
Thanks HOI, I liked the version that you sent me in Iraq but it was a casualty of war and I didn't have it to keep playing with. My cozy could be used for boil and bag cooking which is a good option, and it can serve as a cozy for the pot so I can just make some coffee. I made a new cap from some oven liner last night and that works well at 0.1 ounces while holding fairly tight. I still want to tweak the windscreen and I want to find a top that I can use to drink from like from a Styrofoam coffee cup.

Hog On Ice
2005-05-23, 09:16
for drinking from the HKC I have found it to be OK just as is - the metal is thin enough that there is not enough heat to burn your lips so long as your sips are short

tinny3
2005-05-29, 21:54
http://minibulldesign.com/myadventure/media/1/20050529-Picture%20377.jpg

Hey guys I tried a different spin on the heineken beer can cooker. I took the bottom of one and cut it off about 1-1/2 inches above the bottom ring. then i filled it full of water and set another can inside it until the bottom ring catches on the edge of the first one then I filled the second one up with water and made a cover out of another can bottom. I fired up a small atomic stove and brought it all up to speed. The bottom boiled but the top one went to 190 deg and stopped. This is not hot enought to burn stuff but hot enought to cook or simmer stuff like white sauce and goose liver pattay. When filled it boiled for 30 minutes and the top boiler stayed right at 190 the whole time. ---Tinny--

SGT Rock
2005-05-31, 18:18
Hey Tinny, seems like you could start selling the HCS on your site if you could find a supply.

SGT Rock
2005-06-01, 22:34
Here are some pics of the system I came up with and weights:

http://hikinghq.net/images/HKC/100_0362.JPG

The Heineken cook system with cozy and aluminum cooking lid. The handel on the side is a velcro strap. The cozy is made from Evazote foam padding.

http://hikinghq.net/images/HKC/100_0365.JPG

This is the system with a coffee lid on it.

http://hikinghq.net/images/HKC/100_0366.JPG

Here is the Esbit stove - the stand is titanium, the Esbit holder is made from a tealight candle holder.

http://hikinghq.net/images/HKC/100_0368.JPG

The pot attached to the stand using the custom made notch.

http://hikinghq.net/images/HKC/100_0369.JPG

The whole system set up for cooking with the extra tall windscreen.

Total system including:
Pot with aluminum lid and coffee lid - 34 grams/1.2 ounces
Windscreen and bottom reflector - 13 grams/0.5 ounces
Evazote Cozy with strap handel - 15 grams/0.5 ounces
Stove stand and Esbit holder - 10 grams/0.4 ounces
Zip lock for holding esbit fuel - 3 grams/0.1 ounces
Scripto lighter - 18 grams/0.6 ounces
Total Weight - 93 grams/3.3 ounces

I did a test outside and I got a boil off 10 grams of Esbit. So for planning I would probably ration two 14 gram blocks @ 1 ounce fuel per day. That would make my fuel needs right at 7 ounces fuel for a week on the trail or a total start weight of 10.3 ounces. Not bad at all.

tinny3
2005-06-12, 22:09
i have used the heineken can for a pot and it works good. Super light weight!!
I have lately been using a minibull STEALTH stove with the jets repositioned to adjust for the small bottom on this can. it is a little tippy but if you pay attention it works great and the stove only weighs about 7 grams and requires no potstand.

Deerleg
2005-06-13, 23:56
Heres my 2 cents...carefully scored lid and it still fits nicely as a cover.

JAK
2005-07-11, 15:55
I have been working on something similar but you guys are way ahead of me. I have a few ideas to contribute:

1. Muffler tape is a useful material to use for some things.
2. Beeswax makes a better hotter tealight that other wax.
3. When your tealight is half burned you can add drops of olive oil to save the wax as long as the wick holds out.

What I built was a regular mug on three legs and 1 to 3 tealights underneath a 2 litre pop bottle with the bottom cut off as a very tight wind screen. I used one layer of muffler tape around drinking straws as removable legs. I made more tubes sticky side out and stuck 6 on the side of the mug and then wrapped all around with the muffler tape. The removable legs go in these and they also serve to make it easier to grab the mug without a handle and also to space the wind screen off the side. I used muffler tape also on the inside of the pop bottle but only on one side so that it serves as a lantern for reading at night. The plastic doesn't melt as long as there is water in the mug. I haven't done an accurate test yet but the tealights were only burning at about 1/8 oz per hour but I think I got 500ml of water from 40F to 140F in about 15 minutes with 3 candles. Good for reading but not for cooking in a hurry.

I would like to use a big aluminum can for the pot/mug to save weight.

Nightwalker
2005-07-14, 14:39
I did a test outside and I got a boil off 10 grams of Esbit. So for planning I would probably ration two 14 gram blocks @ 1 ounce fuel per day. That would make my fuel needs right at 7 ounces fuel for a week on the trail or a total start weight of 10.3 ounces. Not bad at all.
Hey Rock!

Have you tested Trioxane as compared to Esbit? I get Trioxane way cheap at a mil. surplus store, but it isn't quite as efficient as the Esbit tabs.

JAK
2005-07-14, 20:45
Is it best to break an esbit in half or quarters if you only want to use part of it, or do you just blow it out?

Is it safe to mix esbit or trioxane with anything else like some olive oil or beeswax to get the advantage of the burn rate of the esbit and the BTU/oz of the oil or wax?

I used an esbit in my swiss corked flask stove the other day and it worked really well, but maybe just a wee bit hot for the aluminum. I thought if I broke it into pieces and used it with the oil or wax it would be a good combination.

Are Esbits safe to use inside a tent or not?
The fumes don't smell very good. If you avoid most of the smell do you avoid most of whatever might be bad news?

SGT Rock
2005-07-14, 21:44
Hey Rock!

Have you tested Trioxane as compared to Esbit? I get Trioxane way cheap at a mil. surplus store, but it isn't quite as efficient as the Esbit tabs.

Yep, I did that one already. Here were the results: http://hikinghq.net/stoves/esbit.html#Esbit%20vs%20Trioxane%20Fuel

JAK
2005-07-15, 14:58
I wonder if you wrapped muffler tape around a PET bottle you could boil water in it? Maybe 2 layers on the bottom. I don't think the tape would have to go all the way up to the top. For small but efficient stoves the wind screen should block the wind, insulate the sides, but also limit the flow of air and gases so there is not too much excess oxygen. 500ml of water needs about 100 BTU to go from 40F to 140F which requires only about 3-4g of fuel. If you assume 6g or 1/4 oz in 15 minutes you will only need about 80g of air or 90 litres of exhaust or more like 1 litre of exhaust gases every 10 seconds. If your wind screen is a 2 litre pop bottle with a 2cm diameter neck the exit velocity works out to be 1 foot per second. You can make the opening a bit bigger. You will want most of the heat transfer on the bottom but some on the sides as it passes between the wind screen and the water container. I think a of about 1 cm all the way around with spacer tubes of muffler tape to keep it even. The windscreen can be lined on the inside with muffler tape and insulate on the outside with blue foam. So you might as well get rid of the pop bottle altogether except for the funnel on top.

So to recap and rethink. Wind screen made of blue foam lined with muffler tape with holes on bottom and a funnel on the top to slow down and collect the exhaust before it escapes. Floor made of blue foam and muffler tape also with your small burner mounted. Similarly, the water container can be a 500ml or 1000ml PET bottle lined with muffler tape, or for better heat transfer a beer can taped ro a PET bottle top so it can carry and pour water nicely. The stove can be 3 tealights secured to the floor. The water bottle can be spaced and secured to the wind screen and spaced off the bottom by 1-4 inches. You might be able to carry the whole think while hiking. You can have a window/door made of PET so you can light the stove and see in and allow the light to shine out as a lantern. You can't use it unless it full of water. Things might also melt down or burn if the water gets too hot for too long so you might switch to 1 tealight when in lantern mode.

Burn rate of 3 tealights = 140 BTU in 15 minutes.
One 500ml hot drink every 15 minutes.

Burn rate of 1 tealight = 200 BTU in 1 hour.
One 500ml hot drink every hour.

You might not want to duct tape this to you head but I seem to recall seeing something like this maybe on the Red Green Show.

dougmeredith
2005-07-15, 16:35
I went looking for one of these today, and the only thing I could find was 330 ml. Is this the can you guys are talking about?

Doug

Hog On Ice
2005-07-15, 18:02
the Heineken can that I use as a pot is 24 ounces originally (710 ml) its probably about 600-650 ml now that I chopped the top off

dougmeredith
2005-08-29, 21:30
My sister was coming to visit from Ontario, so I got her to pick me up four of these to experiment with. The beer is now gone, but I haven't gotten around to making a pot yet. Any tricks to cutting the top off without leaving a dangerous edge?

Doug

Hog On Ice
2005-08-30, 13:04
what I do is to use a knife to do the initial cut around and then trim the edge with a small pair of sissors then finish by rubbing the edge inside and out with the metal handle of a pair of pliers so as to round off any edge left from the sissors.

Lanthar
2005-08-30, 15:26
The postings on BPL.com seem to indicate that the "good cook" sidecut can opener (available from walgreens) works well. I need to get time to pick one up.

dougmeredith
2005-08-30, 15:52
The postings on BPL.com seem to indicate that the "good cook" sidecut can opener (available from walgreens) works well. I need to get time to pick one up.

Interesting. I did a little searching and came up with some third-party info on this:

http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/canopenermamabear.htm

Doug

skysappr
2005-09-01, 01:52
Ok I have one of these and just read the posts in relation to them. I just tried on a mountain dew can and can't seem to get it to lock up. How exactly are we using this type of can opener on aluminum cans to cut the tops off?

Kea
2005-09-01, 03:00
Don't you guys worry about the coatings coming off the inside of the cans? I thought those were some kind of icky plastic, not that the aluminum salts are much better.

dougmeredith
2005-09-01, 08:37
Ok I have one of these and just read the posts in relation to them. I just tried on a mountain dew can and can't seem to get it to lock up. How exactly are we using this type of can opener on aluminum cans to cut the tops off?

I couldn't find the Good Cook brand, but I got another one at Wal-Mart that said it left safe edges. I tried it on the HKC and had a fair bit of difficulty getting it to lock onto the can. Eventually I got it to work.

Doug

Hog On Ice
2005-09-01, 08:39
I have not had any problem with the coating coming off in the two years I have been using my current pot - its a food grade plastic that can handle boiling water temps plus a little. I do take care not to scratch the lining and all I use the pot for is to boil water. For eating I eat out of a ziplock bag - makes cleanup real easy - I just use a bandana to wipe out whatever water remains in the pot.

tinny3
2005-09-09, 21:38
Check out this stove and beer can pot --http://www.minibulldesign.com/video/sst.wmv

Scout
2005-09-10, 18:00
Tinny that is a bad a$$ stove! Super hot I imagine. Great mind at work for sure!

blink-1
2006-01-23, 21:08
I'm contemplating giving this rig a try. Can anyone advise how they keep the can from getting squished in the pack or when dropping your back back? Thanks

Buck
Cincinnati, OH

Hog On Ice
2006-01-24, 09:27
1. I have had good luck packing the Heineken pot in the middle of my food bag - usually does not get too bent

2. If it does get a bit out of shape it is easy to put back to reasonable shape using your hands

3. The longer I use the pot the less it seems to get bent - perhaps prior bends help stiffen the pot

Seeker
2006-01-24, 10:54
I'm contemplating giving this rig a try. Can anyone advise how they keep the can from getting squished in the pack or when dropping your back back? Thanks

Buck
Cincinnati, OH

don't "drop" your pack... set it down nicely... baby your gear. sorry, i know that's not overly constructive...

oops56
2006-01-24, 10:55
Yep its very easy to keep it getting bent or out of shape take full ones

blink-1
2006-01-24, 12:51
Yep its very easy to keep it getting bent or out of shape take full ones

I like the way you think. My problems is I 'd end up having 6 pots the morning after and probably wouldn't want to get out of my hammock. :beerglass

At least my pack would be way lighter!

Seeker
2006-01-24, 14:17
i don't use the Heineken pot myself, but i'm wondering... if you bring a bowl made from an old koolaid jar with lid, would the pot fit safely inside? if the sides of the pot are low enough, that might be the way to go... sort of defeats the purpose though... the pot and bowl/lid might end up weighing as much as a single heavier/sturdier pot.

blink-1
2006-01-24, 19:05
I checked a local beer store for the Heine Keg Cans and they only had the small ones. I was certain they would have the larger size and since they don't, I believe I may have a hard time finding the big ones in this area. Anyone use the Fosters can for the same purpose? Any potential problems there? Thanks for the advise. I'm getting excited to shed some weight from my pack!

incognito
2006-01-24, 20:01
blink-1, I have not used the fosters but just wanted to say that I use my Hine just for boiling water like HOI does. I have not cut the top off, it acts as my LID. No need for the top to come off if its used for water boiling only. Hope this helps.

Hog On Ice
2006-01-25, 10:54
Main reason I cut the top off was so I could store the rest of the components of the system in the pot - usually I will have the tea light candle tin (qty 2, one for alcohol and one for oil lamp), the Spark-Lite spark wheel, matches (backup to spark wheel and for cold weather), pot stand (hardware cloth cylinder), windscreen (soda can side walls crimped together on one end and slotted together on the other), bottom reflector/table protector (piece of foil), oil lamp wick holder (bent piece of wire), oil lamp "globe" (side wall of a soda bottle with string attached and vent holes on bottom edge), 1 ounce bottle of alcohol that I use to fill the burner, and a spoon. The lid to the pot that I use these days fits snugly on the bottom of the pot when packed up (Campbells soup/chili bowl with pipewrap insulation and foil covering).

The secondary reason I chop the top off is so I can get my hand inside the pot to dry it out with a bandana.

With respect to the Foster's can - yes it can be used but the sides are more difficult to grip with the bandana pot holder (fold bandana 4 times to make 16 layers of cloth) - the Heineken can has those large ridges that make picking it up a little easier. The Fosters can is also slightly smaller diameter which may make it slightly less efficient than the Heineken can (more heat going up the sides of the can). One other item wrt the advantage of the Heineken can over the Foster's can - the ridges on the Heineken can help keep the can from being deformed when in the pack.

wrt finding the 24 ounce Heineken keg can - the first place I found one was at a Sheetz gas station - you may want to check at that type of a place - C-Stores

note at least one state (AL as I recall) prohibits sale of the larger cans - I assume this is not your problem since you can find the Fosters cans.

blink-1
2006-01-25, 18:23
Great info, HOI. I'll check my handy dandy gas-station for a 40 of Heine. I was planning on storing as much in the can as I could as well. This is my first major attempt and lightening up (other than my HH, that is,) and it's so much cheaper than a ti-pot or kettle.

Thanks again,

Buck

Seeker
2006-01-25, 19:07
blink,

if you could deal with the 4.5 oz of an MSR Titan Kettle, the walmart grease pot is a great alternative... my daughter got me one for christmas or my birthday a few years back, but i've since replaced it with the kettle (another b-day present). but i still take it with us when we go out together on an overnight, since it's bigger. it also weighs just 4.5 oz, and stores a lot more inside than the kettle... one mod i made though, since it lacks a handle, is to drill two holes in the topr rim for a wire bail. i then had to modify the lid with two corresponding slits so it would all fit. if you made the holes a little lower, the lid would fit without the slits (perfect hindsight, now.) the bail saves the weight of a pot holder/pliers thing.

my MSR blacklight pots weigh somewhere around 7 and 9 oz, i think... so the greasepot, for all the $6 it costs, was half the weight... a good deal if you're not wanting to use a Heineken can.

good luck.

Salvelinus
2006-01-25, 22:07
I used to use the grease pot, but I decided the rolled-in rim wasn't for me. Especially when it dumped a bunch of rust and who-knows-what-else into the water I was boiling. :vollkomme

For only a couple bucks more, I got the 3-cup Antigravity Gear pot which is almost exactly the same size and weight, with a rolled-out rim, an easier-to-use lid, and non-stick coating (also comes in anodized).

Just an idea . . . :)

Seeker
2006-01-25, 23:36
oh yeah... i forgot about that lip... i cut mine off, and then filed the edge almost perfectly smooth, and sanded it with some 600 grit stuff.... you almost can't tell it ever had a rolled lip... but yeah, it is a pain... keeps the pot a little stiffer though, but i've yet to have my pot get badly bent...

blink-1
2006-01-25, 23:55
Managed to find a source of the big Heine cans tonight. The woman who runs the store says she always stocks them. I'd be happy to ship them at cost to anyone who can't find one local . . . empty of course, to avoid any shipping of beer issues! :beerglass :rolleyes:

incognito
2006-01-28, 19:07
blink-1, I have not used the fosters but just wanted to say that I use my Hine just for boiling water like HOI does. I have not cut the top off, it acts as my LID. No need for the top to come off if its used for water boiling only. Hope this helps.

I use an extra large bandage cut in half through the center of pad(leave the pad on, it acts as a tab). They have extra strength adhesive(water proof). Fill the can with water, seal with band aide, put in outside pocket of pack. I use 2 cans for overnighters. When thirsty, peel back bandaide, drink, reseals secure. When empty apply bandaide to strategic spot on can, use this point to pick up hot can wait till several layers have been applied, leave them there for future use, when necessary replace.

They carry my water and cook it too!!!!!!!

Gingerman
2007-06-21, 23:20
Heres my 2 cents...carefully scored lid and it still fits nicely as a cover.

If you take off the top of the can with a safety can opener, that cuts from the side, leaving a smooth bead on both edges (costs about $10 at Target), remove the pull tab, and you have a good pot lid that can be removed by sticking a stick into the hole. Works for me.

Skidsteer
2007-06-22, 23:21
If you take off the top of the can with a safety can opener, that cuts from the side, leaving a smooth bead on both edges (costs about $10 at Target), remove the pull tab, and you have a good pot lid that can be removed by sticking a stick into the hole. Works for me.

Or leave the pull tab intact and thread some rawhide through it. (http://www.jumpcut.com/view?id=2FE50034213011DC917D000423CF4092&type=)

Take-a-knee
2007-06-23, 00:41
Listen to Skid folks, he's all over this Heine pot thing, check out his Whiteblaze posts and see for yourself.

pure_mahem
2007-06-23, 10:20
i don't use the Heineken pot myself, but i'm wondering... if you bring a bowl made from an old koolaid jar with lid, would the pot fit safely inside? if the sides of the pot are low enough, that might be the way to go... sort of defeats the purpose though... the pot and bowl/lid might end up weighing as much as a single heavier/sturdier pot.
I haven't seen them in a while but then again I don't exactly look at the sugar drinks anymore, being a diabetic. But, Country Time Lemonade use to have an extra large Plastic container w/ a measuring top lid that could work perfectly Just by cutting of the top of the jar above the threaded portion. Also The lid could double as a bowl, The jar as a cup and the Whole thing A self contained mess kit. Just add a Pair of chopsticks from take out; "Ramen Anyone?"

Hhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm ..........

Lemonade and Heinikien.....maybe a new drink...........noted to be seen around hikers using Heini Keg Pots!
:beer:

JAK
2007-06-23, 19:48
Rather than start a new thread I think this question might fit in here.

What do you guys use for drinking hot drinks while on the trail? I used to use my Kelly Kettle and a wide mouth Nalgene bottle. Since then I have messed around with lots of other ideas but I am not I have found anything that worked as well, even though Nalgene bottles are heavy, and Kelly Kettles are heavy and bulky. It was hard to beat the combination for stopping to make a hot drink and keeping going.

Has anyone tried these 900ml Jolt cans with the reusable lid? If you lose the plastic bit the lid no longer seals, but you can improvise with another piece of plastic. The can is rather hot to handle however, so you would need a cozy. I am thinking of a permament cozy on the top half, that won't burn when I am heating up the bottom half on some sort of a hobo stove. Then I was thinking a removable cozy for the bottom half. I think with the cozy it would still be about the diameter of a Nalgene bottle.

That's the setup I am working on now:
1. Coffee Can Hobbo Stove - simple as ever, but with ceramic wool insulatation for better performance.
2. Aluminum Jolt Flask - with permament and removable cozy.
3. Maybe a 2nd flask, or a plastic bottle for 2nd water carrier.
4. Tin cup or pot or just a plastic mug/bowl for oatmeal etc.
5. Spoon.

oops56
2007-06-23, 21:17
Rather than start a new thread I think this question might fit in here.

What do you guys use for drinking hot drinks while on the trail? I used to use my Kelly Kettle and a wide mouth Nalgene bottle. Since then I have messed around with lots of other ideas but I am not I have found anything that worked as well, even though Nalgene bottles are heavy, and Kelly Kettles are heavy and bulky. It was hard to beat the combination for stopping to make a hot drink and keeping going.

Has anyone tried these 900ml Jolt cans with the reusable lid? If you lose the plastic bit the lid no longer seals, but you can improvise with another piece of plastic. The can is rather hot to handle however, so you would need a cozy. I am thinking of a permament cozy on the top half, that won't burn when I am heating up the bottom half on some sort of a hobo stove. Then I was thinking a removable cozy for the bottom half. I think with the cozy it would still be about the diameter of a Nalgene bottle.

That's the setup I am working on now:
1. Coffee Can Hobbo Stove - simple as ever, but with ceramic wool insulatation for better performance.
2. Aluminum Jolt Flask - with permament and removable cozy.
3. Maybe a 2nd flask, or a plastic bottle for 2nd water carrier.
4. Tin cup or pot or just a plastic mug/bowl for oatmeal etc.
5. Spoon.

Jak go here he done it and sell it i northing to with his sales just buy from him

http://www.minibulldesign.com/fs2.htm

incognito
2007-06-24, 00:45
Rather than start a new thread I think this question might fit in here.

What do you guys use for drinking hot drinks while on the trail? I used to use my Kelly Kettle and a wide mouth Nalgene bottle. Since then I have messed around with lots of other ideas but I am not I have found anything that worked as well, even though Nalgene bottles are heavy, and Kelly Kettles are heavy and bulky. It was hard to beat the combination for stopping to make a hot drink and keeping going.

Has anyone tried these 900ml Jolt cans with the reusable lid? If you lose the plastic bit the lid no longer seals, but you can improvise with another piece of plastic. The can is rather hot to handle however, so you would need a cozy. I am thinking of a permament cozy on the top half, that won't burn when I am heating up the bottom half on some sort of a hobo stove. Then I was thinking a removable cozy for the bottom half. I think with the cozy it would still be about the diameter of a Nalgene bottle.

That's the setup I am working on now:
1. Coffee Can Hobbo Stove - simple as ever, but with ceramic wool insulatation for better performance.
2. Aluminum Jolt Flask - with permament and removable cozy.
3. Maybe a 2nd flask, or a plastic bottle for 2nd water carrier.
4. Tin cup or pot or just a plastic mug/bowl for oatmeal etc.
5. Spoon.

JAK take a look at this one. It's a Rockstar can (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/ringoffire.jpg)and it's the same siz as the Jolt I think. This photo shows a Snapple aluminum can (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/spookcamp033.jpg) being heated by what is known as a Ring of Fire burner. Here is a thread that gives some info about boil times etc. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=360364&postcount=112)

Skidsteer
2007-06-24, 10:08
Rather than start a new thread I think this question might fit in here.

What do you guys use for drinking hot drinks while on the trail?

I came up with the system described in this thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21381) a while back. It has evolved a bit so I'll describe the changes I've made.

The Ziploc cup was just a skitch too small to be able to fit my windscreen inside so I switched to a one quart plastic(HDPE)paint container found in Lowe's or Home Depot. It served well but I was worried that it wouldn't stand up to boiling water very well over the long term.

Then I came across a PP container of the correct size in a thrift store for ten cents. It's perfect and I love it. It's shown in this video (http://www.jumpcut.com/view/?id=F7BDF4F61ECB11DCAE08000423CEF682).

I recently discovered the exact same containers (http://www.jumpcut.com/view?id=2DA8D984225311DCB80A000423CF382E&type=)are used for the cotton candy found in many grocery stores, if anyone would like to try making this setup for themselves.

I still use the ten cent thrift store cup myself(rather than the cotton candy container)because it appeals to the dirtbagger in me.:biggrin:

Total weight is still right at about 4 oz. for everything. Works for me.

JAK
2007-06-24, 10:44
Thanks for the replies. I bought two more Jolts last night and drank them while playing RISK last night. 695ml not 900ml as I had said. Absolutely horrible stuff by the way, but a great flask. I've tried the Red, Blue, and Silver so far. Can they possibly come up with a worse flavour that is that bad for your health? Anyhow, great insentive not to lose these cans and have to buy more. I want to make them work with a simple hobbo wood stove on the Fundy Footpath, as an alternative to my Kelly Kettle. Plenty of food fuel on the Fundy Footpath and safe places to burn it even in a dry summer. I am planning on doing 4 days with my daughter over our July 1st long weekend. (Dominion Day in Kanuckistan) Anyhow, I plan on getting down to Mt. Katahdin some day and will definitely drop in on Tinny at Minibull Designs. I think I like the idea of some sort of wipping twine for the top half, as I think it will be away from the flame if I fireproof it nearer the bottom somehow. Kelvar twine might be more fire resistant. I will follow the various instructions for Henikien Pots as to how this is done. For the bottom half after heating and while carrying I think I will fit a simple beer cozy type of deal into my bottle carriers. I intend to carry two in front, but only one full normally. Some sections like past Martin Head require two, but water stops are pretty close together in the footpath. I am still working out what my daughter will carry but more on that in another thread later.

JERMM
2009-07-11, 15:49
for drinking from the HKC I have found it to be OK just as is - the metal is thin enough that there is not enough heat to burn your lips so long as your sips are short

hahahaha! HOI, I read your post wrong, I read it as...is not enough heat to burn your lips so long as your lips are short

Pappyhighlife
2009-07-13, 16:38
Hey Tinny didn't know you were here, off topic I just want to thank you for that spaghetti recipe last month. The soup powder and McCormicks was perfect. Cooked up a batch at Table-rock mountain. You were the talk of the meal. Thanks....

Rosaleen
2012-10-02, 20:32
Opening up an old thread...

I'm playing with a Heineken cooking pot system. Here is where being a pack rat is helpful, as I have a few Heineken cans, and a few plastic lids from the no-longer-produced yogurt containers that actually seal the cans when used over silicone wrist bands. Another throwback that I still have around, SGT Rock's TiPod works well as a support, as does the Ion Stove. A sleeve made from Reflectix is my pot cozy and easily slips over my Gatorade bottle when I want to preserve its thermal state. (Who doesn't love a hot water bottle at one's feet on a cold, wet night?) I daubed on some hi temp RTV sealant (from auto section of WalMart, etc.) to make grab-pads. The set up fits into a soda bottle with the top cut off which besides protecting the cooking set up is my water-dipper and wash basin.

So, my question to the gang is whether or not anyone has tried or read about a safe way to flatten the can's bottom. It is OK as it is, but I've seen some other beer can pots with flat bottoms on the market and would like to try this.

Rosaleen

sheepdog
2012-10-02, 20:37
I've always preferred a nice round bottom.

Hog On Ice
2012-10-02, 21:36
never thought about a flat bottom can myself - I used a short cylinder of hardware cloth as a pot support - it was very stable and self centering when it was sized to fit just inside the recessed area in the bottom of the can - the burner I used was a tea light candle tin - worked well with the Heiny pot - for colder times I used an extended tea light candle tin that Skids gave me so as to have extra burn time

Rosaleen
2012-10-03, 10:11
Thanks, HOI-

I used the hardware cloth/tea light stove for years myself, but like the TiPod and Ion stove better.

The extended tea light tin sounds intriguing, though...

JewDuh
2013-01-20, 19:09
Rosaleen, I've been playing around with flattening the bottoms of 24(ish) oz beer cans. disclaimer, I've only had limited, but not total success

I didn't like any of the systems that I saw available where a secondary flat bottom was crimped onto the can in place of the original can bottom. So I tried just smashing the bottoms of the cans as they were. I met with the standard terrible results. Then 1 night I literally had a dream that inspired me. In the dream I had a Heini can that froze overnight, & forced the concave bottom to become convex, which was quite problematic bc it was now round and always tipped over. So in the dream I used a rock & stick to flatten the convex can bottom, and since it was a dream it worked perfectly.

Real life has proven a bit less simple. Apparently cans are stronger than they used to be so they don't round out when frozen (Unlike when I was a kid, & I wanted cold soda faster so I accidentally froze a number of cans over the years. back then they almost always convexed the bottom before exploding the top). Since freezing the cans didn't round out the bottom I decided to employ other means. I tried methods that left the factory rim intact, but I didn't have any luck. What worked best for me was cutting off the top of the can and press a croquet ball on the inside and a PVC adapter on the other end to get the generally rounded shape I was looking for. Then I worked on trying to flatten the bottom. The process that worked best for me was pressing a flat bottomed cylinder with a radius of .5" to .75" into the center of the can bottom, then repeating with another cylinder about .25" greater in diameter, and continuing out. (I started with a dowel rod, then moved on to a stack of poker chips, then some large washers). I eventually ran out of object to fit the next size requirement so I ended up with a can with a 2/3 flat bottom (& the rest was a nice round taper). I got impatient & decided to just smash at it with a dowel rod & ruined my best attempt. If I had a machine shop I would probably design a dye that would just ripple the bottom, but I don't so I've got dowel rods & croquet balls.

My plan for this next spring was to save my precious few Heini cans for the time being (They will stay in emergency kits) and I was going to use a black Molson can, which is the same as the fosters' can, except it's black (Can't hurt to try) I was going to use the Tuna fish can" modification, but I was going to use a large cat food can which has the same inside diameter but it is aluminum and because I can use the "Can savers" in the same manner you were going to use the yogurt toppers (They are sold in the pet food isle of most all the stores near me). In this system I can make the can any volume I like. I can even tailor the whole system to work with a specific container.

If you try any of these methods, let me know how it turns out for you. If you have more luck than I do, I'd love to know. Also, since you may ask: no, I didn't take any pictures. so I don't have any to share. Sorry.

Thanks,
Judah

JewDuh
2013-01-20, 19:27
Oh, Rosaleen, another quick thought

Writing my longer response made me think of a much simpler solution that may fit your needs better than mine. If you don't mind cutting off the base of your Heini can and putting another base on; there may be a simple solution.

You are probably familiar with the larger aluminum cat food cans that I mentioned above. Near the bottom of a heini can the diameter tapers to virtually the same diameter as one of those cat food cans. so:

1) mark a line & cut off the bottom of the heini can
2) mark a line & cut off the top of the catfood can
3) expand the catfood can like you were making an alcohol stove
4) Apply a high temp food grade epoxy to the bottom of the Heini can
5) Press the 2 together & pray it works!
6) optional (but I would) apply a shit ton of JB Weld to the outside of the seam

The good things about this design is that you should be able to get a fair amount of overlap to mitigate some of the inherent weaknesses of gluing 2 pieces of metal together and applying heat to them. And hopefully you can apply the glue in such a way as to avoid much contact with your food. (With enough overlap it may even work without epoxy, but that's risky)

Skidsteer
2013-01-20, 21:48
The best way to get a flat bottom on a Heineken or Foster's can is to use it upside down.

Don't pull the tab. Knock a hole in the bottom to drink the beer and then cut it off and fashion a lid.

Be forewarned, it does not increase effeciency at all.

Hog On Ice
2013-01-20, 22:05
and you lose the advantage of a very stable pot support system with the cylinder of hardware cloth that just fits inside the bottom depresssion

Rosaleen
2013-01-20, 22:08
Ths is running in the direction of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Skidsteer
2013-01-20, 22:10
'xactly.

Rosaleen
2013-01-20, 22:11
Thanks, Jewduh-

I'm not going to cut my Heineken cans. If they were replaceable, MAYBE, but we know the ones I have are worth gold to an elite group. I might try flattening the bottom of a different brand. Heating the can bottom first might help. For now, I'm leaving things as they are. Better safe than sorry, etc.

Thanks, again.

Rosaleen

JewDuh
2013-01-21, 02:50
Yeah Rosaleen, we seem to see eye to eye on the matter. I'm not chopping up a heini can either. Do be careful with heating the bottoms of the cans. If you mean boiling water in the thing so that it'll work just a hint better... you may be OK... but don't heat it dry to the point where you scorch that inside lining. Your food will forever bear the taste and carcinogens.

As for a reason for all this effort. I do like the self indexing shape, but I don't just boil water. Even when I cook my simplest meals I normally toss some hamburger gravel in the water as it heats so it will rehydrate more thoroughly. The deep grooves of the can bottom hold pieces of the food and are very difficult to clean. my system should work well enough. Just need to find the time.

On a related note you may want to try and find the 10 oz vienna sausage cans. very interesting.

Rosaleen
2013-01-21, 09:58
JewDuh-

Thanks for the admonition about the can lining. Most of my cooking is the heat-water-and-dump variety. I have all sorts of cooking gadgets, including an Excalibur dehydrator, and plenty of hot water for cleaning at home. Plus, I've been cooking for at least 50 years. Put the two together and the result is when I'm out at play, I want to keep it simple.

That said, it is hard to beat some hot soup (thinking salmon chowder) after hiking for hours in a cold rain. Some dehydrated meat and veggies in bouillon might work, but a real chowder, mmm. To see if I could, I have also cooked a whole package of Lipton/Knorr Noodles plus tuna and green beans in a beer can. Yes, cleaning up was a bit of a pain. No doubt, you've seen those green scrubber pads: 3M makes some. I usually cary a small piece of one that I can get into the corners of a straight-sided beer can with my spoon or a sitck. A Heiniken probably would be more tricky. I will have to check that out.

The 10 oz Vienna sausage cans? Could you be thinking of 12 oz ones? Those have been my go-to pots for over 10 years. Goya produces 12 oz sausages. More recently, I've seen a similar can, with maybe a bit thinner wall, in Big Lots and Family Dollar, filled with pasta and maybe sausages. I think the brand was Armour, but I'm not certain. Finding them will be hit-and-miss. Anyway, these cans will fit over the top of a Heineken can, should you want a second pot or a pot+coffee cup. I can see myself eating oatmeal from the small pot while sipping coffee from the larger one. It would be easier to eat oatmeal from the smaller can, I would guess. Coffee and oatmeal, for me, are things I'd have if I had a day to lounge around camp. More likely, I'll have a caffeinated cold drink, caffeinated gum, or eat some coffee beans (Preferably chocolate-covered or in a fruit/nut/chocolate mix-try craisins, dark chocolate, and coffee for a start.) and a meal bar if I want to get on the trail.

As always-YMMV!

JewDuh
2013-01-21, 17:19
Rosaleen,

I was referring to Armour Vienna Sausage, Vienna Bites: http://www.armour-star.com/prod_vienna.asp (it's the top 2. do your health a favor and toss the meat)

I have found them at Giant Eagle for too much, and dollar stores for a fair price. They are an awesome can for what they are, but I really want a pot that holds at least 12 oz (that cup and a half of water really increases my cooking options) They are the same diameter as the Fosters' can and have a nice flat bottom and a couple of slight ridges on the sides for stability (but nothing so big it would catch food). Zelph was adding a couple of extra ridges and charging an arm and a leg for 1 (I was foolish enough to buy into that game before I discovered his source) I remember him pointing out in some youtube vids that these cans were lighter than a Fosters can of the same volume. (I'm away from my gram scale at the moment, but I think they were 11 grams vs 13). The bottom is definitely thinner than the somewhat flattened out Fosters can I made and I think that is where the weight savings is (It suggests that it will also boil water faster. haven't really tested it). Like several other food cans it uses a different liner that is thin and plain white. I have more faith in it's health effects than the beer can liner.

I have not seen this 12 oz goya can you mentioned. Tell me about it; is it aluminum or steel? I may just have to order one online (got a link?)

Thanks,
Judah

Skidsteer
2013-01-21, 18:00
A 20 ounce vienna sausage can would be about perfect for LD backpacking.

Rosaleen
2013-01-21, 19:18
Oh, yeah, this is an aluminum can (Vienna sausages.) I literally walked the aisles of more than one grocery store years ago until I found it. I would not bother with a steel can. Goya is a brand often found in Latin/Spanish food sections of larger grocery stores. I also agree with the assessment of tossing the sausages. Yuck! They are comparable to water-logged, fatty hot dogs, which I also dislike. I've hiked 100 mile sections with just a 12 oz Vienna sausage can for my cooking pot/cup. Paired with either a SGT Rock TiPod stand (or hardware cloth stand), a cut down cat food can lid, and solid fuel tabs, it is hard to go simpler or lighter. I think I sent a set up like this to SGT Rock during one of his desert deployments. He may have kept it for his fanny pack, stored in his car. I'm not finding this particular can on line. Call aroundyour local grocery stores to find out which ones stock Goya products, then check into the larger can. Mine holds 1.5 cups of water, when filled to the rim. Rather than spill hot water, I usually don't fill it all of the way. It looks as if you are in Ohio. How far from Dayton? I drive out at least twice per year to see my mother. Hubby has an archery tournament in Cleveland in July. I can bring you a can (and arrow cut offs, if you need some for toggles) if you don't find one before that.

john pickett
2013-01-22, 10:56
Jewduh,
I've seen Goya products at Walmart.
Don't know about other stores.

JewDuh
2013-01-24, 01:54
I'm sorry to report that my local & internet searches are coming up blank. I have found Goya beans & other products locally, but no vienna sausages. My internet searches find a 9.25 oz (by weight) can that doesn't look like it would have the 12 oz of volume: http://www.navarro.com/goya-vienna-sausages-9-25oz.html.

All this searching did make me think of an old question I had. Has anyone tried to Get the heini keg effect of of other cans/pots? I imagine the is some way to whip up a dye that would roll a band out to that keg shape