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lucky luke
2005-09-03, 17:04
high all,

i am out in the mtns a lot in winter. i always use a tent fly that goes down all the way to the floor, or i even carry the comletete tent. beeing out of the wind enables me to wash myself, it heats up nicely while the tea-water is boiling,and i can lie down and cook while beeing in the sleeping bag. nice and cozy. i can rest and easily turn the stove on later. right from the sleeping bag.

if i take the tarp along i am ok lying in the sleeping bag, but the wind never stops.

beeing in a well insulated hammock will be surely nice at night. but what for cooking? under the tarp...? what do you guys do when you get to camp early? winternights are long. do you spend them in the hammock? under it? or do you hike at night, set up hammock, cook, eat, get inside, sleep, get up cook brrr.... -15, wind, and you are standing there in frozen boots cooking breakfast?

greets
lucky luke

JAK
2005-09-03, 18:32
high all,

i am out in the mtns a lot in winter. i always use a tent fly that goes down all the way to the floor, or i even carry the comletete tent. beeing out of the wind enables me to wash myself, it heats up nicely while the tea-water is boiling,and i can lie down and cook while beeing in the sleeping bag. nice and cozy. i can rest and easily turn the stove on later. right from the sleeping bag.

if i take the tarp along i am ok lying in the sleeping bag, but the wind never stops.

beeing in a well insulated hammock will be surely nice at night. but what for cooking? under the tarp...? what do you guys do when you get to camp early? winternights are long. do you spend them in the hammock? under it? or do you hike at night, set up hammock, cook, eat, get inside, sleep, get up cook brrr.... -15, wind, and you are standing there in frozen boots cooking breakfast?

greets
lucky lukeTarpist. I like that.

I have used both tarp and tent in winter here. Mind you, I am in wet coastal conditions, not more exposed but drier alpine conditions. Getting out of the wind for a meal, or even just to catch your breath and get a little organized and think is extremely important in winter, and of course the colder and windier it gets the more important, especially with blowing or falling snow or freezing rain. Finding shelter even just for a noon meal is very important on a long trudge. Once you are sleeping as you say it doesn't make so much difference, but with 16 hours of night you have to be set up to either read a book or go for a midnight ski. Drying socks can pass the time also. There can be a trade off between ventilation and warmth, but its easier to increase ventilation than to reduce it.

Still, when I tarp it in winter now it is with a very small poncho tarp and a very bulletproof bivy sack (CF Gortex) and 2 full sized blue foam pads (72"x28"x3/8").With this setup it is easy to set up shelter fast and to take advantage of existing terrain. I will grab shelter someplace small, like under a thicket of small spruce trees in the lee of a rock of in a snow drift or some place like that. Like when I was a kid. If there is deep snow I will take advantage of it. Usually here I am just kicking it or stomping it out of the way. The wide pad 28" is very important in winter. I don't think I would benefit much from a larger tarp. I think in more exposed terrain I would jump up all the way to a small single walled tent. Setup time is the main consideration in my opinion.

Time becomes increasingly important as the temperature drops I think. Weight is also more important in winter, but time becomes truly important. In winter I think as much of your weight as possible needs to be food and insulation, but it is worth it to have the shelter you are most confident in for the terrain and conditions you are dealing with. This doesn't mean big. My daughter has a tent that is just big enough for me to eat in but not to stretch out in. I think it would be a good winter tent. It's like a single walled 2 poled square dome 4'x4'x3.5' or something like that. I could still use my bivy to stretch out if I needed to. Haven't tried it yet but I think I will this year.

My dome tent tent is too heavy at 8 pounds. Sure its comfy. I have pulled the fly down tight and leave the door wide open and sleep at the opposite end like a cave in freezing fog conditions where it starts above 32F and drops down to 10F and squeezes all the moisture out of the air. I might still take it if I want to haul a sled just for the heck of it. You really want to focus on being able to consume lots of hot liquids and keep your socks and boots from freezing solid. The shelter needs to serve that role even more so than allowing you to sleep comfortably. For this I think there are many solutions for 4 pounds. If you wear a 3 pound wool sweater and never take it off it is easier to make whatever shelter you bring work for you.

Just my 2 cents. ($CDN)

scarecrow
2005-09-03, 18:36
When I sleep out in my hutchie (DPCU camo tarp) I make a kite setup. Basically, you tie the central tie down point to a tree, about 50cm up the trunk, stretch the opposite end right out to the ground, and peg it at both corners. Near the top where the central tie down point is, you'll have two flaps of tarp hanging loose. Again, you just peg these out, making two vestibules. Not only can I get all my battle order gear in there, if the situation dictates, I can fit another person in there.

Now all you have to do is get your thick-arse Therm-a-rest in there and sleep the night out - very little wind gets in and the construction is extremely roomy. I've never had a cold night in one.

Just my two cents...

Cheers,

JAK
2005-09-03, 19:07
I guess I should have described how I pitch my 4'x8' poncho tarp in winter. You wouldn't think there are a not lot of options, but with a heavy bivy there are many and they all work. Depends mostly on the ditch or drift or bush or log or whatever you are adapting to, and the weather of course. I have had most success with a simple lean-to on the side, a simple lean-to on end, A 4'x4'x4' pup tent, maybe lower on one end, or any of these under a bush, or over a bush or branch, or whatever. I haven't done a snow trench as such, though that idea has worked its way in to setups where there was enough snow. In spring,summer,fall I get by with 2 pegs and 2 pieces of chord, but in winter I bring 2 pegs, 6 nails, and lots more chord cause I never know what I might end up doing. I haven't had to do serious bushcraft, but a lot of the ideas are the same. A small hatchet is handy mostly because it hard to find or dig out a rock in winter and I would feel silly with a hammer. A small tarp and a bulletproof bivy is lots of fun, and never the same way twice, which is what winter camping is all about. Even the same woods look different each and every day.

dropkick
2005-09-03, 19:33
I use a tarp and a bivy. The tarp is used mainly as a rain/snow/hail/wind break, in many different configurations:
- A vee shape with me lying on one side of the vee and the other side above me. I often use this during spring/fall when I'm worried about a small shower (my tarp is not big enough in this setup to cover both my gear and myself real well in a hard rain, and I like to keep my bivy somewhat dry for packing).
- An upright vee shape around 3 trees with me on the ground in the middle of the vee and a fire area just outside it (blocks wind and bounces heat from fire back onto sleep area)
- A low tent shape, I tie one corner low on a tree or hold it up with a hiking pole and stake the other corners directly to the ground, then lie diagonally under the tarp. I use this set up most often, as it gives me the most room (except head) and protection for both myself and gear in bad weather.
- A slanted roof, sometimes with the bottom edge on the ground.

As far as cleaning myself: I like to give myself a sponge bath out in the cold, dry quickly, slip back into my bag, and then dress myself inside the bag.
It wakes me up and makes me feel more alive - I also believe that it makes me stay warmer and more comfortable during the rest of the day.
I usually cook after doing this.

Seeker
2005-09-03, 20:59
beeing in a well insulated hammock will be surely nice at night. but what for cooking? under the tarp...? what do you guys do when you get to camp early? winternights are long. do you spend them in the hammock? under it? or do you hike at night, set up hammock, cook, eat, get inside, sleep, get up cook brrr.... -15, wind, and you are standing there in frozen boots cooking breakfast?

greets
lucky luke


when the temperature falls to, say, whatever it is on December 1st, i go inside, shut the door, turn up the heat, and come out again in, oh, 4 months or so... seriously though, i don't do winter camping anymore... i live in LA because i like the heat. well, really, i live here because i got a job here, but i moved south in the first place for the heat...

that aside, i grew up in upstate new york, outside syracuse... my scoutmaster was my uncle/godfather, and we camped out, rain or shine, on a given weekend (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, whatever, i don't remember) every month of the year. i used to spend quite a lot of time outdoors in the snow, digging tunnels and such, too... the warmest i've ever been while winter camping was under a huge snowdrift. we'd find a bank of windblown snow, dig down to ground level, go in a few feet, then up a couple feet, then start leveling off a platform for however many of us there were per cave... usually about 4-5 shared a shelter this way. headroom was just enough to sit up in, maybe 3.5-4'... put down a plastic tarp and our sleeping pads and slept fine... with all that body heat and a candle or two, we got the interior up to about 50* or so... outside temp didn't seem to matter much. took a staff and poked a hole or three up through the roof to make vents, so we didn't suffocate. if i were to camp in the winter again, i'd probably try to burrow into a snow cave every night.

coldest i've ever been was in the army, stationed at fort drum in jan 1992. lived outside for two weeks of the most insane weather i've ever experienced... daytime highs never broke minus 15*, and the nighttime lows were in the minus 35-40* range. we just had tents. that's it. no heaters except in the HQ tent. day shift double bagged with the night shift's sleeping bags and foam pads, and vice versa... i have no idea how we made it... after the second day without sleep (you could fall into an exhausted sleep for about 45 minutes to an hour, but then woke up from shaking so hard), it all went sort of fuzzy... sure as heck, two days before we came in, the weather broke and it went up into the single digits... what a heatwave!

so, that's my 'cold' story, and why i moved south.

jimtanker
2005-09-03, 21:50
I too use a poncho/tarp and a bivy.
My poncho is the Campmor 5X8 sil-nylon extended poncho. (8.7Oz.)
My bivy is the army issue type. (35Oz.)

Sgt Rock's tarp page. (http://hikinghq.net/gear/tarp.html)

I use the flying diamond shape mostly. Keep it nice and low and stand your pack up at the back and you have plenty of room. Might try the trapezoid one of these days too.

For the summer I carry a nice size piece of bug netting and drape that over the opening or over my head when sleeping.

JAK
2005-09-03, 23:33
what do you guys do when you get to camp early? winternights are long. do you spend them in the hammock? under it? or do you hike at night, set up hammock, cook, eat, get inside, sleep, get up cook brrr.... -15, wind, and you are standing there in frozen boots cooking breakfast?-15C = 5F and wind you say.
brrr is right. Those mornings are interesting. First my eyes snap open to the predawn light and I judge the temperature and humidity with the ice on my eyelashes and nose hairs. The morning before it was rain turning to snow. Now, even the air in frozen. It's the third morning out and my hair hurts. I stare at the frozen bag of pee not too far away and know I have some time before my bladder explodes from my honey cedar tea last night. I check the temperature. Then I check the time. I stare at my Kelly Kettle. Great for boiling water. No good for melting snow. Hopefully I have water, socks, boots in the bag at my feet and not frozen somewhere else. Feel around with my feet. Reach down and pull up what's there. Creeks probably frozen. Grab my pillow bag and look at what's dry in that. I have on my fluffy acrylic socks for sleeping, a set of clammy 100wt fleece, light fleece hat and gloves, and my heavy Alpaca Wool Sweater inside my 30F Synthetic Bag. I'm not real cold, but I'm thinking about it. I assess what needs to be done and what order it needs to be done in. Starting to shiver and yawn awake and bladder's starting to set priorities. Wind blowing snow around.

Phase 1:
Crawl out of bag onto top of bivy change acrylic sleep socks to thin poly liners and pull on leather boots from sleeping bag put on wool hat grab hatchet dash to creek kick away some crusty snow. Chop. Chop. Chop. Hmmm. Pee off to the side while thinking. Chop. Chop. Chop. Little bit of water sneaking up but ice is surprisingly thick. Dash back to tent grabbing some more bark and spruce sticks on the way strip naked except for hat and liner sock dive into sleeping bag while pulling just the wool sweater back on. I will dress as I catch my breath and cool down, but the sleeping bag feels warmer.

I plan rest of morning while making breakfast with Kelly Kettle and last litre of water. Should be a good day for a long slow trudge.

bird dog
2005-09-04, 06:20
Your so cold that your hair hurts?????? I, like Seeker do have a cold story, but mine is from South Korea. I wont bore you with the details (I only had a body bag, a poncho liner, and a Private with me to share body warmth -- I would have chose death rather than spooning with the Private), but I cannot honestly say that I have been so cold I remember my hair hurting (my teeth did, but not the hair -- maybe because I wore a very high high and tight and had hardly no hair). Doesnt sound like a whole lot of fun. Im with Seeker.....I like the south.....I love the south.....I do most of my backpacking in the spring, summer and fall so that I can avoid the frozen Aquanet (if I wore it) and the painful hair. The bugs are no fun (especially in Seeker's neck of the woods), but you win some and you lose some.

Just Jeff
2005-09-04, 14:52
I do most of my backpacking in the spring, summer and fall

I used to be the same way. Now that I've challenged myself to find ways to stay warm in a hammock, I think I'm changing my attitude. I don't have lots of experience in winter hiking (a few trips where I woke up with ice on my bag), but I've been frustrated a bit by the military sending me to such nice places...Destin, Charleston, Monterey. Ironic, isn't it? I'm in prime location and I'm frustrated that I can't sleep outside in the cold! Well, not frustrated enough to put in for North Dakota, actually...but you get the idea.

Soon I'll be going to Colorado, though...can't wait to test my cold weather ideas in the Rockies at 10,000'!

There's one place in particular in Colorado that I can't wait to revisit. You walk up the side of a peak's face, but you have to go around back and climb over the top to get on the face. Just as you make the final turn around the backside, you crest a false peak and walk right into a field of Aspens. Not really an Aspen valley...just a field where the Aspens took over, and you can't see any of them until you make that turn and walk into the valley. Everything changes...light, smells, sounds...it's like changing worlds in the span of 10 steps. I think it's about 11,000' (the peak is 12,500').

JAK
2005-09-04, 16:06
My last post was meant to be a more of an exercise in creative writing than anything else. I was trying to capture the fun of winter camping in the woods around here. It doesn't get too cold on the coast. Just cold enough to be challenging but still fun. That's what I was going for anyway. :)

The hair hurting thing is more from a dry scalp from being outside in dry air for a few days then from the cold itself. We had short hair in basic training, but not as short as Americans I don't think. So when you moved your hair around under your wool touk your hair hurts. I have it longer now, but I still get the hurting hair if I go out 3 days after being stuck inside and showering every day. I think if a person was outside more their scalp might adapt. Not sure. I would like to try the hammock thing this fall maybe. New challenge.

Couple of thoughts about winter camping.
1. Good idea to bring a thermometer. It allows you to compare one experience to the next and also get a more objective assessment of the current situation you are in.
2. If you go out for 3 days or more it is better to prepare based on climate extremes for that month rather than weather forecasts. Once the woods have dried out to 25F the temperature can sort of free fall and -40F is a whole different game than 0F.
3. If it is getting colder and weather indications are to expect a very cold night I think you should prepare for it by conserving your energy during the day by slowing down to a trudge and maybe finding and making good shelter a bit earlier than usual.

Seeker
2005-09-04, 21:33
I wont bore you with the details.

so, what are you saying bird dog? my story was boring? is that it? :biggrin: LOL

dropkick
2005-09-05, 02:36
The only state I've lived in for any period of time other than Montana was Georgia. I was there for 2 years in the army (Ft. Gordon) and years later as a civilian I took a job that sent me out of state, and they put me to Athens for a year and then Atlanta for 2 more.

I hate heat and humidity. I love the cold.
I can always put on more clothes, I can't always take more off.



P.S. JAK - from personal experience - dry your head better (with a towel not a blow dryer) when you get out of the shower. If this doesn't solve your dry scalp it's either an allergy (wool cap?), bad rinsing (soap residue) or you have a fungus (many people do and don't know they do).
P.P.S. If you don't want to use Head and Shoulders or another dandruff shampoo take some vinegar to the shower with you. After you shampoo put some vinegar in your hair, wait a minute and rise again - even if you don't have a dandruff this is very good for your scalp, hair, and dry skin (restores ph balance). I do it all the time.

Just Jeff
2005-09-05, 02:47
If I sleep in a watch cap, my hair always hurts when I wake up. I think it's from the hat holding my hair so tightly in the same position all night, then finally my hair gets to move and the follicles are still stiff.

bird dog
2005-09-05, 05:03
so, what are you saying bird dog? my story was boring? is that it? :biggrin: LOL


No, no, no. Made me think of an old Army buddy who was a member of the fifty below club in Alaska. He said it was so cold there that it made his hair hurt! Said he once saw a guy have his hand freeze to a tent pole like that kids tongue did in the movie a Christmas Story. Come to think of it, he never finished the story. I wonder if they pried the guy loose or made him wait until Spring when he thawed out?

Seeker
2005-09-05, 19:45
No, no, no. Made me think of an old Army buddy who was a member of the fifty below club in Alaska. He said it was so cold there that it made his hair hurt! Said he once saw a guy have his hand freeze to a tent pole like that kids tongue did in the movie a Christmas Story. Come to think of it, he never finished the story. I wonder if they pried the guy loose or made him wait until Spring when he thawed out?

i knew you were kidding...

had that happen when i was about 16... dad and i were shoveling the driveway early one morning when it had been -40 that night... i had on this old pair of wool gloves, and there was a hole where the thumb met the body of the glove, at that fleshy part near the wrist... your hands tend to sweat a lot, and when i grabedd the metal-handled tool we were using to break ice on the sidewalk, my hand froze right to it... when i pulled loose, i left a bit of skin... that part of my hand peeled every winter when it got cold and dry... sort of a red, scaly patch... don't know if it still does, since i've not been up north for a winter in about 10 years... not really interested in finding out...

had a car door handle break off in the cold at FT Drum once too.

hey, what's this thread supposed to be about again? oh. winter tarping...

"Just say NO"...

BTW, it was only 75 out last night, and kind of dry... downright chilly... i was sleeping in the backyard, testing rock's plan for a poncho liner on the outside of a hammock... it was too cold on my back, so i came in... i think i'm going to have to stick to a blue foam pad on the inside... that seems to be warm enough.

JAK
2005-09-05, 23:11
One New Year Eve I had some relatives up from Brazil and it was really friggin cold like -40 and windy. The house we were at was by the cable ferry so we decided to take the ride across just for the heck of it and have our pictures taken with the ferry operators. It was darn cold but we were dressed right up of course. The beer froze in the bottle even before we got to the ferry. So that was the big highlight of the trip for my Brazilian relatives. We took them to a hockey game. We took them to the fancy Theatre. All they wanted was a frozen beer on a car ferry.

( For the curious. Air is pumped to keep the ice from freezing on the river. The bubbles bring up water from the bottom which never gets colder than 4C or 39F, which is the temperature at which water is most dense. )

Ferry in Summer:
http://www.tourismnewbrunswick.ca/en-CA/Products/Ferries/05FF4F08-43A1-41B7-A7A3-DAFC13988952.htm

Ferry in Winter:
http://www.woodstock2000.com/images/March%202004/P3200110.JPG
(somebody elses photo)

bird dog
2005-09-06, 04:58
You have certainly earned your place in the South Seeker! The pics of the ferry were neat, and very informative (the part about why the lake doesnt freeze).

Back to the original topic of the thread. I just recently purchased a HH and have only used it once in the backyard. I was suppose to be going to SW Virginia this week, but my partner backed out and some other things came up so Im going to have to postpone the trip until October.

I am still trying to figure out the best way to set the HH up, and so forth and havent really thought much about how to sleep in it during cold weather. I am sure that there is a thread around here somewhere about it and Rock probably has alot of good information.

It shouldnt be too cold in October but I need to figure out a cold weather system.

Seeker
2005-09-06, 12:55
well, the air temp might not be cold, but you definately need to figure out a way to insulate the bottom... i'm going back to my foam pad until i can afford a JRB Underquilt. i couldn't believe how cold my back was on a 75*night...

keep messing with the hammock until you can set it up in your sleep... takes awhile to get it 'just so'... i still have a tendancy to set the foot end too low, and end up sliding down that way at night... i'm 5-10, about 180lbs, and i set my ropes (assuming 5' of space from the trees at each end) about head high at the foot end, and shoulder high at the head end, about 10" different, and that works for me...

bird dog
2005-09-07, 00:21
Does that set up keep your feet higher than your head, or does the "sag" level it out? Also, how much sag do you get? I set mine up for the first time the other day about head high (Im same size as you), and my butt was about two inches off of the ground. The lines were taut, so I wrote it off as the lines stretching due to being new. I saw a video of this guy on another site showing the "how to" to set it up (theplacewithnoname.com) and his stayed alot higher than mine did and appeared to be tied at about the same heighth. He was a large man too.

Just Jeff
2005-09-07, 01:06
There's some stretch with a new hammock that will go away with use.

Make sure the supports you tied to aren't giving...small trees can bow, fence posts can sag, etc.

Also, make sure you cinch down the figure-8 know after each wrap...a few inches of give while the lashing tightens can make a big difference in how the hammock lays after you get in.

Seeker
2005-09-07, 02:30
Does that set up keep your feet higher than your head, or does the "sag" level it out? Also, how much sag do you get? I set mine up for the first time the other day about head high (Im same size as you), and my butt was about two inches off of the ground. The lines were taut, so I wrote it off as the lines stretching due to being new. I saw a video of this guy on another site showing the "how to" to set it up (theplacewithnoname.com) and his stayed alot higher than mine did and appeared to be tied at about the same height. He was a large man too.

just a little higher, enough to keep me from piling up on the bottom, and if i've been really walking a lot, reduces the swelling in my feet. sag depends, like jeff said, on how tight you make your figure eights... i usually make them, go sit in it to 'settle it in', then re-tighten the side that needs to be higher. again, echoing jeff, i think there was some 'stretch' in it when it was new that caused me to 'sag' a lot at first, but it's gone now.

the video was pretty good... that's shane steinkamp... good guy. apparantly his home got blown away... lives in metarie, just north of New Orleans... does a lot of work with the Backpack Gear Test site. if you've not read his philosophy pages, it's pretty interesting. love his ideas on Fire. a gift from the trees, in a nutshell.

anyway, good luck, keep practicing, and make sure you got something against the bottom to keep the heat in... (i still can't believe i got cold on a 75* night... blood's getting TOO thin living down here...)

Sgathak
2005-09-09, 13:03
When it gets cold, just start the woodburning stove!

http://kifaru.net/images/pstvtilt.jpg

Seeker
2005-09-09, 15:31
hey! that's MY setup! where'd you get the picture!?

(ok, so it's not mine... but it's what i'd do...)

dropkick
2005-09-09, 18:05
You guys don't know cold... It was so cold here one year that I lit a candle and the flame froze. After about 2 days I got tired of the constant light so I broke the flame off and threw it outdoors. One of the chickens ate it, and for 3 months it laid boiled eggs.

lucky luke
2005-10-01, 16:26
high all,

maybe i need to ask more precisely.

when youŽre out with a tarp or hammock in the very cold. how do you spend your days?
iŽll start.
before first light start breakfast, still lying in the sleepingbag. get dressed, pack up and leave with first light.

hike all day with a short break around noon. on a cold day snacks like tortilla + blueberry-cheese spread, get eaten while standing somewhere out of the wind.

near dark find a spot for a camp, get in the sleeping bag and start cooking. try to wash myself with the first warm water, then i cook tea, about 2 liters, then food. more tea, more food, .... :biggrin: in between think about them... :dancing2:

little thing like drying socks while boiling teawater happen on the side.

sleep early, in the morning boil tea, cook food. mostly ramen- up to 5 packs depending on the length of the hike. pack up....

i wonder how you get all those tasks done when beeing out with the hammock. after cooking teawater and food my feet would be frozen solid, and i hardly wear warm clothes for hiking, so i would need to dress first....

i like the idea of a no screen hammock a lot. if you can lie in it and cook :love:

ok, you tarpists and hammockers. what do you do with your no sleep-time in camp?

happy trails and warm feet
lucky luke

Just Jeff
2005-10-01, 19:19
I love being able to cook from my homemade Speer! I wish I could do it from my HH...

My day:

Wake up whenever, usually after sun-up. Pack up quickly, start walking with granola bars, power bars or fruit for breakfast. Munch like this all day until lunch.

Lunch is usually cold...tortillas with hard sausage and cheese, for example. Usually sometime between 11-1. Keep snacking until camp.

Sometimes I have dinner and keep hiking, but usually I hike until I'm ready for bed. Set up camp real quick. If it's cold, I'll pitch my hammock low so I can cook from it as I cool down, then eat in the hammock. The hardest part is deciding if I want to get up and hang my dirty dinner stuff.

After dinner, I just lay in my hammock and read or write in my journal until I fall asleep. Usually doesn't take long.

So basically, I don't have much no-sleep time in camp. If I stop early for some reason, I'll just wander around the river or cliffs or whatever and check out the sights.

On my Foothills Trail hike, I was happy to be hung low to the ground because I woke up cold in the middle of the night and had to boil water to sleep with...warmed me right up and I slept like a baby, without getting out of the hammock. Next morning, the water was still hot so I added some Jello powder and drank a hot Jello...excellent morning drink.

peter_pan
2005-10-01, 22:18
[QUOTE=Just Jeff]I love being able to cook from my homemade Speer! I wish I could do it from my HH...

Jeff,

Smee and I have frequently folded our HH and laid in the side with our No Snivellers to enjoy some extra morning rest before fully rising....this position is open access like a Speer so you can cook from it if you choose too...note that this trick does cause you to reposition but only takes a few seconds...also since you use a Nest under quilt you will still be insulated on the bottom...Point is that it is possible to reposition a HH to use it as an open top Speer.

Pan

Just Jeff
2005-10-02, 01:16
Yeah, but you still have to get out of the hammock and lose your heat while you reposition. I often use the lounger to cook and eat when I take the HH, though. I like them both!

chimpac
2009-04-24, 14:26
I camp with a tarp year round, always with a chimney/stove.

Many camping systems are perhaps designed by people who only camp in fair weather, summer time.

4 season tents are nice for 1 season after that you need a chimney/stove inside the shelter. Cooking and eating outside in the wind and cold with mitts on is not fun and people who claim that is the way to go probably don't do it very often. Cooking in the vestibule is not much better, and you risk your life taking a stove inside without a chimney.

The technology is available to put a chimney in any size tent, civilized people use chimneys to stay out of the smoke, cook and be warm.

I have made my own shelter outfits which I think are better than I can buy at any store right now. A tarp of the right size and material serves the purpose very well and can be a shade in summer or nailed down tight in windy cold.

The tapered chimney sections are held together with butt sleeve joints so the chimney can be the center pole under a tarp. There is no chimney I know of that is designed to bear the weight of a center pole.

The small stove (made from a coffee can) has a baffle to make the fire burn hot and slow, to make the cooking surface hot, to stop sparks burning the tarp outside (no spark arrestor needed)

The stove has a grate and draft control in the small end of a cone shaped bottom cover, to burn one or two pieces of wood like a little blast furnace, to also burn a full load of wood from the top down like a gassifier.

A shield/ ash catcher protects the ground so you can do a wood fire and leave no trace.

The smallest chimney/stove for 2 man size weighs only 2 lbs.

The stove can be set up to burn any fuel, but the fuel has to be carried and wood is generally available.
Only 12 ounces of wood is required for one hour burn.

I will share my ideas with anyone who wants to make some of their own stuff.

http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv297/chimpac/smallchimney002.jpg http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv297/chimpac/3.jpg
2 piece stove jack on the floor, chimney rolls up in sleep pad (20 inches), all fittings travel in stove. 8'x15' nylon tarp
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chimpac
2009-05-24, 12:47
http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv297/chimpac/5gallon029.jpg
fire reflects on ash pan/shield

This forum wins the prize for most viewer activity on stoves and tents.

I am planning a trip to Las Vegas by car using highway I-15, leaving june 1. I will stop on the way to meet anyone who wants to make

their own stove from a can (coffee, paint, 5 gallon). Make arrangements by P. message.

google chimpac for more info.


all the best, Arlen

http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv297/chimpac/tent002.jpg
24'x36' tarp, 21'x 16' inside.

Pappyhighlife
2009-05-26, 14:23
Ah-yes, I remember those balmy Korean nights when it was 20 below.

Land of the frozen chosen or was it the chosen frozen.

Ah, Good times-good friends. No wait the good times was Manila...sorry!
:beer: