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Hog On Ice
2005-10-22, 16:57
I generally use a chopped off Heineken 24 ounce keg can as a boil water pot and I am trying to come up with a good material for use in an insulated lid for the pot - something that can stand possible direct flame from the alcohol burner. The concept is something that looks like a pot cozy but is shorter and fits snugly over the top of the pot while on the burner. In particular I am thinking of a lid that extends about two inches down the side of the pot. The reason for the insulated lid is to get better preformance in winter temperatures.

I did a test case that at least showed the value of the idea in that I got a faster boil but the material I used, foil covered blue foam pad, was obviously the wrong choice after the test - partly melted and schorched. Using aluminum tape on the outside of the insulated lid to hold the foil was also a failure - the heat melted the adhesive and the tape came off.

Materials that I have thought about but not tried are:
1. reflectrix - my concern here is the direct exposure to flame may cause the edges to melt/burn
2. some other metal can for a shell with fiberglass insulation on the outside and covered inside and out with foil - this may work but I have seen fiberglass exposed to direct flame melt and clump together - not sure if the foil cover will be good enough protection for the fiberglass - not sure how to attach the foil since the aluminum tape fails in the exposure to flame
3. same as 2 but with a plastic shell of some sort - additional issue here is the possibility of the plastic shell deforming

Anyways the question is whether anyone has any ideas as to what material to use for this insulated lid for the beer can pot.

dropkick
2005-10-22, 23:06
For cheap and easy I would go with fiberglass insulation (or rockwool, if you can get it - withstands higher temps) between 2 layers of aluminum foil.
I wouldn't worry to much about the insulation melting as they use it between the layers in triple wall stove pipe (woodstove) and it doesn't have a problem.

-actually several layers of foil -with dead air space between the layers- would insulate fairly well too.

bird dog
2005-10-22, 23:57
How about one of those thick aluminum cookie sheets that they sell in grocery stores molded to fit as a lid? Not sure about an insulator, but maybe you could use tyvek cut small enough to avoid open flames. BD :confused:

oops56
2005-10-23, 01:46
Well new hear no time to tell all about me yet .But on the cup lid just take a ironing board cover cut a piece out put between alum. foil there that was not hard and is fire poof Now if you use two pot pie pans put iron board cloth in one fold sides in turn over pot put other one on fold it in the alum is thicker mite not burn up

JAK
2005-10-23, 17:33
I would have something float on top of the water, assuming you are boiling water.

dropkick
2005-10-23, 23:27
I'm with oops56, ironing board cover, and aluminum foil, easy and safe. (You could try Goodwill for the cover)

Tyvek isn't an insulator it's a vapor barrier.

incognito
2005-11-17, 22:33
(I generally use a chopped off Heineken 24 ounce keg can as a boil water pot and I am trying to come up with a good material for use in )


Use a kevlar glove, cut the fingers off(sew on sewing machine first, then cut fingers off) E-bay has them almost every day, small size for 1$ a pair. Resists high heat.

Mutinousdoug
2005-11-17, 22:58
How about 3-4 layers of oven pan alum pop riveted together? dead air trapped(more or less). Just throwing this out there. If you can trap steam between the layers you might cool the edges exposed to the flame enough to prevent melting/burning? 2-3 layers under an overhanging lip layer?
It might be a biatch to clean on extended trips...

Hog On Ice
2005-11-18, 08:18
what I ended up with that seems to be working for now is a plastic Campbell's microwave chili bowl (ex: http://www.chunky.com/images/products/bowl_roadhouse.jpg ) chopped down to about 2 inches high, padded with fiberglass pipe wrap insulation inside and out and with a single layer of "heavy duty" aluminum foil on the inside and outside of the resulting lid. Note no tape was used to attach the foil - the inside foil was formed on the bottom of the can and then pushed into the lid with the can and the outside foil was folded into the lid from the top of the lid. The size is such that it is a snug fit when on the can - enough so that I know when the water is starting to boil because the lid raises up a little to let the steam out. Ended up weighing about 1-2 ounces and it definately improves boil times / fuel efficiency. Side benefit of this is that the lid can also be used as a base for the can so as to make it easy to handle the pot for drinking tea from the pot.

incognito
2005-11-25, 09:14
Hog, what kind of alcohol stove are you using that is sending flames up to the top of your keg/pot?

Sounds like you got mega btu going up and around your pot. What is your boil time?

Hog On Ice
2005-11-25, 18:07
Currently I am using an open burner - an empty unmodified tea light candle tin - this actually gives me the best results usually keeping the flames below the upper edge of the windscreen but under mostly unknown conditions of wind, temp, small variations in windscreen shape and orientation of components I will still sometimes get flames up to the top of the pot. Early on in my HP experiments I used a Turbo V-8 - that burner had a much more pronounced issue with the flames going up the side of the pot.

Boil time is not much of a concern to me and varies considerably with environmental conditions - as a guess a typical time would be about 10 minutes for 1.75 cups. Note I use 1.75 cups of water for my typical meal - I have found that I don't need a full 2 cups of water.

The parameter I was most concerned with was fuel use - even here however its nothing to crow about - it typically takes about 16 to 20 ml of denatured alcohol to acheive the boil of the 1.75 cups of water. One nice thing about the burner I use is that after getting the boil I can blow out the flames and pour the remaining fuel back into the small bottle I use to fill the burner.

incognito
2005-11-25, 18:32
what do you use as a potstand and what is the distance from the rim of the candle tin to the bottom of your pot? I wanna try one.

Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained

oops56
2005-11-25, 20:38
:dancing2: Ok incognito i just got one of your stoves off e bay .I will try and cook a turkey with it on xmas he. he.Well just guessing[ 8 or 9 optimus] [4 111] [8 primus][5 or 6 seva] [6 or 7 530 ww11 stoves][borde burner][4 army volcano] [kelly kettle] [4 jiffy heat] [5 colemen pp] [ and lots of small alcohol i know i let some out plus their is 6 or 7 more on there way .Now its is suppose to warm up next week so i just mint do a good count [ 4 or 5 trangia sets] [P. S. does this help he. he. :biggrin:o for got [4 turm sport] :smile:

Hog On Ice
2005-11-26, 10:19
the pot stand is a cylinder of half inch hardware cloth 3 squares high (1.5 inches) sized so as to just fit inside the lip at the bottom of the can (approx 14 squares around) - by having the pot stand just fit inside the lip at the bottom of the can the pot is self centered on the stand and is very stable

the wind screen I use is the side walls to two 12 ounce soda cans crimped together on one side and notched together on the other - one row of holes is punched around the bottom of the windscreen - the size of the windscreen is such that there is between .25 and .5 inches from the windscreen and the side of the pot

in warm weather I use an aluminum foil bottom reflector, in colder weather I put a piece of closed cell foam under the foil to insulate the burner from the ground - the burner sits inside the pot support on the bottom reflector and it is approx. 1 inch from top edge of the tea light candle tin to the bottom of the pot

before I started using the insulated pot lid I would use a folded piece of foil for a lid.

incognito
2005-11-26, 15:06
Thanks Hog for the dimensions, I'm going to put them to work. I'm a tinkerer.

Thats a great design, I like it!!!!!!! :)