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tom mangan
2005-10-26, 10:41
So I'm out dayhiking the other day and I come across these two guys dressed in camos and military style packs & gear ... we're chatting and I asked 'em if they were active duty or reserves, and they said "no, we're just dressing like it."

I'm on w/the camos, I suppose, but they had actual miliary packs & canteens, which made me wonder: isn't military-issue camping gear fairly substandard compared to the stuff you can get at the store? (I seem to have heard tell of this in rec.backcountry, so I thought I'd ask the experts here).

jimtanker
2005-10-26, 11:41
Army gear is too heavy, too painfull, and too heavy.

I used to be like that but not anymore. I grew up. LOL.

I did use some Army gear last weekend though. The new Army winter PT outfit. In a light drizzle it kept me, mostly dry, and I was nice and toasty warm the whole time anyways. The jacket has armpit zips and weighs 23.5Oz. and the pants weigh 18.8Oz. And at (at least) half the price of any comparable store bought gear brand new, its my choice for sure.

Verlager
2005-10-26, 12:10
So I'm out dayhiking the other day and I come across these two guys dressed in camos and military style packs & gear ... we're chatting and I asked 'em if they were active duty or reserves, and they said "no, we're just dressing like it." ... It makes sense to wear military clothes while hiking in bad bush, out where Jesus lost his sandals, yes. Nothing wrong with quality, heavyweight clothing worn outdoors. I excuse myself if caught in the city while outfitted in carabiners and ropes or listening to a weather radio, or wearing shorts over long underwear by saying, "It's technical."

Last Sunday I met with a few friends for dinner at a restaurant, and two of them were dressed in exotic military garb, both foreign and domestic. To me, this just attracts too much attention in this feminized society. "Oh, look, he thinks he's Rambo! I bet he's a Nazi, too!" Who needs that?

Me? I just dress shabby, T-shirt, gym pants or shorts, and sneakers, wherever I go. I hold the door for women and older people whenever I can. I speak to the guys smoking outside the restaurant. I try to blend in and act like a nice guy. Can't blend in if I'm wearing a military costume, though, can I?

Jim Henderson
2005-10-26, 13:01
I have used my USGI canteen, cup, belt and canteen cover for almost 40 years now, jeez. Yes they are heavy but it is hard to argue about paying maybe $20 total and getting 40 years of service with no real signs of wearing out.

I also am a bit weird and like to collect old USGI canteens and covers. I have one 1918 canteen in very nice shape, and a few WWII era canteens. Who knows what action they may have seen.

I use them all the time and yes I do look a bit odd walking around with a belt full of USGI canteens, especially when I do "city" hikes, but what the heck, 99.9% of the people who see me, will never see me again. I don't wear my USMC combat knife in the city tho, that is a bit much.

I probably would be better off load wise with a camel back or nalgeen or... but where is the adventure in that?

I also have gotten excellent service out of some Swiss surplus wool pants. Excellent in snow. I was the "victim" in several snow rescue exercises and have had to lay in the snow, often in falling snow/sleet and am just fine. I once had about an inch of crust on my pants from laying in the snow for 3 hours, but I was fine. It was my fingers that were frozen in my "high tech" snow mittens.

I also like to occasionally haul my "lightweight" USGI stove out for trips, ooof. the USGI lantern is over the limit tho.

I like surplus stuff since it is usually very durable and cheap and has a personna. The cub scouts I take on trips are usually intrigued by the strange gear I carry around and my wife is bemused when I whip out my butterfly stove and make up a hot cup of java on the trail, some mumbling about a cookit that fits in my shirt pocket...

But it is not my first choice for serious backcountry work. Then I go with more modern gear, like my aluminum pot kit from the 70s and Otpimus 8R bought in 1968.

But I always have at least one USGI canteen, the first one I bought, and belt with me on any hike I do.

Jim Henderson

Sgathak
2005-10-26, 13:46
"Old Skool" military gear is heavy... piggishly so... but I wouldnt call it in anyway substandard. Its rugged and ment to survive any drama Joe can throw at it.

Newer stuff military (and militarized) gear is much lighter, and even more durable than many of its regular issue counterparts.

As for wearing camo around town, have you wandered into the mall recently? The GAP looks like a surplus store with all the camo prints.... Its toning down, but anytime theres a war on, military gear comes into fashion. I wouldnt run around in full BDUs, but pants or jacket or whatever mixed and matched with some civvie clothes, and you dont stand out, your fashionable.

dropkick
2005-10-26, 16:46
Like was said above military gear is very durable but also heavy.

I still have an aversion to wearing military clothing in public.
I was raised an army brat, and when I was young you could actually get in legal trouble for wearing military clothes in public, or at the very least get bawled out for it (there was even a possiblility that you might get beat up).
I still wore my Dads' old pants and shirts (with all patches torn off) as work clothing, but never a full outfit, and not in public areas.

Gear was different, I used a military pack/mess kit/canteen/etc. for years and still use pieces of it.

Icemanat95
2005-10-26, 18:35
When I was a kid I liked the military gear, but once I actually served, I respected it too much to wear it as a uniform anymore. The badges and such sewn onto it were honors of a certain place and time not to be abused under other circumstances. I have some military kit mixed into civilian gear such as a set of "y" suspenders attached to my civy fanny pack to distribute the load and up the amount of stuff I can carry comfortably with it., but for hiking overnight...it's strictly civvy.

Iceman
2005-10-27, 11:21
[QUOTE=Verlager]I rarely pass up an opportunity to reference my imaginary "detonators." [QUOTE=Verlager]


Not cool man. Some things are funny, this one is not. You never know who you are dealing with or how they are going to react. This may be the straw that breaks the proverbial back of some unsuspecting individual.

Your comment that you are aware that this isn't a great idea in some places needs to be expanded to all places.

And no, I am no prude, incapable of a funny joke or prank, this one just seems a bit out of line considering the day we live in. You may end up getting ATF digging thru your trash and listening in on your phone calls, and this is gonna cost me money. I would stop while you are still ahead...

Seeker
2005-10-27, 11:44
that's definately not funny... me not shaving and dressing down to go weigh my stuff in the post office to see what sort of funny looks i get is one thing... your adding a crank 'clue' to the intel picture in the war on terror is reckless, careless, expensive in both money and time (and possibly lives), and inexcuseable...

the only response should be "you're right guys... i'll quit doing it."

Verlager
2005-10-27, 23:49
The joke has been played, it's not funny the second time, it's more like annoying. Assume that USPS security observed this on camera and is now x-raying and examining all packages that I mail. So what? Maybe I had dinner with a USPS security man last Sunday and picked up the tab. Maybe I like going to the Post Office because they used to have my picture posted on a flyer. :fisheye:


Not cool man. Some things are funny, this one is not. You never know who you are dealing with or how they are going to react. This may be the straw that breaks the proverbial back of some unsuspecting individual. It's absurd to believe that a terrorist or mad bomber would tell everyone that he is missing critical parts of his explosive devices. Those types, I believe, prefer silence and secrecy.


And no, I am no prude, incapable of a funny joke or prank, this one just seems a bit out of line considering the day we live in. You may end up getting ATF digging thru your trash and listening in on your phone calls, and this is gonna cost me money. I would stop while you are still ahead... I apologize for the enormous personal financial cost you must endure to finance the ATF going through my credit card bills and tapping my phones. Take heart in the knowledge that there are not many like me.

And have you really considering the day we live in? What have you found?

Verlager
2005-10-28, 01:54
that's definately not funny... ... your adding a crank 'clue' to the intel picture in the war on terror is reckless, careless, expensive in both money and time (and possibly lives), and inexcuseable... the only response should be "you're right guys... i'll quit doing it." From what I read in the newspapers here in the USA, some of this war on terror is really being fought against innocent Americans. Sure, I've adapted, and I'm happy to be an American. But I have diminished expectations about the future of the USA. I think we're being used. It's too late to stop them. What looks like a crisis is often just the end of an illusion.

And why are the resources of the US being used against average citizens? Males (since the OJ Simpson trial) can be thrown out of their homes, with little or no recourse, with a single phone call to 911 from an angry wife or GF. They can be sued and arrested for any perceived slight to a privileged group, even illegal aliens. Our elections are a joke, politicians are bought and paid for, and our large cities are rife with the decay of drugs and crime. Our soldiers go to battle w/o adequate weapons, manpower, or protection. These are all problems that we could fix, but we won't.

Iceman
2005-10-28, 02:21
And have you really considering the day we live in? What have you found?

Verlager, go ahead and get all pissy about it. I guess I am the problem. Maybe everyone should take your lead and screw off in public--who cares about the cost.

I have considered the day we live in, thats why I spoke up. It's really easy to just accept others behavior, but I chose to do something about it.

What have I found? Look in the mirror, I have found you. Some angry individual, who could care less about what others think. Some dude, who doesn't appear to care about how 'what he does' impacts others. All for the sake of comedy? Come on, let's set a better example than that, huh?

Think first.

And go ahead and let me have it, I am a big boy, I promise not to cry.

KLeth
2005-10-28, 02:33
Some military equipment and clothing is quite cheap compared to brand versions of something familiar. E.g. a military raincoat can be made with PTFE but the brand version of the same is made with GoreTex (also PTFE but a TM).
Dressing up is an entirely different thing - When on our weekly daytrips we frequently encounter people dressed up for show. They are dresed in expensive products from expensive brands, their clothes are not dirty and doesn't show signs of wear. Typically they also dress poorly for the actual weather e.g. wearing a Canadian Goose parka when it's +15C, a FjällRäven polar parka when it's +10C or small leather shoes on a muddy trail. The funniest ones also drags walking poles after them. :elefant:
I guess that it's important to show off . . . . . Thinking that people might think you once were in the Sirius Sledge Patrol or were a mountaineer, Alpenjäger or something similar. :captain:

bird dog
2005-11-02, 20:35
As far as military uniforms go....Its disgraceful.

As far as the practical jokes go....Im sure that you could find something that is actually funny instead of something that can incite mass hysteria. Some states/law enforcement agencies REQUIRE their officers to carry a weapon while off duty and to take enforcement action whenever they observe something suspicious. I would keep this in mind.

Verlager
2005-11-02, 23:27
Some states/law enforcement agencies REQUIRE their officers to carry a weapon while off duty and to take enforcement action whenever they observe something suspicious. I would keep this in mind.Please don't follow in my footsteps if you are afraid of getting shot. I do something funny every day, and it's always something that a tight a** would grimace at. I get away with these things because I am who I am. I'm not an "expert" or any big deal, but I know what works, and when it works. And, of course, I'm not some flunky security guard.

Ever been told that you shouldn't get into a hammock because you might fall out and hurt yourself?
And you did it anyway, because you have special skills, huh? I did, too!

Anyone ever warn you against going into the woods because you might get lost or bit by a snake?
You nodded politely, thanked them for their concern, and yet you went hiking that same weekend, anyway, huh? I did, too!

Yesterday I ordered a sewing machine on the Internet. Person told me today that I shouldn't do that, because I risk identity theft. I took a chance. What can I say? Risk is relative, isn't it?

By the way, I would appreciate if posters here would avoid accusing me of threatening others with explosives, causing general panic, etc. You have no proof of this whatsoever, and it is slanderous.

Aegis
2005-11-03, 03:25
As a cop is Honolulu, I gotta say I hate getting those stupid 'suspicious package' calls - big waste of my time so maybe re-think the humor in that one because most of us would rather be out fighting crime or doughnuts.

As for men getting kicked out of their houses for a 911 call; I'm very guilty of that! Of course, I've only done it to guys who deserved it, say by maybe beating thier significant other in front of the kids. I know it may not be a popular law with the red neck wife beaters, but it's still a law and I will enforce it with zeal! Maybe OJ can move over here - I'd like to meet him.

Just my opinion after a long day. :hmpf:

Aegis
2005-11-03, 03:42
Well, I still like my poncho and liner and ya gotta love the M-65 (in olive drab) with the liner for when the temperature drops. I also wear my old LBE for day hikes and use my issued canteens a lot too! One is always loaded in my car and I keep a 2 quart one there too just in case Katrina comes this way and it's every cop for himself! I’m really considering using a mess kit too and I gotta say I keep a pair of jungle boots in my car as well with my 'utility uniform'.

Oh, I know there are lighter and more expensive things out there, but honestly, it's like chocolate - sometimes you just need comfort food. So why shouldn't I indulge myself with what I'm carrying while I'm indulging myself in hiking?

Two things that have changed; based on what I saw on this site I got a HH and love it! I also like the Bud light stoves! I’ve been experimenting with those and have made one that will boil two cups is 7 minutes and burn for nearly 3 minutes on a shot of alcohol; this works for me!

Again, just my grumpy opinions after a rough day.

P.S. I really like my old ruck - everything has it's place in there.

Sgathak
2005-11-03, 04:02
Verlager...

Any respect I may have had for you previously is completly and utterly gone.

Your "jokes" arnt funny.

But you probably already know that. Your posts are probably just flame bait.

Troll elsewhere.

Verlager
2005-11-03, 08:33
As for men getting kicked out of their houses for a 911 call; I'm very guilty of that! Of course, I've only done it to guys who deserved it, say by maybe beating thier significant other in front of the kids. And you don't think modern women are opportunistic enough to use these laws to unjustly accuse the men in their lives of an imagined assault?

This scenario is entirely in my head, of course. People know that the ghosts and ghouls who show up on Oct. 31 are just people dressed up in costumes. So no one is really scared. Similarly, no one is really scared when a guy who they know well and trust, wearing shorts, a t-shirt and flip flops, moronically announces that care should be taken in handling his fanny pack which may have "detonators" in them. People are, evidently, smarter than you give them credit for.

Every Halloween, children dress up in grotesque costumes, pretend to be ghosts or superheroes and visit the homes of old people extorting candy from them. Somehow, people know this and avoid getting scared and dying instantly of a heart attack. People are smart, huh?

Verlager
2005-11-03, 08:44
Verlager... Any respect I may have had for you previously is completly and utterly gone. I believe that you and the other security guards here have the highest respect for me and my kind. That's just common sense.


Your "jokes" arnt funny. Then why does everyone laugh?


But you probably already know that. Your posts are probably just flame bait. Troll elsewhere.Thanks for sharing!

My mistake is that I offered to share a situational sight gag in a text environment and it isn't working. When we see Moe of the Three Stooges slapping Curly Howard around, it's funny and we laugh. But when we read, "Moe slaps Curly", it isn't funny, it's sad, because maybe Moe is abusing Curly, which would make us cry.

Other than that, I'm not sure what the objection is! You're confusing reality with things done in jest.

Seeker
2005-11-03, 15:07
Verlager... Any respect I may have had for you previously is completly and utterly gone. Your "jokes" arnt funny. But you probably already know that. Your posts are probably just flame bait. Troll elsewhere.

just block him... nice feature.

Sgathak
2005-11-03, 15:22
Yup, did that last night.

Verlager
2005-11-03, 21:27
That does it. You two are on punishment, until further notice.

GregH
2005-11-04, 21:46
I wear a Blackhawk duty belt and double knife sheath along with a Maxpedition Rollypolly mini for my water bottle. I like the belt because it won't sag, ever, and the gear is bombproof. It takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
I've torn up a bunch of water bottle carriers on the trail but the Maxpedition is barely scratched. I've worn a lot of leather belts on the trail which eventually sagged but not the Blackhawk.

dropkick
2005-11-05, 01:54
I'm thinking that I need to take another look at military gear, as I don't think it's as heavy anymore as it was in my day.
Was looking on eBay for another poncho and it appears that the army is making silnylon ponchoes now.
Still want one of the old style o.d. green ponchos for normal use as they are tougher than heck and last forever, but for hiking maybe one of the new style....

Just Jeff
2005-11-05, 02:15
Every poncho I've been issued is thick and heavy compared to sil. And the web gear is still heavy. The Blackhawk stuff is a bit more functional and easier to use, like the heavy duty velcro instead of those damn alice clips, and the holster that mounts on the thigh instead of on the belt. But it's still heavier than a silnylon pack. Of course, it won't rip on a tree branch, either.

bird dog
2005-11-07, 04:58
just block him... nice feature.

PLEASE tell me how to do this

Seeker
2005-11-07, 07:47
go to the control panel. look for the buddy/ignore list. add the name of the blockee to the ignore list (i think it's the one on the right). hit update ignore list. the 'ignored' posts no longer appear.

Verlager
2005-11-08, 11:15
I have removed my joke post, because too many semi-literate, angry, sick people misinterpreted it as a form of bomb threat.


As far as the practical jokes go....Im sure that you could find something that is actually funny instead of something that can incite mass ysteria. This guy thinks I ran around like some crazy white trash redneck loser shouting, "Hey, everybody! I'm going to blow you all up!"

Of course I did nothing of the kind. I would be in jail if did that. It is illegal to threaten harm to anyone or group publicly or otherwise. I am not in jail. Nothing has happened to me, and nothing will happen to me. Most people are intelligent and know the difference between a bona fide threat and a joke.

Oh, one cool thing did happen. A few fascists here decided they didn't like my joke and reflexively censored me. np!

GregH
2005-11-10, 00:53
The Blackhawk stuff is a bit more functional and easier to use...But it's still heavier than a silnylon pack. Of course, it won't rip on a tree branch, either.

That's exactly why I use it. I switched to the Blackhawk Duty Belt because I couldn't find a no-sag belt to carry knives, water bottle, survival kit and I hate stuffing my pockets. The belt works great and never sags. The tradeoff is that it is stiff and heavy - but that's what I needed.

Of course, I'm not outfitted like a para-military camper for all of my gear. My bag is a Mountain Hardwear Phantom 45 with 800 fill-power down weighing 19 oz. and stuffs down to the size of a liter bottle. And my shelter is an HH Explorer. My clothing is all nylon and coolmax, cooking gear is titanium. I do need to switch out my old MSR Whisperlite for a homemade alcohol stove though.

Seeker
2005-11-10, 11:25
now you sound like a special forces guy... using whatever civilian gear works better than the 'issue' stuff!

if you don't want to give up your whisperlite, try MSR's simmerlite... it's a few ounces lighter and may work for you... they also make that smaller 11oz bottle (vs the 22oz one), but IMO it doesn't work as well, as you have to pump a lot more often to keep the pressure up...

GregH
2005-11-10, 21:48
...And let's face it, we all want to keep our pressure up! :biggrin:

Just Jeff
2005-11-10, 22:42
...And let's face it, we all want to keep our pressure up! :biggrin:

I hear pumping it throughout the process keeps the pressure where it needs to be to bring the heat. Ahem.

GregH
2005-11-11, 00:46
Testify, brother! :willy:

Seeker
2005-11-11, 11:22
man, you guys are just plain bad... reminds me of the post over on WB about 'if 3 inches hanging makes a difference', or something to that effect...

Just Jeff
2005-11-11, 11:53
Why, I have no idea what you're talking about, Seeker...I was talking about camping stove fuel bottles.

What were you...oh, that's just gross. You dirty minded pervert! :)

GregH
2005-11-11, 15:37
How could you take our innocent posts and turn them into something dirty? What kind of person are you?

Seeker
2005-11-11, 17:01
ok... i give up... i don't think i can win anything today... have a good one, all... and happy veteran's day... even you air force guys...