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Hollowdweller
2005-10-28, 18:11
This is Pixie. She is a kickass milker

Iceman
2005-10-28, 22:17
OK, I will bite...what gives? What's up with Pixie? :trytofly:

Seeker
2005-10-29, 19:14
duh! a milk goat! he's obviously proud of her...

damn, lookit the size of those things! my grandmother had a goat like that... a great milker, huge bag, easy to handle too... she loved her to death...

how much does she give a day?

Sgathak
2005-10-29, 20:21
Milk goarts are good... but pack goats are better ;)

Id like to get ahold of a nice Kiko goat, and maybe cross it into the more "traditional" pack goat strains.

dropkick
2005-10-30, 01:14
I've often wondered about using a goat as a pack animal while hiking. Was telling someone several years ago about making packs for my dog (so he could carry his own stuff), and they said I should get a wether instead. Said it was better than a dog all around.
Haven't had any hands on experience with goats yet, so I don't know how they would do as a pack animal/companion/alarm for the trail.
Anyone have stories to share?

Sgathak
2005-10-30, 01:30
Goats have a TON of trail value.... and if you dont mind walking slow, can make a wilderness hike extremely enjoyable.

Hard to beat a packweight of 0.0oz since Ol'Billy is carrying the load. And he doesnt need to carry any food, since he eats the local forage.

Seeker
2005-10-31, 11:10
what about llamas? someone out there, i think on this forum, but maybe at WB, hikes with a llama... seem to recall he was from montana/idaho/colorado... anyway, do they also eat browse? or are they grazers (bushes vs grass... and yes, there is a differnce)...

so how much weight could a goat or llama carry?

Sgathak
2005-10-31, 17:29
Im not a llama fan. For several reasons. Heres a couple below.

Advantages vs Disadvantages of Goats over Llamas
Advantages

* Goats can easily carry 20% - 30% of their body weight in saddles and gear (a 200 lbs. goat can readily carry 50 lbs.)
* Goats handle rougher terrain than llamas, goats can go anywhere you can go, even up very steep rocky slopes. Llamas cant.
* Goats don't need large quantities of feed, they can browse on the trail
* Goats are relatively easy to train and easily handled by people of all ages and abilities
* Goats will haul in a small trailer or a pickup with or without a canopy
* Goats will stay with the herd and not stray from the group
* Goats do not need to be tied up at night if properly bonded to humans
* Goats do not need to be lead, they follow naturally (though some places require they be lead)
* Goats are well suited to No Trace Camping practices (since they eat the same as deer, leave hoof prints nearly identical to deer, and their scat is very similar to deer)
* Less expensive to own and operate than other pack animals

Disadvantages

* Goats travel less distance per day than llamas
* Goats carry less weight than llamas (smaller size)
* As with any animal, a certain amount of daily care and attention is required to keep goats
* Initial start-up expenses may be quite high (but not as high as with llamas)
* Zoning regulations may limit your ability to keep goats in your backyard

Seeker
2005-10-31, 17:58
good info. thanks. any others? like what llamas eat, how much they can carry, why they need to be led, etc.?


on a side note, spurred by 'handled by people of all ages', if you've never seen little kids at a rodeo riding sheep and wrestling goats, you've missed a good time...

Sgathak
2005-10-31, 18:13
Llamas generally eat grasses and soft leaves. they can carry 75-100 pounds. They need a halter and a lead rope (goats can usually get by with just a dog collar if you need to lead them)

One consideration between goats amd llamas is that a VERY high quality, trained pack goat can cost less than a poor quality, untrained, llama. A Really fine llama can sell for as high as 10K. For that cost, you could get 2, 3, or even 4 Yak (which eat like goats, and pack $150lbs)

Seeker
2005-11-01, 11:17
wow... makes you wonder why people mess with llamas at all... thanks for the info...

wonder if there's any money to be made with a goat concession starting at mtn momma's and helping out hikers all the way to katahdin... hmm...

Pappyhighlife
2005-11-01, 14:46
Just wondering, back in the old days I have seen goat tied out for Bear traps (Capture alive)

Would they not have the same effect at the camp site and on the trail?

Kinda of luring the Bear into the camp, that he would normally go around.

Pappy

Sgathak
2005-11-01, 16:12
Its possible... but unlikely.

I have never heard of increased bear activity due to goats being around.

You need to remember that goats are very aware animals, extremely in tune with their environments. As camp animals, they act like sentries. The more trail savvy will move off to the side of camp and keep their noses to the wind, and their ears turned agaisnt the wind.

Ill bet if you chained anything remotley edible anywhere, it would draw a bear if it made enough noise or stunk enough.

Seeker
2005-11-01, 16:53
Ill bet if you chained anything remotley edible anywhere, it would draw a bear if it made enough noise or stunk enough.

Like a hiker with a bear bell? LOL :biggrin:

Sgathak
2005-11-01, 23:34
Like a hiker with a bear bell? LOL :biggrin:
One can only hope :biggrin:

dropkick
2005-11-02, 07:28
Just wondering, back in the old days I have seen goat tied out for Bear traps (Capture alive)

Would they not have the same effect at the camp site and on the trail?

Kinda of luring the Bear into the camp, that he would normally go around.

Pappy
Bears can also be lured in by: (listed in the order I remember these items - all known to have attracted bears) dogs, horses, mules, house cat, rabbits, chickens, peanut butter, cheese, shampoo, aftershave, perfume, cat food, dirty dishes, scraps from dish cleaning, unsecured food, fish, alcoholic beverages, rubbing alcohol, fruit, garbage, a closed door, sanitary trench, candy, a bar-b-que, an unfamiliar shape - such as a tent, noise...
(and said to have attracted bears - debunked or?): women in that time of the month, lipstick, lip gloss, antiperspirant, bug spray

I could probably come up with others if I sat and thought long enough.
Bears usually avoid human contact, but you can't ever tell what they will do.
You avoid the risks you can and take your chances with the rest.
To me the risks involved in having either a pack animal or a pet along are outweighed by the benefits.

dropkick
2005-11-02, 07:44
Story I heard was going around the Colorado forest service....
A man was giving a lecture on bears and their avoidance.
He said "You should wear bear bells and carry pepper spray in order to avoid or chase off black bear. Also you should learn to recognize their sign and stay out of areas that they frequent."
"What kind of sign, and how do you recognize it?" he was asked.
"Well" he said "you could look for their scat, which looks something like a humans but larger, and may contain seeds, bones, and fur."
"What about about grizzly scat?" asked a listener.
He replied "It looks like the black bear scat except it's larger and may contain bear bells and smell of pepper."