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dropkick
2006-01-12, 02:15
I was sitting in my chair, thinking about airflow and stove designs and how I could build some to test. When suddenly the design of the old kerosene lamp I had on the shelf registered.

It's a fairly old lamp (1800's) and uses a "round" or french wick. This wick was an improvement to lamps that predated Aladdin lamps (kerosene mantle lamps). It is also the type of lamp that was modified to make the first kerosene mantle lamp.
Anyway...

The wick is a tube, and air comes from both to the outside of the wick and up the center. This makes for a much brighter lamp.
As far as I know (might be wrong - haven't ever torn one apart) this is also how a kerosene heater works.

Just made a quick rough sketch of the lamp (as my explanation might be confusing):

http://www.freeimghosting.com/images/dropkick/p1137045765387.jpg


My idea is to use a variation of this wick in a stove.
Haven't quite figured how I'm going to do it yet (as I have limited metal work tools and experience) but I thought I would show it to you and maybe someone else could do it or see a way to make it work.

Lanthar
2006-01-12, 05:05
I've had similar ideas before... thought some fiberglass tape for fixing mufflers would work for the wick... same boat as you though, limited metal working skill / tools... seems to me the hardest part would be sealing the middle flow tube so that it doesn't leak...

The HotDog
2006-01-12, 13:32
There are several way that I can see working to seal the tube from leaking.
1. You could make the tank and tube out of copper and solder them together
2. Just solder the pipe together normally
3. Use some type of glue or other sealant

Nevertheless, how all of these methods will work I do not know at least there options

incognito
2006-01-12, 14:24
Been tossing this one around for awhile, it's in the works, should have a prototype soon

incognito
2006-01-12, 15:34
Kerosene heater style STOVES have been around for awhile.Big ones that is.

http://www.indiamart.com/mvsindustries/

incognito
2006-01-12, 20:39
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/coreburnercenterwick001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/coreburnercenterwick002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/coreburnercenterwick004.jpg

1st photo shows burner without wick, center core is soldered copper with brass insert(called a flame spreader by oil lamp people) that is adjustable up & down

2nd photo shows fiberglass wick inserted(same as megawick)

3rd photo shows bottom air access hole.

When testing for burn times etc. the burner will be raised so as to allow air to enter hole.
I have three of these made, each a little different to test different ideas. We'll see how it goes.

I'll do tests this coming weekend.

dropkick
2006-01-13, 02:32
I worried that solder wouldn't stand up to the heat, and because of this didn't consider it.
If I was wrong it will open many new options.
I am an excellant solderer. (Did anyone else just hear Dustin Hoffman in their head?)

Lanthar
2006-01-13, 18:59
Nice work...

that looks really interesting... I look forward to hearing how it works...

dropkick
2006-01-13, 23:19
Failed attempt.Tried a modified pop can stove, didn't work very well.
Hope you can figure out what I did from this.
http://www.freeimghosting.com/images/dropkick/p1137208361466.jpg

Lanthar
2006-01-14, 10:17
Dropkick,
I think part of the idea is that you don't need to make the stove pressurized or 'with jets'

ie, try it without the green line piece of can

btw... can you explain more about what 'didn't work'?

Turk
2006-01-14, 12:04
I worried that solder wouldn't stand up to the heat, and because of this didn't consider it.
If I was wrong it will open many new options.
I am an excellant solderer. (Did anyone else just hear Dustin Hoffman in their head?)


Dropkick, looks like a really cool stove. Are you using a 1" pressure cap
as the main body of the stove? Your solder should stand the heat no problem
if you used 95/5. I could see the possibility of failure with old lead based
solders or 50/50 blend. If you really need to beat the heat, get a stick
of no-flux brazing rod like "silfoss". Very interested to see how your
design works out. Let us know your test results.

dropkick
2006-01-15, 01:13
The stove worked it just used a lot of fuel and didn't produce very good flames.
The picture I drew isn't very good, and the nomenclature I used is misleading or wrong. sorry.
The "jets" are 1/4 inch holes, I didn't solder anything on it, and I made the base too complicated for what it was, a test stove.

What I did might be easier to understand if you see the design I started with:
http://www.pcthiker.com/pages/gear/pepsiGstoveinstruct.shtml

Now imagine that stove taller, with holes on the tops of inner and outer walls instead of jets, and cotton batting (wick) in between the walls. Now cut the bottom out so you have a double wall tube. That is the working part of the stove.

Everything else I did was just a complicated way for air to reach the bottom hole and an attempt to make fueling easier.

I also tried to build a simpler version out of 2 tin cans (pineapple rings, mushrooms) using JB Weld with almost the same results.

I know there has to be another way to make this work, just needs some more thought.
Though looks like incognito has at least one version whipped. I'm very interested to find out how it compares to his other stoves.

P.S. Don't use a lined can in a stove ....it really stinks

incognito
2006-01-16, 16:22
Made 11 burns, used denatured alcohol, boiled 2 cups(16 oz.) of water between 4 min. and 41/2 min. using 2/3 ounce(20ml) of fuel.

Air and water temperatures were at 40 degrees F. for each burn.

I'm pleased with the results.

While doing the tests my mind started to wander and one thing led to another. Because of the stoves design it gave way to the pyro in me and and the rest is history.

Used 3 grams of powdered magnesium positioned over the central air port laid out on a stainless steel mesh support with a fiberglass cloth layer on top of it and the mag. powder on top of the fiberglass.

Lit the stove(alcohol as fuel), stove heated the mag. powder to ignition, powder burns at a slow rate, between 4,000 and 5,000 degrees, not with a brilliant white flash but an orangish hot color(?) molten lava, thats it, molten lava color. Hot stuff!!!!!

Was able to boil 2 cups of water in 2 min. 15 sec.

The magnesium burned through the fiberglass cloth but not the ST mesh.

Used a pyrex beaker to hold the water 1 inch above the magnesium.

I had fun!!!!!!!!

My camera is not feeling well as soon as it recovers I"ll post pics.

My next tests will be other fuels, to see how they burn with the oxygen coming from the center core of the stove.

In low light the center fllame looks cool.

Talking about cool, I added a low profile base with holes all around it to support the stove and provide an airflow to the central core. Well!! it worked out so that I'm able to hold the stove in the palm of my hand through an entire 12 min. burn when fueled with 1 oz. of fuel. Now that's cooooolllll no more burned shelter platforms or picknick tables. You can even use it on your kitchen table or countertop.

DROPKICK, hope you come up with a way to burn kero. Looks like your designs are getting close, keep up the good work, I like the way you think and your drawings.

Like I always say!!!!

Lanthar
2006-01-17, 13:45
magnesium? wow... um... wow... what a backpacker fuel!

Seeker
2006-01-17, 14:15
wow... that's pretty quick...

my warped mind is now wondering how to hold an Estes model rocket engine upside down, or a road flare, to cook over... would you need 6'' of clearance between pot and 'stove', or would that be too much? too little? :biggrin:

incognito
2006-01-17, 21:15
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/magnesiummgwk001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/obijiwa/magnesiummgwk002.jpg

This is the lava orange i was talkin about.

Just think, little teabag size pouches of magnesium instead of heavy bottles of alchy :biggrin: Gram counters eat your hearts out, now i can go ultra-ultra light. You can doit also,just adapt your popcan stoves to resist 5,000 degrees. Not a problem for stovies and magovias :damnmate: