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Turk
2006-02-04, 15:47
Stand back .. I'm taking a shot.
No, not at you ... at the B.S. super ultralighters.
Trying to restrain myself here from a long rant. So i'll keep
this brief. I would like to mark a new notch on the post of shame.
Right up there with "urban commandos", politicans that day-hike, and
people that drop T.P. bombs, and "white-mice" on the trail.

I know alot of you here have mixed views on pack-lists. Myself, I
tend to be nosy, and look more at brand names and homemade gear
choices than at actual content. I don't generally look at an ultra-light
pack list and start removing items from my own list. My interest is
usually based on getting gear performance reviews from these people.
Find out things like if a big $$ item was worth it, or if a homemade
piece of gear was actually better..etc... stuff like that.

The funny thing is, (and I am not pointing any fingers at this forum)
there is this whole B.S. prestige grabbing ego crap going on with
alot of these so-called "ultra-lighters and super-ultralighters".
All I have to say is ... w.t.f.?!? You post up a pack list that
not only falsifies gear weights of known items, but then also
cut every corner and technicality just so you can be named
champion psycho with your 4 lb pack. I just read through
several of these type pack lists and I'm calling the bluff.
Buuuullllllll.....$#!%.

This kind of info isn't useful to anyone. Worse than that, they
go around claiming they can, and routinely do go 4 season with
these setups. Ya... right. Maybe in the tropics.

So ya... thats my beef. People claiming they are this new
breed of super-turbo ultra-light or whatever the heck they call
themselves, and then feeding us their BS by the shovel-full.
It's just low down and dirty. If these people are the new
"backcountry super-heros" then I am declaring myself their
alter-ego Arch Nemesis. I'm going carry lead bricks in my pockets,
and a folding 16ft banquet table.. and wear cast-iron shoes! Muuhahahahahaaaaaaa!

But ya.. okay its out of my system. Actually I was out this past weekend
and decided my 1lb per litre tatonka setup is getting scrapped. I tried
to cut too much in safety and comfort last year. my 16lb pack is
getting beefed up a hefty 4-6 lbs this year. I plan to 'pork-up' with
a pound and a half of khukuri, and another lb in a nice new feathered friends
rock-wren. My survuval kit is going back to what it was, and im going
to carry a FULL-featured first aid kit. And more heavy foods just because
they are so darn tasty!! And guess what... my pride isnt injured one bit.

Turk
2006-02-04, 16:13
Turk's Tips for going-

More Super Ultra Lighter Faster than You

1. Wax your entire body. Hair creates drag and adds ounces of
weight you don't need to be carrying. This will make you more
aero-dynamic and cut seconds off record attempting thru hikes.

2. Tattoo your body jet-black. Leave your clothes at home. What is
lighter and breathes better than Gore Tex? Going nude. Your full
body tattoo will absorb the suns rays and add incredible and often
unbelieveable heating performance much like stove-paint on alcohol stoves.

3. Smear toothpaste on your armpits. This not only eliminate any need
for soap or deodorants, but also saves you from needing a container.
Saves time in camp too. Brush your teeth on the run. Rinse, with sweat.

4. Get a colonic before you go. Drop 15lbs you've been carrying around
in your intestines. Take all your buddies and get a group discount.
What better way to spend an afternoon than with a hose up your .... ya.
good .. times.

5. draw your maps on tortilla shells. You can eat the distance you
cover each day, and its lighter than a GPS. Better be a thru hike though.
On a loop trail this might kill you.

6. Its called fast-and light for a reason. If you run day and night, you
don't need a sleep system or a shelter.

7. Why carry a heavy water bottle. Scoop water in your mouth and
swallow small amounts as needed.

8. Why carry anything? weight is for suckers and fools. Use your
trail gun to make other hikers carry stuff for you. Wait a minute...
guns have weight... threaten them and make them carry that too.

9. Don' t replace gear with knowledge! Brains are heavy! and we use
only like 10% of it. Get a frontal labotomy. No more heavy brains to carry
in your head. You only need basic functions in the backcountry anyway.
If you can grunt and point... you can get directions. But why stop
for directions. You are going so fast and light, that could add seconds
or even MINUTES to your overall time.


Cheers.

Sgt.Krohn
2006-02-04, 17:27
Turk- my take on this SuperUltraLite ĎBíStuff

When I was in the infantry in Nam our normal missions were 30days out so we virtually lived out of our Alice packs. If you live out of a pack day in & day out- you refine what you carry and how you carry it after a few months. Itís unfortunate that we had such a lousy pack frame (the pack was OK) and everything was so heavy.

Since we were re-supplied from the rear every 4 days we only carried 4 days of food and water- but 75% of our food were ĎCírations (heavy canned food) and the rest were LRRP meals (MountainHome freeze dried meals). And everybody usually humped around 7qts of water for 4days (& I know I didnít share my water)

For whatever gear we didnít carry and we got along without- it didnít make much difference because every man in the squad humped 200 rounds for the M-60 and at least 500 rounds of ammo for his M-16- as well as numerous mags, grenades (HE, WP, smoke), 5# of C-4 & many humped a Claymore.

In the end about the only personal gear you carried was a poncho. You lived in your poncho 6 months out of the year anyhow (monsoons). Whatever you tried not to carry- in the end your pack always weighed at least 100# or a little over. And you still carried your weapon and wore a steel pot.

Well after I got home from that fun little hiking trip, any hiking trip I took that didnít have ammo, grenades, mags, weapon, steel pot, C-rats, Claymores (battery for the Claymore) took at least 50# out of my pack- usually more. So I already thought I was SuperUltraLite backpackiní

About 20 years ago I bought an external frame Peak-1 (with the flexible plastic frame) pack. Itís still the pack I use. I live in Texas so most of our hiking is HOT!! And you really need an external frame. My pack is down to around 45# for a 4-day outing and itís light enough. Iíve replaced a few things in the last few years- home-made alcohol stove, etcÖ but I probably havenít lightened my pack by more than around 6 or 7# from where I was 20 years ago.

I enjoy ready about the crazies that do everything they can to get down to whatís really just a 10# day pack. Every once in awhile Iíll pick up a tip that I might use, but most of the time I just smile at how silly people are. And then I remember that thing I humped in-country 37 years ago that weighed 110# and thank my lucky stars that my pack only weighs 40#s

dropkick
2006-02-04, 19:01
I'm going to go super duper extra mega beyond compare optimum paramount peerless transcendent thundering super colossal monster ultra light.... but I'm not going to skimp on my gear.
I'm getting a weather balloon, filingl it with helium, and attaching it to a climbing harness.
If I balance it right all my gear plus myself will weigh in at just under 1 oz.
I plan on moving down the trail by throwing a small anchor in front of me and then pulling myself to it.

Iceman
2006-02-04, 21:13
Turk, do you feel better now?

Turk, Sgt Krohn and DropKick, I have found that it is much easier for me if I simply ignore those micro light pack lists, and the ultra megalight hikers. I like to be prepared, and I like excess. If I want to pack in a stove top espresso maker, for one F-ing cup of coffee in the morning, who is going to stop me? I stopped worrying about the granola-heads who hike around here the day I strapped a 357mag to my hip, let my dog run loose ahead of me, and played my radio strapped to the top of my backpack. You don't like it, F off. So far, no one has complained.

Salvelinus
2006-02-05, 19:32
Dropkick--can you send me one of those setups?

:laugh:

Redleg
2006-02-12, 18:28
The very definition of an Ultra Light Fanatic is: Some one who's pack is 2 ounces lighter than yours.

My base weight is down to 10% of what I used to carry as a FiSTer. I am not proud, just tired.
Neener Neener Neeener.
jaf

SowthEfrikan
2006-02-25, 13:59
I have to agree with Turk.

Let me tell you about an experience I had with ultralight. This guy chanced to read that ultralight book by Ray whatshisface, sorry, I forget the name.

So no problem, a hike comes up. There he is with this tiny daypack, with all his gear shoved in, the hip belt cut off - and six pounds of food that ends up IN MY PACK.

It's nonsense, in my humble opinion. Of course we want good, light gear, and things that do double duty where possible, and have deep, deep thoughts about do we really need that second t-shirt? But there is such a thing as going to the extreme.

Anyway, hiking is more than about just walking as super fast as you can and rolling those miles in. Ick. What's the point if you are missing seeing that amazing rock because, shucks, you have 5 more miles to go? You may as well stay home and run around the block.

Hiking is also about ambling, about that wonderous time at the end of the day, when you make camp, stretch out, and relax reading on that extra mat you strapped to the outside of your pack, and read that book that weighs near a pound, and scoff the chocolate and sip the ...

It's a bit of a Calvinistic thing, too, I suppose. I worked hard and now I get to enjoy the fruits of my labour.

I like ultralight where it enables me to carry about the same weight with a luxury or two now added that I might not otherwise have been able to enjoy.

I'm surprised people pay so much attention to other people's packlists. I think of them as potentially picking up good ideas that might fit into your hiking lifestyle, not something to be slavishly followed.

All hail ultralight that allows luxuries.

Seeker
2006-02-26, 01:44
I'm surprised people pay so much attention to other people's packlists. I think of them as potentially picking up good ideas that might fit into your hiking lifestyle, not something to be slavishly followed. All hail ultralight that allows luxuries.

i ran into an outfitter in florida about a year ago who had some customers who had run into Ray 'what's his name' Jardine in the smokies once, and told him this story... i don't know if it's true, but even if not, it's an example of what can go wrong... the important thing isn't that it was RJ, but could have been ANY 'too-ultralighter'... seems the man got caught out one night with not enough sleeping bag, and kept the whole shelter awake all night when he got up every hour to do jumping jacks to keep warm... that's one technique, but bothersome to others and therefore not a really good one... so i tend to agree with you and turk... the superultramegadoublelightweight philosophy is ok until someone gets hurt, or bothers me-in the form of jumping jacks, yogiing food or first aid stuff, etc... i personally like to go as light as possible, and don't need a lot of luxuries... a book and binos are about the only things i carry 'extra'... but if someone wants to carry an espresso maker, butane curling iron, cast iron spoon, and wear 8 lbs of boots, that's on them... i'll share "how i do it" with them, if asked, but it's still their hike.

to me, gear lists exist to show you what's possible... not what you 'should' do...

on another lightweight note, my daughter received a set of UNO cards (you know, the game) as a party favor today... guys, i BS you not, they weighed just over an ounce for the 102 card deck, and came in a box about 1.5" x 2''... the cards are about 1.5'' by 1'' each... you can barely read them... cool though, and may find a place in my pack... i also have a set of regular hiking playing cards, but they're about twice that big... don't carry them much though, since i'm usually alone...