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KBob
2006-03-18, 07:38
What does everybody like for a filter. Yes I know that they are heavy but I just don't like the taste of chems. I am looking at a Katidin.

Seeker
2006-03-18, 10:46
taste? hmm... sounds like you've been using iodine... have you tried aqua mira? i get no after-taste from it.

i have an MSR Mini-Works that i don't use anymore... worked fine, but it weighs a whole pound... i liked how it screwed into a nalgene bottle... but now you're up to a 22 oz, almost a pound and a half, just for 'water stuff'... soda bottle and AM drops weigh 3.6 oz... weight is my driving force. if it serves the same function, and is lighter, i usually use it.

btw, i think, from previous listening/lurking, that most people here use AM or some sort of lighter alternative to filters... except Iceman, who has some sort of wagon-mounted water purification plant that he drags around with him in the woods, (uses a sledge in the winter), and Turk, who has his mounted on a barge that's towed behind his kayak. (you know i'm just kidding guys... love you both... :love: ) ( :biggrin: )

KLeth
2006-03-18, 12:27
Bacteria, vira and amoeba either requires a very good filter or chemicals.

Many filters uses either silvercoated ceramic-filter or coal-filters.
Coal filters should clog up easily, so for large quantities you might need a ceramic filter. Some filters uses dual-filters meaning that they have both coal and ceramic filters.

If there are toxins or chemicals in the water, it will have to be filtered through a coal-filter.

This summer wi will be taking water from the indland ice or from ponds. We have a Relag Travelfilter and a MSR MIOX. But the filter is only to be able to filter algae and silth from the water. MIOX is only used if water i clear and cold but from a stale source. I think the MIOX gives a real bad taste.

If you're used to drinking chlorine water,ma ny of the chemicals shouldn't bother you and the aqua-mira is VERY popular since it has very little taste and is quite safe.

I'm not used to it and when I've been in the US I've had the feeling that I was served swimmingpool water.

Take-a-knee
2006-03-18, 13:31
Amen on the pool water Kleth, I filter all my drinking water at home to remove chlorine. I bought an MSR Miox last year but I've only played with it, I haven't really put it to use, it does produce water with a chlorine taste. As for filters, there is no such thing as a backpackable(LW) filter that will remove viruses, they are too small to filter. A LARGE virus is 0.25 microns, most filters don't work on anything smaller than 2.0 microns. I suspect if they made one with pore sizes that small it would readily clog, and be so hard to pump water through you'd throw it in the trash. I used the Katadyn filters in the Army, both the small ones and a larger "crew-served" version. They work well but they are heavy and quite fragile. I bought an MSR for my own use. MSR makes a prefilter that uses iodine (remember, viruses must be killed chemically, this isn't hard to do, the dose is a lot lower than that required to kill bacteria). This is just a convienience (the prefilter), you can just do it yourself. Seekers recipe is probably the way to go. I must try the Aquamira . I think a water filter is worth owning even if you never backpack if you are dependent on a municipal water supply... shit happens, literally.

jimtanker
2006-03-18, 21:31
Aqua-Mira!!! :elefant:

Redleg
2006-03-19, 00:15
http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1424
http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?t=476
http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1252

Or, just look in general forums, health and hygine. Then "view thread" from the begining.
That will pull up all those cool older discussions(well, I think they are cool.)
jaf

incognito
2006-03-19, 00:51
No filter needed to purify!!!!!!

Just bring it to a rolling boil in 10.5 min with an alcohol stove like the 5 gram teeny weeny tea candle stove TC5

The same information is given in the book "How to shit in the woods"

Use a coffee filter or somthing else of choice to filter out the big stuff.

http://giardiaclub.com/water-purification.html

Iceman
2006-03-19, 01:00
Alcohol must kill giardia....so far so good..... :biggrin:

dropkick
2006-03-19, 01:38
My favorite water filter is the Sawyer water filter. And the reason why it's my favorite is because it's the only one I've ever owned.
I got it brand new from Goodwill for a couple bucks.
Someday I'll probably use it.

I use Polar Pure iodine with Tang for flavor and boiling normally.

I have no fears and will drink from a spring without doing anything to the water as long as I'm close to where it comes up.

I have drunk from rivers, creeks, and ditches without treating the water, but I'm normally a little leary about doing this.
While I personally believe that the risk is fairly low, at most times I don't want to chance having diarrhea for a week.

--On the plus side, normally you develop an immunity once you've had one of the bugs. On the minus side there are many different varieties, and you can become a carrier, or develop other problems if your system has trouble fighting them off.

Swingo
2008-03-16, 20:29
Used it once while camping at the Delaware Water Gap. The reviews are all positive across the web, but I had some problems. First, I don't know if it's just basic camping knowledge or not, but you have to pump the thing slowly, or little black specks end up floating in your "clean" water. Second, and I hope someone can answer this, the water tasted skunked! Even after pumping slow and getting clear water, it still tasted like stinky river water. We tried boiling it first, then filtering, but no luck. Katadyn sells a carbon filter as a final step to cleansing, it's supposed to remove chemicals to improve taste, but the foul smell I encountered was not from chemicals so I don't know if it would work. I honestly think I'll just carry some bottled water next time, the taste was so bad.

GGS
2008-03-16, 23:32
Used it once while camping at the Delaware Water Gap. The reviews are all positive across the web, but I had some problems. First, I don't know if it's just basic camping knowledge or not, but you have to pump the thing slowly, or little black specks end up floating in your "clean" water. Second, and I hope someone can answer this, the water tasted skunked! Even after pumping slow and getting clear water, it still tasted like stinky river water. We tried boiling it first, then filtering, but no luck. Katadyn sells a carbon filter as a final step to cleansing, it's supposed to remove chemicals to improve taste, but the foul smell I encountered was not from chemicals so I don't know if it would work. I honestly think I'll just carry some bottled water next time, the taste was so bad.

Same problem here.

I'm theorizing that the filter removes harmful bacteria but isn't fine enough to filter out minerals and other [hopefully harmless] chemicals that we can taste.

I've filtered enough stagnant water and not gotten sick that I do believe the filter is doing its job.

I'm going to try and add a little Crystal Light to my filtered water this summer and see if that helps the taste.

Anybody else have any ideas here?

enviro
2008-03-17, 12:53
As for filters, there is no such thing as a backpackable(LW) filter that will remove viruses, they are too small to filter. A LARGE virus is 0.25 microns, most filters don't work on anything smaller than 2.0 microns. I suspect if they made one with pore sizes that small it would readily clog, and be so hard to pump water through you'd throw it in the trash.

The First Need filter does remove virus. It is the only non-chemical filter that is classified by EPA as a purifier 0.1 micron pore size). Granted it is a bit on the heavy side (close to 1 lb), but it cleans very easy by backwashing and no scrubbing w/ a brush is required. Used one for years till I decided it was too heavy.

grannyhiker
2008-03-17, 19:54
After about a month of using iodine to disinfect my drinking water (only on weekends), I broke out in a rash over most of my body. The lesions (lichen planus) were really deep, itched horribly and left permanent scars. Since then I have not been able to eat seafood, take most multi-vitamin/mineral supplements or eat iodized salt (which means I can't accept invitations out or eat at most restaurants without requesting food made without salt, since very few people use plain rather than iodized salt). If I ever have to have an angiogram--forget that; it uses iodine too. My dermatologist told me that such allergic reactions to iodine are not at all uncommon (his words).

Iodine is contraindicated for pregnant women, young children and anyone with thyroid problems, and both the CDC and EPA state it should be used only in a short-term emergency. In addition, iodine is not the safest alternative for getting rid of giardia (the most common nasty). If the water is cold, it requires a contact time of at least 4 hours and even then isn't always successful.

enviro
2008-03-18, 00:20
Wow, Granny I've not heard of such an extreme reaction to iodine before. That's very unfortunate. I never have liked using iodine, don't like the taste and I have read the same thing about the lack of effectiveness of iodine disenfecting the protozoans giardia and crypto.

dropkick
2008-03-18, 02:44
Not trying to be insensitive to Grannyhiker, but she has had an allergic reaction and is prejudiced against iodine.

Iodine sensitivity depends on the individual. Also many of the problems blamed on the iodine are often not caused by it, but rather by the unmasking of preexisting thyroid problems.

The majority of people can use iodine with no problem at all.

Source: Use of Iodine for Water Disinfection: Iodine Toxicity and Maximum Recommended Dose - Environmental Health Perspectives Volume 108, Number 8, August 2000



The the CDC does say that iodine isn't recommended for pregnant women, people with thyroid problems, those with known hypersensitivity to iodine, or for continuous use (should be limited to a few weeks at a time).

But they don't say that iodine should be restricted to emergency use only.
In reality they recommend using it for purifying water.

Source:Link CDC Water Treatment pamphlet (http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/contentWaterTreatment.aspx)



Iodine if used correctly will kill Giardia, it may not kill Cryptosporidium. But as your filters might even miss crypto, the only way to be truly safe from Crypto is to boil the water

Sources: cdc/parasites/giardiasis (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/submenus/sub_giardia.htm)
cdc/parasites/cryptosporidiosis (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/submenus/sub_giardia.htm)



Also many people (some sources say the majority of people) have already been infected by Crypto, have developed an immunity to it and didn't even know it happened.
-This is why I don't worry much about Crypto.



Iodine does need a period of time to work (30 min. or more) and the colder or more turbid the water the longer it needs.
The time needed can be offset some by using one or all of these methods: warming the water with your body, straining the water through a cloth before treating, or using more iodine.

I treat my water for hours before I use it, allowing more than enough time for the iodine to clean the water. I do this by carrying more than one water bottle, and trading them off. One bottle for treatment and One for use.

pure_mahem
2008-03-18, 03:45
Anyone checking out that new MSR Hyperflow?

enviro
2008-03-18, 14:45
Anyone checking out that new MSR Hyperflow?

I'm waiting for it to be available at the REI store where I work, so that I can lay hands on it and mess with it. Seems fast and light.

I saw a post that indicated that there were some problems in testing with water freezing and cracking the cartridge in very cold conditions. I think that very cold conditions are difficult for most cartridge filters though.

We'll see.

pure_mahem
2008-03-18, 18:23
I saw that 2. They said they were suppose to fix the plastic problems before production, we'll see. As for freezing I don't hike in those extreme colds so no worries but if I did I think a ziploc and an inside pocket would cure the problem, if not just modestly shaking the water out of the little device. Granted you can't get it all but I think I'd be able to get enough out so I wouldn't have to worry about it busting from freezing. Does look very intresting I can't wait to get my hand on one to check it out for myself.

Tangent
2008-03-18, 21:14
I have a Katadyn Hiker Pro and I don't know what you're talking about with the water taste. Everything was fine for me. I didn't have black specs or nothing.

enviro
2008-03-18, 21:42
I saw that 2. They said they were suppose to fix the plastic problems before production, we'll see. As for freezing I don't hike in those extreme colds so no worries but if I did I think a ziploc and an inside pocket would cure the problem, if not just modestly shaking the water out of the little device. Granted you can't get it all but I think I'd be able to get enough out so I wouldn't have to worry about it busting from freezing. Does look very intresting I can't wait to get my hand on one to check it out for myself.

I've hiked with filters in the cold (as the south Appalachians get, but still below freezing). When I'm done filtering my water, I just pull the influent side out and keep pumping until nothing comes out. That doesn't get all moisture out, but does get the majority of the water out. Then as you say, put it in a ziplock and in my bag at my feet for the night.

Always worked for me with no problems.

Swingo
2008-03-19, 21:44
Tangent: Do you use the secondary carbon filter

http://www.rei.com/product/709006?vcat=REI_SEARCH