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Dreadie
2006-03-27, 13:48
Okay, guys and gals, this question is probably going to sound very dumb to you, but I am pretty much a newbie in backpacking/hammocking. I purchased a MacCat tarp a few months back and have spent the same amount of time searching for what type of line is best for the main support line (the one you tie to the trees) for the tarp. I found a lot of suggestions for stake-out lines (thank you), but not the main support. Please help! I am looking for line with proper strength, of course, but also lightweight/less bulk for my AT hike in '09.I appreciate any and all help.

Seeker
2006-03-27, 14:43
personally, i use a heavier version of kelty triptease lightline, in black vs kelty's yellow, and it's got a breaking strength of 300 lbs or so vs triptease's 80 or whatever it is. regarding lightline, i was always afraid it would give way in a storm, though it never did while i used it. but when i found the heavier stuff (spool of 50' costs about $14) i was happier.

my side tie outs are 3/16th' white nylon cord with a taut-line hitch in them. makes adjusting them really easy.

Just Jeff
2006-03-27, 20:05
Until I got the JRB tarp tensioners, I used the same stuff on the ridgeline that I use on the stake-outs. Don't even know what it is - probably had a breaking strength around 2-300 lbs. As long as it won't break in high winds, you don't need any special stuff to tie up a tarp.

brian
2006-03-27, 21:56
The 1\12" line I have been using for my tarp for the past two years is rated for 200 lbs, and it has been working great. I use the same line for the main line and the stake out line, just to keep things simple. So far, no problems in high winds.

Brian
OES

Seeker
2006-03-28, 00:00
hey jeff,

tell dreadie that story again, about the night you were up on the mountain with the really high winds... that might help... you were using your mccat tarp that trip, weren't you? or was it the other one?

Just Jeff
2006-03-28, 01:09
It was a might bit breezy in the MacCat that night...

http://www.tothewoods.net/HikingPicturesWinnemucca.html

Rifleman
2006-03-28, 02:17
Forget the lines. Go back to square one. Ditch the catenary tarp. They have a major failing which is only occasionly mentioned on all these forums--a catenary tarp can only be pitched one way! This makes for a 'pretty', quiet (aerodynamic) pitch, yet if you make the mistake of setting up in an exposed position and the wind changes direction you are screwed. You can't make micro-adjustments for wind changes. Seriously consider a more adaptable 8x8, 9x9, 8x10, or 10x10 tarp which can be pitched in a multitude of positions. Also, there's a reason that, despite a little extra weight, 550 cord has been used with parachutes.
R.

blackdog
2006-03-28, 04:29
"Live life Real not virual."
Virual? Does that mean "like a virus"? If so then i fully agree. ;)

In Japanese, the word gomi means rubbish, junk, dirt. Gomi is extremely undesirable. Second-hand clothes and other belongings are frowned upon. "New" is fashionable in Japan. But, this constantly generated old tech offers many possibilities for use on the bottom rungs of the socio-economic ladder. Gomi is also the word used to descibe "landfill" words in postings, like this very paragraph...

Just Jeff
2006-03-28, 12:08
One important note for the line you choose - In high winds, you want the line to fail before the tarp. Repairing a broken line is a simple knot, but repairing a ripped tarp in the field could be trouble in some conditions. Might want to keep the breaking strength in mind when you choose your line.

Rifleman
2006-03-28, 16:50
If you're into equipment failure then go with low-load lines and be ready to bail into someone's tent, that is if you have a ground dweller camping with you who is reserving space for you when your set-up fails. If not, buy or make a good strong tarp with strong lines and reinforced tie-outs, be prepared for bad weather (don't put 100% trust into a weather forecast--its your life, right?) and set up a good storm pitch on the lee side of a ridge. Its up to you whether you get the Darwin award or live to die in bed!
R.

Just Jeff
2006-03-28, 17:08
All equipment fails - planning for the right kind of failure (i.e. easily repairable lines instead of the tarp) is a systems approach. I'm glad my MacCat didn't fail because the lines did first. I could have easily used the tarp over a snow trench if I were by myself...unless it had ripped.

Rifleman
2006-03-28, 17:16
All equipment fails - planning for the right kind of failure (i.e. easily repairable lines instead of the tarp) is a systems approach. I'm glad my MacCat didn't fail because the lines did first. I could have easily used the tarp over a snow trench if I were by myself...unless it had ripped.

"Me thinks thou doth protest too much." [Translation] If the shoe fits,
wear it. Darwin always enjoyed seeing his theory confirmed. :rolleyes:
R.

Just Jeff
2006-03-28, 19:30
Well, if you can't critique the message, then I guess critiquing the messenger is the next best tactic. If you're satisfied with next best.

Methinks thou doth troll too much. [Translate] that however you like.

Take-a-knee
2006-03-28, 21:27
I think Jeff in on target here, when you build up a killer 4WD you try to design it so that something cheap and easily repairable will break first. For example: a hub or a U-joint, instead of a transfer case or a differential. It would be nice to have your "fuse" designed to fail at 90% or so of the rest of the system but I ain't that smart. If you build everything "bombproof", you won't be able to carry it. Bismarck said that "He who defends everything, defends nothing."

Dreadie
2006-03-28, 22:05
Hey guys, thanks for your replies. Just Jeff, I had watched those videos and read some of your trip report a while back. Unbelievable first snow camping trip! Thanks Seeker, for reminding us of that trip. That's awesome that the tarp held up through all that. Brian, thanks again for a fine product. I like your (new?) avatar. I haven't been here in a little while, so not sure how new it is. Rifleman, you said "Its up to you whether you get the Darwin award or live to die in bed!". I have a feeling it's going to be off a side of a cliff while hiking. I get vertigo real easy.

Rifleman
2006-03-29, 00:06
Well, if you can't critique the message, then I guess critiquing the messenger is the next best tactic. If you're satisfied with next best.

Methinks thou doth troll too much. [Translate] that however you like.

Troll yourself lightweight. Go back to mama and leave the serious (experienced & informed) discussion to those of us who have been a few miles and have survived to tell the tale. :rolleyes:
R.
P.S. Bismarck was referring to Germany's African colonies. The 'Iron Chancellor' knew what mattered--Europe!

dropkick
2006-03-29, 00:59
Troll yourself lightweight. Go back to mama and leave the serious (experienced & informed) discussion to those of us who have been a few miles and have survived to tell the tale. :rolleyes:
Rifleman,
I don't want to get into the middle of what could become a flame war, but you are in the wrong. You attacked Just Jeff first and with no provocation.
It could be bad wording on your part, but you attacked him personally and not just what he wrote that you disagreed with. This is wrong.

And while I don't actually know anything about you except what you say, I do know that Just Jeff is both an experienced and informed hiker, as is attested by his website, which has been recommended* reading for new hikers and gear builders for quite a while.

*His site has been recommended on several other hiking boards in addition to this one.


Please calm down and consider your words before you post.

dropkick
2006-03-29, 01:44
There are ways two ways I know to protect your tarp and lines from the wind.

If you put a tensioners in the lines like shown in my picture below it will both limit the flapping of your tarp and it will protect it (in most cases) from tearing lose.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-3/1165284/tensioner.jpg

Or you can tie a (one) downwind corner to a stick or small rock that the wind can lift slightly. Though it doesn't seem like it should, this will also limit the flapping of your tarp, and protect your lines and grommits from tearing.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-3/1165284/risewith.jpg

Rifleman
2006-03-29, 12:16
Rifleman,
I don't want to get into the middle of what could become a flame war, but you are in the wrong. You attacked Just Jeff first and with no provocation.

[RESPONSE]
Not hardly guy. Dreadie asked about tarp lines and I gave him not only my experience but the collected experience of many others concerning catenary tarps. When they are set up properly catenary tarps are beautiful--essentially they are a 'flying wing.' What I said about the catenary is true, correct, and factual--they can only be set up one way. This defeats the purpose of a tarp (adaptability) and could be dangerous--especially if the user picks an exposed set-up site. The trollette is the one who brought up his Winnemucca misadventure--an outing where he himself admits that he miscalculated badly by bringing/using the wrong equipment, relying on old, outdated weather reports, and setting up in an exposed position. He set himself up by wearing his incompetence on his sleeve.

[QUOTE]
It could be bad wording on your part, but you attacked him personally and not just what he wrote that you disagreed with. This is wrong.

[RESPONSE]
I attacked no one. Unlike your attack on me I merely pointed out the positives and negatives of a catenary tarp. Do you want Dreadie to get and use the wrong information from a thread you participated in and to pay for it with his life?

[QUOTE]
And while I don't actually know anything about you except what you say,

[RESPONSE]
Thank you for your candidness. Everyone is ignorant (Southern sense) at one time or another.

[QUOTE]
I do know that Just Jeff is both an experienced and informed hiker, as is attested by his website, which has been recommended* reading for new hikers and gear builders for quite a while.

[RESPONSE]
Don't believe everything you see/hear on the 'net. The overwhelming majority of the trollette's website content has been 'borrowed' from other sites. This "recommended reading" is not really his experience although he passes it off as if it were. Another thing the trollette doesn't tell you about is his vested business interests with an equipment manufacturer. Now that I've pinned him on this board he'll hem and haw and say he doesn't make hardly any money from the relationship yet the fact remains that it is real and on-going.


[QUOTE]
Please calm down and consider your words before you post.

[RESPONSE]
I more than most realize that words mean things and can influence others to action. I do not need to be lectured to in this age of censorship and fear.
Now this is a hammock camping thread. If you want to discuss (rationally) hammocks and related gear I'm with you. If not, there's other places to go where trollettes are praised and rewarded.
R.

Just Jeff
2006-03-29, 12:56
Yep - you pinned me into admitting something that's openly discussed in more than one place on my website, and that's been openly discussed on all of the forums that I regularly post on. Ironically, none of my posts deal with the product in question since I don't promote it on the forums.

And it's interesting that you bring up the point about me passing stuff off as my own experience when I got it from somewhere else. I've gotten several emails appreciating the fact that I clearly separate what I know from experience, what I learned from somewhere else, and what I think might be true. Everything I've gotten from somewhere else is clearly credited, usually with a link. Everything I've experienced myself is listed as such. You're the only one who seems to have a problem with me giving credit where it's due.

I notice you didn't respond to the hammockcamping post where I listed the 24 of 29 topics on that page that I have direct personal experience with. Didn't fit into you "seemingly everything" he learned is from the internet claim, so I guess you ignored it.

But then, I don't claim to have learned everything I know without help from others...which is what you're implying you've done. At least I cite the sources I learn from.

I have no need to demand respect for being smarter than I am. I don't make comments like "leave the serious (experienced & informed) discussion to those of us" and "I more than most realize that..." I just give my opinions and let others draw their own conclusions about me, rather than telling them what those conclusions should be. If you were half as insightful as you try to portray yourself with your witty little catchphrases and off-topic professorial interjections, you'd probably have the self confidence to match and wouldn't need to criticize people instead of ideas.

Speaking of that, how come the majority of your posts on WB, hammockcamping and here are attacking people rather than discussing their ideas? Recently you've started putting in a few topical points in your posts (which is appreciated), but they're still almost always directed a particular individual - rather than at that individual's ideas.

And btw - I didn't bring up the Winnemucca trip on this thread. I responded to Seeker's request. I also openly discussed what happened there and why it happened, because I don't feel the need to misrepresent myself.

This is my last post about you here. Have a great day.

Take-a-knee
2006-03-29, 23:35
Rifleman, since obviously you know every damned thing in the world there is to know, and since you call yourself "Rifleman", what are the fundamental elements of a shooting position?

Rifleman
2006-03-29, 23:46
[QUOTE]
This is my last post about you here. Have a great day.

[RESPONSE]
I'm playing the world's smallest violin. :bawling:

Back to the discussion. Personally I don't care what kind of tarp or tarp lines you use Dreadie. Its your call. I do know that there are always consequences to our actions though and since you're new and inexperienced I do hope you don't have to pay a higher price (consequences) then you are willing to. Have a nice outing.
R.

dropkick
2006-03-30, 01:25
Rifleman,
I didn't attack you, I mearly pointed out some mistakes you had made, and asked you to please stop making personal comments about others.
And all I need to do to prove what I say, is to have people read this entire thread.

Take-a-knee
2006-03-31, 19:04
Rifleman, I'm still waitin' on those shooting position fundamentals Jackass. I'll give you a hint, there are three of them. Maybe you can just look it up on the internet like the rest of us know-nothings.

bird dog
2006-04-01, 01:23
Jeff, Drop Kick, etc....
Im back! Just wanted to chime in and say that not everyone from NC are the same. I enjoy the ideas and thought provoking issues raised here.

BD

Take-a-knee
2006-04-01, 11:05
Rifleman, I'm still waitin' on those three shooting position fundamentals shit-for brains. You choose a name for yourself based on ignorance and have the audacity to come here and attack those who post at Hiking HQ. Go screw yourself know-it-all.

blackdog
2006-04-01, 15:40
Take-a-knee, nobody asks me about how to roll over or play dead, even though i call myself blackdog... People talk all the time and only few know what they are talking about, trust me, i'm full of sh_t most days myself. Feel free to ignore me.

Take-a-knee
2006-04-01, 17:18
Blackdog, point well taken, I guess I took offense at his E-name after he decided to be such a rude bastard to some really nice, helpful people on this forum. I've made a living off and on with a rifle (an M-4 in Iraq last year) for nearly thirty years, so I took it personally.

Since I brought it up, the three fundamentals of a shooting position are:

1) Bone Support

2) Muscular Relaxation

3) Natural Point-of-Aim

blackdog
2006-04-02, 03:22
I guess I took offense at his E-name after he decided to be such a rude bastard to some really nice, helpful people on this forum.
Most rude bastards need people that get offended to be really happy. They thrive in such a setting. The best way to get rid of them is to ignore them. This phenomenon is so well known that there's even "ignoring mechanisms" built into chats and bulletin boards nowadays.

But to be honest i also get really annoyed by people that think they're better. Problem is that some (or rather most) here actually know better than i do. ;) I can't express how thankful i am for the advice i've been given here. All i can hope for is that it keeps coming. ...and that some unsensitive participants don't get to spoil things.

Talking about the fundamentals... I was taught something similar in my army days (Sweden has drafting even in peace time), but only remembered it when you told the answer to the question. Thanks for the reminder, T-a-k.

GregH
2006-04-02, 16:26
So I forgot...what do you recommend for a main tarp line? :rolleyes:

Mutinousdoug
2006-04-02, 19:48
I was going to guess:
1) NPA (natural point of aim) which is pretty much impossible to establish until a proper position is built.
2) Sight picture
3) Trigger control
But those are more for shooting in general, rather than building a position.

GregH:
You'll have to go back to post #4 to pick up the tarpline thread. This one's all hi-jacked.

Dreadie
2006-04-06, 23:23
Did you all know that you can put repeat offenders on an ignore list here? Then you don't see the idiotic posts they write. Cool, huh?
Sorry, Greg, this thread no longer resembles the title. Think I'll change it if I can. :biggrin: It's been funny though.

john pickett
2006-04-07, 11:25
Greg,
I camp on a budget so I use a polypro line I found at Walmart. About 3/8" and orange and black twisted so it's not too hard to see with a flashlight.
Don't need a sprain when on the trail. It's the same rope I use to suspend my hammock so it's plenty strong. My tarp is a 10' by 10' sheet of tyvek housewrap. I use a bowline hitch (I think, been so long) to attach the rope to the tarp for a diamond pitch.
Where in Texas are you? I live in Paris, N.E. of Dallas.
John Pickett