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Buggyman
2006-08-26, 02:36
I have a question concerning liquid fuel stoves. I use alcohol and canister stoves now, but when I first started backpacking in the 70's I used a Svea 123 white gas stove, so I have some curiousity about that type of stove. Anyway, I heard through the grapevine that the U.S. military is using the Swedish made Brunton Optimus Nova and the American made MSR Dragonfly white gas stoves and I wondered if it is true. I heard they call them the "squad stove." There are a lot of active duty and veterans on this site, so anyone know about this? I'm just curious; I wouldn't use this type of stove anymore for backpacking due to the weight factor.

KLeth
2006-08-26, 09:15
I can not tell you what the US army uses but I know a bit about liquid fuel stoves myself - Did a lot of research before buying.
I have got the Optimus SVEA/Climber/123 which I use frequently but our main stove is the Swedish produced Primus Omnifuel, that I keep writing about on this forum.
I choose to Omnifuel over the Nova due to lower boil time, ability to use LBP (also possible on newer Novas) and lower fuel consumption. - At least that was what I found in serveral tests and reviews on scandinavian sites.

Take-a-knee
2006-08-26, 09:27
There is no "official" squad stove to my knowledge, but I've been retired for awhile. Special Ops units have funds with which they can local purchase non -TO&E equipment. When I was in Iraq last year I saw conventional troops with brand-new ACOG sights on their M-4 carbines, these were not a standard issue item, and they were newer models than what the SF units had, so the regular units are doing the same sort of purchases now. You can get regular gas in Iraq through supply channels but the army runs on diesel, an MSR XGK would make more sense from a logistical standpoint, but it is a lousy cooker (but a pretty good blowtorch). My SF unit was issued the multifuel Peak 1 stoves, it was a really good stove but a bit heavy. Many years ago 10th SF was issued the XGK. When I was in the infantry in Alaska in the 70's we had the old squad burners but we never used them, we just used the yukon stove that served as a tent heater.

SGT Rock
2006-08-26, 10:21
The Army is working with MSR to come up with a standard issue stove, but there hasn't been one in a long time. Now days many units have the freedom to order stuff commercially when that was once only open to the SF units. I have seen some units in OIF1 with MSR and with Primus stoves.

Here is the stove they are trying to develop. I know I want one to play with:
http://www.natick.army.mil/soldier/media/fact/food/miwh.htm

JAK
2006-08-26, 12:26
Couldn't get that link to work at the moment.

I did once see a link of a tiny stove being developed for the U.S. Army that forced oil fuel through some sort of porous catalytic ceramic. Was that it? I don't know if vegie oil would gum it up, but diesel fuel might work.

Skidsteer
2006-08-26, 15:22
Couldn't get that link to work at the moment.

I did once see a link of a tiny stove being developed for the U.S. Army that forced oil fuel through some sort of porous catalytic ceramic. Was that it? I don't know if vegie oil would gum it up, but diesel fuel might work.

The link wouldn't work for me either but I'm pretty sure The ceramic stove is the one Rock is talking about. I've read up on it before and it definitely looks interesting.

Here's a link for text but the photos won't seem to load.

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:j4dg0W3a25oJ:www.natick.army.mil/soldier/media/fact/food/miwh.htm+&hl=en&lr=&strip=0

Buggyman
2006-08-26, 23:48
KLeth you might be interested to know that I bought a brand new Svea 123 on sale for $10 in the seventies in the San Francisco Bay area. Times, and prices, have changed a little since then. It was a good little stove, although a little noisy. I stopped using it because of an incident that was my fault due to my inexperience. I tried to fill the tank with the stove going and my fuel bottle caught fire and started a small bonfire that scared me so much I stopped using white gas stoves althogether. Lost a few eyebrows on that one. I sold it to a friend and swiched to an early Bluet model.

Lately I've been getting the urge to get a white gas stove for car camping and snowshoeing, so I've been reseaching the subject a little. Coleman has a new white gas stove called the Exponent Apollo that is being sold at Campmor and apparently Brunton is replacing the Nova with the Vapor AF (uses canister and white gas.) For backpacking though, I'm going to stick to my Trangia.

Sgt. Rock I couldn't get your stove link to work, but I think you are talking about that new MSR stove in developement that looks like a Jetboil and uses capillary action rather than a pump to burn the gas. Should be an interesting new stove when it finally comes out.

Take-a-knee
2006-08-27, 00:08
Kleth and Buggyman, I too have a SVEA 123 that I bought in 1976. It has served me well, I've used it on three continents for three decades now. I used it on a three day hike this spring. I am warming up to the alcohol thing however.

dropkick
2006-08-27, 01:30
I'd be interested in a small stove using a ceramic element too (though I don't know about the weight for hiking use).

I do have problem with the people who are releasing the newsbriefs about it though. They act as if it was new technology. Ceramic element heaters have been around for over a hundred years. My Grandparents used one on their ranch back in the 1920's.

It is a new use and size for it though (as far as I know) and I think that it's definately worth a look.

KLeth
2006-08-27, 03:33
KLeth you might be interested to know that I bought a brand new Svea 123 on sale for $10 in the seventies in the San Francisco Bay area. Times, and prices, have changed a little since then. It was a good little stove, although a little noisy. I stopped using it because of an incident that was my fault due to my inexperience. I tried to fill the tank with the stove going and my fuel bottle caught fire and started a small bonfire that scared me so much I stopped using white gas stoves althogether. Lost a few eyebrows on that one. I sold it to a friend and swiched to an early Bluet model.

That could have gone seriously wrong - Glad you didn't get real hurt.
We still use the SVEA but primarily on daytrips in winter due to the low pack volume and its abillity to work well in any weather.

If I should buy a third liquid fuel stove I would look at Coleman Fyrestorm, and Apollo. I would also have another look at The Snow Peak white gas stove. Seperate fuel tank and stove allows better use of windscreens since the tank does not easily get overheated when outside the windscreen.
A proper windscreen will, as you know, decrease boiltime and fuel consumption.

A second point of view is that most multifuel stoves have one jet - "One jet to fit none". That is why I choose the Primus Omnifuel, it is slightly inconvinient to change jet, but fuel consumption can suffer greatly from the one jet principle. In general I prefer to burn white gas but I have found kerosene is easier to control.

But I am going to go for one of the capillary stoves when they become available :elefant: