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atraildreamer
2006-09-02, 04:04
I have been reading a book by Nina Planck titled:

"Real Food-What To Eat And Why"
(Bloomsbury Publishing, 175 Fifth Avenue, NY, NY, 10010
$23.95)

She goes into extensive detail about the origins of what she calls industrial (manufactured) modern-day foods versus traditional(non-processed, or lightly processed) traditional foods.

While this is not a book specifically written for the hiking community, she does give much sound advice on selecting nutritous foods, and avoiding detrimental foods. She also has an extensive index which can be used to further research and plan menu choices which can be readily adapted to preparation of trail food.

It would be an understatement to say that this book has been an eye-opener with regards to the food fallacies that have been foisted on the public. Some of the things she discusses are: Why butter is healthier than margarine. Olive oil is better to use that corn, canola or soybean oils. How salt is overprocessed and made dangerous, while offering a healthier alternative. The extensive "sugaring" of our diet and how that it has led to an epidemic of obesity, heart disease and diabetes. There are too many topics to go into in this post, but the book is well worth finding and reading!

fvital
2006-09-05, 11:43
overprocessing salt? How can that be done? Salt is a pure substance. NaCl. Any changes due to "overprocessing to make it dangerous" is impossible. Are you involved in selling/writing this book? I've noticed that you've posted ads for it in several forums.

Lanthar
2006-09-05, 12:01
overprocessing salt? How can that be done? Salt is a pure substance. NaCl. Any changes due to "overprocessing to make it dangerous" is impossible. Are you involved in selling/writing this book? I've noticed that you've posted ads for it in several forums.

No, salt is not a pure substance, it is a class of compounds that fall under the ionic compound familty. NaCL falls under this class and therefor is a ionic compound and is a 'salt'. No one, except chemical companies, actually sells chemically pure NaCl.

The viewpoint Salt is pure NaCl is a very big mistake.

Now, the term 'table salt' or more specifically 'highly refined sodium-based table salt' or even more specifcially 'the chemical that makes highly refined sodium-base table salt taste salty' would be more or less synonymous with NaCl and is the term you should be using.

However, realize that there is a much healthier alternative in KCl (potassium chloride).

Now, referring to salt as an ingredient would really encompass 'any ingredient that tastes salty'. Througout most of history salt was not nearly has highly refined and so brilliantly white as what we use today. Sea Salt was a very common form (though there are other sources).

Caffiene is similar. Chemical Caffiene is a molecule. FDA recognized caffiene (as an igredient) is actually a compound of chemical caffiene mixed with a number of alkaloids.

Just like there are many kinds of 'sugar'. However, the more refined varieties (more refined in order to enhance their 'sweetness') are the most damaging to human biology. My guess is that the author claims that the overefining of natural salt (aka sea salt or something similar) can make it more dangerous (which is likely true). That and I believe the author claims that the chemicals used to concentrate and refine the salt can leave behind toxic byproducts in the form of minerals that are not found in nature. Worse yet is if the NaCl is not formed from natural sources, you have risks of lacing it with molecular sodium or chloride (both VERY harmful chemicals).

It's a very real concern, and you would do well not to criticize and idea when you don't, in fact, know what you're talking about.

john pickett
2006-09-05, 14:33
"It's a very real concern, and you would do well not to criticize and idea when you don't, in fact, know what you're talking about."
Lanthar,
After reading your post, I find I don't know what I'm talking about and can't remember who I am or where I am or what day it is!
(Sorry Dixie!)
John Pickett

bird dog
2006-09-05, 22:01
Nicely said Lanthar. BD

dropkick
2006-09-06, 01:40
It's a very real concern, and you would do well not to criticize and idea when you don't, in fact, know what you're talking about.
Lanthar, you are starting things on a slippery slope here.
First you limit those that criticize in ignorance.
Next people will be insisting that you actually know what your talking about before you post.
Where will that leave Iceman and me??
:damnmate:

Iceman
2006-09-06, 03:10
Lanthar, you are starting things on a slippery slope here.
First you limit those that criticize in ignorance.
Next people will be insisting that you actually know what your talking about before you post.
Where will that leave Iceman and me??
:damnmate:

In the dark?

Hell, I don't even know what I am talking about, even after I said it...I think...

Besides, what does a slippery slope have to do with anything? Lets all face the truth, criticisms should be executed for the pure fun of it. :biggrin: For instance, there r 11 typos and mispeld wurds in Lantharz epistle, not inkluding a bajeezeez of grammatikal bafunederments, but who is kownting. And who on earth is going to argue with a guy who has majored in Chemical engineering and is working on a masters, not me. I cannot win, either can you. Lanthar wins. End. :adore:

Lanthar
2006-09-06, 12:59
Don't worry guys, half the time, even I'm completely not sure what I said after I say it (BTW - that post had about a dozen revisions). :cheers:

Sometimes I'm not even sure how I know what I know. (Though in this case it's from far too many chemically oriented classes*)

Anyhow, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. :damnmate: (Though, I LMAO at the other comments in this thread regarding my 'epistle')

Point is, overprocessing is bad (possibly very bad)... what I learned in college convinced me that de-caf coffe is 'da debil' :coffee:






* I said chemically oriented classes not chemically oriented personal experiments :egg:

Take-a-knee
2006-09-06, 13:32
I took a college course many years ago with a woman whose husband was and accountant with a firm that did a lot of business with a LARGE soda bottling company based in Atlanta. Diet drinks were fairly new at the time. This woman said her husband had told her that getting rid of the chemical by-products (read hazardous waste) involved in the production of diet soda was their largest single expense...think about that.
When it comes to food, and processed food in particular, usually what is good for a company's bottom line is bad for your health. White flour was sold to the American public as "superior" to that old grainy "whole-wheat" flour that everyone had made do with for thousands of years. At the time, it was cheaper to remove the wheat germ before the flour was ground 'cause it gummed up the machinery in use at the time. Any food that contains "trans-fat" (the label will read partially hydrogenated before the type of oil it contains) is there because it preserves the food, giving it a longer and possibly indefinete shelf life...ever seen a twinkie spoil? The food companies know this stuff is poison but it helps their bottom line.

Just Jeff
2006-09-06, 15:07
Still interested if he's involved in selling the book. But even if he is, he's got lots of other posts here so I wouldn't say it's spam...just nice to know where people are coming from.

Frolicking Dino
2006-09-06, 18:29
I went back to eating mostly unprocessed foods as a result of being on the Protein Power diet for a couple of years. While my trail food takes a bit longer to cook than most, it is real food - my grits and grains are whole and highly processed ramen rarely makes it into the menu. I do use instant tators on the trail (everybody needs a fault :D).

I've found that a cooked cereal of whole grains gives me far more energy and stamina than 2-3 pouches of instant grits or oatmeal. Couscous fill my tummy longer and keep my energy level up better than white pasta or ramen. White rice :marchmell - well, I wouldn't eat that before I went to whole foods.

bird dog
2006-09-06, 21:46
Had a friend when I lived in Louisiana that was a rice farmer. Even he wouldnt eat white rice. I still do, but he swears that there are some nasty things in it! BD

Lanthar
2006-09-07, 11:46
Had a friend when I lived in Louisiana that was a rice farmer. Even he wouldnt eat white rice. I still do, but he swears that there are some nasty things in it! BD

Wow... I can't begin to explain how utterly disturbing I find that.

Take-a-knee
2006-09-07, 13:43
You need not worry about what is IN white rice, you should worry about what IS NOT in it, ie all the nutrition from the brown portion that has been removed to make it "better". Simple carbs will keep you alive, they won't keep you healthy.

atraildreamer
2006-09-10, 02:32
overprocessing salt? How can that be done? Salt is a pure substance. NaCl. Any changes due to "overprocessing to make it dangerous" is impossible. Are you involved in selling/writing this book? I've noticed that you've posted ads for it in several forums.

No...I am not involved in selling the book. I just posted the publisher info and price in case anyone wanted to buy it on their own, or get it from their local library, as I did.

With regards to salt, the author states that natural sea salt "is rich in minerals and trace elements,"...while "Typical commercial salt, by contrast, is an industrial leftover. First the chemical industry removes the valuable trace elements and heats it to 1200 degrees Farenheit. We get what's left: 100 percent sodium chloride, plus industrial additivies, including aluminum, anticaking agents...dextrose... salt is then bleached. Consuming pure sodium chloride strains the body, upsetting fluid balance, and dehydrating cells." This is just one of the many food topics she covers in her book.

I originally posted the info about this book on several forums because I thought that it would be of interest to backpackers, who seem to be more health concious than the majority of the general population.

Another eye-opening source of information regarding food is the video "Superize Me" about the man who lived on McDonald's food exclusively for 30 days. :pepsi: The resulting weight gain and related health problems he developed have given me a lot to think about with regards to my future food choices. :rolleyes: (NO...I am not selling this video either...I also got it at the library.)

Lanthar
2006-09-10, 18:15
Another eye-opening source of information regarding food is the video "Superize Me" about the man who lived on McDonald's food exclusively for 30 days. :pepsi: The resulting weight gain and related health problems he developed have given me a lot to think about with regards to my future food choices. :rolleyes: (NO...I am not selling this video either...I also got it at the library.)

That movie was... disturbing.

I read an article the other day that some university was replicating the study... don't know if I'd sign up for that one...

Thin air
2006-09-12, 12:14
You all might want to look up the book, Salt, which goes way back into the history of salt with both its food application and the effect salt has played in history. Who would have thought?
While I try to make good choices in what I eat, I do not worry too much about the salt end of it thinking of healthier foods. I am a baby boomer and have been eating various processed foods most of my life and am pretty healthy. While I do give creedence to the concern for proper nutrition, I am not way out on the fanatical end of things. Perhaps moderation might be a more sane approach than to get worried about salt.
Touching on the "twinkie" and its durability, one would think these might be a good way to do a food stash on a long hike, excepting for the innate desire most animals would also have to devour the said twinkies.

In our hiking fervor, we all look hard at the weight/size ratio and if someone would just come up with the dehydrated twinkie, then all would be well in the land of lightweight and tasty. Screw the nutrition part when you are booking the miles and energy and it is not the AT but only a few hours or days.

Anyway, the OP should read Salt and then get back to us.

Take-a-knee
2006-09-12, 13:00
Yes, the "twinkie factor" is a concern for backpackers, because a lot of the processed foods that a lot of us consume on the trail are loaded with hydrogenated fats, and the reason they are there is because they are a presevative, just like in the twinkie. LikeThin Air said, this may not be an issue on a few day hike/climb but it most definetely IS an issue for an AT thru-hiker.

TeeDee
2006-09-12, 18:33
Ahh - the twinkie.

When it originally came out and for many (many?) years, the filling was made from lard and sugar and a few other things to "lighten" the lard with more air.

Then to make it "healthier" they switched filling.

Don't really know if they succeeded or not though.

Kea
2006-09-12, 18:51
Okay, I ordered the book. I found out that her parents run a vegetable farm near me. She's not a vegetarian, and discusses the differences between real food and the stuff we get from the super market. I have 7 other diet plan books in my library, which I have been reading off and on for the last few weeks, and the more I have read all the diet plans and schemes around, the more I conclude that what she is advocating makes a lot of sense.

She's not a vegetarian, isn't really preaching organic farming per se, and some of what she is saying actually makes sense in terms of things that Ray Jardine, and June Fleming(The Well-Fed Backpacker) have put out. Plus, in terms of what Richard Fleming (Stop Inflamattion NOW!) has said about the contrast between 'real food' and processed food, it's actually really close to a process of eating that would work for normal people who are willing to do a little extra cooking.

I think that it would dovetail with a short-term hiking plan pretty well, especially if you were building your own meals.

My 2 cents. The hype made me skeptical and I am happy that I read it. :)

GregH
2006-09-12, 22:29
I'll be interested in your review of the book, too. This is an interesting thread, especially for those of us who are "experienced" (read:old) hikers!

fvital
2006-09-13, 12:07
Here is her bio (the author) from the publisher's site. A lot of good degees and med/nutrition experience. Looks like she writes books to promote her buisness of starting and running Farmer's markets.

from the site.

Nina Planck created farmers’ markets in London and Washington, D.C., and ran New York City’s famous Greenmarket. She wrote The Farmers’ Market Cookbook and has starred in a series on local foods on British television.

Kamen
2006-09-15, 01:16
Before I post this, I want to make it clear I know absoltuely nothing about what I'm talking about. I got curious at the mention of a healthier salt alternative and did a web search on potassium chloride. What I found here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride
http://www.vitaminworld.com/vf/healthnotes/HN_live/Drug/Potassium_Chloride.htm

does not lead me to believe it is healthier, or even healthy. In fact it could be fatal. I most certainly will not be purchasing the advertised book.

Take-a-knee
2006-09-15, 08:49
Kamen, there was nothing in those two links about KCL that should have alarmed you. Yes, a large infusion of IV potassium will cause a fatal arrythmia, so will not having enough potassium because it is essential electrolyte for life, just like sodium. If you keep your weight under control and take care of your kidneys (IE proper nutrition and lots of pure water) you don't need to worry about either salt or potassium. You body will take care of the proper balance as long as you take care of your body.

Just Jeff
2006-09-15, 10:27
"Protein poisoning" gets 2090 Google hits. Guess you'd better stop putting protein into your body, too. :biggrin:

And drinking too much water can be fatal, as well...it dilutes your electrolytes so much that neurons can't fire or something like that. Most common in elite atheletes, but can happen to anyone. Better quit putting water in your body.

And of course that demon alkyhol is poison... :beer:

Lanthar
2006-09-15, 13:05
Kamen, there was nothing in those two links about KCL that should have alarmed you. Yes, a large infusion of IV potassium will cause a fatal arrythmia, so will not having enough potassium because it is essential electrolyte for life, just like sodium. If you keep your weight under control and take care of your kidneys (IE proper nutrition and lots of pure water) you don't need to worry about either salt or potassium. You body will take care of the proper balance as long as you take care of your body.

Ditto, potassium in bananas is what helps prevent cramps... most people OD on sodium and UD on potassium. Cases of KCl OD are very unheard of.

Kamen, why don't you do a similar search on NaCl and / or NaI... you'll find just as psots that are just as 'disturbing' on what it can be used for in industrial applications...

deadeye
2006-09-15, 14:18
However, realize that there is a much healthier alternative in KCl (potassium chloride).

Unless, of course, you have a problem with metabolizing potassium and thereby wind up with potentially life-threatening excess blood potassium levels! :afraid:

We can all be totally overwhelmed with the diet fad-du-jour, and popular opinion of what's good for you changes all the time. Therefore, rather than be overcome with dietetic paranoia, I stick with a couple of basics:

1) everthing in moderation, 2)the closer to the source (i.e. locally grown if possible, and the least processing possible, etc.), the better


my two cents :beer:

Kea
2006-09-15, 15:10
I think that the issue with both KCl and NaCl is really that pure salts of any kind are potentially harmful. A mixed salt, like sea salts and a few other salt products on the market are an aggregate of multiple salt compounds, are much 'safer' because they aren't one compound. Thus, they provide a broader range of trace minerals, especially when the ions are freed from the chlorine(which generally winds up as stomach acid)

Lanthar
2006-09-15, 18:21
1) everthing in moderation, 2)the closer to the source (i.e. locally grown if possible, and the least processing possible, etc.), the better

I completely agree.

Which is why I always drink local when I'm travelling.
:beer:

Just Jeff
2006-09-15, 19:06
Which is why I always drink local when I'm travelling.

That's the best thing about traveling through Europe - every restaurant in Italy (the non-touristy parts, anyway) has its own house wine. And you could probably spend a month in Germany and have a different beer at every restaurant you ate at.

Best beer I ever had - a Belgian beer at the Russian Pub in Vicenza, Italy, where all the Americans hung out.

deadeye
2006-09-15, 22:08
Yep, I'll drink to that!

Cheers! :beer:

sailingsoul
2006-10-12, 00:17
Didn't Ronold Reagan use salt? He died and is still dead. That's it "no more salt".

KLeth
2006-10-12, 01:20
And you could probably spend a month in Germany and have a different beer at every restaurant you ate at.
A month would barely cover Munich, Bavaria :beer: :biggrin:

Belguim has the world highest factor of breweries/inhabitant. The trip of Death (Bornem march 100km march in 25hours) is not just called The Trip of Death due to the distance . . . . :beer:

fvital
2006-10-12, 11:40
And you could probably spend a month in Germany and have a different beer at every restaurant you ate at.

.


Including McDonalds!!!