JAK
2007-01-02, 13:23
What items do you try and keep compact?
What items do you allow to take up more space?
Where in you pack or on your body do you carry stuff?
If you carried a small hobo stove, where would you carry it?
My clothes don't take up too much space because I tend to keep my heavy sweater on and everything else tends to be very packable, and usually finds a place inside or outside the pack as an afterthought. My sleeping gear and shelter I have mixed feelings about. It tends to take up a lot of volume but doesn't really require the backpack to be all that strong, unless I use the backpack or stuff bags to compress it. My current preferance is to carry all this stuff in a lightweight but high volume backpack of a simple trash can type design with just one opening on the top. I am a great believer in blue foam pads but they do take up a lot of volume and they can be awkward even though they are not heavy. My current thinking is to have them the same width as the backpack is in height, and have them cut up into pieces to fit around the sides and back on the inside of the backpack. For my small daypack which is big enough for daytrips in winter and short 2-3 day excursions in summer I am able to fit two pieces of 16"x24" for 16"x48" overall, which is not big enough really. I would like the daypack to be bigger and lighter but I like its simple design.
My navigation/water/cooking/firstaid/repair items I would prefer to have in a small pack in front attached to the backpack by the shoulder straps and a waist strap, but not a hip belt as long as I keep the total weight down. The total weight depends mostly on how much food I carry. In winter I might avoid a hip belt by using a sled instead. I like two water bottles, one on each shoulder strap or on the sides of the front pack. The other items, particularly the cooking stuff, I have not been able to workout a suitably compact arangement for. I burn wood fuel where I hike, and this makes the nesting and packing of the stove a little more complicated. I carry a few items in my pockets, usually on a lanyard, but I would also like a place for them in this pack also. My gut currently takes up some of the space where this pack would go, but I would like to replace my gut with a front pack in due course. The main things I like about this approach is it allows the straps to be worn looser and when I stop I can sit on the backpack and access everything I need in the front pack, and also get at everything in the front pack even without stopping. The limitation is once you are carrying much more than 25 pounds I think your spine is better off if you put everything on your back with a slight lean forward to put more weight on your hips, but I don't thing a traditional backpack makes sense if you are only carrying 15 pounds, especially a traditional backpack that might weigh 5 pounds alone. As food goes, the food I carry is usually fairly dense, like honey, and raisins/nuts, but some of it is a little less dense, like oatmeal, and skim milk powder. I would like it to be evenly distributed such that the less dense stuff in in the backpack and the more dense stuff is in the front pack, in keeping with the overall theme. I think on average my food takes up about 1-2 litre per day, and about 1-2 pounds per day, with more dense food chosen for longer trips, especially in winter.
As far as backpack dimensions go, the simplest daypacks seem to go from the small of your back up to your shoulders, but to extend down further they need to curve out with you spine, and so you would need to add some complexity and the weight of a hip belt one you intend to carry more volume or more weight on your back. If the simple daypack extends upwards it tends to angle back, which is OK because it allows you to tilt your head back, but eventually the weight up there is cumbersome, even if it is not that dense. It is debatable whether it might be better to leave this space for stuff to be added on the outside, or incorporated as additional volume on the inside. I am hoping to keep the weight and volume and complexity down by using the front pack. I have used a large fanny pack for this and it worked well but I thinkg it was heavier than it needs to be and some of the paddding and strapping was redundant with the backpack. I am aiming for a backpack of a simple box shape, large enough to fit a 72" blue foam pad, perhaps two in winter but in winter I might have a sled. I like a 28"wide pad in winter, to avoid condensation in contact with cold ground if I roll around, but I might get it down to 24". This makes for a pack 24" high, which I think I have room for on my back without getting down to the curve of the spine. The width I would like to keep narrow enough for cross country skiing, which is 14" for me I think. To do the 72" in two lengths this means the pack would be 11" deep. The total volume would then be 24"x14"x11"= 3696 ci. One 72"x24"x3/8" pad would take up 648ci. I could carry 2-4 36"x24"x3/8" pads depending on the season. Anyhow, this still seems to leave plenty of volume, especially as it would probably bulge out some. Since the stuff in the pack would be low density I don't thing the back would need padding, but I could add some later and the pack could also serve as the pad for my lower legs. The front pack I am not sure of dimensions yet. For the front pack dimensions space is somewhat more limited, but there is a lot more space there than many people realize, unless you are doing serious climbing. I think the critical consideration for hikers is that it is important to be able to see your toes of your forward foot when you place it, if only out of the corner of your eye. This is not just so you don't trip, but also just to make walking easier. Uphill it is easy to keep an eye on your feet. It is when walking downhill that it might be harder to see where you are stepping if there is something in the way. Still, I think something as thick a 4" at the middle of your chest is not too thick, and this can increase to 6" or even 8" at you gut unless your gut has aready filled the available space. For width I would like to remain within 14" again, but when not cross country skiing I have found that you can actually carry a 28" wide sleeping pad there very comfortably, and it make a good elbow rest while hiking. I would like to try a front pack something like 12"tall, 6" wide, 6" deep, with two 4" water bottle holsters on the sides. This is a volume of 432ci, plus the two water bottles. Some items, might nest in with the water bottles or take their place. I am not sure how well everything I want would fit in there, and what subcompartments or pockets or fasteners might be handy. A lot depends on the dimensions of the stove and pots and first aid and repair kit and so on. It would seem however that it might be useful if some of these kits were square rather than cylindrical. The other alternative might be to carry the water and food in the square middle of this front pack and use the side hosters for stove and other kits in round tins. Getting back to the design of a woodstove/windscreen for such a system, and the various pots and firestarters and whatnot that go with it, I have not yet worked out whether it is better to have the stove collapseable or to have stuff nest inside of it.
Final question to ponder? When carrying hot water in cold weather, as I sometimes do, like in a wineskin or flask, are there some parts of the body it is better to carry hot water next to. Are there some parts of the body to avoid. I have found it comfortable to have water on the sides, in front. On the other hand I have found it uncomfortable to have hot water, or cold water, against the kidneys or the solar plexus. This would favour the idea of a front pack with the water bottles on the sides and general items in the center. You really don't really want anything too solid against your solar plexus however. The design of a wood burning stove depends a lot on how and where you intend to pack it, for easy access, but also comfortable carrying. Another argument for simple alcohol stoves perhaps, but I would still end up making a few wood fires, which leaves the question open as to the best outfit for a small wood stove, even as a backup. Also, not sure where I would want to put my hatchet, when I carry it. I guess you always need a spot for something extra.
The other thing that throws a wrench into the works is packing a bike if you combing biking with hiking. The bike seems to have even less volume available, and forces you to divide things up evenly in both weight and volume, and split it side to side rather than back to front. Perhaps the backpack and frontpacks need to be split down the centre, and then clipped onto the bike somehow, left and right.
What items do you allow to take up more space?
Where in you pack or on your body do you carry stuff?
If you carried a small hobo stove, where would you carry it?
My clothes don't take up too much space because I tend to keep my heavy sweater on and everything else tends to be very packable, and usually finds a place inside or outside the pack as an afterthought. My sleeping gear and shelter I have mixed feelings about. It tends to take up a lot of volume but doesn't really require the backpack to be all that strong, unless I use the backpack or stuff bags to compress it. My current preferance is to carry all this stuff in a lightweight but high volume backpack of a simple trash can type design with just one opening on the top. I am a great believer in blue foam pads but they do take up a lot of volume and they can be awkward even though they are not heavy. My current thinking is to have them the same width as the backpack is in height, and have them cut up into pieces to fit around the sides and back on the inside of the backpack. For my small daypack which is big enough for daytrips in winter and short 2-3 day excursions in summer I am able to fit two pieces of 16"x24" for 16"x48" overall, which is not big enough really. I would like the daypack to be bigger and lighter but I like its simple design.
My navigation/water/cooking/firstaid/repair items I would prefer to have in a small pack in front attached to the backpack by the shoulder straps and a waist strap, but not a hip belt as long as I keep the total weight down. The total weight depends mostly on how much food I carry. In winter I might avoid a hip belt by using a sled instead. I like two water bottles, one on each shoulder strap or on the sides of the front pack. The other items, particularly the cooking stuff, I have not been able to workout a suitably compact arangement for. I burn wood fuel where I hike, and this makes the nesting and packing of the stove a little more complicated. I carry a few items in my pockets, usually on a lanyard, but I would also like a place for them in this pack also. My gut currently takes up some of the space where this pack would go, but I would like to replace my gut with a front pack in due course. The main things I like about this approach is it allows the straps to be worn looser and when I stop I can sit on the backpack and access everything I need in the front pack, and also get at everything in the front pack even without stopping. The limitation is once you are carrying much more than 25 pounds I think your spine is better off if you put everything on your back with a slight lean forward to put more weight on your hips, but I don't thing a traditional backpack makes sense if you are only carrying 15 pounds, especially a traditional backpack that might weigh 5 pounds alone. As food goes, the food I carry is usually fairly dense, like honey, and raisins/nuts, but some of it is a little less dense, like oatmeal, and skim milk powder. I would like it to be evenly distributed such that the less dense stuff in in the backpack and the more dense stuff is in the front pack, in keeping with the overall theme. I think on average my food takes up about 1-2 litre per day, and about 1-2 pounds per day, with more dense food chosen for longer trips, especially in winter.
As far as backpack dimensions go, the simplest daypacks seem to go from the small of your back up to your shoulders, but to extend down further they need to curve out with you spine, and so you would need to add some complexity and the weight of a hip belt one you intend to carry more volume or more weight on your back. If the simple daypack extends upwards it tends to angle back, which is OK because it allows you to tilt your head back, but eventually the weight up there is cumbersome, even if it is not that dense. It is debatable whether it might be better to leave this space for stuff to be added on the outside, or incorporated as additional volume on the inside. I am hoping to keep the weight and volume and complexity down by using the front pack. I have used a large fanny pack for this and it worked well but I thinkg it was heavier than it needs to be and some of the paddding and strapping was redundant with the backpack. I am aiming for a backpack of a simple box shape, large enough to fit a 72" blue foam pad, perhaps two in winter but in winter I might have a sled. I like a 28"wide pad in winter, to avoid condensation in contact with cold ground if I roll around, but I might get it down to 24". This makes for a pack 24" high, which I think I have room for on my back without getting down to the curve of the spine. The width I would like to keep narrow enough for cross country skiing, which is 14" for me I think. To do the 72" in two lengths this means the pack would be 11" deep. The total volume would then be 24"x14"x11"= 3696 ci. One 72"x24"x3/8" pad would take up 648ci. I could carry 2-4 36"x24"x3/8" pads depending on the season. Anyhow, this still seems to leave plenty of volume, especially as it would probably bulge out some. Since the stuff in the pack would be low density I don't thing the back would need padding, but I could add some later and the pack could also serve as the pad for my lower legs. The front pack I am not sure of dimensions yet. For the front pack dimensions space is somewhat more limited, but there is a lot more space there than many people realize, unless you are doing serious climbing. I think the critical consideration for hikers is that it is important to be able to see your toes of your forward foot when you place it, if only out of the corner of your eye. This is not just so you don't trip, but also just to make walking easier. Uphill it is easy to keep an eye on your feet. It is when walking downhill that it might be harder to see where you are stepping if there is something in the way. Still, I think something as thick a 4" at the middle of your chest is not too thick, and this can increase to 6" or even 8" at you gut unless your gut has aready filled the available space. For width I would like to remain within 14" again, but when not cross country skiing I have found that you can actually carry a 28" wide sleeping pad there very comfortably, and it make a good elbow rest while hiking. I would like to try a front pack something like 12"tall, 6" wide, 6" deep, with two 4" water bottle holsters on the sides. This is a volume of 432ci, plus the two water bottles. Some items, might nest in with the water bottles or take their place. I am not sure how well everything I want would fit in there, and what subcompartments or pockets or fasteners might be handy. A lot depends on the dimensions of the stove and pots and first aid and repair kit and so on. It would seem however that it might be useful if some of these kits were square rather than cylindrical. The other alternative might be to carry the water and food in the square middle of this front pack and use the side hosters for stove and other kits in round tins. Getting back to the design of a woodstove/windscreen for such a system, and the various pots and firestarters and whatnot that go with it, I have not yet worked out whether it is better to have the stove collapseable or to have stuff nest inside of it.
Final question to ponder? When carrying hot water in cold weather, as I sometimes do, like in a wineskin or flask, are there some parts of the body it is better to carry hot water next to. Are there some parts of the body to avoid. I have found it comfortable to have water on the sides, in front. On the other hand I have found it uncomfortable to have hot water, or cold water, against the kidneys or the solar plexus. This would favour the idea of a front pack with the water bottles on the sides and general items in the center. You really don't really want anything too solid against your solar plexus however. The design of a wood burning stove depends a lot on how and where you intend to pack it, for easy access, but also comfortable carrying. Another argument for simple alcohol stoves perhaps, but I would still end up making a few wood fires, which leaves the question open as to the best outfit for a small wood stove, even as a backup. Also, not sure where I would want to put my hatchet, when I carry it. I guess you always need a spot for something extra.
The other thing that throws a wrench into the works is packing a bike if you combing biking with hiking. The bike seems to have even less volume available, and forces you to divide things up evenly in both weight and volume, and split it side to side rather than back to front. Perhaps the backpack and frontpacks need to be split down the centre, and then clipped onto the bike somehow, left and right.