PDA

View Full Version : swamp camping



shooter
2007-01-30, 15:40
i backpack out of a pirogue ,as i live in louisiana there is no shortage of water ways.i
am an avid flyfisher i couple my camping and fishing.
i saw a few post on kayaks,i have buddy thet uses a kayak,not much room though,but a good boat.
is there anyone here that camps out of boats.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep

Take-a-knee
2007-01-30, 15:54
I just bought a sit-on-top kayak, and Emotion Mojo, for running rivers and fishing. If I lived where you do I'd get a big sit-on-top like a Ocean Kayak Big Game or a Malibu Explorer or on of there larger ones. The bigger and wider, the more stable it will be, also the more work it will be to paddle it. Whatever you buy, get one big enough to store and access all your gear. There are lots of good kayak fishing forums with articles on how to rig them, they are usually oriented towards saltwater so weigh their advice against what you'll be doing. Look for reviews at paddling.net also.

shooter
2007-01-30, 17:28
i use a pirogue it is a small boat endiginous to louisiana,it is not too good for rugh open water,but is great fot the swamps here,with their abundant backwaters with tember of cypress and tupelo gum.
i build these boats out of wood myself as they are getting harder and harder to find here,although you can find them made from fiberglass the wooden pirogues are very hard to find.
do you camp from your kayak,my buddy does although with him and his pack there is not much room to spare.
i find backpacking from a boat allowes you to set up a substantial base camp to pack out of.

Nature was here a series of wonders, and a fund of delight.
Daniel Boone

Mutinousdoug
2007-01-30, 17:31
Shooter,
While there are a few paddlers here, you might look at "SouthernPaddler.com" They are a boat dedicated site out of Florida that hosts a bunch of boat builder/campers with a dedicated page for pirogues.
Sgt Krohn posts here on occasion; he boats out of Houston or some other godawful backwater and I try to get out once or twice a year in my canoe for a couple of days in Colorado.

shooter
2007-01-30, 17:39
i will take a look thanks mutinousdoug.


Curiosity is natural to the soul of man and interesting objects have a powerful influence on our affections.
Daniel Boone

jazilla
2007-01-31, 14:27
Shooter, I am looking at getting a Pirogue. One out of fiberglass. I would have one already if it weren't for my wife making me wait till spring.

Turk
2007-01-31, 14:51
I do alot of river tripping/bushwacking. Small kayaks. (7ft7" Necky Crux - for whitewater. Just picked up an Ocean Kayak Frenzy SOT for shallow inland lakes and swamps).

Seriously check out the features in the OC Frenzy. It is a well hidden gem amoung what most consider a strictly recreational SOT kayak company.

Short and lightweight if you have to carry it long distances.
Ample storage areas bow and stern to lash gear/backpack. A lightweight
packer could easily do unsupported month+ trips.

Rides high in the water, mostly flat bottomed, with a small keel. A really GOOD compromise between stability/displacement/and straight line tracking.

Made whitewater tough. Drag it, grind over rocks, slam it around, beat it up. They can take a pounding. Not like fragile ultralight watercraft.

Lastly, the frenzy is designed for breaking ocean surf. It will punch waves, and remain stable riding parallel on the face. These same features give it very respectable whitewater capability for river running.


Check it out anyways. I am really happy with my purchase and plan to get a second before May.

shooter
2007-02-05, 11:57
jazilla, the fiberglass pirogues have less upkeep,although i find they can not take the load that wood can.
but as long as you stay in the 12' range you should be ok. my boat has a trolling moter with stick steering,but i can also paddle as the motor kicks up in the back.
if you are heading up my way give me a hollar. i fish and camp chicot lake ,that is just north of ville platte .
email chinkkikker@yahoo

shooter
2007-02-05, 12:25
turk
looks like you got the boat bug as bad as me,the sot kayak works ok here,but you really need sides where i go.
the snakes and gators will crawl right in with you if you are not careful.packing the loads i do to set up base camp it takes a boat with sides to handle the loads.
my boat is 11'4" with a 24" bottom the sides are 11.5" the beam width is 30.5" that gives a 30 degree pitch on the side,both ends are the same with a 50 degree nose angle.
the old french people called this boat a sharp,beacuse of the sharp noses.
it was made for padeling the swamps and back waters.
the more you load a properly made perogue the more stable it gets,as i said it is not a rough water boat,but man does it shine in the backwater swamps.
a old (cajun) showed me how to buld them,it takes a little time to get it right but worth the effort.
i have never done any whitewater but it sure looks like fun.
gators bite. shooter

ChristianRider
2007-02-07, 04:04
Hey Shooter
I've been camping a few times in Honey Island Swamp in a Pirogue, for everybody not from Louisiana it's pronounced pee-row lol...

I love La.

I've done some white water rafting, in Tenn, Colorado, camping on the shore and near broken down mines on the hill sides, it's really gorgeous, but in the same way the gators bite in La. be careful if you drift through bear country.

shooter
2007-02-07, 09:32
rider
spent some time in washington state ,around the sound,a few bears and beautiful country,some time on the colorado river in arizona not much rough water though.For centuries a legend has haunted the Honey Island Swamp. A legend passed on from generation to generation. A legend of a huge creature, neither man nor beast, which lives in the deep cypress shadows of the Louisiana bayou. A creature that must, by every definition of the word, be considered a monster.
gators don't climb trees.

Take-a-knee
2007-02-08, 17:06
Shooter, in my opinion, you are better off with a Sit on top kayak in snake country than a pirouge or canoe. If a critter drops into the latter, it is in fact INSIDE the boat. Not so with a SOT kayak. Also, with a SOT, you can unass in a hurry, faster than any other boat. Your gear is stored in the hold, nice and dry. You can right and reenter the boat in open water, try that with a canoe. If I was worried about gators, I'd have a 9mm Glock in a crossdraw holster. A glock will work safely(9mm only) underwater, and can be modified to cycle underwater.

Iceman
2007-02-09, 00:30
Trained personnel who use Glocks underwater know they must obey several rules:
1) use only a Glock Model 17 with amphibious spring cups (reliability issue);
2) use only 9mm FMJ subsonic, sealed primer ammo;
3) completely immerse the pistol and get *all* the air out of the barrel;
4) wear protective ear plugs, gloves, wet suit, face mask, etc.;
5) do not fire near solid objects or in enclosed spaces to prevent return
concussion.

Sounds like a good reason not to try this. I would try shooting the mfing gator from above the water.

Man, Takeaknee, you made me google underwater Glocks... I was thinking bs... just doesnt seem right...still... :biggrin:

Take-a-knee
2007-02-09, 09:49
Ice, I agree, I wouldn't try firing a Glock underwater...unless a gator was doing a death spin with me, think the safety caveats could be dispensed with at that point. We've had a population explosion of alligators in the south and, just like bears, some people are stupid enough to feed them, with the same results. I've been told that Glock won't sell those spring cups so you have to modify the standard ones with a 3-corner file. The gun will still fire, it may not cycle without the mod. All quality ammo has sealed primers. I love my Glock 17. I attended Randy Cain's Practical Rifle class last weekend in FL and we were doing transitions and two guys there had 1911's that were constantly jamming, the glocks just keep going bang.

Mutinousdoug
2007-02-09, 15:21
YEARs ago one of the gun rags did a feature on shooting the 1911 under water (this had to be early 80's) May have been to promote Randall or one of the other then new SST govt models. Anyhow, the article had a bunch of pictures of shooting the .45 underwater. I don't remember if the action cycled or not (I'd think cycling would be unaffected), but the bullet left a soot trail across the swimming pool they were testing it in. Looked like it may have been an effective defense tool for about 5-10 ft.
I understand 'gators and crocs are notoriously slow to respond to tissue disruption except to their central nervous system, so "aim small".

jazilla
2007-02-09, 15:34
Do you get very wet paddling on a SOT. Can you use a SOT for 4 season paddling?

Turk
2007-02-09, 17:16
Depending on the design of the SOT.... you can get VERY wet.
Look for scupper holes. Any SOT with scupper holes will get you wet.
SOT's designed for WW or ocean swells need the scuppers, but for most
other water conditions scupper hole plugs work quite well.

Also thought I would make a note on seats with SOT's. In my experience every SOT kayak designed for surf or WW should not be combined with a full seat. Just a backrest. Reason being, the seats soak and hold water, unless you a very lucky to find a closed cell foam seat, or other high density foam seat. They also raise you up another inch or more. In some boat designs, this is not desirable or makes thigh brace/general seating comfort issues.

Personal recommendation.. Get a GOOD backrest. And cut your own sit pad, from a cheap wally world underpad. Its waterproof, much thinner and gives your butt ample insulation.

Take-a-knee
2007-02-09, 23:05
The lower the cockpit in a SOT kayak, the more stable it will be, everything is a tradeoff. Ocean Kayak designs theirs low,and they are stable, they do tend to hold a little water. The guys I know who use them are fishermen, and if it is cold enough to need waders to wade and fish, they just wear them in the kayak. If you flip, you'll need a paddling shirt, or better yet, a dry top (the latter has neoprene gaskets at the wrists and neck and a double closure at the waist, to keep your waders from filling up. Obviously waterproof breathable fabrics are desireable for both garments. This is covered in depth on some of the kayak fishing forums, most of which are oriented towards inshore saltwater fishing.

TeeDee
2007-02-11, 20:40
Hey Turk - I'll bet you would enjoy one of these - if for no other reason than the workmanship the guy puts into them

http://www.shamankayaks.com/shaman/

They are tough too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyvIExWkqU

dropkick
2007-02-12, 01:34
Saw two episodes of Myth Busters dealing with weapons and water (also visited their website and read more).
One about firing into the water the other firing under the water.

Unlike what you would probably think, the faster the round the less distance it traveled underwater.
They disintegrated to nothing and lost all momentum almost immediately.

Rifles were almost completely useless, most of the pistols were pretty close to that.
The only weapon they used that was at all effective (firing into the water, not underwater) was a shotgun firing a slug. -Slow and a lot of mass.

With almost all the weapons you could have been 5 feet away from it and have been perfectly safe.
With most the safe distance was less than a foot.

With some weapons the round didn't even get out the barrel underwater (both rifle and pistol).

I would rather have a good knife if I was fighting a gator underwater.

edited in: As luck would have it I just saw the start of the episode about shooting into the water - I had missed the start before - and I found out that a 9mm is more effective than I thought. It was good to around 5 feet of depth. When fired INTO the water. The rifles were still useless.

JPW
2007-02-12, 16:35
Shooter, I used to do a lot of canoe camping. I did a 100 mile trip in Wisconson back in 69. Ive been wanting to build a pirogue with a cut down adarondak chair. Iam an old fart now and am trying to come up with something more comfortable than my one man canoe( and a little more stable).

CanoeBlue
2007-02-13, 22:38
I am now 60 so may even classify as an old fart and I still prefer canoes for camping - and I cover considerable distances in them.

I do have a couple of kayaks (Current Designs Solstice and a Sit-On-Top) - but I never got to like kayaks for any kind of distance paddling or camping because I find them 1.) Wet - that can be a problem in Canada 2.) crampy - don't like sitting with my legs out too straight anymore 3.) difficult to get in to and out of because of the low sitting position 4.) a nuisance on the portage trail because of difficulties with makeshift yokes and gear that has to go in to and come out of - small hatches - which means that 5.) I can't just toss a pack full of gear in to them and go like I can with a canoe.

I camp by myself a lot and I prefer solo canoes. My solo canoes range in weight from 26# to 62#, my favourite for reasonable water is a Bell Wildfire that weighs in at 34# and is seaworthy enough to take me almost anywhere I wish to go. I also paddle a Bell Royalex Northwind, which I purchased as a tandem but find that it is a really nice, large and stable solo as well. For big water I paddle a Kruger Sea Wind rigged with a sail and that canoe will handle far bigger water than I ever have any intention of ever paddling. I have, however, had it on Georgian Bay (part of Lake Huron) in six ft. swells - quite a ride and that was big enough for me.

Also, don't overlook the possibilities of poling canoes - It is quite common in Maine and would work well in shallow swamps but certainly is not restricted to that - the ACA poling championships are held in Class IV rapids.

Some of the best solo canoes on the planet are made by Bell in Minnesota - check them out at www.bellcanoe.com - I have no financial interest in Bell canoes, just wish that I did.

Take-a-knee
2007-02-13, 22:51
Canoeblue, I also have a Bell Wildfire but mine is royalex so it weighs about 43# I think. I love that boat but I think a SOT kayak is a better fishing/drifting boat because it is so easy to get in and out of it. It can be a wet ride, but that it what they make waders and dry tops for. If I lived in canada, I probably wouldn't say that. I will freely admit that canoes have a romance factor that no kayak can match.

JAK
2007-02-14, 21:29
I camp out of a kayak on the St. John River. I have paddled on the Bay of Fundy also, but haven't done any overnights up or down the coast yet. I would need to get into somewhat better paddling shape and get the boat a bit more watertight. I carry the same gear as for hiking, plus wet suit clothing for cold water, and 4 blue foam pads instead of just the one, and a gallon of water. There is more volume and carrying capacity, but I think it is still safer not to carry more weight than neccessary.

The pirogue is a very interesting craft. I would like to build one.

Sgt.Krohn
2007-02-18, 23:30
Shooter-
I have what is considered a short, wide tandem recreational kayak. It has a large open cockpit but does have a lip for a spray skirt (solo).
The model I have is a Kevlar composite version of the Pamlico from Wilderness Systems.
When I bought it the first thing I did was take the rear seat out of it and set it up as a permanent solo. Think of it as a stationwagon. I use it for fishing- primarily the coastal bay areas of Texas. I also use it to duck hunt out of. I have also run it in the 260-mile Texas Water Safari (from SanMarcos to Seadrift on the coast).
As a solo boat it weighs 47#. It has a flip over FeatherCraft style rudder. It does an easy 5mph with a kayak paddle or a steady 4˝mph with a canoe paddle.
WildernessSystems also makes poly plastic versions of the Pamlico but they are at least 20# heavier than my Kevlar model. It’s also available in fiberglass (about 8# heavier).
The boat is unbelievably stable. I have never turned it over. But I have swamped it running it out through the surf in 3’+ waves and swamped it in Cottonseed Rapids during the Texas Water Safari in 2000. Since it has kayak floatation bags in the bow and the stern this wasn’t a problem. I bailed and pumped it out in the surf and just dumped it out downriver from the rapids during the race.

Here’s a link to the Pamlico models on the Wilderness Systems website.
My model was called the Pamlico Lite when I bought it back in '99. They call it the Pamlico Pro now.
http://www.wildernesssystems.com/category.asp?id=1

http://tinypic.com/i3i7hy.jpg

http://i5.tinypic.com/23j1j6w.jpg

http://tinypic.com/eqrp02.jpg

http://tinypic.com/iqfq7n.jpg

this is a link to a series of photos that I posted on TexasKayakFisherman (where I usually hang out as CaptJack) that shows the normal gear I keep in the boat
http://tinyurl.com/ycp9yo

When I'm river camping (or marsh) where there are trees to swing a hammock, I use a modified Hennessy hammock
http://tinypic.com/afdbis.jpg

Iceman
2007-02-20, 18:18
Sgt Krohn, I really like your boat in duck mode, sure looks like it can carry a ton. What is the rated capacity of a boat like this?

Take-a-knee
2007-02-20, 19:05
Krohn, that is a sweet boat. The only down side to it I can see is, if you dump it in open water, you'll need a paddle float and a pump to right it. That is just a matter of prep and planning. Getting back inside shouldn't be any harder than a SOT. I would consider some flotation bags if you don't already have them, maybe some little pointed ones in each end. The upside to your selection is a very light boat for what it will carry. It looks like it would be simple to rig a removeable carry yoke to portage with.

Sgt.Krohn
2007-02-20, 23:48
Sgt Krohn, I really like your boat in duck mode, sure looks like it can carry a ton. What is the rated capacity of a boat like this?
http://i18.tinypic.com/2lc5kwj.jpg


Krohn, that is a sweet boat. The only down side to it I can see is, if you dump it in open water, you'll need a paddle float and a pump to right it. That is just a matter of prep and planning. Getting back inside shouldn't be any harder than a SOT. I would consider some flotation bags if you don't already have them, maybe some little pointed ones in each end. The upside to your selection is a very light boat for what it will carry. It looks like it would be simple to rig a removeable carry yoke to portage with.
It comes with the pointed floatation bags in the ends

Iceman
2007-02-21, 10:14
Looks like I need to go on a diet, or get a tugboat.

Sgt.Krohn
2007-02-21, 13:47
Looks like I need to go on a diet, or get a tugboat.
??? It's a tandem boat that carrys 400#
are you that big ???

I'm 6'5" / 260# and I carry all the gear (too much) that I ever need.....

GGS
2007-02-21, 17:28
Looks like I need to go on a diet, or get a tugboat.

(lol) Iceman, you and I both!!

Now if that thing could hold me while suspended by both ends between two picnic tables then I would really be impressed.

This gives me some ideas, tho. I camp/canoe with a black lab with an inflatable canoe. I would like to get a hard shell kayak of sorts. Problem is a one person kayak has no room for the dog (and not much for equipment) and a two person kayak is really designed to be paddled with two people, neither seat is positioned for optimal paddling with one person.

If I could build my own, now I can build a large kayak with me in the middle, equipment behind me, and a dog seat in front of me. And I'm guessing that one could be built lighter and cheaper than your store bought fiberglass models... Just a guess tho...

The other idea I had was to build a canoe or kayak with one or two bulkheads where the craft could be seperated at the bulkheads for transportation and/or storage.

Sgt.Krohn
2007-02-21, 17:38
If you'll look at the top view of the Pamlico notice the front seat- it slides forward for tandem paddlers and back to where it is in my boat for a solo paddler. When I bought mine I took the back seat out and permanently put my seat in the solo position. I also ordered mine without the rudder installed. They have dual slider footbraces for the front paddler for the two positions and footbraces for the rear seat. I didn't want all the holes drilled in the side of the boat for all the footbrace sliders. And I'm 6'5" so I wanted the slider brackets mounted to where they fit me the best after I positioned the seat. So when I got it I mounted the slider brackets and the rudder myself. Now I only have two holes on each side for the single slider bracket on each side.

CanoeCamper
2007-02-21, 21:42
IMHO a canoe is the way to go!
You have tons of room for gear and coolers and 1-3 friends (if wanted, and depending on the size of your canoe). If you want to go solo just turn it around and sit in the front seat facing the rear of the boat (assuming it's a symmetrical canoe).
I'm 6'5", 210# and use an old Grumman 17'6" aluminum canoe most of the time. It weighs in at 65# and can carry 900#+ load while only drafting about 4"-6" of water. In other words me, a friend, all our gear (including chairs), both of our coolers, and whatever else we want. AND the more you load it the more stable it becomes.
There are better canoes available made out of better and lighter materials if portaging is an issue. Basically you need to have a "shallow arch" hull for a good speed/stability ratio; aluminum is worry-proof, plastics are "slicker" on and off of rocks, composites are lightest to portage. Take your pick and enjoy.

Iceman
2007-02-21, 23:21
??? It's a tandem boat that carrys 400#
are you that big ???

I'm 6'5" / 260# and I carry all the gear (too much) that I ever need.....

Not yet. But, load my over 300 lb frame into a boat, toss in a whole schlittload of gear including shotgun, deke's, shells, coffee, and lunch, and it's getting close. I had read of getting one of those "sunfish" sailboat/trainers and rigging it up for swamp ducking. Same set up, tilt back plywood seat, sit on the floor, etc... Haven't found one yet...

shooter
2007-02-22, 15:05
krohn one sweeeet looking rigg,i custom build my perogues for camping and fishing,although i do some hunting from them. i have used a kayak a few times ,a 12 footer,paddles great.
i have a 43 lb. thrust motor guide on my perogue,with stick steering.
the motor is mounted on the stern,i also have decks for and aft.
i can kick up the motor and paddle no problem.
the sides allow me to carry much more load ,for setting up a base camp.
we do a lot of fishing and camping in chicot park,backpacking of course.
i am looking at buying a kayak,the rigg you have looks nice,what is the max load you can pack.

shooter
2007-02-22, 15:11
sitting in a perogue is a trickey thing,my butt is about 1.5 to 2'' off the bottom of my boat after compression of the pad.
with a 24" bottom the lower you sit the more stable the perogue. my seat has a high back as i spend all day in my boat sometimes,i also carry extra padding.

shooter
2007-02-22, 15:21
i am 58 yrs old i have been camping the backwaters of louisiana for 40
yrs. i have had a few snakes in the boat with me, so far so good,i do carry a machetti it my boat though , as i have had to wack a couple of snakes.
we are not allowed to shoot gators,so you try to keep an eye on them,i have had a few runins with gators,but nothing i couldent handle so for.

shooter
2007-02-22, 15:23
ice man
i have a 14" aluminum perogue that can take a 300lb man and thean some.
they make them down here do a google search.

shooter
2007-02-22, 15:34
take-a-knee sounds like they need a rail adjustment,the 1911 is bad about the raill gauling ,i have adjusted a few,if they are to tight or have rough spots they are going to jam.
gators can't fly

shooter
2007-02-22, 15:45
jpw
make your chair from 1/2" exterrior plywood,let it sit on the bottom of your boat ,closed cell foam pad longe enough to reach the top of the seat back,and the front edge of the bottom.
glue a pad on the back of the seat,but leave the long pice of foam loose,as this will allow you to double it if your ass starts hurting. i also fold some of it up and pit under my leggs sometimes.
i do not get in my boat i put it on,i have a friend that says i have the record for the most stuff in the littest boat.

pirogues fill up quicker thean a tea cup.

shooter
2007-02-22, 15:58
i have had a hennessy safari deluxe for over two yrs. now. that is all i use ,the best money i ever spent on camping gear.
i had been looking at hammocks for a while and found sgt. rock's site after reading some of the info he posted on the hennessy i bought one.
he was right a great hammock ,the best thing that ever happened to sleeping out doors. i had to get my wife one too, we haven't used a our tent sence.

shooter
2007-02-22, 15:59
i have had a hennessy safari deluxe for over two yrs. now. that is all i use ,the best money i ever spent on camping gear.
i had been looking at hammocks for a while and found sgt. rock's site after reading some of the info he posted on the hennessy i bought one.
he was right a great hammock ,the best thing that ever happened to sleeping out doors. i had to get my wife one too, we haven't used a our tent sence.
snake taste good.

ChristianRider
2007-02-25, 01:54
rider
A legend passed on from generation to generation. A legend of a huge creature, neither man nor beast, which lives in the deep cypress shadows of the Louisiana bayou. A creature that must, by every definition of the word, be considered a monster.
gators don't climb trees.

Talking like that I won't ask what you were doin in the 70's, :canabis: :smokin:

I'll just assume, lol. Only reason thing that ever chased me up a tree was a Boar --- oink

shooter
2007-02-25, 23:21
ChristianRider:
thank you for not asking, the loard has blessed us with some beautiful country here in louiaiana though.
where abouts in louisiana are you ,i live in south central louisiana.

ChristianRider
2007-02-26, 17:53
ChristianRider:
thank you for not asking, the loard has blessed us with some beautiful country here in louiaiana though.
where abouts in louisiana are you ,i live in south central louisiana.

At the moment I'm in Covington.
Thursday I'll be somewhere in on the S. shore, doing volunteer work to make sure volunteers who come here to re-build dont go hungry.

After at the end of march I'll be in Maricopa, Az. volunteering their, for an unknown amount of time?

This is the reason it sometimes takes me a very long time to reply.

Yeah, I Love Louisiana too, I was born here, and it will always be home.

I had no idea what people meant when they said the air was heavy and thick here, until I visited my first desert. I just don't know whats wrong with those people :rofl:

For those of on here who do (no offense intended) feel free to comment about the attraction?

Mutinousdoug
2007-02-26, 18:49
As they say CR, "it's a dry heat".
That said, if I had choose whether to spend August in Phoenix or Lafayette, I'd probably just slit my wrists. February? either one looks pretty good from up here in Colorado.