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View Full Version : A new twist on a one Soda Can Stove



rjprince
2007-03-23, 01:20
I have been developing the FireLightStove for about 3 1/2 years now. I think it is pretty good. Check it out and give me your thoughts. Of course, you and all your friends are welcome to make a few for yourselves. Please do not sell them. Thanks!

http://home.alltel.net/rjprince/FireLightStove.html

Ray

Iceman
2007-03-23, 01:29
Wait a second. You are offering up your design, and then telling us how we can use your design?

(LEGAL: This is my design. You may make one or two for personal use or for a friend. You may NOT SELL ANY stoves made by this design! )

That sounds a bit wacky.

Did you get a patent for this design?

Did I miss something? :bebored:

rjprince
2007-03-23, 02:02
No patent, would cost around 10K based on preliminary inquiries. That in no way limits the fact that it is my design. If you mass produce them and start selling them on a website or E- Bay, you have stolen my intellectual property. I have enough of them in circulation to demonstrate that I have been making stoves with this design for over three years.

Can you make 30 of them for your Scout Troop? Sure, go ahead!

Could you make a whole bunch of them? Probably. And sell them? I guess. Would it be wrong? Definitely. Would I sue some one over it? Probably not. Could I win if I did? A few attorneys seem to think so. Am I going to get ugly about it? Naw...

Why did I post it? To help anyone who has a notion to make one.

Did someone miss something? Might have been me. When I was just a small child they put a "Slow Children" sign in front of my house. Labled at such a tender point in my young life, no wonder I am not right!

rjprince
2007-03-23, 02:07
If they put a "Slow Men Working" sign in front of my business, I will just figure that the label has stuck and there is no longer any point in fighting it! "a bit wacky", my kids would give you hearty "Amen" on that one...

jimtanker
2007-03-23, 09:12
Thanks for the post man. Im sure that Iceman was just having and off day. I was wondering the same myself.

Good design. If I didnt have an ION and another pop can stove that I've built I would build one of those. Wait a minute, thats right!!! Blackbishop has my stove. Stove stealer.

I may have to build another stove over here. I have my ION here but it never hurts to have another. Right??

Want me to send you one with Afghani writing on it?

dropkick
2007-03-24, 02:53
Neat stove and easier to make than the double wall ones that I usually make.
I could see myself building one of these along the trail if I accidently crushed and destroy mine.
Thanks

Jonas4321
2007-03-24, 13:10
RJPrince, thanks for sharing your ideas (and thank you, Iceman, for sharing all you have shared, particularly the most recent Bushwhacker Stove info, which, even though I don't use wood-fueled stoves, was fascinating reading). I will definitely try making one of these babies.

Maybe I can sell them to my Scouts. CRAP! I said the loud stuff quiet, and the quiet stuff loud again. (unapologetically, and very likely inaccurately, lifted from an episode of The Simpsons).

<grin> :bath:

atraildreamer
2007-03-24, 17:12
...you have stolen my intellectual property. I have enough of them in circulation to demonstrate that I have been making stoves with this design for over three years.

Can you make 30 of them for your Scout Troop? Sure, go ahead!

Could you make a whole bunch of them? Probably. And sell them? I guess. Would it be wrong? Definitely. Would I sue some one over it? Probably not. Could I win if I did? A few attorneys seem to think so. Am I going to get ugly about it? Naw...

Why did I post it? To help anyone who has a notion to make one.



Nice set of photos, but your presentation did not show anything that has not been tried, and posted, before by many other stove-making fanatics. A lot of your techniques (methods of cutting, use of only one soda can, windscreens, metal pegs for pot support, etc.) have been invented, and reinvented, by many people. In fact, some of your project looks similar to my "Goya stove" project at www.backpacking,net (My attorney will be in touch with your attorney :biggrin: ) I believe that the original idea for a soda can stove came from an attempt to make a cheaper version of a Trangia stove. So...maybe all stove experimenters should be sued! :afraid:

rjprince
2007-03-24, 23:25
Well Judge Wopner, I hope you are happy, now! And you too, Doug Lewellyn, Mr. "Don't take the Law into your own hands, take them to [The Peoples] court!" Just look at what you guys started! We have become a very litigious society, indeed.

Goya stove is a neat little stove. Just saw it recently when I was making sure there were no other ones out there like mine. My son was sick and I have been out of the loop, so to speak, for a couple of years. There is a link to his site on the home page of my personal site, home.alltel.net/rjprince

Any way, back to the point... After looking at as many other stoves as I could find on as many sites as I could find (Zen, KISS, Wings, Backpacking.net-Make-Your-Own-Gear, etc - and building most of them with numerous variations), none of them used a design where the insert/top was slit all the way to the taper and only one even used the idea of slitting the insert and pressing the top down so as to cause the inner can to remain in contact with the outer wall. Most of the "soda can" designs depend on developing some kind of internal pressure and the flame shoots out of nice little jets, somewhere on the can. This requires some to have a pre-heat method of some sort and causes most of them to be tempramental about working is sub-freezing weather.

The only design that is similar is Ray Garlington's YACC stove. As mentioned on my free plans site, we have had some communication. I thought he might have seen one of mine and used the slit insert idea. He assured me that he did not and I believe him. I did not even know of his stove till recently. His stove is similar to mine, but there are some significant differences.

I iniitally crimped the insert portion in a manner much like stove pipe is crimped on one end. I would insert the top the same way and force it into the bottom portion so that the aluminum would bend to match the bottom. It still gave me an inner wall that made good contact with the outer wall. The stove worked as well, but was more difficult to make.

If there is another one like mine, I have not seen it. As far as using aluminum flashing for a windscreen/support and tent stakes, yes I have seen that with other stoves. I have not seen one that punches holes for the tent stakes. Most commonly the tent stakes are just laid accross the top of the windstand support. Have not seen any that punch holes all around the bottom like mine. Have seen some with cut outs that did not look anywhere near as cool as mine! (IMHO, or course).

Not sure where the original idea for a "soda can" stove came from, but they were making and patenting alcohol stoves that resemble some of the homemade can stoves in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Trangia is a take off on these. Most of the home mades use an inner wall design that is similar to the Trangia design. Of course the Trangia weighs 3 ounces empty (as best as I can recall). The firelight weighs 1/3 ounce. Most of the other "soda can" designs are about the same.

OK. I may have gotten a bit defensive there, sorry. I have heard that the best defence is a good offense, but I did not mean to be offensive in my defensiveness...

rjprince
2007-03-24, 23:27
Oh, btw, any one seen another design like mine anywhere? Drop me a link...

incognito
2007-03-25, 00:10
I have been developing the FireLightStove for about 3 1/2 years now. I think it is pretty good. Check it out and give me your thoughts. Of course, you and all your friends are welcome to make a few for yourselves. Please do not sell them. Thanks!

http://home.alltel.net/rjprince/FireLightStove.html

Ray

If you would please, show us photos of the burner in operation in a low light situation.

First with the insert in its position inside the burner.

Second show the burner without the insert in the burner.

Thank You

rjprince
2007-03-25, 00:23
Have some pictures in low light including a few in snow near the entrance to Yosemite I took a few weeks ago. Stove sinks into the snow as it burns. Leaves a very cool stove shaped hole! Will have to upload them to my site. Will probably be by tomorrow night (Sunday). Willl post a link as soon as available...

The burner is one piece after completion. With and without the insert would be during constuction, not after completion. I do have pictures inside and outside the windscreen/pot support. Will post those as well.

atraildreamer
2007-03-25, 21:53
Well Judge Wopner, I hope you are happy, now! And you too, Doug Lewellyn, Mr. "Don't take the Law into your own hands, take them to [The Peoples] court!" Just look at what you guys started! We have become a very litigious society, indeed.

Goya stove is a neat little stove.

OK. I may have gotten a bit defensive there, sorry. I have heard that the best defence is a good offense, but I did not mean to be offensive in my defensiveness...

Thanks for the compliment about the Goya, PM me and I'll send you one!

"One might say, great minds think alike." :dito:

This quote from your instructions page sums up what I was trying to say (Remember: Always read the instructions first...it can save some embarassment! :mad2: ) I have never seen a stove exactly like yours before this, so you may be the first to hit upon this burner design.

A lot of information builds up on the various sites regarding stoves, and other goodies for backpacking, that a certiain "critical mass" builds up so that people often come to the same conclusion, and similar designs, around the same time. (An example, though not related to backpacking, is the telephone. Two inventors came up with basically the same design for the telephone, but Bell got the patent because he filed a few minutes before the other guy! :call2: )

Keep up the good work, feel free to use my ideas, God knows I used a lot of other people's ideas. :hmmmm2: I don't mind fighting it out in front of Judge Wopner, but Judge Judy gives me nightmares! :ahhhhh:

rjprince
2007-03-27, 00:00
Finally added pictures of the stove in low light. Took these a few weeks ago on a quick trip to Yosemite and Sequoia NPs. Notice that the burner is sitting in the snow. Notice that it is melting its way down into the snow in some of the pics. Notice that the windscreen support is melting down into the snow. This was to make a point. Obviously, even if you are in very cold conditions, you should not set the burner and the windscreen directly on the snow!

Think these are a hoax? That's why I put the scenery pics in there! Better yet, build one; get a bowl full of crushed ice; set the stove in the bowl in the ice; light the stove (fuel must be warm); watch it melt the ice. Pretty cool! Try it! You'll like it!

The stove alone burning inside in low light conditions at the bottom of the page.

Here's the link - http://home.alltel.net/rjprince/FireLightStovePics.html

Lanthar
2007-03-27, 13:41
Rj... very nicely done. Hey, it looks like those burner openings are low enough that this might be usable as a sideburner but with teh burners better positions. Have you attempted using the stove as an integrated burner / potstand? The snips are going to compromise some of the strength... but if you're talking only 2 cups of water they may have enough strength to hold up.

Note - I have to admit I haven't read your instructions in detail, I mostly skimmed to get an idea (I'm a bit pressed for time lately). Anyhow, if this is already in the webpage, feel free to make fun of me.

rjprince
2007-03-27, 21:13
Rj... very nicely done... Have you attempted using the stove as an integrated burner / potstand? The snips are going to compromise some of the strength... but if you're talking only 2 cups of water they may have enough strength to hold up.

Note - I have to admit I haven't read your instructions in detail, I mostly skimmed to get an idea (I'm a bit pressed for time lately). Anyhow, if this is already in the webpage, feel free to make fun of me.


Tried all kinds of modifications to use the burner as a pot stand, was never fully satisfied with the performance. It works much better if you get about an inch between the burner and the pot.

Would never make fun of you for missing a small detail, even if it had been present in the instructions. I have certainly missed my share of details in my 50 years...

Feel free to modify to you hearts content. You may be able to take the idea farther than I was... Let me know what you come up with!

rjprince
2007-04-05, 10:03
OK. After being asked about integrated burner/potstand here and on WhiteBlaze.net, I have let the idea "cook" in my brain for a while and here is what I have come up with...

It is a slight variation of Ray Garlington's YACC stove. The base is deeper (1 3/8 inches), the insert is taller (2 inches), and the slits in the insert are cut all the way to the taper near the top of the can. If you have read my directions and look at the pictures I have posted in my gallery on WhiteBlaze.net, you should be able to make this variation fairly easily.

It will boil 16 ounces of water in about 5 1/2 minutes in my Titanium Teakettle. See the pictures...

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=903

I still like my FireLightStove better. It is a bit faster and I believe my design to be a bit more stable. Of course I have heard it said that opinions are like belly buttons... (or something like that...)

Ray Prince

Rhino-lfl
2007-04-09, 12:18
What do you use for fuel?

Rhino-lfl
2007-04-23, 11:48
I made one this weekend and filled it with charcoal lighter fluid lol. The damn thing shot out one heck of a flame!

Lanthar
2007-04-23, 14:05
I made one this weekend and filled it with charcoal lighter fluid lol. The damn thing shot out one heck of a flame!

:vroam: Okay... :listen: psst... alcohol of some sort... meth (Heet) or Eth (denatured alc) are typically the best...

Take-a-knee
2007-04-23, 14:41
Rhino, did it occur to you that there is a reason it is called an alcohol stove?

rstubblefield
2007-04-23, 15:14
Question: I've heard that some people are using brake fluid for fuel in these light weight stoves. Any thoughts?

Bear
2007-04-23, 15:18
Rhino,
Denatured alcohol is usually the best. If I remember right it gives off the most BTUs. You can find it usually at any hardware store or WalMart in the paint and solvent section.

Try again and good luck.

Lanthar
2007-04-23, 18:43
Question: I've heard that some people are using brake fluid for fuel in these light weight stoves. Any thoughts?

Hrrm... could be... if I remember right it's kinda hard to light the stuff... harder than lighting diesel (however it lights up pretty nice if you dump some chlorine pool shock in it... :D)

dropkick
2007-04-24, 00:42
Brake fluid is hydraulic oil and isn't a very good fuel, as it burns somewhat dirty, smells, and is hard to light.

If you want to use oil, odorless mineral spirits (found at the hardware store) is a better bet.
It's a low sulfur kerosene, and burns and smells better.

But I'd skip all the oils and go with the denatured alcohol.

Jonas4321
2007-04-24, 07:15
Question: I've heard that some people are using brake fluid for fuel in these light weight stoves. Any thoughts?

Caustic, expensive, highly environmentally unfriendly, not as easily obtainable. Burns poorly, smells bad when it does. As a lab experiment (can you burn this stuff?) it's interesting, but denatured alcohol wins on all other fronts. Except for damaging painted surfaces, if that's a goal...:albertein

Rhino-lfl
2007-04-24, 10:49
There are a bunch of folks on whateblaze talking about using unleaded from a pump to cook with. I tried it in the little stove last night ... but this time I put the stove in my Chimeneas to avoid certain death and staining my driveway. PU ... but it was fun.

I'm going to try burning everything I can get my hands on in this stove to see what happens. Rubbing alcohol, butane, 2 stroke gas, etc. Any suggestions?

I wonder if I'll be able to get my nickel back for the coors can?

Lanthar
2007-04-24, 13:22
I don't remember discussions about unleaded, but I do remember discustions about E85 (85% Eth, 15% Unleaded)... dangerous though...

sailingsoul
2007-04-24, 14:42
I have learned, stupid people are to be avioded. Not because because the'll hurt themselves but because they might hurt me! I'm not playing in this room. SS::captain:

Rhino-lfl
2007-04-24, 15:44
I don't remember discussions about unleaded, but I do remember discustions about E85 (85% Eth, 15% Unleaded)... dangerous though...

Here boss man. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23823

Iceman
2007-04-25, 02:17
Rhino, your linked thread addresses using unleaded automotive gasoline to fuel a pressurized type camping stove. The only reference I saw close to alcohol stoves was regarding a beer can stove. Maybe I missed something...

I would think that gasoline is a bit too volatile to burn in an alcohol non pressurized type stove. An open vat of gasoline does burn, but maybe too quick/hot? I haven't tried it...

Heck, try acetone......:evil: :evil: :evil: :elefant: :elefant: :elefant: (Watch your eyebrows and check your homeowners policy first....)

KLeth
2007-04-25, 07:32
Unleaded contains loads of inhibitors/additives since it is designed to protect your engine. Unleaded should only be used in emergencies since the combustion fumes are hazardous.
The same goes for diesel, fuel, bio-diesel and jetfuel. :afraid:

Iceman: Acetone, are we back at the discussion on napalm for cooking ? :bandit:

Rhino-lfl
2007-04-25, 10:04
Ok, 2 stroke gas stinks! Boy what a cloud of vapor that was, and it stains your driveway when it splatters out of the chiminea.

I mixed some gun powder from shotgun shells in with some olive oil and lit it with a 4' stick ... don't try that yourself.

After I made a new stove (points up to the last sentence) I mixed some vasoline with lighter fluid, it was slow, cold and messy.

How do I make napalm :)

I'll try acetone tonight ... and a few mixtures with it too.

Take-a-knee
2007-04-25, 10:20
Rhino, I wish I lived within driving distance of your house so I could come view the carnage. Have you ever heard of the Darwin award? Some people are too stupid to live in this modern age. I'm beginning to think that myself and others here are being toyed with, that you aren't as freakin' dumb as you make yourself appear. If that is the case, then you are merely an asshole and not an ignoramus to boot.

Lanthar
2007-04-25, 11:22
Rhino, your linked thread addresses using unleaded automotive gasoline to fuel a pressurized type camping stove.

Yeah, those things can burn a lot of stuff, alcy stove (in general) can't.

Which reminds me, anyone remember the status of that pressurized veggie oil (and could burn waste oil as well) stove that was being worked on for africa a while back? Someone had a link to it but I recent hosed all my links and can't seem to find it.

KLeth
2007-04-25, 12:07
How do I make napalm :)
According to Wikipedia equal parts gasoline and styrofoam. :afraid: :ahhhhh:
- Do not think that is friendly to the environment.

I tried to burn rapeseed oil in an old primus No. 5, boy that was messy and it never really took off. But the glass gasket I used for wick to preheat stove did burn the oil not too bad.
Probably I should have preheated a lot more, but the primus was cloged up by soot and I did not want to clean it just to run another test.

deadeye
2007-04-25, 14:22
Man, next time an AT or LT shelter burns down, I think we have a list of prime suspects to start with right here in River City!:call:

Rhino-lfl
2007-04-26, 16:52
Rhino, I wish I lived within driving distance of your house so I could come view the carnage. Have you ever heard of the Darwin award? Some people are too stupid to live in this modern age. I'm beginning to think that myself and others here are being toyed with, that you aren't as freakin' dumb as you make yourself appear. If that is the case, then you are merely an asshole and not an ignoramus to boot.


Fuck you asshole, I'm just playing around in my backyard with small mixtures in a safe spot. I have a fire extinguisher and do things at a safe distance. If I lived within driving distance of you, I would kick your ass for saying that.

jimtanker
2007-04-26, 19:31
Now now childeren. Dont make mommy Dixicritter come and have to spank you guys.



BOT - Ive been making a few of these stoves that started this whole thread and they work pretty damn good. Gonna get some testing with time and all that done one of these nights. High altitude testing for the man Rhino. Have to take some pictures too. As Top can attest to, the cans here have the old style pull tabs. The ones that actually come off. Memories........

I get some funny looks in the office cutting up cans half the night. But hey, who cares what others think right? We're demented hikers right?

So shape up before I treat you like one of my paratroopers and make you push till you puke.

Take-a-knee
2007-04-26, 20:44
So I guess that means you really are as ignorant as you sound Rhino.

Bear
2007-04-27, 10:25
Hey Rhino, ever heard the old saying; if you play with fire, you'll get burned?

Maybe you need to see if there is an opening with myth busters so you can gey paid to blow things up.

pure_mahem
2007-04-28, 00:43
Ok, 2 stroke gas stinks! Boy what a cloud of vapor that was, and it stains your driveway when it splatters out of the chiminea.

I mixed some gun powder from shotgun shells in with some olive oil and lit it with a 4' stick ... don't try that yourself.

After I made a new stove (points up to the last sentence) I mixed some vasoline with lighter fluid, it was slow, cold and messy.

How do I make napalm :)

I'll try acetone tonight ... and a few mixtures with it too.
As much as I hate to be the one to supply the dunces :shot: with information they might hurt themselves with... :stickyman I really look forward to seeing an intersting story on the nightly news! Please have your next of kin post the pictures from your experiment :withstupi Thanx. And with that said I will not be held responsible for what yhou do with the following information. A buddy of mine an old vietnam vet explained to me :listen: that you start with a 50 gallon drum filled 1/2 full with diesel fuel :stupido2: then add 5 gallons of laundry soap or dish detergeant fill the rest of the drum with styrofoam packing peanuts and then get your self a big stick and stir thouroughly. Now you have Napalm. If you actually make this and light it :smokin: I would plan on doing some Free Living for about 20 years if you know what I mean:vroam: . And rhino I don't think your fire insurance would cover your house when you explain that you were lighting napalm in your driveway as AN EXPERIMENT:saint: . But hey it's a hell of a way to kick off a block party!:star:

Take-a-knee
2007-04-28, 11:16
After you do demo training for a while you realize one of the most critical aspects of it is getting the detonator positioned so that the charge will go "high-order", that is, completely detonate. Having to go downrange and gather up chunks of high explosive to do a "shit shot" is why they hand out demo pay. I spent a day training with some engineer officers years ago learning to employ Hollywood's favorite- foo gas (gasoline and soap). Army doctrine used to employ it for base defense, it is cheap and effective. A container of this stuff merely needs to be sitting on top of a length of det cord to go off, no knot, no cap, just det cord. That should tell you that you'd damn well better know what you are doing before you "experiment" with this stuff. Also, I'm pretty sure you'll be treading on ground the ATF considers forbidden, even if you don't burn all your skin off.