PDA

View Full Version : Powdered alcohol



jimtanker
2007-06-17, 17:20
I had this idea years ago. Why didn't I patent it?

All You Need is Water: Dutch Students Make Alcohol Powder
Wednesday, June 06, 2007


AMSTERDAM Dutch students have developed powdered alcohol which they say can be sold legally to minors.

The latest innovation in inebriation, called Booz2Go, is available in 20-gram packets that cost 1-1.5 euros ($1.35-$2).

Top it up with water and you have a bubbly, lime-colored and -flavored drink with just 3 percent alcohol content.

"We are aiming for the youth market. They are really more into it because you can compare it with Bacardi-mixed drinks," 20-year-old Harm van Elderen told Reuters.

Van Elderen and four classmates at Helicon Vocational Institute, about an hour's drive from Amsterdam, came up with the idea as part of their final-year project.

"Because the alcohol is not in liquid form, we can sell it to people below 16," said project member Martyn van Nierop.

The legal age for drinking alcohol and smoking is 16 in the Netherlands.

In Germany, alcopops -- sweet drinks containing alcohol and in powder form -- caused quite a stir when launched on to the market. Alcohol powder, classified as a flavouring, was sold in the United States three years ago.

The students said companies interested in making the product commercially could avoid taxes because the alcohol was in powder form. A number of companies are interested, they said.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,278519,00.html

Take-a-knee
2007-06-17, 21:08
All we need now is powdered water...I wonder what you'd reconstitute that with?

Spice1
2007-06-17, 21:55
All we need now is powdered water...I wonder what you'd reconstitute that with?

Uh, Alcohol?

:beer:

sailingsoul
2007-06-18, 00:14
Hay ,You might be on to something. I just tried some vodka with freezed dried strawbelliezz ann day woz GOoodss! SS

oops56
2007-06-18, 01:48
Get some of this and we can have a party:beer:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/th_water2.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/oops62/water2.jpg)

dropkick
2007-06-18, 05:44
I don't see how this is possible.

Everything has 3 states: solid, liquid, and gas, but alcohol is only a solid at temperatures below -112 F or -80C (it's treezing temperature).

You can't remove water from it and get a solid, you just get higher proof alcohol. And as I said before it is a liquid at temperatures above -112F, and it's a gas above 80F.

Something you can add water to and it ferments instantly?
Alcohol mixed with a solid stabilizer (like mixing nitro with clay to create t.n.t.)?

Neither one of those sound like anything I want to put in my body, I think I'll stick with my old fashioned rye with the water already in it.

jimtanker
2007-06-18, 06:03
My guess would be to capture the alcohol molecules in something like a buckminsterfullerine so that it ACTS like its a solid. At least a powder. Until water is added.

Just a little something I was thinking about when I was hiking one day. Dont have the resourses to experiment with it though.

blackdog
2007-06-18, 09:58
At three percent i don't think many of you will be that drunk by drinking booz2go...

jimtanker
2007-06-18, 12:03
But the implications to ultralightweight backpackers is there. Powdered alcohol for a fuel that you could reconstitute as you need it?

Amigi
2007-06-19, 12:20
But the implications to ultralightweight backpackers is there. Powdered alcohol for a fuel that you could reconstitute as you need it?

That's what I was thinking. It's hard to use alcohol stoves here in Florida, unless you either wanna carry a gallon around, or toss 7/8 of it away at every resupply. Use in stove, use in body. I like multiuse tools! :beer:

dropkick
2007-06-20, 01:43
That's what I was thinking. It's hard to use alcohol stoves here in Florida, unless you either wanna carry a gallon around, or toss 7/8 of it away at every resupply. Use in stove, use in body. I like multiuse tools! :beer:
I think you need to look for a different store or type of alcohol to buy.
I buy the gallon size of denatured but that's just for the cost savings, it's also available in smaller amounts.

Below I took from the Zen Stoves site (http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm#Alcohol)

Fuels for Alcohol Stoves

1)Denatured Alcohol (ethanol with methanol (added as a denaturing agent), methyl ethyl ketone, acetone, water, and possibly other chemicals - aka methylated spirits, shellac thinner, marine stove fuel, liquid fondue fuel, chafing dish fuel)

Found in marine shops and in the paint department of most hardware stores. Many brands of this solvent are specifically marketed for use as marine stove fuel and/or chafing fuel.

This form of fuel has anywhere from 1% to 80% methanol and other poisonous chemicals in it. Because of the great variability of contents in denatured alcohol, some brands burn better than others. One trick to test the suitability of a particular brand of denatured is to burn a small amount in a dish and reject it if there is any residue left after it has burned. Lab grade ethanol may have benzene or other chemicals mixed in with it.

2)Grain Alcohol (aka pure ethanol, pure grain alcohol, PGA, grain neutral spirits, GNS, rectified spirit, rectified alcohol, medical grade ethanol, ethyl anhydrous, moonshine)

Everclear Grain Alcohol and Golden Grain alcohol from the David Sherman Corporation come in 95% (190 proof) bottles. This fuel works well but is an expensive option and may be illegal or difficult to purchase in many places. It is also non-toxic and can double for medicinal uses.

Grain alcohol can also be made at home in large quantities, though perhaps not legally in your area without special permits or permission (See TTB Forms).

3) Pure ethanol (aka absolute alcohol or dehydrated alcohol) can also be purchased from chemical supply distributors and as medical grade ethyl alcohol for a very high price. Since production of alcohol greater than 95.4% requires a special dehydration process that includes benzene or glycerine, these fuels can be very toxic.

4)Methyl Alcohol (aka methanol, wood alcohol, methyl hydrate, liquid fondue fuel, camp stove fuel, gas line antifreeze)

Found in some hardware store paint departments as paint thinner or at gas stations and general stores as gas-line antifreeze such as HEET brand (Yellow is Methanol, Red is Isopropyl).
You may also be able to purchase this for around US$3 per gallon at race shops that sell it as race fuel.

The vaporization pressures of methanol are much higher than ethanol throughout the applicable temperature ranges and the jets in your stove might light up faster when using this fuel. This is also a very poisonous fuel and you should consider the health concerns of this fuel if you decide to use it long term (thru-hikers beware and others may want to avoid storing contaminated stoves in their cook pots or bowls).

5)Isopropyl Alcohol (Isopropanol, 2-Propanol, rubbing alcohol) Not recommended -

Found in drug, food and general stores (HEET in red container). Rubbing alcohol is generally only 70% alcohol and won't work in many stoves. Alcohol with 91% or greater alcohol content will work, but will leave a sooty residue on your pot and brown water in your stove.

The heat potential for this fuel is high, but it doesn't generally burn completely (yellow flame and unburned soot) and is generally mixed with water that isn't burned and hinders fuel efficiency.
If you want to use rubbing alcohol (cheapest easily available fuel on this list) for fuel, you may want to use an open flame stove instead of a jetted stove. If you decided to use a jetted stove, you may need to use larger jets in your stove (#57 drill, pushpin size, ~1.4mm or larger) and try to empty as much left over liquid from your stove as you can after each use (as this will further hinder future fire ups) for it to operate.

GGS
2007-06-20, 02:02
Dropkick, where does Shellac Thinner fit into this? It is also advertised for alcohol stoves.

When I first started using alchy stoves I used denatured alcohol which had a strong alcohol odor even after the stove burned out. Then I found shellac thinner (they were out of denatured and shellac thinner was right next to it on the shelf) and tried that. It has very little odor.

Then all of a sudden, poof! No one carried shellac thinner anymore.

??

JAK
2007-06-20, 09:55
My guess would be that shellac thinner is denatured alcohol, which is usually ethanol with some methanol. In theory it should have more BTUs/oz, as long as it burns well, and be safer to handle than straight methanol. If they denatured it with something other than methanol you don't really know. It would be nice if they gave more product information. I think making your own ethanol would be a very fun option. I have seen small stills made out of kettles. Probably the best and safest alcohol fuel, plus the thrill of doing something illegal. Every old lady on Prince Edward Island seems to know how to make alcohol. Personally I am happy just making beer or mead, but it would be fun to distill it. Honey and water and yeast will get you to 10%. You can go higher, but you end up with some unfermented sugars. You can then freeze it. Freeze distillation can get you to 30%. I have done this, not to 30%, but enough for an extra kick. Very nice. From their you can use a kettle and copper pipe to get to 90% or so. Might take a few passes. As far as I know the distillation process doesn't create any toxins in the alcohol, but it does concentrate them, especially in the first pass. I think there are less toxins when you just make beer or mead from yeast, rather than using lots of grain mash, but I'm not sure. Anyhow, I wouldn't mess with the hard stuff unless I knew what I was doing, but I think it would be a great stove fuel, as long as you don't blow yourself up in the process.

http://www.wvofuels.com/2005/11/30/wood-alcohol-denatured-ethanol-etc-and-making-biodiesel/

Sgt.Krohn
2007-06-20, 12:01
I think I'll just continue to pack my plastic pint flask of TeKillYa :)

Amigi
2007-06-20, 14:48
Yes, shellac thinner is denat.

It's not that denat is hard to find by any means, its just there are places on the AT for example where you can buy by the oz, or buy a quart and leave the rest at the store for the next hiker, etc. EVERY place I have been to within resupply distance of the FT, denat is sold by the gallon for campers and canoers.

JAK
2007-06-20, 21:25
Right. I keep forgetting about the resupply angle, never having thru-hiked.

dropkick
2007-06-21, 03:21
GGS,
Like the others have said shellac and paint thinner are normally just denatured alcohol under another name. It might be a different blend of methyl to ethyl (hence the smell difference) but they are normally basically the same.

(They add methyl to make it poisonous, so you can't drink it)

Iceman
2007-06-21, 03:37
Speaking of things you should not drink, a female coworker has a husband at home who is legally blind. Apparently he ain't too smart either, cause when he was younger and was hanging with his buddies at a kegger, some dufus passed around a bottle of wood alcohol when the regular stuff ran out.... Now you know the rest of the story...good day!

Amigi
2007-06-21, 03:47
GGS,
Like the others have said shellac and paint thinner are normally just denatured alcohol under another name. It might be a different blend of methyl to ethyl (hence the smell difference) but they are normally basically the same.

(They add methyl to make it poisonous, so you can't drink it)

Whoa dude. Paint thinner is mineral spirits, not denat. Do not use that shit in your stove.
Denat is basically ethanol that has a rendering agent so ppl cant drink it, but it is otherwise just methylated alcohol. Safe to burn and safe on your skin. Paint thinner is toxic.