PDA

View Full Version : Titanium Goat Stove



Turk
2007-07-06, 00:01
This post has been removed.

My initial review of the Titanium Goat Large stove is out of date. My first review was full of speculations and severely
lacking extended field use data. I have had this stove now over 1 year and over 60hrs of burn time out of it now.

The updated review for this stove is available on my website in the review section.


www.ehko.info

Take-a-knee
2007-07-06, 00:13
Thanks for the info Turk, I hope to get a Vertex 5 and a Ti small stove next year. That roller contraption you speak of, I guess any sheet metal fab shop would have one?

Turk
2007-07-06, 17:58
Okay, forget going to a metal shop. Buy a piece of 2" ABS pipe, 8ft long.

Supporting the pipe in a vice or on a bench, run a jigsaw down the length of the pipe to create a narrow slot. If you cut along the lettering on the pipe, you already have a straight line and don't even have to mark one out.

Put the edge of the ti-chimney pipe in the slot and carefully start rolling. The end result is a nice uniform roll aprox 2.5" in dia. Roll it from both sides and the edges stop trying to fan out in between retainer rings.
Its brilliant.
I only wish I hadn't done it the hard way first.

I wish I had thought of this last night.:argh: :stupido: :shot:

Take-a-knee
2007-07-07, 01:23
That's ingenious Turk. Don't be too hard on yourself, you were in "Rip the bra" mode when you opened that box.

sailingsoul
2007-07-07, 02:47
That setup looks assume and the write up is first rate, Turk. Thanks. SS

Woods Walker
2007-07-09, 20:59
Turk.

First off I feel bad about the first set up of that pipe. I should have told you that for pipes over 6 feet you NEED two people. I have set up 5 pipes and now it is easy but that first one was hard. Don’t worry about any dents or dings in the pipe. It happens and does not affect the function. Also don’t worry the stove warping. It will come back together fine. All of these stoves will warp all the hell and soon you will just give into that. I just bend them back with my hands and that works good enough even for my OCD. Water will be spilled on the stove. Snow will be tossed on it too. It will warp and warp badly over time. All of my UL stoves have and they all come back into a reasonable shape and work good after 100’s of burns. I don’t know if the stainless pipe is easier than the Ti pipe but guessing that practice makes perfect.

Kifaru has instructions on how to set up their pipes. Betting the same method will work for the Ti goat.

http://www.kifaru.net/TIPI.HTM

But once the pipe gets a good burn the shape will hold and it will be far easier to set up again. Plus the thing gets less sharp but keep an eye on your fingers. The first few times out I cut a nasty gash in my thumb.

Now my questions.

How long is the burn time before the stove no longer produced ambient heat.
What is the Diameter of the stovepipe? I think you said 2.5 inch
How is the draft?

Turk
2007-07-10, 21:34
How long is the burn time before the stove no longer produced ambient heat.
What is the Diameter of the stovepipe? I think you said 2.5 inch
How is the draft?

Major heat wave right now. Too hot to use the stove. If it cools off tomorrow closer to the weekend I will try and get some data for you on the stove. I would be interested to learn some of the Kifaru equivalents. I can already see some features of the Kifaru, that I am wishing I had. And of course.... i'm still trying to swallow the cost difference.

Woods Walker
2007-07-12, 00:26
Once you get that data I will compare it to what I know about the small and large Kifaru stoves. I guess the Med stove is about the same in terms of size. But I don't have one. I use a TI goat damper on my small and homemade stove. The homemade stove beats all of the others in nearly every way but like the take down stoves for longer-range stuff. I like the larger door of the kifaru but think the round hole is better for draft if run with the door open. Think the Ti goat overall has less gaps etc. This would make for a longer burn time and better control of the fire but will not know until I see your data. I think you have a very nice stove. I like my Kifaru stoves but don't think the grass is any greener. Both have their pros and cons

Turk
2007-07-14, 15:09
This post has been removed.
Field data is out of date, and some speculations later found incorrect.

Burn data removed. See completed review on my website. www.ehko.info

Turk
2007-07-14, 15:25
Interpretation of the Temp Data:
The size of the wood is a critical factor in maintaining high output temperature. If you look at test 1, there is a major temp drop between the 20 and 30 minute mark. Likewise in test 2 between the 30 and 45 minute mark. This is because during these times, the flame was fully extinguished, and the stove was running only on a well drafting glowing coal bed. If I were to add a large piece of wood during these time periods, it is unlikely that it would simply kindle into flame. More likely I would need to stoke the fire considerably if I wanted to maintain a high output temperature as in the 20 minute marks for both tests.

In the second test I had two pieces of wood near the maximum size that could be fit through the door opening. Note from the temp data in test 2, that as a result, the larger pieces of wood were able to maintain high output temperatures for much longer duration than smaller pieces of wood that burned hotter, but extinguished quickly.

Making these observations now, will greatly affect how I attack the problem of finding the most efficient burn possible with this stove. I am also eager to find the results of temperature output once I limit airflow closing the damper in the next set of tests. I also now have a good idea of how I will go about producing the highest possible output temperature with the stove.

I have a major concern at this point. I recorded some very high temps at the 6ft height. I really have some reserves about the fireproof jack that the chimney will be exiting the tarp through. You can bet, my first test next week inside the tarp with the stove.... I won't be sleeping. Maybe it is silly to worry so much. But, in my first 4 burns, I have had the stove get cherry red, right up to the 4ft mark. Maybe Woodswalker can put my fears to rest, but I think, I will have to do alot of backyard testing with my rig before it sees real field action. I want this to be safe enough to have my daughter in it, and be safe to the surrounding forest.

Photographing is a real pain in the dark. There were so many cool things it was doing I couldn't capture an image of. I had a cone of orange exhaust that looked very much like a jet engine on afterburn coming out of my spark arrestor at the top of the chimney. This is 8ft high. .....crazy. But cool.

Final comments - This stove was originally described to me as "a campfire in a box". I was most surprised to discover from these early tests, that the stove does in fact perform more as a full sized wood stove, and much less as a contained campfire. It is my gut feeling that I will be able to achieve some impressive efficiency results with minimal feeding/stoking of the fire. My end goal with the efficiency testing will be to figure out, how feasible it is to run the stove all night long, providing comfortable heat in winter conditions with minimal fire tending. As a best case scenario I hope to be able to establish through testing, 3hrs of sleep between fire tending. But finding those results will have to wait several more months of course. Lots to play with in the interim.

http://ehko.info/HQ_tgstove_col_02.jpg

Here is the test data supplied by Titanium Goat in using his stoves.
http://www.titaniumgoat.com/images/efficiency.JPG
While TG does not state which of the 3 stove models is represented in this test, I would guess it is the large model, based on the caption below the chart. Also, though it is not stated directly, through educated guess, and from email discussion with TG, I would say the other stove is a larger Kifaru model. Cannot prove the case. I will see if any of my tests match any of findings of Titanium Goats temp data.

Woods Walker
2007-08-01, 01:29
Fantastic job with your review and testing. Looking at the data it seems that the stove puts out good ambient heat for about 1 hour. That is about what I expected. As for the testing. The large Kifaru stove is a beast!

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/Daytraderwon/stove0506.jpg

The heat output can run someone out of an 8-man tipi. Been inside an 8-man with the large stove. Outside was about 5 Degrees. Inside the tipi was 90. I have the round TI goat stove and it puts out tons of heat but canít compare to the monster size of a large Kifaru stove. There are just so much more hot coals and fuel. I can toss very very large chunks of wood inside the thing.

You donít have to worry about the stove jack. Kifaru and Ti-goat use the same fiberglass material. I had fire blasting out like a rocket. Solid red stove jack. The tent never burned however I did get the tipiís average temp of over 130 above the outside temp.

On the topic of flames shooting outside of the pipe etc what you are doing is increasing your odds of pinholes and heating the great outside. You will find that keeping the stove dampened is much better. A nice slow even burn will keep the shelter warmer for a longer period of time rather than getting overheated fast than chilled. I tend to use my stack robber with damper to take those extra BTUs and put them back into my shelter.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/Daytraderwon/robber1.jpg

But I think in the end you will will find that these stoves are not overnight walled tent jobs. They are often 35-50 lbs. It is just a fact of a less than airtight stove with a smaller firebox. The price you pay for a packable source of heat and cooking. This is why I call them a campfire in a box. They clearly burn more efficiently than a campfire but the physics canít be overcome. It just takes too much work to run the stove overnight and it is not needed. Going to bed warm makes the whole night better. Also running the stove in the AM helps jump-start your day. If things turn bad you can always do the 4am stove restart thing. Anyone that has done any winter camping knows all about that 3-4 am hour. Seems the coldest part of the night.

Also you will find that the best fuels are Oak, Maple and Black Birch. Black Birch can really put off tons of heat but avoid the rotted stuff as bacteria have already burned it. Use only standing dead wood or stuff that is off the ground. Avoid pine and other problem fuels. Betting you know this but a wood stove tends to be less forgiving than campfire, as coaling is not really and issue with a campfire but poor wet wood will clog up the stove. From the test results the large TI goat stove looks great!

Turk
2007-08-01, 01:49
That first run of tests, basically set the "worst-case" scenario for that stove. I was running it at least efficiency. I think with a closed door & damper and a good stoked box, I might double my heat retention time. (just a guess). Of course everything will change when I start testing inside the shelter.

I certainly don't mind doing the 4am re-light of the fire. The big question will be ... can I make it to 4am. Can I get 4 or more hours of heat from the stove between sleep. If I can achieve that, I will be more than happy.
oh ya btw. I've been thinking about your stack robber. Trying to come up with how to make a collapsible box version.
Also reading old posts of yours over at zombie squad. Good info.

dropkick
2007-08-01, 07:42
As a person who grew up with wood heat as my primary heat source I recommend this course of action:
After dinner put on a sweater.
Allow the fire to die down.
Before you go to bed remove any remaining live coals and lay a new fire.
In the morning quickly light the fire and then go back to bed until it warms up.


-You can try keeping the fire going all night, but sooner or later you'll sleep through its' going out. A few winter mornings of setting up a fire in my long johns convinced me that having the fire ready to start in the morning was the wisest choice. -Besides when your cuddled up under the covers you're just wasting fuel.

Woods Walker
2007-08-02, 02:29
That first run of tests, basically set the "worst-case" scenario for that stove. I was running it at least efficiency. I think with a closed door & damper and a good stoked box, I might double my heat retention time. (just a guess). Of course everything will change when I start testing inside the shelter.

I certainly don't mind doing the 4am re-light of the fire. The big question will be ... can I make it to 4am. Can I get 4 or more hours of heat from the stove between sleep. If I can achieve that, I will be more than happy.
oh ya btw. I've been thinking about your stack robber. Trying to come up with how to make a collapsible box version.
Also reading old posts of yours over at zombie squad. Good info.

Thanks for the complement however I am no expert at anything other than screwing up. I have had my share for really bad nights. This is what made me get into the heated shelter thing. There is a big difference between just surviving and thriving. To thrive is a whole different thing. I think you have what it takes to go out in the dead of winter with the stuff on your back and do better than just make it. Nothing can compare to looking at the fresh snow and seeing the light reflect off the ice covered branches.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/Daytraderwon/e1a9-1.jpg

Look at what dropkick is saying:

ďAs a person who grew up with wood heat as my primary heat source I recommend this course of action:
After dinner put on a sweater.
Allow the fire to die down.
Before you go to bed remove any remaining live coals and lay a new fire.
In the morning quickly light the fire and then go back to bed until it warms up.


-You can try keeping the fire going all night, but sooner or later you'll sleep through its' going out. A few winter mornings of setting up a fire in my long johns convinced me that having the fire ready to start in the morning was the wisest choice. -Besides when your cuddled up under the covers you're just wasting fuel.Ē

I stayed in cabins and walled tents that used stoves much like Drop kick is describing. These are much larger stoves than we could ever expect to pack alone even with a pulk sled. But many of the same rules apply

I do things a bit different than him inside my packable shelters but the ideas are basically the same. Rather than cleaning out the stove I stoke the stove to capacity with large chunks of hardwood before going to bed than damper the thing all the way down. Never had an issue with CO etc. I place a cotton ball and wood ready to go for the AM or just incase I get chilled if the temps really drop during the night. The heated shelter has nearly ZERO insulation so I canít clear the stove out and still expect to get inside my bag warm. As the stove burns down I zipper up the sleeping bag as it is too warm to do this with the stove running. The light from the airports tends to act as a night-light to aid in putting on the chapstick (must have for winter camping) and to zipper up the bag etc. Also a cotton ball with Vaseline can double as a chapstick. Anyways as the light fades sleep in not to far off. In the AM I have all my stuff readily to go. I can unzip my bag and reach outside to restart the stove. Than let the shelter warm up before getting out.

Here are some tips I learned over the years using a heated shelter.

1. Use a shelter large enough to avoid direct contact with the stove but not so large as to become a bitch too heat. I canít tell you the number of times I burned my jackets etc when first using my stove inside a tent. By this same token set up your sleeping area before the stove. Pack the bag etc after the stove has been removed when breaking camp. A wool jacket is nice to wear inside the shelter as it tends not to burn but I canít as they make me break out.
2. You will feel better if clean. With the stove you can take a snow bath or warm some water in a cook pot for a sponge bath. One of the positives of a heated shelter. Can be done next to a large Whitemanís fire however it is not even close to the same as inside a heated tent.
3. Open the door to your shelter during and after cooking. You donít want the whole place to stink of bacon. Air the place out unless you want visitors. Also keep the doors open when away from camp. This is not based on any scientific data however I have seen critters run into my shelter soon after I left. Must have been waiting in the wings. Feel that with the door open the odds of tearing though the sides are reduced. Goes without saying that leaving food and dirty cook pots inside the shelter is looking for trouble. I canít say for certain but things are a bit harsher during winter and sometimes critters are willing to take additional risks than during warm weather. Last thing you want is a damaged shelter and ransacked food.
4. Donít leave the shelter unattended during a winter storm. You must remove extra snow etc during the storm. Also heavy wet snow seems to draw the heat away from the shelter so the stove has to be run hotter. After the storm remove the melted snow from the shelterís bottom or it will become a block of ice. With the stove running hot snow often turns to water and then run down the sides.
5. Gather more wood than you think will be needed. Finding fuel is so much harder at night. Standing dead wood looks very much like all the rest. Also you increase your odds of getting hurt. You can always have some wood uncut next to the shelter. A saw is a nice thing to carry. I use this to cut the wood into sections than the hatchet to split the fuel. But be careful with the fingers. Not having enough firewood is one of my biggest bitches with that fool from Man vs. Wild. That and being far too risk orientated.
6. Drink tons of water even if you donít feel thirsty. Some may worry about the late night piss however without water your body canít properly regulate itís temperature. Most bad winter nights for me started with self imposed dehydration for fear of nature's call. This was stupid on my part. Just another screw up. Same thing goes for eating. You will burn more food keeping your bag warm so the risk of a late night number 2 is much less than with warmer weather camping. Or at least this has been the case for me. However like the water thing eating before bed seemed to make the whole night enjoyable.
7. Better fuel means longer times between cleaning out the stove. But work out a system for removing coals if the stove gets clogged. This is often not a problem overnight but been snowed in and you want to work out a system before that happens.
8. Combat drafts. Ever crack your bathroom window open during winter? The whole room chills down fast. I tend to cover the gaps in my floorless shelters with snow if expecting real cold. But keep in mind that both you and the stove must have air to operate. In this battle you will come out at the short end of the stick. The Kifaru tipi has gaps in the stove jack and big #10 zippers to allow enough air in no matter what. Looking at the Ti goat shelters they have tighter stove jacks and #8 zippers but have placed vents to ensure airflow. Both systems seem to work as I am alive and the same is true for Ti goat users. Also a liner will help reduce drafts and provide a dead air space to act as insulation when the stove is running. Also act as a reflective surface that is not directly in contact with the outside cold to radiate the heat right back into the shelter. With no gaps on the floor and a liner I can run the stove slower and longer. There by getting more burn time. But this is at the expense of an additional 1.5 lbs. Also works to eliminate condensation. But if you donít make a liner keep in mind the need for air and the advantages of reducing the gaps on the ground.

Well that is all I can think of for now. There are some experienced winter campers on this site that could also key in. Betting some of the stuff I told you is right however this is based on my personal experience. So maybe I am not doing the very best or others can offer suggestions I never even thought of. But in any case your overall enjoyment if based in part as to the condition of your body before getting into your sleeping bag. Just as much if not more than any wood stove. Also you can do some things that other winter campers without a heated shelter may not consider safe. For example I often take off my boots and other clothing items to dry next to the stove. Others can use a fire for this. However I think nothing of walking out into a snowstorm with only my crocs on my feel if nature calls. Not saying run around the woods naked but if very near my heated shelter wet feet donít mean much more than 10 minutes until dry and warm. Putting my damp cloths and boots back on is for me too time consuming. I donít know what your final shelter will be however considering the option of sleeping on the ground if the temps are below zero. The hammock becomes more problematic at these temps. Plus you can sleep right next to the stove and restart it from inside your bag.

I think if you follow some of the basics of winter camping combined with the advantages of the wood stove you will find that it just does not matter if the stove dies down during the night.

CaSteve
2007-09-12, 03:38
Turk,

What kind of shelter are you planning to use this stove in? What are you going to use as a roof jack?

My winter camping shelter requires a shovel & lot's of digging. I've been thinking of some sort of pyramid tent.

-Steve

Turk
2007-09-12, 08:02
I am looking to explore the concept of winter tarps and hammocks.
I am nearly done all the sewing of the first model. Should house 2 hammocks
or more with a tapered A-frame type design. Just need to coax the
last few hrs on the sewing machine out of my sister.

Woods Walker
2007-10-20, 00:19
Any more updates on the stove or shelter project?

Turk
2007-11-08, 21:01
sorry for the late response woods ... I have been insanely busy with testing.

I have lots to report on this stove. Been using it every weekend. I am going to write up and post a heavily revised review.

I made a hammock tent for the stove and destroyed it my very first trip out with it away from backyard testing.
http://ehko.info/ham_tent_01_onlypic.jpg

In a fortunate twist of fate I was approached by Pan to test out a JRB prototype hammock tent made from a fire resistant fabric.
You should check that out too...

http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2496

GGS
2007-11-09, 01:51
I made a hammock tent for the stove and destroyed it my very first trip out with it away from backyard testing.



Say what? Did it catch fire or something? Let us know! I am working on a prototype of a tipi/stove combo myself so if there is something to be learned please pass on!

If there was a fire mishap I'm glad to hear you're OK!

Iceman
2007-11-10, 09:57
Please tell me this wasn't your tyvek prototype you were considering...(shelter).... I am sitting on over a hundred bucks of tyvek, havent taken the scissors to my roll yet...

Turk
2007-11-10, 12:21
Nope, no tragic blunders with the fire. In fact the stove has been the safest
part of my experimentation.

Ultimately what killed my tent was a wind storm on the north shore of Lake Superior. It was a bad combination of several factors. The tent fabric was not tensioning evenly, the way I had hoped. I attribute this now to some flaws in my tie-out design. The second factors was loose moss over sandy soil. I was on a very exposed bluff with NW exposure. The tent didn't stand a chance against the notorious chinook winds from alberta in late fall. When they slam into the cold air off of superior, it makes for monumental storm fronts.

I haven't cut my tyvek yet either Ice, I am saving it for the next project.

Turk
2007-11-10, 12:24
Can't wait to see what you come up with GGS. Be sure to give us some pics and updates with the tipi project.

Woods Walker
2007-12-16, 13:23
Cool stuff turk. Going to the gym right now but I need to read this thread some more. How is that stove working out? Heated shelters rock.

Turk
2007-12-17, 22:30
Ya I really need to get all the new data and pics posted up. I started a new job 3 weeks ago and I have been working 15+hrs 6-7 days a week. Just haven't had time for anything. I will make time this weekend to post some new material on how testing is going.

Woods Walker
2007-12-20, 01:02
Thanks I will enjoy reading it. Wood stoves are real nice in winter. Fun too!

JAK
2007-12-21, 02:37
I think a really big advantage of a heated shelter is you can really go all out during the day without having to conserve too much energy in case of a storm, and even get wet doing so, knowing you can dry stuff out and get warm and well fed and a solid nights rest even on a cold night after the fire is put to bed.

Raskesven
2008-11-04, 18:16
Hello.
Itís with great interest I have read about your experiences with different stoves.

I have used a lavvu, kŚta (similar to tipi) the last 12 years and I like the open fire best, but during winter a stove is very convenient so last couple of years I have been using a stove during midwinter. In my country (Sweden) the tradition in how to protect the cloth where the stovepipe exits is different from yours. You use a piece of fire resistant cloth. We use different kinds of short protective ĒpipesĒ around the stovepipe where the stovepipe exits the tipi. Length of ĒpipeĒ around 25 inches and diameter 2 inches wider than the stovepipe. It protects the cloth in the lavvu from the heat and air-circulation keeps it cool enough. Since I want my gear to fit into my backpack and keep the weight down, I use a collapsible stove, and a protective ĒpipeĒ made of welding-cloth, light steelnet to keep the shape, and metal screws to keep distance and air between stovepipe and protective ĒpipeĒ.

Last years I have used the large stove in thin steel from Kifaru. If I had known about TitaniumGoat I would have chosen that stove instead. Three things I donīt like with Kifaruís stove. It has no baffle that stops flames from going straight up in the stovepipe (one could make one and put it where the sparknets are), the door is not airtight and the stovepipe doesnít feel really secure since itís the rolling type (since I donít use the method with fire-resistant cloth. There are also other functional reasons for that).

I have now bought a titanium telescoping stovepipe instead, from Fourdogs, light and packable enough, and it has a baffle thet prevents flames from going straight up the stovepipe. Just have to connect it with an adapter (under construction) to the stove since the stovepipe and the hole for the stovepipe in the stove are of different dimensions. Trying to figure out how to make the door airtight. But with the mentioned combinations it should all work well.

Here is a picture of my lavvu:

JAK
2008-11-05, 09:17
This post has been removed.

My initial review of the Titanium Goat Large stove is out of date. My first review was full of speculations and severely
lacking extended field use data. I have had this stove now over 1 year and over 60hrs of burn time out of it now.

The updated review for this stove is available on my website in the review section.


www.ehko.infoNice website turk.
Good stove review. Good point about size of the front door.
Love the blue colour of the stove i the photo.

MRH
2008-11-06, 00:22
The Titanium Goat stove is the one I'm going to get...(soon I hope)... I been thinking about their door problem. TI goat said they would give me some titanium to cover the holes in front so I could use the door as air input. Iím thinking about drilling out the rivet that holds the door on and put a small bolt with a spring on the front side of door so it will put a little pressure on the door. I think I can make a baffle for it alsoÖ

MaineSurveyor
2008-11-13, 10:00
Great thread as I've been thinking about some winter hiking/camping here in Maine. Thanks.

I've gotten some great information on the subject on the Canadian Canoe Routes (http://www.myccr.com/) website as well.

--Mike.