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TeeDee
2007-08-19, 19:01
I've tried almost all of the hammock suspension methods. All except the CC buckles.

Finally decided to do an analysis of the various methods which I know about and see how the methods compared.

For this analysis I have compared the following methods:

plain knot. The knot could be the Hennessy style lashing or a truckers hitch or whatever your favorite knot is that gets the job done. As I have noted below, the simple knot is used with tree huggers and a carabiner is optional. The carabiner adds a modicum of convenience at not having to thread the suspension line through the tree hugger end loops, rather just clip into the carabiner.
pros: nothing extra needed(when carabiner not used)
cons: can be difficult to learn and remember (especially for those of us getting on in years :biggrin: ) and tying knots is not always the easiest option.


carabiner hitch. This method uses a carabiner as a replacement for the loop in the trucker's hitch. This eliminates the rope-on-rope friction and abrasion that plagues the trucker's hitch. The carabiner, specifically the CAMP Nano wire carabiner, is designed to reduce such friction to a minimum, pulling on the rope when looped back through the carabiner still gives the 3:1 mechanical advantage and reduces the friction and hence abrasion to a minimum. I would like to say "eliminates", but that is not possible.

How to use the carabiner hitch:

Girth Hitch - first girth hitch one end of the carabiner to the suspension rope at a convenient place. If you have used a trucker's hitch, then place the carabiner where you would normally tie the loop of the trucker's hitch - think of the carabiner as replacing the loop of the trucker's hitch. Tie the girth hitch as follows: form a bight, double the bight back on the rope and pull the rope through the bight, clip the carabiner into the loop thus formed - instant girth hitch ( aka Larks head ). Simple, easy, efficient, quick and secure. Note: orient the carabiner on the girth hitch so that the hitch is on the small end of the carabiner, i.e., the opening for the wire gate is away from the girth hitch.. This will make clipping into the carabiner in subsequent steps much easier.
Loop through tree hugger/carabiner - from the first carabiner, run to the tree hugger and through the end loops or clip into the carabiner which is on the tree hugger loops if you are using one there.
back to 1st carabiner - from the tree hugger run back to the first carabiner, clip into the carabiner and pull tight, as tight as you want. Always remember that you are working with a 3:1 advantage now. The force you pull with becomes 3 times that force on the hammock or the hammock ridge line. I doubt that even with the 3:1 advantage that you will be able to break the ridge line.

Once you have the rope pulled as tight as you desire, the rope needs to be secured from slipping back. There are at least 2 ways to do this:


wraps - hold the rope and clip through the carabiner again. I find that I can pinch the rope pulled over the carabiner with my fingers to hold it in place. The rope is now wrapped totally around the end of the carabiner once. Repeat and clip the loose end through the carabiner 4 more times so that the rope is now wrapped around the end of the carabiner 4 times.

Tie a slipped half hitch, pulling a large bight through the half hitch. Using the bight of the first half hitch, tie a second half hitch. The hammock suspension is now tied and secured.
girth hitch - there are two methods for tying this second girth hitch:

threading - (thanks to oldguy52 for this):

back to the carabiner and go down through it and pull tight, pinch and hold the rope,
come out the bottom then back up and over the standing part, i.e., the part from the tree hugger,
then back under the carabiner and up through again,
Now back out to the standing part. This should end as a larks head knot.

looping -

clip into carabiner and pull tight, pinch and hold the rope,
pull down and under end of carabiner and then up and over the standing part, i.e., the rope from the tree hugger,
form a bight in the loose end, twist the bight 1/2 turn so that the loose end is under the working part, thus forming a loop of the bight,
clip loop formed in bight above into carabiner and pull tight. Girth hitch formed and holding.


Tie a slipped half hitch, pulling a large bight through the half hitch. Using the bight of the first half hitch, tie a second half hitch. The hammock suspension is now tied and secured.




pros: quick and simple to use. Provides a 3:1 mechanical advantage for those of us that like to really tighten our suspension and ridge line. Very secure, the carabiner is rated at 22 KN along the long axis used.
cons: like a trucker's hitch uses more suspension rope. The amount used depends on the placement of the carabiner.

Ring on tree hugger. - this method uses an SMC descending ring on the ends of the tree huggers instead of a carabiner. This reduces the weight from the carabiner by 0.6 oz and assumes that the tree hugger loops are big enough for the ring to pass through the loop (or at least the loop on one end). To use the ring on the tree hugger proceed as follows: girth hitch the ring to one end of the tree hugger ( the easy way to do this is to push the loop through the ring, open the loop and pass it around the outside of the ring - girth hitch done), wrap the tree hugger around the tree one or more times, then girth hitch the second end to the ring again (same way as before).
ring version of carabiner hitch - this method replaces the carabiner of the carabiner hitch with an SMC descending ring. Otherwise this method is identical to the carabiner hitch, but lighter for those desiring as light a solution as possible.

pros: quick and simple to use. Provides a 3:1 mechanical advantage for those of us that like to really tighten our suspension and ridge line. Lighter than the carabiner hitch. Very secure, the SMC descending ring is rated at 14 KN.
cons: like a trucker's hitch uses more suspension rope. The amount used depends on the placement of the ring. Requires threading the ring as opposed to clipping with the carabiner hitch.


ring buckle. This method was "discovered" at the same time and independently by myself and a guy posting on the Yahoo hammock groups (don't know his name). The buckle utilizes two SMC descending rings. Any ring with a high enough rating and proper inner diameter could be used, but the SMC rings at 0.4 oz each are the lightest of which I know. They are pretty inexpensive also.
pros: quick and simple to use
cons: slipping of the webbing through the rings can be a problem. usually alleviated by tying a slipped half hitch after threading the buckle and pulling tight.


zig zag cleat. This method was first introduced by ALHikerGal on the hammock forums. It uses a marine zig zag cleat made of nylon. The rating on the cleat is fairly low, but the forces are largely canceled by the method in which the cleat is used. The largest forces left are shear forces and experience indicates that the cleat is able to handle the forces okay. The lowest price I could find for the cleats is at Cabela's (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0001551018030a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=cleat&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=cleat&noImage=0).
pros: quick and simple to use
cons: the cleat is heavier than rings, but the cleat system is lighter by far.


CC buckle. The method uses a buckle used in the Crazy Creek hammocks, hence the name. Just Jeff is the first that I know to use the CC buckle on a hammock other than the Crazy Creek hammock.
pros: quick and simple to use
cons: slightly heavier than the ring buckle but lighter than the cleat. At least one person reported having to cut the webbing to loosen the buckle. This may be a problem for hammocks using a structural ridge line, but most that use it seem to be doing okay.


Hitchcraft Rope Tie. This method uses a device invented recently and marketed on the Hitch Craft (http://www.hitchcraft.net/) web site. I have used this method, but it requires a suspension rope with a minimum diameter of 0.25". Unfortunately the popular HH ULBA hammock suspension line is approximately half that diameter. The Hitchcraft Rope Tie comes in 2 sizes, mini and Monster. Some people have reported using the mini rope tie. I tried one using 1/8" diameter rope and can attest to the fact that it will not work for me on that diameter suspension rope. The 1/8" diameter suspension rope ripped through the mini and burned out a channel at the bottom of the cleat. In my correspondence with the inventor he warned about concentrated forces using small diameter rope. He was right.
pros: quick and simple to use. Has other uses in camp where a device for tightening rope is needed and like the Figure 9 device it gives a 3 to 1 advantage when rigged properly.
cons: The mid-range weight device of the methods analyzed. The mini weighs 0.9 oz which is 0.1 oz heavier than a single ring buckle and the Monster weighs 2.9 oz which is far heavier than any other device examined here.



The ground rules for my analysis:

Hammock Size. I assumed a hammock the same size as the HH ULBA with a length from end to end of 100" (8' 4"). If you use another hammock the weight comparison is still valid, but you would have to substitute your hammock length for the tree separation analysis. I used the HH ULBA because Hennessy makes a standard size in that model and it appears to be a popular hammock.

Suspension Line. I assumed the use of the New England Spyderline, 2.8 mm diameter for the suspension rope. Weight: 0.064 oz/foot. I have assumed that 10' of suspension line is utilized for the knot, cleat and HitchCraft Rope Tie methods. Weight: 0.64 oz per end.

Whipping. Since the amount of rope used for the whipping is assumed to be the same for all hammocks, the weight of the whipping was not considered.

Buckle weights:
Ring Buckle: 2 rings, 0.4 oz each, 0.8 oz total
CC Buckle: 1.0 oz each


Buckle attachment. For the Ring buckle and the CC buckle I have asumed that the buckle is attached to the hammock at a distance of 1' from the hammock end and that 1' of line is used to attach the buckle. Thus, 2' of line in total is used for attaching the buckle. Weight: 0.128 oz each end.

Carabiner. I have assumed that a carabiner is used with both the Ring buckle and the CC buckle. I have also assumed that a carabiner may be used with a tree hugger. For use with the tree hugger, the tree hugger is wrapped around the tree and the carabiner clipped into both end loops. The hammock suspension rope is then tied to the carabiner when it is used. I have found that either a round turn and 2 half hitches or a truckers hitch can be used. The Truckers Hitch (http://www.animatedknots.com/truckers/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com) has a 3 to 1 advantage in pulling the suspension line taut and thus may be preferred by those who like to pull the structural ridge line tight. The Trucker's hitch has the disadvantage of needing more line to tie than the round turn and two half hitches. I have assumed the use of the CAMP Nano wire carabiner as the lightest available with a sufficient rating to be used in the hammock suspension. Weight: 1 oz.

Tree huggers. For the methods that use tree huggers I have assumed 42" of 1" wide polyester webbing. I have assumed 42" for the simple reason that 42" is the length of the standard tree hugger sold by Hennessy. That is a sufficient length for a tree with a 15" diameter if using the Hennessy lashing or something similar. It is sufficient for a 13" diameter if using a carabiner. The webbing is the 1" wide polyester webbing sold by Harbor Freight in their ratchet straps and rated at 1,500 lbsf. Weight: 0.224 oz/foot, 0.78 oz per tree hugger.

Webbing. I have assumed that 10' of 1" wide polyester webbing is used with both the Ring buckle and the CC buckle. The webbing is the same as that I have assumed for the tree huggers. Weight: 0.224 oz/foot, 2.24 oz per hammock end. The webbing is by far the heaviest single component of any of the suspension methods analyzed. The polypropylene webbing sold by Ed Speers is slightly lighter at 0.208 oz/ft, but the rating of the polypropylene webbing is given by Ed as 700 lbs. The polyester webbing I obtained from the Harbor Freight ratchet straps and is rated at 1500 lbs. I prefer the polyester webbing and so used it in this comparison.

HitchCraft Rope Tie. I have examined the Mini rope tie only and I have assumed using the 4.8 mm New England Spyderline at 0.208 oz/ft.


Weight Comparison: (Note: the weights are for one end of the hammock. The weight for both ends is shown in parenthesis.)

Knot - no carabiner or ring

10' line: 0.64 oz
Tree Hugger: 0.78 oz
Total: 1.42 oz ( 2.84 oz )

knot w/ring

10' line: 0.64 oz
Tree Hugger: 0.78 oz
ring: 0.4 oz
Total: 1.82 oz ( 3.64 oz )

Knot w/carabiner

10' line: 0.64 oz
Tree Hugger: 0.78 oz
Carabiner: 1 oz
Total: 2.42 oz ( 4.84 oz )

Ring version of the Carabiner hitch w/ring on tree hugger

10' line: 0.64 oz
SMC descending ring, 2: 0.8 oz
tree hugger: 0.78 oz
Total: 2.22 oz ( 4.44 oz )

Ring version of the Carabiner hitch w/carabiner on tree hugger

10' line: 0.64 oz
SMC descending ring, 1: 0.4 oz
carabiner: 1.0 oz
tree hugger: 0.78 oz
Total: 2.82 oz ( 5.64 oz )

Carabiner hitch

10' line: 0.64 oz
carabiner, 2: 2.0 oz
tree hugger: 0.78 oz
Total: 3.42 oz ( 6.84 oz )

zig zag cleat

10' line: 0.64 oz
cleat: 1.25 oz
carabiner: 1.0 oz
tree hugger: 0.78 oz
Total: 3.67 oz ( 7.34 oz )

Ring Buckle

2' suspension line: 0.128 oz
2 rings @ 0.4 oz each: 0.8 oz
10' of 1" wide polyester webbing: 2.24 oz
1 carabiner: 1.0 oz
Total: 4.168 oz ( 8.336 oz )

HitchCraft Rope Tie - mini

10' line: 2.08 oz
Rope Tie: 0.9 oz
carabiner: 1.0 oz
tree hugger: 0.78 oz
Total: 4.76 oz ( 9.52 oz )

CC Buckle

2' suspension line: 0.128 oz
1 CC buckle: 1.0 oz
10' of 1" wide polyester webbing: 2.24 oz
1 carabiner: 1.0 oz
Total: 4.368 oz ( 8.736 oz )



Summary: Ranking by weight (Total suspension weight listed)

simple knot - no carabiner or ring: 2.84 oz
simple knot w/ring: 3.64 oz
ring version of carabiner hitch w/ring on tree hugger: 4.44 oz
simple knot w/carabiner: 4.84 oz
ring version of carabiner hitch: 5.64 oz
carabiner hitch: 6.84 oz
zig zag cleat: 7.34 oz
Ring Buckle: 8.336 oz
CC Buckle: 8.736 oz
HitchCraft Mini Rope Tie: 9.52 oz



The simple knot method with or without a carabiner is by far the lightest option available and the CC Buckle and Rope Tie methods being the heaviest suspension methods examined. There are other variations not listed here, e.g., ring version of carabiner hitch with no carabiner on the tree hugger. This method comes in lighter than the plain knot with a carabiner on the tree hugger.

As soon as a buckle and webbing is used the weight jumps dramatically due to the high weight of the webbing. The webbing that is used for either buckle is the heaviest component of any suspension.

In essence the webbing offers a lot of convenience, but the weight penalty is high also.

Also, I have found that the carabiner hitch is just as easy and convenient to use as the double ring buckle and the carabiner hitch doesn't carry, pun intended, the weight penalty of the webbing.

I have pretty much come full circle. I started with the Hennessy lashing and got frustrated with the lashing pretty quickly. It was and is frustrating to wrap the lashing and then have to undo all of the wraps to center the hammock between the trees and then re-do again to re-tighten the suspension after things have stretched out a bit.

I went from the simple knot to webbing and cam locking buckles for the sake of convenience and then to the ring buckles to save weight over the cam buckles and because I couldn't find a reliable rating for the cam buckles. At the time I thought nothing of the weight, i.e., I just didn't take the time to figure how much that system weighed. After carrying it too many times, I decided to figure out just how much the weight penalty really is. I was really surprised by just how much webbing really weighs.

2.88 mm Spyderline: 0.064 oz/ft, 1,200 lbsf breaking strength
1" polyester webbing: 0.223 oz/ft, 1,500 lbsf breaking strength

The webbing is 3.5 times heavier than the Spyderline for almost equivalent breaking strengths. Of course we are using very different materials, polyester webbing versus Dyneema. Dyneema is noted for it's light weight and high strength.

So what have I learned from this?

I am dropping the use of all suspension devices except carabiners and/or rings and the only webbing I will be using is the tree huggers. At 0.78 oz each, 1.56 oz total, I can manage and spare the trees when needed.

I have switched totally to my Bridge Hammock. My suspension is now configured as follows:

Bridge suspension lines to a single SMC descending ring. 10' of New England 2.8 mm Spyderline. I use the Carabiner hitch described above. I like pulling my suspension really tight and like the 3:1 mechanical advantage afforded by this method.

I have reduced the weight carried in the hammock suspension from 8.336 oz to 6.84 oz or 5.64 if I decide to use the ring version of the carabiner hitch.

Tree Separation.

Spyderline suspension. With 10' of Spyderline and 100" end to end for the hammock and allowing 2' of line for either a Hennessy lashing or Trucker's hitch, that leaves 8' on both ends for spanning the distance from hammock to trees. That allows a maximum tree separation of approximately 24'. The minimum separation would be approximately 10' 6" assuming that a round turn and 2 half hitches was used on one end and a trucker's hitch on the other end. This assumes that the tree huggers are sufficient to handle the tree diameter. For an additional 1.56 oz., tree diameters up to 26" could be accommodated. Note that the tree diameter that can be accommodated is dependent only on the length of the available tree huggers and is independent of the length of the suspension rope.

Webbing suspension. With 10' of webbing, a tree diameter of 1' will use slightly over 3', 3' 1.7" more exactly, of the suspension webbing to circumnavigate the tree. That leaves 7' for threading the buckle and whatever is needed to grasp and pull the suspension tight. Assuming 1' is needed to thread the buckle and provide enough to grasp, that leaves 6' of webbing on each end for spanning the distance to the trees. With distance from buckle to buckle of 10' 4", a maximum tree separation of about 22' could be accommodated. If the diameter of both trees was increased to the 26" that could be accommodated by doubled tree huggers, then 6.8' of the webbing would be used to circumnavigate the trees, leaving 3.2'. Again assuming the 1' for threading and grasping, we have 2.2' of available webbing. That means that the maximum tree separation in this case would be about 14.5'. The minimum tree separation would be approximately 12.5' assuming that 1' would be needed between the buckle and the tree in which to work the buckle. Unfortunately, with the buckle system, the webbing is used not only to span the tree separation, but also to circumnavigate the trees themselves. This demands more webbing adding to the weight penalty. The bigger the trees, the more webbing would be needed and hence the greater the weight penalty. A unit (unit being an inch, a foot, a meter, etc) increase in the tree diameter, requires 3 times as much webbing to compensate, thus increasing the weight penalty by a factor of 3. The weight penalty is actually increased by a factor of 3 times 3.5 or 10.5 over the weight necessary for any method not using webbing for the suspension. This assumes that the needed tree separation for each method is the same. So for each oz needed with tree huggers and suspension ropes, 10.5 oz more is needed for the webbing suspension.


Conclusion, the use of the buckles and webbing suspension incurs a much magnified weight penalty if you are going into a region with large trees and must be able to accommodate the same tree separation as would be needed for a rope suspension. A 10.5 to 1 weight penalty.

Turk
2007-08-19, 19:23
wow ..... :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:


well done!
PM sent.

SGT Rock
2007-08-19, 19:36
Got any pictures of that suspension rig?

TeeDee
2007-08-19, 20:47
While eating dinner, I suddenly realized I had slipped a decimal point on the webbing weight multiplying by 100 instead of 10.

I have corrected the mistake. The weight differences are not as dramatic now, but they are still there.

sorry about that. :biggrin: :ahhhhh:

TeeDee
2007-08-19, 21:18
I've got some older photos of the suspension.

Both can be viewed here:

http://www.photomax.com/web/mem_view_photo_v1.php?vpage=

The second ( 007 ) shows when I was still using the cleat and had the Spyderline tied to the 2 SMC descending rings. Replace the 2 rings with 1, tie the Spyderline to the carabiner on the tree hugger and replace the cleat with a trucker's hitch.

The first 009_017 is a closer view of the SMC descending ring. Again take away one of the rings for what I am now using. The 2 lines coming up from the left are the suspension lines from the hammock and the green line is the ridge line. Both are attached to the SMC descending ring with a simple girth hitch (Larks head). The line leading off the the right goes to the tree hugger. Originally I tied that to the SMC descending ring and then went to the tree hugger as is usual for hammocks. I have essentially reversed that by bringing the line from the tree hugger carabiner to the descending ring at which point I either: 1. tie a round turn and 2 half hitches as shown, or 2. loop through the descending ring and back towards the tree hugger tying a trucker's hitch.

Still debating on the trucker's hitch and maybe using another hitch. I like the 3 to 1 advantage with the trucker's hitch to pull the ridge line taut. But undoing the hitch, even slipped, can be tedious. Since each line on the trucker's hitch is only carrying 1/3 of the load, I'm thinking of trying a Figure 9 to secure the end instead of the 2 half hitches. Much easier to undo, but another gadget :biggrin: .

SGT Rock
2007-08-19, 21:30
Couldn't open the link. It wants me to open an account and I can't seem to make that happen without a frineds e-mail address.

TeeDee
2007-08-19, 21:47
Couldn't open the link. It wants me to open an account and I can't seem to make that happen without a frineds e-mail address.

Didn't know that. Will have to work on finding another site for hosting the pictures. Maybe I'll just use my own web site. Will have to figure that one out.

SGT Rock
2007-08-19, 21:52
You can attache them to posts here too.

TeeDee
2007-08-20, 19:11
Okay - I have attached the old pictures of the Bridge Hammock suspension.

The first picture shows the hammock with the suspension, double rings and cleat on the left. The tree hugger is further to the left. For my current suspension replace the double rings with a single ring and replace the cleat with a trucker's hitch (maybe -see below, replacing the cleat isn't a sure thing yet). Also, in the picture the Spyderline is tied to the rings, runs to the carabiner on the tree hugger and loops back to the cleat. I have currently reversed that and tie the Spyerline to the carabiner, run to the ring and loop back with a trucker's hitch. No particular reason for doing this. It works just as well either way. I was curious and so decided to try and see how it works. That's one really nice thing about the Bridge Hammock, it is so easy to change things around and try something different. This is especially true with the spreader bars and the suspension lines. Sometimes it is easier to pull towards the hammock with the trucker's hitch than to pull towards the tree. That just depends on the terrain of the hang. I have been thinking of reversing again, it is so easy to do, you aren't locked into one way of doing things. :biggrin: The reason I will probably reverse again, i.e., tie the Spyderline to the ring, run to the carabiner, loop and tie the trucker's hitch, is simply because it is easier to clip into the carabiner than to thread through the ring. I could replace the ring with a carabiner and have a carabiner at both ends, but the ring is 0.4 oz and carabiner is 1.0 oz.

The second picture is another angle of the first.

The third picture is a close-up of the rings with the suspension lines from the spreader bars coming up from the left, the ridge line coming in level from the left and the Spyderline to the tree hugger going off to the right. I have included the last picture just to better show how I attached both the suspension line from the spreader bar and the ridge line to the ring with simple girth hitches. The suspension line first and then the ridge line lying ouside the suspension line.

I'm still dithering on that trucker's hitch or the cleat. The cleat is just SO much easier than the trucker's hitch. I can manage the cleat much easier and much faster than the trucker's hitch, both in setup and take down. Especially take down. Undoing the trucker's hitch can get frustrating on that small diameter Spyderline. The first half-hitch gets pulled very tight. The second I just slip and it comes undone with a pull on the free end. I suppose I could use the cleats and reserve the trucker's hitch for emergencies or whatever. The cleats cost me 2.5 oz - ahh decisions, decisions. Now if the large Figure 9 was the same weight and had a rating of about 800 to 900 lbs, then I would use that in a flash. But getting a Figure 9 beefed up to handle that kind of load would also boost the weight way beyond usefulness. The Monster Hitch Craft Rope Tie is 2.9 oz and about the right load rating. Beefing the Figure 9 would probably yield about the same weight as the Rope Tie. They do the same thing.

Take-a-knee
2007-08-20, 20:07
TeeDee, thanks for sharing all that valuable info, and thanks for the pictures. You gotta respect a man dedicated enough to hang a hammock indoors, I'm relegated to the backporch.

SGT Rock
2007-08-20, 22:14
So many lines it looks like some kind of sail rig on a ship.

TeeDee
2007-08-21, 22:03
So many lines it looks like some kind of sail rig on a ship.

Yes - the lines tend to get tangled when taken down. I have worked out a method of preventing that using Prussiks on the ridge line. I know a stuff sack just will not work for the Bridge Hammock for that reason. I have in mind a modification of snake skins that will eliminate the problem and make take down and put up tangle free.

I'm willing to deal (and it's really not a problem IMHO) with the multiple lines because the hammock is just so much more comfortable than any other I have ever tried. The only ones that come even close are the mayan hammocks in which you lie almost totally on the diagonal, but they are absolutely huge and much, much heavier than the Bridge Hammock. Picture a mayan hammock with all of the extra material between you and the whipping removed. I haven't weighed the Bridge recently because there are a few things I want to do to reduce the weight somewhat. But when I do weigh it, I will be including the gear loft and the built-in pillow in the weight. I weighed just the material when I was making the hammock and it was only a little over 5 oz compared to over 15 oz for the fabric in my Safari and the Bridge Hammock is as comfortable as the Safari and more so in some aspects and I can see a LOT more out of the Bridge than the Safari. The next heaviest components are the end webbing and the rings I use for the spreader bars (trekking poles or branches). The suspension lines and ridge line are all less than an oz combined. The gear loft will be about 1 oz, the rings are 3.8 oz, the SMC rings are 0.8 oz and the pillow will be about 1 oz. Add another 2 oz for the removable and adjustable draft stoppers above your head and below your feet. Add it all up and my guess is that the hammock will be about 17 to 18 oz including the webbing. Add the modified snake skins on top of that and you are probably up to maybe 20 or 21 oz. Add in approximately 7 to 8 oz for a complete bug netting, i.e., bug netting totally enclosing the hammock and I'm up to approximately 29 oz. My Hennessy ULBA with snake skin comes in at 24.65 oz. and the bug netting only covers the top of the hammock. I could make the bug netting cover only the top and cut the weight of the bug netting down to about 4 oz, bringing the weight down to approximately 25 oz. Comparable to the ULBA in weight, but with a LOT more comfort, more versatility and adjustability and easier by far to fit under quilts - a simple rectangle fits like a glove and under pads are trivially easy to fit on top of a rectangular under cover if wanted.

All in all, the suspension lines on the Bridge Hammock are a small price in my opinion for a much better hammock.

TeeDee
2007-08-25, 19:25
I've been struggling today to replace the cleat. The cleat is the lightest method of suspending beside the plain knot.

I've been using a plain knot, specifically the trucker's hitch since it gives the 3:1 advantage in pulling the suspension and the ridge line taunt.

I haven't been pleased with the trucker's hitch for 2 reasons:


abrasion - in pulling the rope taunt through the loop in the rope, there is a lot of friction on the rope and that causes abrasion and leads to premature rope failure.
untying - using the small diameter Spyderline, the half hitches securing the loose end of the rope are pulled very tight and become very hard to undo, even when slipped. With larger diameter ropes, say 7 mm and above, this is less of a problem.


So in thinking about this today I came up with 2 options:


Figure 9 - Use a large Figure 9 instead of the 2 half hitches to secure the rope after the trucker's hitch. Since the Figure 9 would only be carrying 1/3 of the load, I figured/hoped that it would be capable of working.

In practice, the Figure 9 worked not as planed. The bight through the fixed end of the Figure 9 slipped and wouldn't hold well on the 2.8 mm Spyderline. Also, even if it would have held, getting the trucker's hitch loop tied, clipping through the carabiner on the tree huggers and back to the loop, through the loop and during this process getting a bight in the rope through the hole in the Figure 9 is a real stuggle. If the Figure 9 has to then be moved on the rope for any reason, it is impossible to accomplish with the rope pulled tight.

Conclusion: the Figure 9 used in conjunction with the trucker's hitch is just not a practical option.

Carabiner - in this option I am using the carabiner as a replacement for the loop in the trucker's hitch. This eliminates the rope-on-rope friction and abrasion that plagues the trucker's hitch. The carabiner, specifically the CAMP Nano wire carabiner, is designed to reduce such friction to a minimum, pulling on the rope when looped back through the carabiner still gives the 3:1 mechanical advantage and reduces the friction and hence abrasion to a minimum. I would like to say "eliminates", but that is not possible :biggrin: .


How I am using the carabiner:


Girth Hitch - first girth hitch one end of the carabiner to the suspension rope at a convenient place. If you have used a trucker's hitch, then place the carabiner where you would normally tie the loop of the trucker's hitch - think of the carabiner as replacing the loop of the trucker's hitch. Tie the girth hitch as follows: form a bight, double the bight back on the rope and pull the rope through the bight, clip the carabiner into the loop thus formed - instant girth hitch ( aka Larks head ). Simple, easy, efficient, quick and secure.
Loop through tree hugger/carabiner - from the first carabiner, run to the tree hugger and through the end loops or clip into the carabiner which is on the tree hugger loops if you are using one there.
back to 1st carabiner - from the tree hugger run back to the first carabiner, clip into the carabiner and pull tight, as tight as you want. Always remember that you are working with a 3:1 advantage now. The force you pull with becomes 3 times that force on the hammock or the hammock ridge line. I doubt that even with the 3:1 advantage that you will be able to break the ridge line :biggrin: . Once you have the rope pulled as tight as you desire, hold the rope and clip through the carabiner again. I find that I can pinch the rope pulled over the carabiner with my fingers to hold it in place. The rope is now wrapped totally around the end of the carabiner once. Repeat and clip the loose end through the carabiner 2 more times so that the rope is now wrapped around the end of the carabiner at least 3 or 4 times. Tie a slipped half hitch, pulling a large bight through the half hitch. Using the bight of the first half hitch, tie a second half hitch. The hammock suspension is now tied and secured.


In my limited experiments today I have found that the half hitches tied to secure the loose end of the suspension rope, are not pulled tight. Thus, the multiple wraps around the carabiner are holding the rope without slipping. Even if the rope does attempt to slip around those multiple wraps, the 2 half hitchs secure the rope from slipping. Since the first half hitch is slipped and the second is tied using a bight, undoing them is easy.

Security: The suspension rope is tied using the long axis of the carabiner. This is the strongest axis of the carabiner. The CAMP Nano wire carabiner is rated at 22 KN ( 4946 lbs) along this axis so the carabiner will be able to hold whatever the hammock itself can possibly hold.

Weight analysis:


10' line: 0.64 oz
carabiner - 2: 2.0 oz
tree hugger: 0.78 oz
Total: 3.42 oz ( 6.84 oz )


This changes the weight ranking as: (I have named this new method the "Carabiner Hitch")


simple knot - no carabiner: 2.84 oz
simple knot w/carabiner: 4.84 oz
carabiner hitch: 6.84 oz
zig zag cleat: 7.34 oz
Ring Buckle: 8.336 oz oz
HitchCraft Mini Rope Tie: 9.52 oz
CC Buckle: 9.936 oz


Note: If you eliminate the carabiner on the tree hugger, then the Carabiner Hitch ties for second place in the weight rankings. :biggrin:

As you can see, the Carabiner hitch is lighter than the cleat. Only a plain knot method is lighter.

The security of the Carabiner hitch is better than any other method except the plain knot. The rating on the CAMP Nano wire carabiner exceeds that on the SMC descending rings.

Convenience: I find this method almost as convenient as the double ring method. The only thing that makes this method harder than the double rings is the placement of the carabiner on the suspension rope. It is easier than the double rings since the rope is simply clipped through the carabiner and not threaded as the webbing is for the rings. I practiced tying the girth hitch on the carabiner and found that I could do that in 2 or 3 seconds once the method is learned.

It has the advantage over the double ring method of totally eliminating the slippage problem that plagues that method.

All in all, I really like this new method. It is secure, convenient and the lightest method using anything other than plain knots.

FanaticFringer
2007-08-26, 01:49
Nicely put together TeeDee.

My cinch buckles (crazy creek) come out to 1oz. each
I suggest trying them out. They really work well.
Slippage with the rings is not a problem when you tie a slip knot at the rings.
Here's another biner that weighs 1 oz. that has recently become available:
www.rei.com/product/751528

I'm still using the ascender knot you suggested on hammock forums. I really
love this way of tying to the cinch buckles:www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=1293&catid=member&imageuser=45

oldguy52
2007-08-26, 11:41
"Once you have the rope pulled as tight as you desire, hold the rope and clip through the carabiner again. I find that I can pinch the rope pulled over the carabiner with my fingers to hold it in place. The rope is now wrapped totally around the end of the carabiner once. Repeat and clip the loose end through the carabiner 2 more times so that the rope is now wrapped around the end of the carabiner at least 3 or 4 times."

TeeDee:

I really like this 2 'biner/trucker's hitch idea of yours, but, If I may, a suggestion for your finishing knot. Rather than all that wrapping around the 'biner, if you come back to the 'biner and go down through it, come out the bottom then back up and over the standing part, then back under the 'biner and up through again. Now back out to the standing part and tie your half hitches as you decribed above. The part of the line around the 'biner should resemble the larks head on the other end of the 'biner. This shouldn't slip and should be easier and neater than making all those wraps.

I have used this knot with a single 'biner on my HH without the mechanical advantage of the trucker's hitch and it held fine.

Hope this helps.
Rik

TeeDee
2007-08-26, 13:56
a slight modification for those who watch their weight, umm the pack's weight I mean. There's a modification to the carabiner hitch that saves 1.2 oz. Replace the carabiner with an SMC descending ring - replaces 1 oz carabiner with a 0.4 oz SMC descending ring. The disadvantage over the carabiner is that you have to thread the ring to wrap instead of simply clipping through the carabiner. You still have the 3:1 mechanical advantage.

I'm editing the first post to include the carabiner hitch and the ring version in the first post to keep all methods in one post. Easier reference.

TeeDee
2007-08-26, 14:03
"Once you have the rope pulled as tight as you desire, hold the rope and clip through the carabiner again. I find that I can pinch the rope pulled over the carabiner with my fingers to hold it in place. The rope is now wrapped totally around the end of the carabiner once. Repeat and clip the loose end through the carabiner 2 more times so that the rope is now wrapped around the end of the carabiner at least 3 or 4 times."

TeeDee:

I really like this 2 'biner/trucker's hitch idea of yours, but, If I may, a suggestion for your finishing knot. Rather than all that wrapping around the 'biner, if you come back to the 'biner and go down through it, come out the bottom then back up and over the standing part, then back under the 'biner and up through again. Now back out to the standing part and tie your half hitches as you decribed above. The part of the line around the 'biner should resemble the larks head on the other end of the 'biner. This shouldn't slip and should be easier and neater than making all those wraps.

I have used this knot with a single 'biner on my HH without the mechanical advantage of the trucker's hitch and it held fine.

Hope this helps.
Rik

Yes a larks head will work very well also and hold well. Whatever works. :biggrin: and if you have been doing the larks head for a while, then by now it is easier for you.

Tried it today and I just find it easier for me to wrap and clip, repeat 3 times. Simpler for me than threading to get the larks head. The larks head on the top of the carabiner or ring doesn't require any threading of the rope which I find esy also.

TeeDee
2007-08-26, 14:06
I received information that the weight of the CC buckle is 1 oz and not the 1.6 oz I used. Since I don't have a CC buckle I took the weight from the onrope (http://www.onrope1.com) web site. They list the weight of the CC buckle (called a 1" cinch buckle, model DJ101) at 0.1 lb. which equates to the 1.6 oz I used. I will correct the first post to reflect the correct weight.

cinch buckle (http://www.onrope1.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=118&parent=29)

TeeDee
2007-08-26, 14:54
My cinch buckles (crazy creek) come out to 1oz. each
I suggest trying them out. They really work well.
Slippage with the rings is not a problem when you tie a slip knot at the rings.
Here's another biner that weighs 1 oz. that has recently become available:
www.rei.com/product/751528

I'm still using the ascender knot you suggested on hammock forums. I really
love this way of tying to the cinch buckles:www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=1293&catid=member&imageuser=45

I have decided after thinking on this for a long time and carrying the webbing too many times, that I am going back to a rope suspension.

The webbing doesn't offer any more advantage or convenience than the carabiner hitch or the ring version thereof and weighs a lot more.

The carabiner hitch gives me the 3:1 mechanical advantage that the CC buckle doesn't.

Webbing is heavy compared to dyneema rope. :biggrin: Besides I can use the rope in an emergency situation if I really, really have to whereas the webbing would be problematic for such use.

So the CC buckle is just not in my future.

But each to their own and what suits and works for them.

I have corrected the weight of the CC buckle in my analysis, but it is still much heavier than the carabiner hitch or the ring version thereof.

As for the ascender knot, I think that must have been someone else. I really never used one.

TeeDee
2007-08-26, 20:28
I really like this 2 'biner/trucker's hitch idea of yours, but, If I may, a suggestion for your finishing knot. Rather than all that wrapping around the 'biner, if you come back to the 'biner and go down through it, come out the bottom then back up and over the standing part, then back under the 'biner and up through again. Now back out to the standing part and tie your half hitches as you decribed above. The part of the line around the 'biner should resemble the larks head on the other end of the 'biner. This shouldn't slip and should be easier and neater than making all those wraps.

oldguy52 - thanks a lot for the suggestion for finishing with the girth hitch instead of the wrapping.

In trying your suggestion, I decided that I don't like threading the rope back through the loop to form the second girth hitch, but I do like the idea of using the girth hitch.

So, as I was lying in the hammock after dinner and trying to nap, finishing that second girth hitch kept going through my mind and how to tie the hitch without threading. I suddenly visualized a way to do it, immediately got up and tried it and it works pretty good.

Here's my version of tying the girth hitch without threading:


clip into carabiner and pull tight, pinch and hold the rope,
pull down and under end of carabiner and then up and over the rope from the tree hugger (so far this is the same as your method, the difference comes next),
form a bight, twist the bight 1/2 turn so that the loose end in under the working part, thus forming a loop of the bight,
clip loop formed in bight above into carabiner and pull tight. Girth hitch formed and holding. Tie half hitches as before to secure.


My only concern with replacing the wraps with the girth hitch, is that the girth hitch can and may pull very tight after I have laid in the hammock for some time and moved about.

How easy is it to untie that second girth hitch??

The wraps are trivial to undo since they cannot jam like a girth hitch possibly can.

Have you had any trouble with undoing the girth hitch after laying in the hammock?? I laid in the hammock for a few minutes and it didn't seem to bad, but that is very limited experience.

I will ty one end using the wraps and the other end using the girth hitch and after a few days of naps, try undoing the girth hitch and see how it works.

Again, thanks for the suggestion, very good.:biggrin:

More options is always good and having the option of using either the wrapping technique or the girth hitch is good.

I will again edit the first post to include this method for tying the second girth hitch.

TeeDee
2007-08-28, 14:27
Been experimenting some more with the girth hitch that oldguy52 suggested.

I like the loop method girth hitch vs the wrapping technique I started with, less clipping through the carabiner to secure, which means I hold the rope on the carabiner for a shorter time which means less chance for the rope to possibly slip back and I would have to start over.

Been using the girth hitch on one end and it doesn't seem to be jamming.

Technique I have adopted: for initial setup and getting the hammock centered, I simply clip into the carabiner and tie a slipped half hitch. Since the half hitch is only holding the loose weight of the hammock, no problem. This makes it easy to pull the half hitch for adjustments on either or both ends.

As soon as I have the hammock positioned I pull one end semi-tight and secure with either the girth hitch or wraps followed by the half hitches. Then pull real tight on the other end and secure again either with the girth hitch or wraps followed by the half hitches. This is the same technique used with buckles and webbing - adjust to center and then pull tight. Easy and convenient to do. As I wrote, the carabiner hitch is as easy and as convenient as the buckles and a LOT lighter and gives me the 3:1 mechanical advantage - I need every advantage I can get.

I think that in good, dry weather, I will use the girth hitch instead of wrapping.

In wet weather and/or when the temps drop to freezing or below, I will use the wrapping technique. Wet and/or frozen rope is a real bitch in which to untie knots. That is when the wraps will really shine, nothing to untie, nothing to jam. And cold fingers appreciate that very much. :biggrin:

Securing with either the girth hitch or the wraps works well. Just good to have both options to suit the conditions.

TeeDee
2007-08-29, 17:29
Still experimenting with the Girth hitch replacing the wrapping technique.

Today it jammed and was impossible to untie. I had to loosen the wraps on the other end to untie the girth hitch.

My recommendation: In using the second girth hitch, use it on one end only and use the wrap technique on the other end. If the girth hitch jams, you can always loosen the wraps on the other end to loosen.

It may be the small diameter, 2.8 mm rope I use. If you use a larger diameter rope for te suspension, you may not experience any problems.

BuKu
2007-09-01, 00:34
The system that works the best for my HHEA is:
SMC descending ring attached to the suspension rope with a clove hitch. This allows adjustibility and yet holds tightly. Thread tag thru a Nano carabiner that's gathered the ends of the tree hugger. Bring rope back thru the ring, make one wrap around line leading back to the "biner, pull tight, pinch wrap and drop bight loop between pinch and tree. Snug loop towards pinch and run tag end thru bight loop and tighten. This is all that I need to prevent any slippage with the thick HH suspension line. YMMV with thinner line. Take remaining tag towards the hammock and tie a half hitch for a drip string. After adjusting the ring to the necessary location, I can complete the process in fifteen seconds or so. What I've done is duplicated the principle of a trucker's hitch that is just as strong, easily adjustable, and yet is quick to untie.

TeeDee
2007-09-01, 16:23
I'm a little hazy here. Maybe you can help clarify:


The system that works the best for my HHEA is:
SMC descending ring attached to the suspension rope with a clove hitch. This allows adjustibility and yet holds tightly. Thread tag thru a Nano carabiner that's gathered the ends of the tree hugger. Bring rope back thru the ring, make one wrap around line leading back to the "biner,

Here's where I get a little hazy. Are you running back to the 'biner again after threading the ring?

That would would be the following sequence: from ring to 'biner to ring to 'biner.

It sounds like you are ending on the 'biner. Is that correct??

If I have the sequence right, then you are working with a 4:1 mechanical advantage. The friction on the 'biner, ring and 'biner again would negate some of that mechanical advantage though.


pull tight, pinch wrap and drop bight loop between pinch and tree.

I assume you are pinching the wraps around the 'biner with your fingers. Correct?

If not, then you have lost me here. :dontknow:


Snug loop towards pinch and run tag end thru bight loop and tighten. This is all that I need to prevent any slippage with the thick HH suspension line. YMMV with thinner line. Take remaining tag towards the hammock and tie a half hitch for a drip string. After adjusting the ring to the necessary location, I can complete the process in fifteen seconds or so. What I've done is duplicated the principle of a trucker's hitch that is just as strong, easily adjustable, and yet is quick to untie.

TeeDee
2007-09-01, 16:44
For those of use that do not like running small diameter rope through webbing loops (small diameter, high strength rope has been known to cut webbing quite easily) and so use the carabiner on the tree huggers for this reason as well as convenience, the carabiner can easily be replaced with an SMC ring and drop the weight by 0.6 oz.

This method assumes that the loops on the ends of the tree hugger are large enough to pass the ring through the loop.

You can do this: girth hitch the ring to one end of the tree hugger ( the easy way to do this is to push the loop through the ring, open the loop and pass it around the outside of the ring - girth hitch done), wrap the tree hugger around the tree one or more times, then girth hitch the second end to the ring again (same way as before).

You can now tie directly to the ring, e.g., with a round turn and 2 half hitches or 2 round turns and 2 half hitches, or you can use the carabiner hitch or the ring version thereof to save another 0.6 oz.

This method would be added to the weight rankings as follows:

simple knot - no carabiner or ring: 2.84 oz
simple knot w/ring: 3.64 oz
ring version of carabiner hitch w/ring on tree hugger: 4.44 oz
simple knot w/carabiner: 4.84 oz
ring version of carabiner hitch w/carabiner on tree hugger: 5.64 oz
carabiner hitch: 6.84 oz
zig zag cleat: 7.34 oz
Ring Buckle: 8.336 oz
CC Buckle: 8.736 oz
HitchCraft Mini Rope Tie: 9.52 oz


That provides a lot of options for reducing the weight and providing some convenience.

You can still have as much convenience by using rope and rings and/or carabiners as you can using webbing and get a whole lot lighter.

I'll edit the first post again to keep all of this information in that first post. :biggrin:

Take-a-knee
2007-09-03, 23:22
If I understand this last post, what is suggested here is a lashing, using the carabiner as part of the lash, rather than just wrapping the rope in the same direction around the carabiner. Come to think of it, this is not a whole lot different from the Hennessy knot (which is, of course, a lash). Using the SMC ring with a clove hitch is truly ingenious, the mechanical advantage this offers makes stringing the hammock much more efficient and takes the pressure off of the lashing. Very well done guys.

TeeDee
2007-09-04, 22:01
.... the mechanical advantage this offers makes stringing the hammock much more efficient and takes the pressure off of the lashing. Very well done guys.

Yes that is a very definite added advantage of the mechanical advantage of the Carabiner hitch. The lashing is only taking a fraction of the force exerted by the hammock suspension. Thus, any securing knot/lashing is easier to hold and tie and thus will hold a lot better.

That also becomes an advantage when it comes time to undo the knot/lashing. The smaller forces exerted on the knot/lashing means that it will not be pulled tight or as tight. Much appreciated when the knot/lashing is wet and/or cold and/or coated with ice.

Ditching the webbing has been a definite boon. An appreciable loss of weight and no loss in convenience. As a matter of fact, with the Carabiner hitch, I have gained more convenience. A big win all around.

Now if only I hadn't had to go through all that experience of carrying all of that webbing. :biggrin: But then I may not have had the incentive to develope the carabiner hitch. :biggrin:

BuKu
2007-09-06, 17:33
Finally got around to taking some pix.
Pic #1: The ring is attached with a clove hitch.
Between pic 1 and 2: If the ring is close to the 'biner, the two lines will have enough tension to keep the first wrap in place. If they're farther apart, wrap the tag around the other. The twist will provide the necessary tension. But such an action is not required as it makes it hard to stuff the succeeding wraps. Simultaneously pushing on the "hammock" side of the ring while pulling on the first wrap's tag will assist in tensioning.
Pic #2: First wrap.
Pic #3: Create bight with second wrap.
Pic #4: Tighten second wrap.
Pic #5: Bring tag through loop.

The picture series will continue with the next post.

BuKu
2007-09-06, 17:49
Picture series continued:
Pic #6 Tighten second loop and push up so that it climbs up over first loop and ends up behind it. This locks everything into place. Take tag end back towards hammock for a drip tag. To loosen, place finger behind second loop and flick back down on tag. Retract tag back through second loop and tug. This will cause the entire knot/lash to relax.
I've tried the HH lash, Speer's knot, and the double ring application and this appears IMO to be easier, faster, lighter and as secure as any.

Sorry for the confusion that I caused with my post of 8/31. I'm not familiar with the lingo.

TeeDee
2007-09-06, 18:38
Finally got around to taking some pix.
Pic #1: The ring is attached with a clove hitch.
Between pic 1 and 2: If the ring is close to the 'biner, the two lines will have enough tension to keep the first wrap in place. If they're farther apart, wrap the tag around the other. The twist will provide the necessary tension. But such an action is not required as it makes it hard to stuff the succeeding wraps. Simultaneously pushing on the "hammock" side of the ring while pulling on the first wrap's tag will assist in tensioning.
Pic #2: First wrap.
Pic #3: Create bight with second wrap.
Pic #4: Tighten second wrap.
Pic #5: Bring tag through loop.

The picture series will continue with the next post.

Thanks, BuKu. That is very close to what I use. I wrap at least once and then use slipped half hitches. Good to know that even just through and back without a full wrap will hold. I've been to much of a coward to try that. Gives me even more confidence in the method. Thanks.

yuppie_redneck
2008-01-19, 20:08
Haven't read this whole post, sorry if I duplicate.

I use a lightweight biner attached to a short lanyard with a prusik to tension my hammock. My foot is attached to a fixed loop, the head to the biner so that I can adjust to different distances between trees.

I have tried using 2 biners for a sort of 'block and tackle', but the extra tension isn't worth the extra weight. I would rather carry the extra weight as a closed cell foam pad. I did glue a tab of velcro to the hammock and the foam pad to help keep it in place. It works fairly well.