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dropkick
2008-02-14, 02:06
Okay, I have wolves killing dogs and calves in my favorite day hike / dog walk area.

I have wolves seen next to my property up the Bitterroot (where I plan to spend a large portion of my summer - with my dog).

And now I read in the paper that my cousins' neighbor just rescued his beagle from some wolves stalking it in his back yard.

So now I can't let my dog loose on my cousins' acreage either.

Crap, crap, crapedie, crap. (I'm trying to tone down my language)

This stinks, I'm being severely restricted in where I can go and what I can do by these damned introduced wolves and their idiotic protectors.

Now I have to buy material and fence my dog in on my own property, and keep my dog right next to me everywhere else, or possibly have it killed.

--And even that isn't really safe, as our local paper reported last summer about a wolf coming out of the woods and with a quick bite, gutting a 10 year old corgi just feet away from it's owner.

GGS
2008-02-14, 03:23
Policy, sadly, is like a huge pendulum. Once it gets swinging its momentum can carry it a long way off center before it finally reverses direction, only to overshoot the ideal again and swing the other way.

At one time wolves were unfairly demonized and driven to extinction throughout most of its range. Now they are being reintroduced with laws that protect them even if they destroy livestock, pets, or threaten people.

Both ends are extremes, and the best answer lies in the middle. It doesn't help (as you have pointed out in the past) that there are few objective wolf stats for the rational voter to form a proper opinion. It's either pro wolf or anti wolf.

I think part of that middle solution involves the answer to your other recent post, packing in a national park. Go ahead and introduce wolves so long as I have the right to pack a weapon and, if needed, destroy any wolf (bear, etc) that is threatening my livestock, pets, humans, or is just unacceptably bold. (Bold predators are just a problem waiting to happen)

Another major part of that middle solution is a permit hunting season. It gives DNR agencies precise control over animal populations and makes sure that any surviving population has a healthy fear of humans and avoids them and their property.

Mutinousdoug
2008-02-14, 13:29
Dropkick,
Is it not legal to protect yourself and your "livestock" from predators in Wyoming? Reactively, anyway not proactively like by poisoning or trapping.
Are you objecting to the reintroduction of wolves or a restriction on protecting yourself from them?

dropkick
2008-02-15, 00:20
Dropkick,
Is it not legal to protect yourself and your "livestock" from predators in Wyoming? Reactively, anyway not proactively like by poisoning or trapping.
Are you objecting to the reintroduction of wolves or a restriction on protecting yourself from them?

Both.

Wolves aren't an endangered species and they never were. The only reason they were reintroduced into my area (Montana) was to grant some eco-idiots' fantasy wish fulfillment. Trying to make things like they would be without people.

I can protect livestock but it isn't legal for me to protect a pet. And even when protecting livestock there are a bunch of restrictions and rules to be met.

I can legally carry a weapon in my favorite day hike area (Forest Service Land) but I couldn't legally use it to protect my dog from the wolves.

Also as the wolves have proven many times, they are quick to kill any animal they perceive as competition. If I and my dog were to come upon the wolves while hiking I would have to be dang lucky to get my dog away alive.

Mutinousdoug
2008-02-15, 13:35
That's BS that you can't protect your pet from predation.
As far as I can see reintroduction=no longer endangered/protected. I've got no problem with regulating the of shooting them but a human should be able to protect his stuff/property.
The idea of a 125lb, waist high carnivore without at least a little fear of humans is a little unsettling.
Are you concerned about lions where you're at? They're in the suburbs here along the Colorado front range right behind Boulder, Colorado Springs and Ft Collins. Constantly eating people's pets.

Redleg
2008-02-15, 21:30
My town hall has an e-mail posted on the bulletin board, It's from the Oregon Fish and Game: "...Couger sp that are found inside the incorperated limits of Cove or Union Oregon are considered vermin and may be disposed of in accordance with local city ordinances."

I love small towns in rural Oregon.
jaf

dropkick
2008-02-16, 00:22
Are you concerned about lions where you're at? They're in the suburbs here along the Colorado front range right behind Boulder, Colorado Springs and Ft Collins. Constantly eating people's pets.

We have the big cats here too. There's getting to be quite a few around here. That has some to do with the eco-idiots also, as they scream every time the cat hunters bring out their hounds.

However every once and a while when their population gets too high a cat attacks a person (usually a kid or woman) so the eco-idiots haven't been able completely shut down the hunts and the majority of the time we've been able to control the population, where they live, and also install a fear of humans in them.

For some reason they've never taken many pets in my area. Have heard of one attacking a pack horse though.

---Just an aside--
This reminded me of a conversation I had with an eco-idiot a few years ago. She (the eco-idiot) was spouting some garbage about how much she liked all the predators now living in the area. I said she wouldn't be quite as happy about it if one of them came by and ate her prize dachshunds.
She said it wouldn't change her mind.
A little later she was going on about how she would like the end her life to be as prey for a cougar.
I thought "What a naive little idiot" and went elsewhere in disgust.

Mutinousdoug
2008-02-16, 15:46
Hunting with hounds (or over bait,too, I think) is banned in Colorado so there is no practical way to hunt predators except to call coyotes. I guess neither technique would be very popular in the foothill suburbs (and ski resort towns) where all the contact is occurring anyway.
Aspen is ridiculous for bears; it's like Yellowstone park in the 1950's.
Death by cougar attack would be right up there with death while waiting to be extracted from a car wreck I'd think. Isn't their MO suffocation by biting your windpipe? Messy.

GGS
2008-02-18, 23:53
A little later she was going on about how she would like the end her life to be as prey for a cougar.
I thought "What a naive little idiot" and went elsewhere in disgust.

LOL! My thoughts exactly, how naive! The only justice here would be for her to be mauled by a cougar and survive, and as she is recovering with a couple hundred stitches holding her together re-ask that question. I'll bet our little eco-bimbo will suddenly talk about how important it is to eradicate these dangerous beasts...

KLeth
2008-02-19, 02:11
When predators becomes accustomed to man, the ones that seeks livestock ect. must be eliminated. By instinct a wolf will stay a long way from any humans, when that is no longer the case, the wolves must be removed.

If they are still a somewhat scared of humans, it can be helpful to urinate around the property, which will scent mark the area as an area of humans.

dropkick
2008-02-19, 06:52
If they are still a somewhat scared of humans, it can be helpful to urinate around the property, which will scent mark the area as an area of humans.

Cool!!!
Another excuse to pee outside.



(women just don't understand)

JPW
2008-02-19, 08:54
Because you breed your dogs, right... they would be considered livestock, fire away.

KLeth
2008-02-20, 01:38
Cool!!!
Another excuse to pee outside.
(women just don't understand)

I actually do belive that it is not a coincident that men likes to urinate outdoors, it is about marking the territorry.
My wife, the biologist does understand :biggrin:
(Btw she also thinks wolves in conflict with livestock and humans should be hunted down).

GGS
2009-09-14, 14:55
Reactivating an old thread,

Looks like they've cleared wolf hunting in Montana and Idaho. That should help install a healthy fear of humans...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32757255/ns/us_news-environment/

ran90
2009-09-16, 14:57
Up in southern idaho my cousins have a ranch and coyotes are a problem there. When a cow died we had great fun shooting anything that scampered on up to it. Coyotes aren't a problem around the ranch anymore, still a few around but they stay away.

Mutinousdoug
2009-09-16, 20:25
30 years ago, where I live now was pretty much ranch country and all you had to do to get any coyotes within earshot to hightailin' it as fast as they could go was to let off on your accelerator a little bit. Now that this is exerbia and shooting them isn't allowed, they hardly get off into the ditch when you drive by their roadkill breakfast.
Coyotes and wolves know EXACTLY how far they can push humans and their livestock and if you don't act like an Alpha predator, they are happy to assume that role.:bike: