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Bear
2008-03-29, 10:26
I would like to get some different opinions if you all donít mind, especially from some of you ex military men. My son is looking to purchase a semi automatic pistol and was leaning toward the 40 cal. I told him I thought he would be better with a 9MM as the recoil would be easier to manage, ammunition would be cheaper, and he would have a 15 round clip vs a 7 round clip.

He wants it for personal protection as he is looking at graduate school in New Orleans and will have quite a drive back and forth from home. He will also have to drive though some less than desirable areas of the city to get to the university if this is the one he decides to go to and provided he gets accepted.

I was looking at the Berretta 92fs in 9MM and liked this particular pistol. Any suggestions on different brands and models would be appreciated. Trying to keep the cost of the pistol to around $750.

oops56
2008-03-29, 12:53
If he going to shot people it makes no different they all kill.

Bear
2008-03-29, 12:54
Better him shoot than him be shot!

JRiker
2008-03-29, 13:48
9MM is a good idea because the rounds are cheaper on average. but that always depends on what rounds you buy. 40 cal may be a good idea too, but i would personally go for a 45. `10 rounds in a good clip, decent prices (even the colts aren't much more than 650 or so). who cares about recoil if it's for personal protection? hopefully he won't have to shoot it much. i don't care much for the 15 round clips myself, it makes the handgrip overly wide and uncomfortable, even with a custom grip.

oops56
2008-03-29, 15:46
Only bad thing when you do have to use it in self defense court lawyers lawsuits. paper work .And if you do make sure he lands inside the house not out side.I think a shot gun be better.

warraghiyagey
2008-03-29, 16:03
Guns, guns, guns!!!!!!!! Woohoooo!!!!!!!

john pickett
2008-03-29, 17:56
Bear,
Does your son have any experience shooting a handgun? If no, I would suggest a 22 rimfire revolver to start. Minimal recoil and noise, and a 22 in the right spot is as lethal as a 12 guage.
If he has shot a pistol and doesn't have a problem with flinching, call around and see if a gun range will let him try a variety of handguns. Many ranges, at least here in Texas, also offer concealed classes and often have a variety of weapons for training purposes.
Good luck,
John Pickett

Swingo
2008-03-29, 20:49
Bear: Best thing you can do is go to your local firing range. They'll have many different pistols to rent for a few bucks. You'll have to buy the ammo but that's fair enough. You can try out a variety of weapons at their range and see what you like. If you can, have your son take a gun safety class. Sounds like gun safety is easy and obvious and classes aren't necessary, but it's not quite as obvious as it seems. Proper habits drilled into his head from the start will keep him from accidentally shooting himself or someone else. Just a suggestion.

Mutinousdoug
2008-03-29, 20:57
I agree that a 9mm will be cheaper to practice with than just about any other SD pistol and it's effectiveness in police recorded shootings is not significantly less than the 40S&W, .357 mag or even the 45ACP (using effective ammunition). The Barretta is a huge pistol for that caliber though.
John P gives good advice in visiting a public range that rents pistols and trying a few on; especially if they have used pistols for sale in the same configuration, and a markdown that makes the purchase (after test firing) worthwhile.

dropkick
2008-03-29, 23:34
If it's just for self protection (from people) I'd go with a 9mm.

But I wouldn't go with the 15 round clip. Because as said before, for the majority of people it has an uncomfortable grip. --This does depend on his hand size, a few people like the wider grip.

Also if he plans on carrying and leaving it in his vehicle I would go for a less expensive weapon as it might be stolen. I recommend the Ruger P95, you can usually find one for about $350 and it's a good weapon.

-I also recommend some form of container for carrying it in the vehicle (as little as a zip lock bag or Tupperware container). I've had 2 weapons damaged due to moisture in vehicles.
-One under the seat, the other in a trunk - I've also had a windshield leak in a new car and the glove box fill with water.



Now my real recommendation:
Skip the semi autos and go with a revolver.
They are sturdier and have much less that can go wrong with them.
If used in self defense you aren't normally going to get into a long gun battle, so why would you need more than 5 or 6 rounds anyway?
If you want more rounds buy a speed loader.

Revolver recommendations:
A .357 magnum can also fire the lighter and less expensive .38s
For self defense I would go with a double action.
Again I recommend a less expensive Ruger - the GP100 for about $350.


A double action revolver is a nice option (pull the trigger and it fires) over a single action (have to cock it before firing each time).
-The good thing about single action is that hand cocking between shots can lead to better aim. I normally hand cock my revolvers even if they are double action (with the thumb it takes little if any time).
But as said above, for self defense being able to quickly get off the first shot can make a difference, so I'd go double action.


In any case buy your son membership at the closest local gun range and about 2000 rounds. After he has fired those he should be getting close to being able to hit what he aims at.

-I also recommend that if the gun range has a safety course that he take it.
Even if he doesn't think he needs it. Because if he has to use the gun and ends up in court (criminal or civil) being able to say you took a course can be a big help.

pure_mahem
2008-03-30, 05:56
Have you considered a Taurus they are a Berreta 92. Berreta sold there equipment to Taurus in whatever country they use to have there plant in. Same basic pistol, much cheaper around $400 and you can get a 17 round clip from Taurus. I bought one a few years back and haven't noticed any differences in performance vs. the Berreta 92 other than the name on the gun. One thing I will highly recomend when you buy your pistol purchase a speed loader for it at the same time, filling mags by hand are murder on your thumbs.

Redleg
2008-03-30, 11:09
1. buy the one that fits your hand (Index, sight picture). One less thing to fiddle with.

2. buy the one that's interesting, that you will practice with. (2a the one you practice hitting your mark with), or you loose the simplicity of confidence.

3. Carry the one you have. If you are invited to a fight, that's when you need the gun.

(personal) When you find one that fits your hand, get it in a caliber that starts with a 4 (you .357 snobs just practice more, so there).
jaf

Bear
2008-03-31, 00:15
I guess I should have stated that this is a 22 year old big man. 5í 11Ē and about 205 pounds so he can easily handle the recoil, I just figured it would be better to have more control vs. more fire power. He has also grown up around fire arms, mostly rifles, but has fired a few pistols. Ruger single action 22 and 22 mag revolver, Colt 1911 45 auto, Ruger single action 45 long colt, and Browning 22 semi auto. He has had the hunter safety course but not a firearms safety course or shooting course. The reason I was all for an auto vs. a revolver is that I have carried the Colt 1911 45cal in my truck since he was a baby. The reason is that I could leave the chamber empty and not have to worry if he got his hands on it because I knew he could not chamber a round. My truck stays locked even when it is in the garage but it was another measure of safety I used around my children. I know he will use the same precaution when he has children. To this day, my truck stays locked in my garage with the 45 in the truck with the chamber empty. And in Louisiana, your vehicle is considered an extension of your home and it is legal to carry any firearm loaded anywhere in your vehicle.

The biggest thing I wanted to know was if anyone had a particular brand and was not satisfied with that brand. I was also unaware that the 40SW comes with more than a 7 round clip. Once I discovered this and talked to a coworker that owns a Smith & Wesson 40MP and loves it, I am leaning towards it since this is the caliber that he wanted. I stopped at Cabelaís on the way home from work and looked at one and was impressed. All black, which is what he wanted, 15 round clip and $530.

Pappyhighlife
2008-03-31, 12:00
Bear, My son carries a Kahr 9MM with a 7 round magazine. Its his pocket rocket. But he is upgrading this year the the new Berreta STORM PX2 sub compact which should come out this month. Both guns are very concealable and at least the Kahr is easy to shoot.

Me I don't care for the 9 mike-mike I had to shoot a Doberman some years back that was attacking a child and it took six rounds to put it down. That gun was my issue 9MM Smith& Wesson I shot it well on the range but with real life scenarios it was lacking.

Great idea to go to the range and just rent some and use them and get a real feel for their different personalities.

Jim Henderson
2008-03-31, 13:25
This is an extremely loaded question. You could get as many answers as there are gun models to choose from. I have never shot anyone so my opinions are based upon a lot of reading and firing 10's of thousands of rounds thru probably 50 different pistols over the years.

First off, have your son take some basic safety training and do some live fire practice. A gun in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use it is often more dangerous to the user than the criminal.

Your son should be able to handle just about any caliber he desires. Often a heavier caliber gun is more comfortable to shoot than a lesser caliber, so have him play with a few.

Recoil is highly subjective and greatly affected by the weight and design of the gun and grips, so don't choose just based upon caliber

As an example, my 14yo son of average build loves to shoot full power 357 magnum rounds from my large frame Smith and he is not a bad shot at it. But he hates to shoot my 9mm Makarov, essentially a lower power 9mm in a Walther PP sized(compact) pistol. This small gun with service caliber power has a bite. Another example, I shoot 44mags all day but I dread firing my 25 caliber Baby Browning. Tiny guns are no fun to shoot, in other words, they bite hard.

So I would go with at least a medium frame revolver or a near full size auto. Good protection rounds may include but are not limited to 357, 9mm, 40, and 45ACP. 44mag is probably too much for defense and anything under 38 is questionable. If I recall correctly, the 40 was an FBI request to power down the 10mm auto pistol cartridge.

I might mention the US military choose a 9mm pistol, the Beretta 92SF? back in the 80s. Lots of howling from traditionalist. Interestingly, after a couple decades of service, we find the military seriously re-considering the 45ACP. To add fuel to the fire, for a long time, elite military units dumped their 9mms in favor for the old war horse 45. Read into this what you will. Hmmm, I prefer my 1911 45ACP any day over my Browning High Power 9mm. So I am biased to big fat cartridges making big holes.

Yes the 9's have more rounds but you read an awful lot of stories about police firing off 2 or 3 magazines full of ammo with no effect. Plus lots of old war stories of GIs getting plunked multiple times with the 9 and continuing the fight with their 45. Plus many new 45s have higher capacity than tradition.

The 357 can shoot 38 cal cartridges for practice and cheapness, but cleaning is a pita when you do this. The 9mm is available everywhere, but most full metal jacket rounds are not manstoppers, so you may need to consider expanding rounds. The 40 cals seem to be getting popular and are available in many guns. The 45ACP just goes on and on, and has a history of being a reliable manstopper. Some people seem to think the 45 is a kicker, not true, the 357 is worse and any gun can be learned and the 45 is not hard to learn. You just have to learn how to hold the pistol properly.

I am biased, but pistol choice is very personal. Have your son try a few and then have him practice. Practice is almost more important than the gun. With any reasonable gun you can make a killing hit if you know how. But stay away from smaller calibers like the 22, 25 and maybe even 380ACP. They require a good hit to a vital spot and most of the time you just PO the target.

Oh, and make sure the ammo you choose WORKS in the pistol you choose. Many semi auto pistols do not like soft bullets or hollow points or flat points or... Most autos originally were designed with the round nose full metal jacket round in mind. So make sure the ammo you use works in your gun before you stake your son's life on it.

Just my opinions,

Jim Henderson

dropkick
2008-04-01, 00:30
I have reconsidered on my 9mm recommendation.
I had one and really enjoyed it, but that was just on the range.
I apologize, but I wasn't thinking very hard beyond that.

I was against the change over from the .45 when the military did it.

The reason the military had the .45 was due to back when they were fighting the Moro in the Philippines, and the .38 long's they were using wouldn't stop the Moro.

The 9mm is a smaller round than the .38 long.

Now your son isn't likely to run into any fanatical drug using warriors, but stopping power is still a good idea.

I still like a .357 as I feel it is a more versatile weapon, but I don't have a problem with the larger calibers.

(almost bought a S & W .454 revolver the other day, but then I thought "When's the next time I'm going to be charged by a rhino?" - sure felt good in my hand though - held 7 rounds too.)

fin24000
2008-04-01, 12:55
OK one thing, how old is he? if he is 21+ then you might also look at Glock, they have large clips and are lighter then most full sized pistols however since you say he is about to be going to school I would think he is under 21 and then I would go with youth size (smaller) Remington 870 12ga (or even 20ga) as travailing long ways while not legally being old enough is not a good idea....

Bear
2008-04-01, 18:10
He is 22 years old and called me today and asked if I would like to take the concealed carry course with him. I told him sure, but I will have to look and see what kind of schedule is offered and where the course is held. I am sure there is one in the Baton Rouge area; problem for me is that I work shift work and it is sometimes difficult to do certain activities.

I told him I have been looking and so far my recommendation is the Smith & Wesson MP in 40S&W. I like the way it feels in my hand and is a little more stream lined than the Beretta 92. Also looked at the Ruger and one called Baby Eagle in 9mm made in Israel but the only thing about it was the weight. It was twice as heavy as the Smith & Wesson and as I said, the Smith just felt right in my hand. Weíll just have to wait and see until after his graduation in early May. He will be home for a few weeks before we hit the trail and he and I can go look until his hearts content. There are six major sporting goods and gun stores in about a 20 mile radius so we will have plenty to choose from.

Thanks to all for their input.

FireFighter56
2008-04-02, 00:55
don't need a big clip if u "know your gun" as i say ...should never need more than 2 shots to hit a target of any kind 1 should do it...but sometimes it takes 2 if there is fog of anything that may take a 2nd shot....i won't take a shot at a deer if i can't hit it with the first shot.....or if it's too young .....i had many deer in my scope....just won't shoot anything ok i'm getting away from the sub. at hand a 9MM is more than most ppl can handle.....take out a .22 cal befor u take out a 9 or anything bigger to see how u fair....thats how i feel i always start ppl out on a .22 to see what i'm dealling with....than the 9......a 9mm is a great gun in the right hands .....i have a Kel-Tec P11 9mm and i love that gun ...i carry it everywhere.....even on hikes it's a sub-com. so after 20 yards if u never fired it...u woud be lost but i'm good a 75 yards with it......know your gun befor u intend to use it...thas what i say...if a 45 is your think...hey to his or her there own......i do this when i pick a pistol.....put it in your hand ....put it up as if u ae shooting it...and close your eyes....if it drops....it's to heaey for u....just a lil trick that works for me...may not work for everyone....just something i learned over the years

01yz426
2008-04-02, 01:51
He is 22 years old and called me today and asked if I would like to take the concealed carry course with him. I told him sure, but I will have to look and see what kind of schedule is offered and where the course is held. I am sure there is one in the Baton Rouge area; problem for me is that I work shift work and it is sometimes difficult to do certain activities.

I told him I have been looking and so far my recommendation is the Smith & Wesson MP in 40S&W. I like the way it feels in my hand and is a little more stream lined than the Beretta 92. Also looked at the Ruger and one called Baby Eagle in 9mm made in Israel but the only thing about it was the weight. It was twice as heavy as the Smith & Wesson and as I said, the Smith just felt right in my hand. Weíll just have to wait and see until after his graduation in early May. He will be home for a few weeks before we hit the trail and he and I can go look until his hearts content. There are six major sporting goods and gun stores in about a 20 mile radius so we will have plenty to choose from.

Thanks to all for their input.


The S&W MP .40 is a nice gun... Also check out the Sig Saur P229's in either a .40 or 9mm, in my opinion Sig's and Kimber's are the best handguns made... Also newer on the market is the HK P-30 9mm which I'm looking into getting soon...

Nearly Normal
2008-04-02, 21:58
I would like to get some different opinions if you all donít mind, especially from some of you ex military men. My son is looking to purchase a semi automatic pistol and was leaning toward the 40 cal. I told him I thought he would be better with a 9MM as the recoil would be easier to manage, ammunition would be cheaper, and he would have a 15 round clip vs a 7 round clip.

He wants it for personal protection as he is looking at graduate school in New Orleans and will have quite a drive back and forth from home. He will also have to drive though some less than desirable areas of the city to get to the university if this is the one he decides to go to and provided he gets accepted.

I was looking at the Berretta 92fs in 9MM and liked this particular pistol. Any suggestions on different brands and models would be appreciated. Trying to keep the cost of the pistol to around $750.

How much handgun experience does your son have?
A semi-auto is a weapon that needs more handling experience than a revolver.
Will he need a carry permit and for more than one state.
Lots of responsibilities involved to carry a gun.
Most people carrying pistols don't have a clue how to handle, clean, store or have any bussiness with it to start with.

dropkick
2008-04-02, 23:16
Most people carrying pistols don't have a clue how to handle, clean, store or have any bussiness with it to start with.
I strongly disagree with this statement.
Many people that you don't even know about carry.
Usually the only people that you hear about are the ones that misuse the right, and most of the ones that you personally know about are idiots (which is the very reason why you know they carry).
The responsible users are the ones you don't hear about, the people who don't advertise it.
There are many of these people out there.

If you join a range you might meet some.

FireFighter56
2008-04-03, 01:29
i agree.....hell...my wife didn't even know i had one on me may of times nor the ppl i am around.....the reason i carry the gun i carry is to keep it to myself.....i know it's there and thats all that counts......should never let everyone and there mother know u have on on u...not safe and not smart in my book...that is somthing i keep between me myself and my wife...oh and god lol....but the wife knows me too well....heck...she yelled at me for taking it to church lol..(u better not have that damn HG on u.......u do...i know u to well..)))....i won't tell u what she said after that lol....anyway....tell only who needs to know and thats u yourself and i.......or your wife in my case....

Bear
2008-04-03, 02:11
He does not have a lot of hand gun experience but does have a fair amount of firearm experience. He is a very responsible individual and he and I have shot different weapons many times at our hunting camp. When he was 16, he was allowed to travel over 100 miles alone to our hunting camp for several days at a time when I could not go due to work. He was not alone at the club but was alone in our camp. I talked to the club president and secretary about him being there without me to ensure they were Ok with it and it was not a problem. They both knew him well and knew he was an individual that they did not have to worry about. I drilled firearm safety into him since he was a toddler and it has stuck. When he decides which pistol he wants, I will make sure he has hundreds of rounds of ammunition to become proficient with the weapon. He also wants to take the concealed carry course and hopefully weíll be able to do it together. He mainly wants the weapon to have in his vehicle while traveling back and forth to school if his final decision is to go to graduate school and he is accepted to this school in New Orleans. He is not one to let it be known that he is carrying if he decides to have it with him.

FireFighter56
2008-04-03, 02:16
i say good for him and do everything u can along his way to help him out as u have bin doin....it's good to see there are some young ppl out there that can be trusted with a handgun.....as long as u know he is smart about having it on his person than that is a start.....and it's good to know he wants to take a course io handguns befor he gets himself a permit to carry that shows alot in a person to me.....hope he picks a good firearm.....me i'm a 9mm guy....some of my friends are all about there 45's.....i like the 9mm for the fact that it's not a big gun nor is it small and the rounds are cheap to buy...to his there own as i say

73Elsinore
2008-04-03, 20:54
One thing to remember is that shooting a handgun in a combat or self-defense situation is night and day different than a fun afternoon of shooting at a range or plinking at cans out in the desert. In a combat/defense situation, your adrenaline is off the scale, your heart rate is 200+, etc. Think you can hit that target when you can't see straight from adrenaline, and you have exactly 2.8 seconds to make the decision to run or fight? And that target is likely cranked out of his mind?

Taking another life, even in self-defense, is a very serious consideration and must be approached knowing that if it happens you will be faced with a legal and personal maelstrom for months if not years afterwards. I suggest reading any of the books by Massad Ayoob - 'In the Gravest Exteme' is excellent.

Also, get thee to a range where they have combat training for pistol and two-gun or three-gun competitions. You will get practice in real-life combat and defense shooting situations. Plus a two gun range/competition is tons of fun!

Thanks! Pete

oops56
2008-04-03, 21:06
My defense house gun is my shot gun.

Mutinousdoug
2008-04-03, 22:03
At the risk of casting a pall on this thread, may I suggest that anyone who prepares to defend themselves by any violence should also investigate a local attorney versed in such law and keep a contact number handy. There is no need to retain one in anticipation of an incident but having the number of an office to call afterwards would be a prudent back-up. Anyone who has occasion to (successfully) defend themselves (unsuccessful need not bother) is going to be talking to the police (and most probably a prosecutor). Your (somewhat excited?) after-action police interview can be used against you in court by your adversary or his/her heirs.

Nearly Normal
2008-04-03, 22:16
I hunted all my life and belong to a skeet and trap club.
I'm the most familiar with shotguns and re-loading.
I own hand guns but never bothered to get good with one. It cost too much money for me to do so.
I have enough hobies that cost.
I'm am more comfortable with a six shooter. My semi-auto Browning is a fine weapon and an older model well kept. But I would have to shoot many more rounds through it than I'm willing to make it my carry piece.
It all in what you want.
I'm rational enough to know more accidents are probable with a semi-auto and the inexperienced.
Get him the training he needs no matter what yall choose.

lucky luke
2008-04-04, 12:16
hi bear,

maybe you should think about getting him a girlfriend that does body-building?

greets
lucky luke

GGS
2008-04-04, 15:18
At the risk of casting a pall on this thread, may I suggest that anyone who prepares to defend themselves by any violence should also investigate a local attorney versed in such law and keep a contact number handy. There is no need to retain one in anticipation of an incident but having the number of an office to call afterwards would be a prudent back-up. Anyone who has occasion to (successfully) defend themselves (unsuccessful need not bother) is going to be talking to the police (and most probably a prosecutor). Your (somewhat excited?) after-action police interview can be used against you in court by your adversary or his/her heirs.

Along the lines of Mutinousdoug's post I have been thinking of the posts about magazine size. Trying to justify to police /prosecutors /jury that you fired a shot in self defense is one thing. Trying to explain why you were carrying a pistol with enough firepower and ammo rounds to take out a small army "just for protection" might just make proving your innocence that much more difficult.

In short firing a shot at - or using a gun to threaten - a two legged predator is going to involve a lot of intense questioning from police. The more you can do to show that you did possess the gun only for protection and that you didn't intend to use it the better. My two cents.

Of course if protecting yourself from a large 4 legged predator then the more lead you can chuck in its direction the better. ;-)

Bear
2008-04-04, 18:32
Lucky Luke, anyone challenging this young man without a weapon needs his head examined. He wants it as a last resort due to the area he will have to be in at this university. He works out 3 to 4 days a week and is strong as an ox. He is usually the intimidator, not deliberately, just due to size.

Maybe you did not see or remember all the thugs that came out of the wood work during hurricane Katrina. Unfortunately, contrary to what some people want to believe, there are people in this world that are just bad. They will be bad even if they donít have some sort of weapon. Some use guns, some knives, hammers, baseball bat, etcÖ Letís face it, if a person is no good, he will use what ever to steal, rape, hurt, murder, or what ever he decides. I donít want any member of my family to become a statistic.

oops56
2008-04-04, 19:18
Yep just wait tell we get into the ice age again lots of shoot ups no food no gas no wood to burn.

Onkel Bob
2008-04-04, 21:43
I'm with Drop Kick and Mutinous, double action revolver and lawyer up.
Think about this logically, one shot as a warning usually scatters the fool(s) thinking (t)he(y) found a soft target. If a second and third shot is needed, those are all you're going to be squeeze off anyway. 5 rounds, keeping the chamber under the hammer empty, it the safest route.
Keep in mind - even with a concealed permit, he may be prohibited from carrying it on campus. (They can and will suspend/expel students disobeying that rule.) Therefore he may be forced to leave it in the car when he's at class.
Personally, I like a chain saw. A friend and me were returning from working at the Girl Scout camp. Driving through Bridgeport CT, we were stopped at a light. My friend wanted to have some fun so he deliberately stalled the truck. A group of unsavory characters saw these two skinny dudes and thought we were easy pickings. No sooner does two of them start crossing the street when he jumps out reaches in the truck bed, pulls out a chain saw and starts pulling on the cord. They ran faster then Jesse Owens. Freaking hilarious in hindsight, I wasn't all that enamored with the activity when it happened, 30 years ago!

Bear
2008-04-04, 22:06
I stated the reason earlier why I prefer an automatic, but once he starts looking, he may go with a revolver. It will be up to him as he will be the one using the weapon. He will be doing some shooting this weekend with his cousin who was in the military and has an assortment of autos so he will get a good feel for them.

One of the reasons he wants to take the concealed carry course is it will give him the information as to where he can and cannot carry the weapon.

I like the chain saw story. I would have run too!!!

Nearly Normal
2008-04-05, 08:26
Lead filled snow shoe.

mark28
2008-04-05, 14:09
i'm a retired police officer. i was one of the firearms instructors that was involved with the evaluation & selection of a new handgun when my dept. transitioned from revolvers (s&w 686 ss .357 magnum , 4") to a atuo pistol.
the short version was we used everyone from gun nuts to new guys( inc. small females) to people who were so-so shots as well as swat guys etc. to shoot & evaluate every relavant handgun available.
the overall concensus was nothing compared to glocks as being utterly reliable, accurete & easy for all concerned to handle & shoot.
the experence of of my & majority other police depts accross the usa has proved out the wisdom of that selection.
my suggestion, .... IF & i mean IF your are an experienced shooter , or will work to become one,you would be hard put to beat a full sized glock 22 in .40s&w for an all around great choice . or if you need to carry concealed a glock 23 or 27 are excellant choices! bear in mind tho, that the smaller the handgun the more skill is needed to shoot it skillfully!!! the .40 s&w is a superior rounds & is only slightly more difficult to learn to shoot accuretely over the 9mm (which is a marginal caliber).
if you are NOT skilled and/or will not work to be so , i strongly suggest you stay away from auto pistols, the manual of arms/operation does take training & safe applacation to use them!
for those who dont like auto pistols the old reliable s&w models 10, 64,65, 686 are great handguns .38/.357! i would use .38 caliber glaser safety slugs or magtech prefragmented ammo . regardless if you will not take the time to learn & apply that knowledge... dont buy any handgun, you will likely be more of a danger to all involved than the bad guy would be.

mark28
2008-04-05, 14:15
i'm a retired police officer. i was one of the firearms instructors that was involved with the evaluation & selection of a new handgun when my dept. transitioned from revolvers (s&w 686 ss .357 magnum , 4") to a atuo pistol.
the short version was we used everyone from gun nuts to new guys( inc. small females) to people who were so-so shots as well as swat guys etc. to shoot & evaluate every relavant handgun available.
the overall concensus was nothing compared to glocks as being utterly reliable, accurete & easy for all concerned to handle & shoot.
the experence of of my & majority other police depts accross the usa has proved out the wisdom of that selection.
my suggestion, .... IF & i mean IF your are an experienced shooter , or will work to become one,you would be hard put to beat a full sized glock 22 in .40s&w for an all around great choice . or if you need to carry concealed a glock 23 or 27 are excellant choices! bear in mind tho, that the smaller the handgun the more skill is needed to shoot it skillfully!!! the .40 s&w is a superior rounds & is only slightly more difficult to learn to shoot accuretely over the 9mm (which is a marginal caliber).
if you are NOT skilled and/or will not work to be so , i strongly suggest you stay away from auto pistols, the manual of arms/operation does take training & safe applacation to use them!
for those who dont like auto pistols the old reliable s&w models 10, 64,65, 686 are great handguns .38/.357! i would use .38 caliber glaser safety slugs or magtech prefragmented ammo . regardless if you will not take the time to learn & apply that knowledge... dont buy any handgun, you will likely be more of a danger to all involved than the bad guy would be.

Iceman
2008-04-09, 00:20
... Trying to justify to police /prosecutors /jury that you fired a shot in self defense is one thing. Trying to explain why you were carrying a pistol with enough firepower and ammo rounds to take out a small army "just for protection" might just make proving your innocence that much more difficult.

In short firing a shot at - or using a gun to threaten - a two legged predator is going to involve a lot of intense questioning from police. The more you can do to show that you did possess the gun only for protection and that you didn't intend to use it the better. My two cents.

Of course if protecting yourself from a large 4 legged predator then the more lead you can chuck in its direction the better. ;-)

It is always better to have too much firepower than not enough. You can fire 300 rounds in self defense if that is what was needed. And, you simply have to state that you fired until the threat was diminished.

Crap! GGS! If you have a gun on your body, and need to use it as a method of self defense, you need no further explanation. If you feel as though your life is in jeopardy, you better be pulling the gun with the intent of using it. Think not of using your gun to threaten someone with, but as a way to save your or someone elses life. The bad guy decides which way to leave, threatened from you, or in a box. You seem over worried about having to explain your actions to someone later. It is very simple. Life in jeopardy? You have the right to take life to save a life. Nobody is going to question the fact that you brought a 12 shooter instead of a 6 shooter.

And regarding your comment about how you feel that there is more value with protecting yourself from an animal versus a human? What is the difference? Personally, I fear humans more than animal threats..... Humans kill humans, often. Bears only do it occasionally. I say bring enough firepower to do the job on both.

GGS
2008-04-09, 15:24
It is always better to have too much firepower than not enough. You can fire 300 rounds in self defense if that is what was needed. And, you simply have to state that you fired until the threat was diminished.

Crap! GGS! If you have a gun on your body, and need to use it as a method of self defense, you need no further explanation. If you feel as though your life is in jeopardy, you better be pulling the gun with the intent of using it. Think not of using your gun to threaten someone with, but as a way to save your or someone elses life. The bad guy decides which way to leave, threatened from you, or in a box. You seem over worried about having to explain your actions to someone later. It is very simple. Life in jeopardy? You have the right to take life to save a life. Nobody is going to question the fact that you brought a 12 shooter instead of a 6 shooter.

And regarding your comment about how you feel that there is more value with protecting yourself from an animal versus a human? What is the difference? Personally, I fear humans more than animal threats..... Humans kill humans, often. Bears only do it occasionally. I say bring enough firepower to do the job on both.

I am merely pointing out that after using a gun to defend yourself against a two legged predator you WILL find yourself defending your actions against other kinds of two legged predators - the ones that wear suits and ties, carry a briefcase, and have the luxury of all the time they need to decide what you should have done different, despite the fact you had seconds or less under duress to make that choice yourself. If those predators don't like your solution, they will charge you with a crime, one that could result in years or a lifetime of imprisonment. Following that is the nastier kind of suit-and-tie predator that will try to get you to compensate the families of your "victim".

Two cases that illustrate the point - Bernhard Goetz, aka the "subway vigilante" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz. Cornered by four hoodlums intent on robbing him he shot them - and wound up spending 8 months in jail and lost a $45 million lawsuit against one of the would-be robbers that he wounded. Comments he made some 18 months before the shooting happened ended up being used as evidence against him during the trial.

Another case - sorry I don't have a link, it happened years ago here locally - was a woman who shot her ex boyfriend in self defense. The man was screaming profanely that he was going to kill everyone in the house and was in the process of smashing down the front door when the woman, standing at the far end of the living room, pulled the trigger. The woman was charged with murder/manslaughter because the man was technically "outside" the house while she was inside and the man hadn't come within four feet of the woman which apparently is the "magic perimeter" needed to justify self defense. Fortunately for the poor woman she was acquitted but not without suffering imprisonment, trial, and the thousands it costs to defend oneself in a felony case.

So I'm just saying... Be careful, and think all your choices through up to and including what type of gun you buy "for protection". Poor choices could come back to haunt you and wreck your life. Not a bad idea either to get a briefing on the self-protection laws from one of those suit-wearing briefcase-carrying two-legged predators, much as I hate to give them any more money than society already has.

FireFighter56
2008-04-10, 01:20
we can go on and on on this sub......everyone is goin to have there fav or the "one to get" remember this...it's what u like....and what makes u feel safe a night......and thats all that counts...just make sure u can shoot it and be good at it...like i say i'm a 9mm guy may not be for everyone...but it's for me.....what u like is your thing......just remember this...there are others out there with u....shoot safe and think of others.....and for god sakes...be safe

Iceman
2008-04-11, 09:20
GGS, sorry if I sounded a bit crabby...

I hear you. They can't sue you if they are six feet under, is a though I have heard mentioned before.

Firefighter, good point and reminder, you may be using your weapon to defend someone else as well.

SowthEfrikan
2008-04-11, 18:34
The berretta 92 is a pretty good choice as long as you don't have to carry it concealed on your body because of its size. If you can't stop someone with 10 rounds of 40 calibre you probably should have a swat team behind you. A Kimber 1911 style 45 calibre might also be nice but that is the whole single action vs auto debate. My husband bought me a Kahr k-9 which is a lovely little compact 9mm, designed to be concealed, and luverly for women.

Bear
2008-04-12, 00:41
I looked at the Beretta and liked it but after talking to my nephew who was in the military, I have decided against that particular pistol. He told me that everyone he went through training with could not put all 15 rounds through a head target silhouette. He said at least 3 of the 15 would go wide. Donít know why but it was not my favorite anyway. I still like the Smith & Wesson M&P but still looking at a Sig. I saw a Kahr for the first time today and really liked them especially for concealed carry. Problem is that he has got me wanting one and if I were to get everything I liked, I would probably wined up getting about 5 or 6 of them. I really donít need any, just want. I also want a Tica 243, a Leopold 4.5-14 50MM BDC illuminated scope, and a Burris 6 Ė 24 BDC 44MM scope. Those I just want also, donít need necessarily, just like to have.

Oh well, off to work I goÖ

Bear
2008-05-12, 10:12
Had to wait until he got his graduation present before I could post this incase he visited this site. I got him the Smith & Wesson M&P in 40S&W and 9mm. I also got him a Bersa Thunder in 380 and the new Ruger LCP 380. I got the Crimson Trace laser sight for the 40 M&P along with 600 rounds of ammo in each caliber. He was one happy young man, especially Saturday morning when we went shooting. I had to break down and get myself the CZ 75 P-01 compact in 9mm. My wife was shooting with us and liked my CZ and his Bersa. I can see I will have to go shopping with her sometime soon to see what fits her hand and what she prefers.

SGT Rock
2008-05-12, 10:18
Sweet graduation gifts.

Take-a-knee
2008-05-12, 17:12
If I could only own one handgun it would be a Glock 19 (9mm). It is small enough to carry concealed and big enough to hold enough rounds to enable you to fight your way to a rifle.

I'd put Heine straight-eight nite sites on it with the speed cut and install a Ghost Rocket 3.5# connector. Get a Blade tech holster and double mag carrier and book Randy Cain's Handgun 101 class as soon as he was training within driving distance. Google Cumberland Tactics/ Randy Cain and look for Class Schedule.

Bear
2008-05-12, 19:54
Thanks but he has gotten all the hand guns he is going to get from me for a while. Next thing for me is the Tikka rifle in 243 or a pistol for my wife/me.