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SGT Rock
2008-05-07, 18:46
http://www.naaminis.com/magnum.html

http://www.naaminis.com/pix/msNEW.jpg
Anyone with experience with this firearm? 5.9oz for a .22 mag.

Geo.
2008-05-07, 19:35
No experience Sarge - pistol free trails here in NZ! But looks good. This bloke seemed to like it http://http://randywakeman.com/naa22minirevolver.htm

Looks like you'd have to get up close and personal with it, which I guess is when it could be needed anyhow. Spotted one comment that the ramp on the end of the barrel isn't a sight - it's a device to stop the barrel from slipping out the nostril of someone who's tying to snatch your primary weapon. ;)
One thing, your bum ankle should be able to handle the recoil!
Geo.

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-08, 00:35
I have NEVER seen one of these at my gunclub so I don't think people shoot them much.
A buddy of mine FOUND a similar model in a junk box he bought (not Magnum) and kept it in his car for a while. My impressions:
1) Unpleasant to shoot. Manageable, but not pleasant.
2) Inaccurate unless you were shooting something rather large and rather close. (sort of an issue since even the .22 Mag in a 1.5" barrel is little more than a FMJ target pistol load). As a survival tool it's usefulness would be restricted to slow moving threats/prey such as snapping turtles or porkypines. Forget squirrels, rabbits or jays (nom nom nom!).
3) Single action=slow 2nd shot/target aquisition ( no sights to speak of so not really an issue)
4) SST=rust resistant=pack it and forget it until needed.
5) Loud and lots of muzzle flash so may be effective as a signaling device.
6) Relatively expensive ammo, but you won't be shooting a lot of it so not much of an issue.

CaSteve
2008-05-08, 02:27
I've been thinking a bit bigger:

http://www.henryrepeating.com/h002_survival.cfm

Anyone with experience with one?

SGT Rock
2008-05-08, 17:41
I have NEVER seen one of these at my gunclub so I don't think people shoot them much.
A buddy of mine FOUND a similar model in a junk box he bought (not Magnum) and kept it in his car for a while. My impressions:
1) Unpleasant to shoot. Manageable, but not pleasant.
2) Inaccurate unless you were shooting something rather large and rather close. (sort of an issue since even the .22 Mag in a 1.5" barrel is little more than a FMJ target pistol load). As a survival tool it's usefulness would be restricted to slow moving threats/prey such as snapping turtles or porkypines. Forget squirrels, rabbits or jays (nom nom nom!).
3) Single action=slow 2nd shot/target aquisition ( no sights to speak of so not really an issue)
4) SST=rust resistant=pack it and forget it until needed.
5) Loud and lots of muzzle flash so may be effective as a signaling device.
6) Relatively expensive ammo, but you won't be shooting a lot of it so not much of an issue.Just thinking of somethng small that would make a lot of noise and inflict the correct pain if it is ever required. Something small and easy to put in irregular places. The single action was a concern however. I'd like to find something this small that is hammerless and double action - but that would be a pipe dream.

I've already got a .22 mag pistol, but it isn't small or light (Ruger Super Single Six SS) so I already have ammo sitting around. I don't plan on doing a lot of target shooting with this. I also don't plan to have this take down bears or shoot for game.

SGT Rock
2008-05-08, 17:42
I've been thinking a bit bigger:

http://www.henryrepeating.com/h002_survival.cfm

Anyone with experience with one?
Those are nice. I already have a Ruger 10/22 for teaching the boys weapon handling and shooting skills.

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-08, 18:13
Just thinking of somethng small that would make a lot of noise and inflict the correct pain if it is ever required. Something small and easy to put in irregular places. The single action was a concern however. I'd like to find something this small that is hammerless and double action - but that would be a pipe dream.

I've already got a .22 mag pistol, but it isn't small or light (Ruger Super Single Six SS) so I already have ammo sitting around. I don't plan on doing a lot of target shooting with this. I also don't plan to have this take down bears or shoot for game.

Top,
You might look into a KelTec P3AT or whatever their designation for their .32 and .380ACP pistols. I'm pretty sure they are less than 7 oz (probably empty) and they are DAO and hammerless. Strictly a SD firearm but they've been around for a while now so the latest revision pistols are widely reviewed as a reliable pocket pistol or BUG. IIRC the .32 is a 7 shot and the .380 is a 6 shooter. Ruger has come out with a competitor for the .380 that is a virtual twin for the Keltec but it's so new that the jury is still out as to reliability, etc. Either should be available for +/-$300 new?

Doug

SGT Rock
2008-05-08, 18:15
I'll look at those for sure. I'm a Ruger man - own 3 of them. I had a fourth but sold it.

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-08, 18:33
I used to have a Single Six with a 9" barrel that I shot Shilouette with years ago. I guess I still have 3: a 10-22, a Mark II 6 7/8" and an Old Army cap and ball gun.
Ruger is a good company. Their products are not what I'd call refined but they are reliable and robust.

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-08, 18:41
The Keltec site lists the .380 at 8.2 oz empty and 2.8 oz for a loaded magazine so that's going to count against it with you gram weenies.

SGT Rock
2008-05-08, 18:41
I've got a Ruger P90 .45ACP, a Ruger 10/22, a Ruger Super Single Six SS, a Remington 870 12ga, and a Savage 10LE 7.62mm.

I'd like to get a little BU kind of gun and someday a FAR-15 just because.

SGT Rock
2008-05-08, 18:43
I looked at the KelTec P32 which comes in at 6.6 oz, 2.8oz for a loaded mag. Not bad for an UL.

Amigi
2008-05-08, 19:29
Awhile back, I wrote a post about the henry survival rifle. I tested one at Gander and didnt like it. It was too "plastic", the sights were awful, and it was very awkward.

CaSteve
2008-05-08, 20:17
I have a S&W Sigma 380. Very packable. I was just looking at their website. It looks like the no longer make it. However, it also suffer from the small gun accuracy problem (or maybe it's me).

Take-a-knee
2008-05-08, 22:05
I looked at the KelTec P32 which comes in at 6.6 oz, 2.8oz for a loaded mag. Not bad for an UL.

I have one that works great, a friend had one that wouldn't run after two trips back to Keltec. I'd try the Ruger or maybe this:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14742&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y

SGT Rock
2008-05-08, 22:08
Nice, but a bit more than I wanted. I saw a video of the Ruger - it doesn't have a slide lock feature. The KelTec has a slide lock but no safety. Hmmm..

Interesting looking gun too, the Kel Tec PLR-16. Obviously heavier than I was talking and not as easy to conceal - but still cool looking.http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/plr16.html

Take-a-knee
2008-05-08, 22:12
Awhile back, I wrote a post about the henry survival rifle. I tested one at Gander and didnt like it. It was too "plastic", the sights were awful, and it was very awkward.

Somebody makes a folding stock for a Ruger 10/22. You can buy a 16in barrel from Tactical Solutions that will be a tack-driver. It'll be a pound or two heavier and won't float like the Henry but it'll work and hit where you aim.

SGT Rock
2008-05-08, 22:41
Hey, did you see this: http://www.equipped.org/Kel-Tec_SU-16_Review.htm
I saw the picture of the thing in a Hawg, and it apparently gets pretty darn small.

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-08, 22:52
I have a S&W Sigma 380. Very packable. I was just looking at their website. It looks like the no longer make it. However, it also suffer from the small gun accuracy problem (or maybe it's me).

It's not you Steve; it's the nature of the beast: It takes "x" amount of energy to fire a cartridge. That energy is imparted to the primer by the release of the sear and the fall of the hammer or striker. The lower the ratio of firearm mass to hammer/striker fall energy; the more the gun is disturbed before the bullet leaves the muzzle. Add to that a stiff/gritty/long trigger pull, short sight radius and miniscule, shiney/glairy sights? It's not a target gun. There is a reason the 1911-A1 .45 ACP weighs 39 oz. and it hasn't anything to do with the power of the cartridge. A decent .22 target gun will weigh 36 oz.

Take-a-knee
2008-05-08, 23:22
Nice, but a bit more than I wanted. I saw a video of the Ruger - it doesn't have a slide lock feature. The KelTec has a slide lock but no safety. Hmmm..

Interesting looking gun too, the Kel Tec PLR-16. Obviously heavier than I was talking and not as easy to conceal - but still cool looking.http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/plr16.html

No slide lock isn't a big deal, just do the old tap-rack-bang, IE tap/slam the fresh mag home, yank the rear of the slide to the rear and let it fly forward. I've done this with a Glock so much I only lose about a half-second over using the slide release. This makes for commonality of training, the mag change and the first malfunction drill are essentially the same.

On second thought it may be difficult to actually grab the rear of the slide since it is so small and thin, a glock slde is like grabbing a 2x4, kinda hard to miss. Reloading any pocket pistol is problematic anyway 'cause your hand is in the way of inserting the mag, so these sorts of guns aren't proper fighting pistols IMO, most folks would really fumble the mag change under the stress of an actual fight. Probably better to transition to a blade. It is gettin' real ugly at that point.

As for the Kel-Tec SU16, a friend had one of the earlier ones and liked it a lot, it was reasonably accurate. With M855 it would hold about 4in off the integral bipod at 100yd with a Burris Speed Dot sight, plenty accurate enough for what it is. The new ones are barely recognizable as a gun when they are folded, that might be an asset in some circles. If you reload you can download a 223/556 to down near 22 Hornet/22 Mag velocity. Could be quite useful.

Take-a-knee
2008-05-08, 23:24
It's not you Steve; it's the nature of the beast: It takes "x" amount of energy to fire a cartridge. That energy is imparted to the primer by the release of the sear and the fall of the hammer or striker. The lower the ratio of firearm mass to hammer/striker fall energy; the more the gun is disturbed before the bullet leaves the muzzle. Add to that a stiff/gritty/long trigger pull, short sight radius and miniscule, shiney/glairy sights? It's not a target gun. There is a reason the 1911-A1 .45 ACP weighs 39 oz. and it hasn't anything to do with the power of the cartridge. A decent .22 target gun will weigh 36 oz.

Good point, this is one of the first things Larry Vickers teaches his students. If you have a two pound gun with an eight pound trigger, and poor trigger control, you ain't gonna hit much.

SGT Rock
2008-05-08, 23:33
No slide lock isn't a big deal, just do the old tap-rack-bang, IE tap/slam the fresh mag home, yank the rear of the slide to the rear and let it fly forward. I've done this with a Glock so much I only lose about a half-second over using the slide release. This makes for commonality of training, the mag change and the first malfunction drill are essentially the same.

On second thought it may be difficult to actually grab the rear of the slide since it is so small and thin, a glock slde is like grabbing a 2x4, kinda hard to miss. Reloading any pocket pistol is problematic anyway 'cause your hand is in the way of inserting the mag, so these sorts of guns aren't proper fighting pistols IMO, most folks would really fumble the mag change under the stress of an actual fight. Probably better to transition to a blade. It is gettin' real ugly at that point.
I know what you mean. And I am trying to think of which I would rather have. Two trains of thought...

1. In a defense shoot and run scenario I would imagine having a safety that could be quickly thumed off and fire with one already in the pipe - then get away before worrying about re-load.

2. In the other way of thinking with a slide lock - reload would be easy, but carrying one in the pipe would be slightly more hazardous.

Now if my wife was the primary carrier I think I would want a safety and would care less about a rapid reload. Just thinking out loud.


As for the Kel-Tec SU16, a friend had one of the earlier ones and liked it a lot, it was reasonably accurate. With M855 it would hold about 4in off the integral bipod at 100yd with a Burris Speed Dot sight, plenty accurate enough for what it is. The new ones are barely recognizable as a gun when they are folded, that might be an asset in some circles. If you reload you can download a 223/556 to down near 22 Hornet/22 Mag velocity. Could be quite useful.
I was thinking the same thing. You could carry the Kel-Tec SU16C and a couple of differnt loads in seperate magazines. So if you were to want to shoot rabbits or other small game then you could have some 22 level loads (may cause short cycle though - you think?) and for shooting pigs, deer, and what ever else you could have normal .223. Last I heard the pig pokers in the park were using .223 for boars.

I like this idea because I have a leftover EOTech from my Army days and know where some old M16 mags are that could be fixed up. I'm not sure I like the bipod on the SU-16 series though.

Redleg
2008-05-08, 23:49
http://www.naaminis.com/magnum.html

http://www.naaminis.com/pix/msNEW.jpg
Anyone with experience with this firearm? 5.9oz for a .22 mag.

I own the modle pictured. with a littledrimmel work and a small brass screw(and 300 rounds to figure out the best grip) I was able to consistantly hit a NECO candy wafer at 12 yards. 100 pcent. figuring out HOW to grip the 1 1/2 finger hold is tricky. It is slow to fire. IF you can find the cci 60 gr gold dot in .22 mag. Buy them, as it is designed to max rate in this handgun.

One of the club organizers has the .22 lr versions. It fits into the 5th(watch or change) pocket of his 501's. His is loaded with "velocitors".

I own both the .32 acp and the P9. the little .32(7.65 browning) fired offhand using a "teacup" grip nailes the 4 inch clanger at 60 yards(with me shooting) 80 precent, using fiocci ammo. (in reloads, you would be shocked at what you can get an 85 grain gold dot to do, think 9mm light).

I mostly carry the PF-9, it prints my pocket more but fits my hand better (can accuratly be fired one handed, by me).

When they finally wise up and get one in .40 sw ir .45 gap, Ill buy those as well.

The triggers stack through 9 lbs to start but after a thousand rounds or so they smooth right out, or else I'm just used to it.

I havn't been able to shoot any of them out yet. which is amaizing, given the weight/materials to energy ratio. I have changed the color of the "shell" and have good things to say about the customer svc.

They take practice, are verry forgiving to stress fire but do not come in a Cal. begining with "4".

any of them make a good "underwhere" piece if you have to where tight pants.
jaf

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-10, 00:21
I own the modle pictured. with a littledrimmel work and a small brass screw(and 300 rounds to figure out the best grip) I was able to consistantly hit a NECO candy wafer at 12 yards. 100 pcent. figuring out HOW to grip the 1 1/2 finger hold is tricky. It is slow to fire. IF you can find the cci 60 gr gold dot in .22 mag. Buy them, as it is designed to max rate in this handgun.


"I was able to consistantly hit a NECO candy wafer at 12 yards. 100 pcent."

Mr Redleg,
There are many better shooters than myself, and I don't doubt that you may be among that number but please consider my confusion:
The 10 ring of the slowfire 25 yd Bullseye pistol target is 1 5/8" in diameter. Little less than half that distance is 12 yards.
I actually can't remember what a NECCO wafer diameter is but I'm guessing 7/8"? Correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps you can see where I'm going here.
Are you saying you can consistently shoot a clean, reduced (for 12 yds), slowfire bullseye target with your NAA .22Mag?
Slowfire is shot 10 rounds in 10 minutes. Shooting a clean (offhand) slowfire is a challenge that 98% of Bullseye shooters aspire to but fail to accomplish with regularity (including myself), using a gun and caliber at least considered "Recreational" if not "Target" in size.
If you are speaking of shooting from some kind of a rest...
Well, then I'm just curious.

Doug

SGT Rock
2008-05-10, 11:31
I just looked and it turns out I may be wrong about the Ruger having a safety. I looked at the instruction manual and didn't find any reference to one.

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-10, 15:57
I just looked and it turns out I may be wrong about the Ruger having a safety. I looked at the instruction manual and didn't find any reference to one.

Lack of a safety in a DAO pistol is not that uncommon. It still shoots like a DA revolver. The "safety" on an M9 is really just a hammer lowering device isn't it? At least that's the way a S&W model 39 works.
I see that the Ruger has a (manual) slide lock which the Keltec lacks.

SGT Rock
2008-05-10, 17:47
The M9 has a safety that will lower the hammer. But with the safety on the DA will also not work. Just like on my Ruger P90.

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-10, 23:17
The M9 has a safety that will lower the hammer. But with the safety on the DA will also not work. Just like on my Ruger P90.

I went down to the gunsafe to check and you're right; That's the way the Model 39 works too. I'd better brush up on the DA/SA manual of arms before I make that a carry gun. In the mean time I'd better stick with the old school 1911 or S&W revolver MoA. Old Dog-new tricks: Gaaaaah!
:albertein

SGT Rock
2008-05-11, 00:54
My neighbor had a Ruger P85DC model. The DC was weird after being use to a regular safety.

I am pretty much looking at the Kel-Tec P32 at this point.

Amigi
2008-05-11, 07:46
Why not look at the Glock 38? It's 2.4 #s loaded. And the .45 has the stopping power you need, with an 8 round mag.

Take-a-knee
2008-05-11, 12:37
The M9 has a safety that will lower the hammer. But with the safety on the DA will also not work. Just like on my Ruger P90.

When I went through the SF Urban Combat course, the instructors called a Barreta 92 with the safety on a "dead man's gun". Since that gun doesn't have front cocking serrations, when you do a tap-rack-bang malfunction clearance drill, you will often apply the safety unintentionally when you rack the slide. This has happened to quite a few cops in gunfights, some of whom are no longer among the living. Barretta came up with an added spring that turns that safety into a decock-only lever just like a Sigg for law enforcement. To the best of my knowledge they won't sell it to civilians.

We were taught to not use the safety, any man who can't be trusted with a handgun with an eighteen pound trigger pull off of safe doesn't need a mechanical fix, he needs another line of work.

The above is one of the reasons that more PD's and people convert to the "Austrian solution" every year. There is no downside to a Glock.

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-11, 16:46
My neighbor had a Ruger P85DC model. The DC was weird after being use to a regular safety.

I am pretty much looking at the Kel-Tec P32 at this point.

Top,

You might peruse the "ktog.org" Keltec owner's site for more impressions and info. Their "forum" is called the "bulletin board"

SGT Rock
2008-05-11, 19:54
Already joined. But so far I have been spending most of my time talking about the SU-16C.

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-11, 22:34
Already joined. But so far I have been spending most of my time talking about the SU-16C.

Heh heh,
Read and enjoyed your threads. But still you're going to have to say: "'xcues me whilst I whips this out" when you're in a up-close situation with that thing, unless you carry it around your neck like I suspect you wore your M4 "over there".
Oh, and I'm guessing it's problematic getting in and out of your Hennessy with it.

And Happy mother's day to your Dixie. I bought my Girl some camping equipment for the celebration. She raised her eyebrow (like she usually does).

SGT Rock
2008-05-11, 23:57
I was thinking 1-point sling. It would be nice to kill some of those porkies tearing up this area.

Bear
2008-05-12, 11:32
We got to shoot the new Ruger LCP 380 this weekend. It has practically no sights as the front blade is very low and there are practically no rear sights at all. I found it to be practically pointless in trying to aim the thing at 25 feet and at that distance you will hit the target but no telling where. Even at about 12 to 15 feet there was no consistency in my aim but I can hit the target but no tight groups. Found it to be a 10 feet or less point and shoot instinct fully only weapon. At that distance, I will hit the target but with no tight grouping. If I get one of these for myself, it would be a point blank range last minute do or die situation weapon. Size and weight are excellent for a concealed carry or trail gun, but for me, it is strictly a last resort weapon.
In the hands of a more experienced pistol shooter, it may perform better and be a more practical weapon, but for me, the target would have to awfully close.

Take-a-knee
2008-05-12, 18:03
We got to shoot the new Ruger LCP 380 this weekend. It has practically no sights as the front blade is very low and there are practically no rear sights at all. I found it to be practically pointless in trying to aim the thing at 25 feet and at that distance you will hit the target but no telling where. Even at about 12 to 15 feet there was no consistency in my aim but I can hit the target but no tight groups. Found it to be a 10 feet or less point and shoot instinct fully only weapon. At that distance, I will hit the target but with no tight grouping. If I get one of these for myself, it would be a point blank range last minute do or die situation weapon. Size and weight are excellent for a concealed carry or trail gun, but for me, it is strictly a last resort weapon.
In the hands of a more experienced pistol shooter, it may perform better and be a more practical weapon, but for me, the target would have to awfully close.

Sounds a lot like me and my Keltec P3AT. With my Khar PM9 I can wear out an IDPA target at 25m. It weighs slightly over a pound loaded.

SGT Rock
2008-05-12, 18:44
I checked out the Kel-Tec P32 at my local favorite gun dealer today: $261 brand new.

Wow that is a light little gun. The sights are kind of small.

rbd
2008-05-13, 09:54
I find the sights and bbl length fine to hit a tuna fish can at close range.
But I can't hit paper at an indoor range fixed at 50 feet.
It carries concealed under a t-shirt & swim trunks using the clip that can be attached - and with the small magazine - even one more round added to the magazine will cause it to print on me. I've never had a problem with it even before I did the fluff & buff: http://www.goldenloki.com/guns/keltec/prep.htm
Maybe that's allready been posted as well as the Gel Tests at:
http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32acp/gel32acp.htm

SGT Rock
2008-05-14, 20:12
Man did I screw up.

I started looking for a small carry pistol and got side tracked by my longing to have my old M4 back (I miss you Genie)

The story... Well as I started looking at Kel-Tec I found out they made a rifle that I could mount all those left over toys from my last couple of tours in Iraq on. I spent some combat pay to have some nice sights and such. Anyhow, as I was looking for a pistol from them I started looking at the rifle.

Today, while going to a local out-of-the-way gun dealer that is highly recommended, I found a used SU-16 Alpha model. The previous owner had chopped off the iron sights (they suck on the A anyway) and had left it dirty when bringing it to the store. The guy there only wanted $399 for it. So I picked her up and brought her home. I spend a few hours stripping her down, cleaning her up, and putting her back together. She now looks like a new rifle. I'm in love. I need to get her to the range.

It was so nice taking apart a rifle like this again. The parts are very similar in many ways to the AK-47. I used some GPL-101 to giver her a good cleaning. Then I took some TW25B and applied it while warming the metal with a hair dryer. I polished the bottom of the bolt carrier with a fine buffing cloth. And finally, I mounted my trusty old ACOG on her. She looks sweet.

Now I have to name the girl.

Bear
2008-05-15, 11:36
You need to post some pics so us non military idiots know what the hell you are talking about. Know what an AK47 looks like but that is about it. And how did you convince Dixie you "needed" that one?

SGT Rock
2008-05-15, 11:48
You need to post some pics so us non military idiots know what the hell you are talking about. Know what an AK47 looks like but that is about it. And how did you convince Dixie you "needed" that one?
A couple of things - first that it was a GREAT price for that rifle. Second, that I really miss my M4. I've got a couple of thousand dollars in "stuff" for an M4 sitting around that would mount on it. The issue I now have is I have more stuff than will go on one weapon. So if you have an M4 or similar rifle out there and need some "stuff", let me know.

rbd
2008-05-15, 14:35
It's a lot easer to carry the P32 in your swimming trunks.
You have convinced me that you're not ready to address Canoe Camping.
The only advantage I see is that if you turn over, you may be able to obtain waterproof ammo in .223 Remington a lot easer than in .32 acp.
By the way, does anyone know of a good way to waterproof civilian ammo?
I've heard of coating the primer area with fingernail pollish. Wonder if it'll seep into the powder.
----------------------

I'm editing this: I now see that the NATO Military cartridge and rifles are manufactured to operate at higher pressures than the .223 Remington. Don't know if the Kel-Tec is intended to be used with 5.56 mm NATO or not.

SGT Rock
2008-05-15, 15:24
It is intended to be used with NATO 5.56mm although I understand the rifling is not tight enough for M855/856.

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-15, 16:29
It is intended to be used with NATO 5.56mm although I understand the rifling is not tight enough for M855/856.

A 1/9" twist should stabilize a 69 gr civilian bullet. If the M855 with it's steel penetrator is longer than a Sierra 69 gr match bullet you might lose some accuracy. If it's a 1/12" twist you'll have more luck with the 55 and lessor weight bullets.

rbd:
You can seal your .32 acp cartridges with fingernail polish and I'd think you would have to thin the polish with acetone pretty good to get it to flow into the annulus between the primer or bullet and the case. In any case, not enough is likely to flow into the case far enough to affect the powder or priming compound. That is essentially what milspec primer sealer is anyway.
Just wipe the polish from the case mouth before it dries so you don't affect the headspace. Even though the .32 case is semi-rimmed, it still headspaces on the case mouth.

SGT Rock
2008-05-16, 13:07
As I recall the M855 bullet is a little longer. The only reference I could find for the Sierra 69 match grade was .895, while the M855 is listed as .906. I haven't tried M855 out of this rifle - I'm just going off what I read on the Kel-Tec user group ref using M855. M856 is even mo' bigger, but who really needs tracer?

Mutinousdoug
2008-05-16, 18:10
The folks on the KTOG would certainly know more about your gun than I do. With 55 gr bullets only going 2450 fps, it may be hard to stabilize a longer/heavier bullet at, say 2200+/-fps. I wasn't thinking about the short barrel when I posted previously, you probably need 2600fps to stabilize a 69gr bullet in a 1/9" barrel. The M4 uses a 1/7" twist, right? I assume that would stabilize a M855 adequately at what, 2300fps? (Well, for Gov't work anyway.)

rbd
2008-05-20, 13:11
To really find out, do it the way we did before the Internet was invented.
Pick up the phone, call the Kel-Tec factory and ask for the Quality Assurance depatrment. Talk to an engineer ......

FireFighter56
2008-05-22, 02:11
try the kel tec PF-9 9mm 7 rounds semi auto very small...i know someone that has one....there a nice gun f u are looking for something that u can hide in a pocket ....

Take-a-knee
2008-05-22, 18:47
try the kel tec PF-9 9mm 7 rounds semi auto very small...i know someone that has one....there a nice gun f u are looking for something that u can hide in a pocket ....

The Khar PM9 is smaller and about 3oz heavier, and twice the price. I've handled one Kel-tec 9mm in the store and the mag release wouldn't work on a brand new gun. Keltec has some serious QC issues. I don't have to wonder whether my Khar will run when asked.

SGT Rock
2008-05-24, 10:51
The Khar PM9 is smaller and about 3oz heavier, and twice the price. I've handled one Kel-tec 9mm in the store and the mag release wouldn't work on a brand new gun. Keltec has some serious QC issues. I don't have to wonder whether my Khar will run when asked.
I've heard issues with the Kel-Tec QC. But I have also heard they have a no questions asked 100% lifetime warranty. Over at KTOG forum there are some examples of this. They do seem interested in making it right from what I can tell.

Jim Henderson
2008-05-25, 02:15
I have NO experience with this series of pistols. I do own and shoot maybe 50 different types of pistols and have fired many thousands of rounds of ammo, so I am not totally inexperienced...

I read a review years ago in some gun mag, and in general these guns were reviewed as more of a novelty, for someone who just wanted a tiny gun for their boot/flip flops etc or even a gun that fits in their belt buckle. That gun maker did/does(?) make a gun and buckle set.

The gun was unpleasant to shoot and hard to handle since there is so little of it to grab hold of. You had to kind of do fist over fist thumb over thumb type handling.

I have shot a Baby Browning 25ACP. It is the least favorite and most uncomfortable of my pistols. I shoot full load 44mags all day long and it hurts less than firning my 25ACP. The 22 LR is more powerful than the 25ACP and the 22 Mag is much more than either so come to your own conclusions as to comfort.

Accuracy wise these guns are pretty much "in your face" guns thus the nose hook as previously mentioned ;^)

If I just had to have a tiny camp gun, I might go with one of the many compact 22's, such as a tilt barrel Beretta or even one of the cheaper, less durable compacts. I would stick with 22 since it is more powerful than 25 and MUCH cheaper ammo. A better choice if you can handle the weight would be one of the many "full size" 22 camp guns such as Rugger, Browning Buckmarks, Old Colt Woodsmen etc.

Unless you are in bear country or expect 2 legged trouble a good 22 camp gun is about as big as you need.

Just my opinion,

Jim Henderson

FireFighter56
2008-06-02, 01:03
i have a Kel-Tec P11 i keep as a backup to my Glock...never once has a problem with the P11....shoots everytime....the only thing i don't like is it has a heavey trigger....needs to be lighter for my taste

eyewall
2008-06-19, 01:13
Hey Sarge, I just got back from a Springer to Hot Springs section of the AT and I can vouch on the hog rototillers! There was quite a bit of tore up trail between Low Gap Shelter and Blue Mountain Shelter. I met a couple of NPS boar hunters at Mollies Ridge. They used 30-06s and very cool night vision googles. One guy was a young kid probably about 22-23. I asked him if he enjoyed hiking around the woods at night. He smiled and said it practically killed him at first since he was so out of shape, but no sweat now :)

SGT Rock
2008-06-19, 02:07
Id love that job

Iceman
2008-06-21, 00:00
Hey, Rock, long time no see...

Here is my choice for a backup in your face fight ender.

New caliber, 32NAA (Necked down .380 by Corbon). 1220+fps for a 60gr hollowpoint. That ought to blow a hole in whatever you want to wreck.

Check it out. Their custom shop will shave all the sights, and bury a trijicon sight package in the slide for a few extra bucks. When I get mine, I will be ordering the scalloped slide. Very cool. I can hide the gun in my hand.

North American Arms Guardian 32NAA
http://www.naaminis.com/32naa.html

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 15:11
I still haven't bough that pistol, but I did finish my SU-16 Alpha

http://hikinghq.net/images/gun/missy.JPG

http://hikinghq.net/images/gun/100_0143.JPG

I figure I'm going to try and get into three-gun competition shooting.

mattzcoz
2008-07-05, 13:25
I haven't used one, but sort of wanted one, maybe to put on my keychain. ;->

Chuck Hawks has some info/impressions of it:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/concealed_pistols.htm
http://www.chuckhawks.com/deep_concealment_pistols.htm

SGT Rock
2008-08-13, 18:07
Getting to the point of purchase. I think I am going to go with a PF9. Anyone have any thoughts?
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/images/ssi/37893.jpg
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pf9.htm

I figure this small, flat gun with 9mm+p hollow-points would be the ticket.

Footslogger
2008-08-13, 18:54
Getting to the point of purchase. I think I am going to go with a PF9. Anyone have any thoughts?
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/images/ssi/37893.jpg
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pf9.htm

I figure this small, flat gun with 9mm+p hollow-points would be the ticket.

===================================

Have you ever looked at the Walther pistols Rock ?

I have the 32 cal PPK model but they make it in 9mm as well. Fits in the palm of your hand and very light.

http://www.waltherpistols.com/category/41-Walther_PPK_Handguns.aspx

'Slogger

SGT Rock
2008-08-14, 00:57
I went ahead and got the Kel-Tec PF9 tonight. Now for a clean and lube before going to the range.

Frolicking Dino
2008-08-14, 08:57
I still haven't bough that pistol, but I did finish my SU-16 Alpha
http://hikinghq.net/images/gun/100_0143.JPG

I figure I'm going to try and get into three-gun competition shooting.::: :ahhhhh: Dino decides to stay out of Rock's end of the county :afraid: :::

CaSteve
2008-08-16, 02:54
I still haven't bough that pistol, but I did finish my SU-16 Alpha

http://hikinghq.net/images/gun/missy.JPG

http://hikinghq.net/images/gun/100_0143.JPG

I figure I'm going to try and get into three-gun competition shooting.

Looks like someone is missing the army's toys
:gob_smile

Austin
2008-08-16, 03:12
Looks like someone is missing the army's toys
:gob_smile

Not missing much, though. :biggrin: