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Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 10:30
I go away for a fine weekend vacationing and I see I missed the fun again, must have been a real Southern Ruck to shut down WB! - Now everybody is suffering.... I am not going to even ask who did it this time. Just curious as to what happened. Glad it wasn't me.

Survivor Dave
2008-06-30, 10:47
The problem as I see it is that there are a select few that should be permanently banned from WB. I also think that there are fewer moderators at this time to handle the overload of senseless threads. It is a hiking website, not a political or religious one. I think that religion and politics have no business there.
I realize there is only so much hiking that folks can talk about, but this is no reason to open it up to be a thrash fest against each other.

Yes, I have said a few things that might not have been responsible, even had a few posts deleted.
There are folks out there that have miserable, lonely existances, and have nothing better to do than make others days just miserable. These folks need to go.
Of my understanding, this can be done. Apparently, the owners of WB know all of the pertinents as far as their ISP's, so if they are deleted, the only way for them to register is from another ISP provider and/or another terminal. I think it would be more of a hassle for them. Maybe they MIGHT be more responsible posters. Not holding my breath on that one.....

SD

atraildreamer
2008-06-30, 11:00
The fact that WB has shut down due to unruly conduct is funny considering all the criticism that has been posted on WB about Practical Backpacking and its' founder Bernie (Reality). :albertein Some of Reality's rules are annoying, :argh: but I think that it has gone a long way to making it a top notch site.

Reality, and Sgt. Rock on this site, run tight ships (I know...I know...Rock is Army!) and never let the crap get out of hand!

Hopefully, WB will pull it together and become a better site because of this. :cguru:

d'shadow
2008-06-30, 11:08
I'm glad they are cleaning house. Nothing wrong with a little fun, but, it has gotten out of hand. I stopped posting because of all the out of line comments made by others. The site is for discussion, exchange of information and connecting with others who share your interests. Some new posters are using it to take pot shots are anyone who posts. I support the changes being made. I just hope they do not shut down the site. I imagine there are many like me out there who have a genuine love for and interest in hiking.

Survivor Dave
2008-06-30, 11:12
Exactly. A good house cleaning.




I'm glad they are cleaning house. Nothing wrong with a little fun, but, it has gotten out of hand. I stopped posting because of all the out of line comments made by others. The site is for discussion, exchange of information and connecting with others who share your interests. Some new posters are using it to take pot shots are anyone who posts. I support the changes being made. I just hope they do not shut down the site. I imagine there are many like me out there who have a genuine love for and interest in hiking.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 12:08
I have to admit that newbies have a habit of testing the limits of what you can do on a blog. I did it. I couldn't say it better Survior Dave, But after you discover what you can and cannot do, you move on to be a responsible poster or you become a thread hijacker, or worse a Troll. There will always be a few that stir things with a big wood stick. And others who enjoy reading the threads. Because I don't have access to what the Mod's see, I think WB is doing just fine. You could not expect a better site. I would like to see some small important changes in how it's put together, but a major overhaul? A good house cleaning.... Why?

Dixi & FD made some very good decisions and blocked some of the offenders from doing some of the things that were happening last month. I thought things were going very smoothly.

I too have learned to tone it down and just be more helpful.

JAK
2008-06-30, 12:57
I was wondering when all the other WB refugees might start showing up.

I'm afraid it might have been something I said. Sometimes I try to moderate, or try to inject my twisted sense of humour, and it just goes south. Maybe I'm a troll. I don't know. Probably.

Maybe I need a self-help group.
If Dixi and FD locked me out in some way I wouldn't blame them.
Friends don't let trolls moderate.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 13:00
Jak what's your name over on WB?

Lone Wolf
2008-06-30, 13:00
i am going to be one of the new moderators

JAK
2008-06-30, 13:09
Jak what's your name over on WB?JAK

I think L.Wolf would be a fine moderator. People just need to get to know him. He has consistency and self control, which are the most essential thing I think. Bit of a lightning rod, but that's a form of moderation isn't it? We should all experience the phenomena of venting and grounding ourselves into that infinite sink of wisdom which is L.Wolf.

I'm not intentionally trolling. Honest.
If I was I would throw in one of these... :adore:

Dang.

JAK
2008-06-30, 13:23
I kinda jumped to the defence of Take-A-Knee in the ladies forum and probably made it worse.
I'm guessing that was part of it.

I don't think the Christian's Brothership thread was the problem at all.
Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

I kinda got the sense that one or two very new lady posters might have been trolls from another site but I'm pretty sure that's just me being paranoid so I won't even mention it.

Dang. There I go again.

I think the 99% truth is that new posters are often a little paranoid, as I was, and some old posters a sometimes a little too defensive and territorial, as I am. A common mistake is to be too quick to rush in and defend others, in such a way as to cause more harm than good. Troll, moderate thyself.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 13:33
I doubt you were part of it, I make it a habit to stay out of the women's forum, I have only posted there once. I hear Mod's private message buckets fill up quickly with sniviling complaints about all sorts of stuff and it can probably burn people out.

Survivor Dave
2008-06-30, 13:34
The fox guarding the hen house.......:afraid: :bike: :biggrin:


i am going to be one of the new moderators

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 13:36
Oh Hell, LW can moderate, he's on every day and won't stand for sniviling trolls I can see it know........ Packsniffers!:biggrin:

Survivor Dave
2008-06-30, 13:52
Packsniffer, not me. When I grow up, I'm aspiring to be a poser! I kind of feel left out at WB since there are so many, I just wanted to fit in. You can paint the target on my back now, just be careful of the ones already there.LOL Man, I should have been a comedian.:biggrin:
By the way Mark your hat is really ugly, why don't you give it to Wolf? It looks like a privy, maybe you shoud hang on to it.:biggrin:



Oh Hell, LW can moderate, he's on every day and won't stand for sniviling trolls I can see it know........ Packsniffers!:biggrin:

JAK
2008-06-30, 13:57
I would do well to limit myself to fewer posts per day, and better for all concerned not just me. That wouldn't be a bad idea for White Blaze maybe, perhaps not imposed on everyone, and perhaps not even on the non-paying posters, but on some posters like myself that tend to go on all night posting binges now and then. I do hope to sponsor White Blaze someday, and Hiking HQ, but I keep telling myself I have to get through my thesis first. Someday. Soon maybe. Back to my writing now.

Cheers

Frolicking Dino
2008-06-30, 14:25
Both Dixi and I resigned our positions at WB about a month or two ago - so we haven't been moderating anyone. I've had a number of people ask me to reconsider my resignation because of WB's downward spiral into name calling, bashing and general nastiness since, but that will not be happening.

Grandma
2008-06-30, 14:28
If it's not WB, then we all find a way to "meet" up somwhere else I guess?

GGS
2008-06-30, 14:36
I couldn't say it better Survior Dave, But after you discover what you can and cannot do, you move on to be a responsible poster or you become a thread hijacker, or worse a Troll.

I know what a thread hijacker is... What's a "Troll"?

JAK
2008-06-30, 14:37
Both Dixi and I resigned our positions at WB about a month or two ago - so we haven't been moderating anyone. I've had a number of people ask me to reconsider my resignation because of WB's downward spiral into name calling, bashing and general nastiness since, but that will not be happening.I thought that was the case. I presume it's been pretty much just Attroll or nothing and he's had his hands full. I've been away mostly myself until last night so I missed the downward spiral, and not sure what last night was about but I'm sure I didn't help. Ah well. I'm usually better behaved on this site. Not exactly sure why because the Rock seems to put alot of effort into both sites. Might be just because there is less traffic, but also because it is more personal, I think.

Hope your getting out FD, not neccessarily far, just out.
That's about all I'm doing up here these days. Cheers.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 14:38
FD what downward spiral? It was active and fun I didn't see anything inappropriate.

And my hat is Aussie.... I like it. Makes a good brain bucket.

Bearpaw
2008-06-30, 14:40
You know, if Lone Wolf were a moderator, he would probably be at least a little more diplomatic. And still just as right, which is most of the time, IMO.

In any event, I hope some of the hate and discontent will go away, while keeping much of the flair that makes Whiteblaze as entertaining as it is.

Frolicking Dino
2008-06-30, 14:44
I thought that was the case. I presume it's been pretty much just Attroll or nothing and he's had his hands full. I've been away mostly myself until last night so I missed the downward spiral, and not sure what last night was about but I'm sure I didn't help. Ah well.

Hope your getting out FD, not neccessarily far, just out.
That's about all I'm doing up here these days. Cheers.Rock and Skidsteer are doing most of the mod'ing now. ATTroll is the software guy.

I was gone to a church singing most of last night so I'm not sure what happened either.

As for getting out - my leg has been giving me some real trouble and I'm going back into quasi-PT at the local wellness center next week. My leg is so stiff and swollen that hiking isn't an option right now - and nothing is working to get the swelling down. I thought this was due to my congestive heart failure secondary to severe sleep apnea, but now that that is under control and the leg has not improved, I'm looking at other causes and cures.

Lone Wolf
2008-06-30, 14:44
FD what downward spiral? It was active and fun I didn't see anything inappropriate.


when warren posts a sentence jack goes off for days with 10 paragraph replies or if someone says something against matthewski the same thing happens. lots of namecalling and threats. and the politics forum totally sucks

JAK
2008-06-30, 14:44
I know what a thread hijacker is... What's a "Troll"?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Troll_woman.gif

I think I've seen a tail like that around here someplace. :ahhhhh:


p.s. Sorry to hear about the leg FD.
Hope you can at least enjoy some time sitting out. Enjoying the view, breezes, grandkids. etc.
Mint julip, whatever that is. :dontknow:

Lone Wolf
2008-06-30, 14:45
You know, if Lone Wolf were a moderator, he would probably be at least a little more diplomatic. And still just as right, which is most of the time, IMO.

In any event, I hope some of the hate and discontent will go away, while keeping much of the flair that makes Whiteblaze as entertaining as it is.

nah they wouldn't let me be a moderator. i'm too FOS. i'll prolly be one of the first to be booted

Bearpaw
2008-06-30, 14:46
I'm afraid it might have been something I said. Sometimes I try to moderate, or try to inject my twisted sense of humour, and it just goes south.

You're no troll JAK. I think of MANY pot-stirrers on WB, most of whom have a user name starting with a "T". Sometimes I agree with one or the other, but usually don't chime in too much because I just don't feel like wading into the fracas with all the other "T"'s.....

BTW, if your WB name starts with a "T" and you're offended by this, you're probably one of the "T"'s I'm talking about.

Frolicking Dino
2008-06-30, 14:47
FD what downward spiral? It was active and fun I didn't see anything inappropriate.

And my hat is Aussie.... I like it. Makes a good brain bucket.Most of it gets deleted pretty quickly so unless you are on a lot, you don't see it. However, enough people saw it and started complaining about it to make it clear that something was going to have to be done. It'll be interesting to see exactly what steps are taken.

That is a great hat.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 14:53
Oh those two again? I had one of them on ignore, No wonder I missed it, I didn't even read those rants.... Now I get it..


Jak - This is a Troll
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/troll.jpg

d'shadow
2008-06-30, 14:54
My hat :) is off to the guys moderating, however, I still miss Dino and Dixie, wish you would come back. Admired the way you ladies handled so many situations, and everyone had to worry about Dino's tail!!!!

GGS
2008-06-30, 14:54
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Troll_woman.gif

I think I've seen a tail like that around here someplace. :ahhhhh:

Troll, [internet]. A person who is deliberately inflammatory on the Internet in order to provoke a vehement response from other users.

Lone Wolf
2008-06-30, 14:56
Troll, [internet]. A person who is deliberately inflammatory on the Internet in order to provoke a vehement response from other users.


weasel, tater, tarlin, terrapin, whitefoot, etc. but not me :bootyshak

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 15:00
Tail? oh no don't forget there was more than the tail....


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/DinoTshirt1.gif


Hope you get better FD!


(Why Dino's make lousy pets - the doggie clean up bags were too large!)

JAK
2008-06-30, 15:01
You're no troll JAK. I think of MANY pot-stirrers on WB, most of whom have a user name starting with a "T". Sometimes I agree with one or the other, but usually don't chime in too much because I just don't feel like wading into the fracas with all the other "T"'s.....

BTW, if your WB name starts with a "T" and you're offended by this, you're probably one of the "T"'s I'm talking about.Thanks Bearpaw.

Of course I haven't seen whatever might be going on in the politics forum and the other forums closed to cheapskates. Probably just as well. The Jack and Warren stuff does get out of control but must have missed that recently, other that on the 'The Place' thread a while back. I don't mind either Jack or Warren myself. I would like to meet either of them. Perhaps not both at once. Sometimes I'm better behaved when someone else is making an ass of themselves, but there are no guarantees. Overall I think I have gotten better from participating in forums, or perhaps just gotten older. ;)

enviro
2008-06-30, 15:02
when warren posts a sentence jack goes off for days with 10 paragraph replies or if someone says something against matthewski the same thing happens. lots of namecalling and threats. and the politics forum totally sucks

I noticed last week it just seemed to keep escalating. I think you could count on your hands and toes the number of people that are incendiary on WB. Yet, many of those are the most prolific posters. At times I think they chase each other around the site just to be able to argue. There are a few others that just post things that they know will incite reaction (troll).

LW you're so right about the politics forum. That is just nastiness all of the time. When the vote of what to do with it was taken. I didn't vote to eliminate it, biut wish I had. Maybe if it was gone some of the spillover would go with it.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 15:05
Enviodiver. So you read these rants, were they just to the Politic Forum? Or was it visable in the General Forum?

Lone Wolf
2008-06-30, 15:07
Enviodiver. So you read these rants, were they just to the Politic Forum? Or was it visable in the General Forum?

ALL forums

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 15:09
Well they will take care of it... It will all work out. Shame its going to take two days.

JAK
2008-06-30, 15:12
Troll, [internet]. A person who is deliberately inflammatory on the Internet in order to provoke a vehement response from other users.Gotcha.

Gotcha with the old reverse there.
Or maybe you got me with the reverse reverse.
Or maybe...

enviro
2008-06-30, 15:13
Enviodiver. So you read these rants, were they just to the Politic Forum? Or was it visable in the General Forum?

General Forum too. A thread would get started and it seemed that before 10-15 posts were made that there was a big argument going on. It was generally 6-8 posters involved in it. Jack was heavily involved and Warren would pop in, post something and set Jack off again. Then there were the posses of the groups that were jumping in. The whole thing was silly. I thought about posting that they were acting like children, but then I would have been in it.

I rarely ever go into the politics pit, and never post there. It's not something that I enjoy. I don't mind talking to people about my political thoughts, if you can have a civil conversation about it, with people of different viewpoints. Might even learn something new. But, there is very little that is civil in that Political forum.

JAK
2008-06-30, 15:14
Well they will take care of it... It will all work out. Shame its going to take two days.Yeah, its not like we have other things to do eh. :bike:

Bearpaw
2008-06-30, 15:15
My simple solution for the politics forum was to never subscribe. I've hiked with a number of folks of different political persuasions and generally been very happy because when I'm out there, politics just aren't all that important.

I suppose you could say politics that affect the trail like land management, fees, restrictions, etc, matter. These are reasonable material for a board like WB. But the state of health care, or Iraq policy, or economic initiatives, or gun control/freedoms aren't exactly conducive to to a healthy environment from people who will never see each other, let alone depend on each other in the backcountry.

I wouldn't be sad to know the politics forum went away, even though I've never visited it. It just seems like too many bad feelings spill over into the general boards.

JAK
2008-06-30, 15:23
Envirodiver,
I've always found your avatar at the other site rather provocative, in a funny kinda way. Can't exactly picture it now. Tall guy that looks kinda like Rick Mercer. That might have something to do with it. Funny how an avatar can make a lasting impression, but not always what you might thing neccessarily. I have to struggle to get past the avatar, don't know why I blame myself.

Cheers

Rick Mercer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Mercer

p.s.
If it's actually a real photo of you, just shoot me now.
Yeah, my avatar here is the real me, so I guess we are even.

enviro
2008-06-30, 15:23
My simple solution for the politics forum was to never subscribe. I've hiked with a number of folks of different political persuasions and generally been very happy because when I'm out there, politics just aren't all that important.

I suppose you could say politics that affect the trail like land management, fees, restrictions, etc, matter. These are reasonable material for a board like WB. But the state of health care, or Iraq policy, or economic initiatives, or gun control/freedoms aren't exactly conducive to to a healthy environment from people who will never see each other, let alone depend on each other in the backcountry.

I wouldn't be sad to know the politics forum went away, even though I've never visited it. It just seems like too many bad feelings spill over into the general boards.

I agree Bearpaw, I think spillover is occuring also. I think it will get worse before it gets better with the upcoming election and the pretty harsh feelings that seem to be going along with this election.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 15:27
Yeah, its not like we have other things to do eh. :bike:

Oh yea like work for a living.....

enviro
2008-06-30, 15:28
Envirodiver,
I've always found your avatar at the other site rather provocative, in a funny kinda way. Can't exactly picture it now. Tall guy that looks kinda like Rick Mercer. That might have something to do with it. Funny how an avatar can make a lasting impression, but not always what you might thing neccessarily. I have to struggle to get past the avatar, don't know why I blame myself.

Cheers

Rick Mercer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Mercer

p.s.
If it's actually a real photo of you, just shoot me now.
Yeah, my avatar here is the real me, so I guess we are even.

LMAO, Jak. I had the urge to pretend to be very hurt and ask about what all you thought was wrong with the way I look, but I won't.

The avatar is "Smilin Bob", he is the uh "spoksperson" for a very interesting ad campaign for a male enhancement product. I love the commercials they are kind of a take-off on the 1960's type of advertisments.

JAK
2008-06-30, 15:29
Love the Mr. Koolaid though. LOL

enviro
2008-06-30, 15:32
Love the Mr. Koolaid though. LOL

I formerly had an awful looking old man's face up on this site. Several people complained to me so much about it scareing them that I changed it out. Yeah I like the Koolaid also, reminds me of my childhood.

Lone Wolf
2008-06-30, 15:34
I agree Bearpaw, I think spillover is occuring also. I think it will get worse before it gets better with the upcoming election and the pretty harsh feelings that seem to be going along with this election.

if it were my site, discussion of race, politics and religion would be strictly forbidden. period. that would eliminate about 10 posters who rarely post in the hiking forums cuz they're stuck in offices all day and are just mean and nasty

Bearpaw
2008-06-30, 15:45
if it were my site, discussion of race, politics and religion would be strictly forbidden. period. that would eliminate about 10 posters who rarely post in the hiking forums cuz they're stuck in offices all day and are just mean and nasty

You see Wolf, you really should be a moderator.

Granted, WB needs at least a dozen mods to hope to effectively handle the sheer volume.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 15:48
You know as well as I do that there are loads of Political & Religious Forums on the Internet. I am sure the thought process was to let WB members "do it" on WB, but as I came to find out they also are members for other forums; just as we are here at Sgt. Rock as well as WB. Do we really need to have those subscription areas if they pose a problem?

I always found the subscription area fairly dead and devoid of enough activity to keep me interested.

Do we really need to argue about if Jesus actually drank the wine, or Obama did it to Hillary?

You see Wolf, you really should be a moderator.

enviro
2008-06-30, 15:56
if it were my site, discussion of race, politics and religion would be strictly forbidden. period. that would eliminate about 10 posters who rarely post in the hiking forums cuz they're stuck in offices all day and are just mean and nasty

You're right LW some of them are just mean and nasty.

I asked a question once about certain noodles for FBC and 1 poster in particular started really getting angry with me about Freezer bag cooking. I never did get what it was about, but several people even PM'd me and remarked on how weird it was and said they were glad they hadn't posted. When people that want to be on a site are afraid of posting because they don't want to be yelled at, embarassed or otherwise talked down to, then that is a problem IMO.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 16:00
Yes I have seen that, I often think they have been drinking too many tea leaves or I find out later they misread the post, a sort of "bash you" because the reader has Touret's with Attention Deficit!



JAK - don't drink the Cool Aid!:beer:

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 16:07
So what other blogs do WB, SGT R. members use other than here about backpacking?

www.hikingforums.net (1)
www.trailforums.com (2)

http://www.hikingnewengland.com (They don't seem to be here)
http://www.backpacking.net/bbs.html (They don't seem to be here)
http://forums.backpacker.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi (They don't seem to be here)
http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showforum=58 (never heard of this one)
http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=44 (nope)

Unbelievable! http://www.trailforums.com/detail.cfm?EntryID=103415#103415

Frolicking Dino
2008-06-30, 16:22
You're right LW some of them are just mean and nasty.

I asked a question once about certain noodles for FBC and 1 poster in particular started really getting angry with me about Freezer bag cooking. I never did get what it was about, but several people even PM'd me and remarked on how weird it was and said they were glad they hadn't posted. When people that want to be on a site are afraid of posting because they don't want to be yelled at, embarassed or otherwise talked down to, then that is a problem IMO.I get a lot of PMs from people asking me who can tell them about XYZ tent or how to make a cozy or the water situation / parking safety in an area. Most state they are afraid to post publicly on WB because of the attacks.

enviro
2008-06-30, 16:26
I get a lot of PMs from people asking me who can tell them about XYZ tent or how to make a cozy or the water situation / parking safety in an area. Most state they are afraid to post publicly on WB because of the attacks.

See, that is a problem. There is such a wealth of information to be gained from the experience of that site. You can ask a question and in 15 min. have several responses. If folks are timid to post then it will just eventually wither on the vine.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 16:39
Well my take on that is a little different, If I PM someone for more detail and I cannot find it in a search of the site, I do a PM to avoid hijacking the thread or sending it way out there. I suspect others might be uncomfortable with their posts.


FD look at Post 54 and click on Unbelivable.

Lone Wolf
2008-06-30, 16:45
Well my take on that is a little different, If I PM someone for more detail and I cannot find it in a search of the site, I do a PM to avoid hijacking the thread or sending it way out there. I suspect others might be uncomfortable with their posts.


FD look at Post 54 and click on Unbelivable.

someone is having fun at my expense. that forum sucks cuz anybody can post using any name with a fake e-mail

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 16:51
I understand that - LW I just was surprised about the overall nature of the posts as the were all on a ex-stream side. The appeared to poke at everyone at WB.

SleepsWithSkunks
2008-06-30, 16:52
See, that is a problem. There is such a wealth of information to be gained from the experience of that site. You can ask a question and in 15 min. have several responses. If folks are timid to post then it will just eventually wither on the vine.

I've posted a couple of times in the womens forum on whiteblaze. But I ask Bearpaw first then post a question. The one time I posted a gear question on a forum other than Whiteblaze when Bearpaw was hiking. I had a couple of good answers, but I also had a couple of butts that were just nasty and I don't post there anymore. Now I lurk. Sooner or later someone will post info I need or I just wait until I can get a hold of someone I know will have an answer.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 16:56
I think everyone has run into that SWS at one time or another. I remember I got miss-quoted and had to PM the offender to remove his post, - He didn't understand his post was instigating stuff at the time.

enviro
2008-06-30, 17:00
The WB search function is very good when you want to know gear specific answers, yet may not feel comfortable posting. You can put a couple of key words in and get an incredible amount of info.

Bearpaw
2008-06-30, 17:13
So what other blogs do WB, SGT R. members use other than here about backpacking?

http://www.backpacking.net/bbs.html (They don't seem to be here)


I'm here. I'm also a moderator at backpacking.net (AKA The Lightweight Backpacker or TLB)

Hiking HQ is a very low use site (Except when WB goes down). TLB is barely there compared to the volume of WB, but it gets more activity than here. It's also very well behaved much like here.

It will take major full-time moderating by a number of conscientious mods to reign in WB. TLB has (I believe) 9 mods and maybe 20% of WB's volume. With only 2 moderators, WB has no reasonable chance of thoroughly policing all the traffic that goes on.

Personally, I think Rock and Skidsteer should leave the site down through the July 4th weekend so they can enjoy themselves and not come back up until they enlist a large moderator group to cover the forums. It wouldn't be necessary on a permanent basis, but WOULD be needed until folks relearn how to be civil with each other, and understand the behavior expectations of the site.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 17:36
Yes I too enjoyed TLB and a few others then went with WB almost solely. It is fun and I thought most were well behaved. What other sites are there?


FYI Sleep with Skunks - Have a free avatar. (You should shrink it down)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/sleepswskunks.jpg

Frolicking Dino
2008-06-30, 18:36
I'm here. I'm also a moderator at backpacking.net (AKA The Lightweight Backpacker or TLB)

Hiking HQ is a very low use site (Except when WB goes down). TLB is barely there compared to the volume of WB, but it gets more activity than here. It's also very well behaved much like here.

It will take major full-time moderating by a number of conscientious mods to reign in WB. TLB has (I believe) 9 mods and maybe 20% of WB's volume. With only 2 moderators, WB has no reasonable chance of thoroughly policing all the traffic that goes on.

Personally, I think Rock and Skidsteer should leave the site down through the July 4th weekend so they can enjoy themselves and not come back up until they enlist a large moderator group to cover the forums. It wouldn't be necessary on a permanent basis, but WOULD be needed until folks relearn how to be civil with each other, and understand the behavior expectations of the site.As you say, it takes a great deal of time and effort to moderate a site like WB and maintain any semblance of civility if you don't put people in moderated posting status or ban those who have demonstrated the inability to be civil on a continuing basis.

While I caught a lot flack for how I handled things while moderating at WB, apparently some other sites were impressed with how I handled the many problems that arise on such a large and blusterous site. I've been asked to join, help moderate and help build up the membership of several backpacking sites since I quit being so active on WB. For now, I'm just too busy with other things to help build up another site, but if WB goes down the tubes I will help build another resource for hikers.

Home Fires
2008-06-30, 18:38
http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showforum=58 (never heard of this one)
Groundspeak is the geocacher's website. Not surprising they'd have a hiking section, but I doubt it's the first place someone would turn. In fact, I'm well-familiar with groundspeak, but it didn't even occur to me to look there when I was looking for a hiking forum.

I've been on WB for just about a week. I frequent a couple of heavily-moderated websites, so I thought maybe I just wasn't used to the unmoderated, "wild, wild, web", but it's nice to know that the out-of-control spirals that seemed to happen in every thread aren't (aren't intended to be?) the norm there. Because I've learned so much and enjoy the community, but it was getting a bit tiresome to realize that no matter which thread I went into, it was about the same. And not really about hiking.

mountain squid
2008-06-30, 18:55
limit myself to fewer posts per dayInteresting idea. Not sure if this was your thought, but could the software limit posts per day per member? (Rhetorical question not directed specifically to JAK.) Maybe set the limit to 10 posts per day. Wouldn't that encourage self moderating? If a member routinely posts more than 10 times/day, they would have to seriously consider each post before posting.

Maybe a moderator or an adminstrator could allow a member to go past 10 posts if necessary. This would require the member to contact mod/admin via private messaging. At which point the mod/admin could review previous posts made by member to determine if feasible. Otherwise, said member would have to wait until the next day.

Of course Private Messaging would still be available and I noticed that with the last upgrade the messaging area added some features.

I don't know...just thinking out loud...SGT Rock and/or dixicritter is this reasonable? is the software even capable of something like this? attroll, are you out there? What do you think?

See you on the trail,
mt squid

Survivor Dave
2008-06-30, 18:59
As you say, it takes a great deal of time and effort to moderate a site like WB and maintain any semblance of civility if you don't put people in moderated posting status or ban those who have demonstrated the inability to be civil on a continuing basis.

While I caught a lot flack for how I handled things while moderating at WB, apparently some other sites were impressed with how I handled the many problems that arise on such a large and blusterous site. I've been asked to join, help moderate and help build up the membership of several backpacking sites since I quit being so active on WB. For now, I'm just too busy with other things to help build up another site, but if WB goes down the tubes I will help build another resource for hikers.


Wow FD! Honest, concise, and to the point.....AGAIN! You rock FD. Don't take any crap off of anyone:biggrin: :argh: :biggrin: :argh: :biggrin:

ed bell
2008-06-30, 19:27
I'm here. I'm also a moderator at backpacking.net (AKA The Lightweight Backpacker or TLB)

Hiking HQ is a very low use site (Except when WB goes down). TLB is barely there compared to the volume of WB, but it gets more activity than here. It's also very well behaved much like here.

It will take major full-time moderating by a number of conscientious mods to reign in WB. TLB has (I believe) 9 mods and maybe 20% of WB's volume. With only 2 moderators, WB has no reasonable chance of thoroughly policing all the traffic that goes on.

Personally, I think Rock and Skidsteer should leave the site down through the July 4th weekend so they can enjoy themselves and not come back up until they enlist a large moderator group to cover the forums. It wouldn't be necessary on a permanent basis, but WOULD be needed until folks relearn how to be civil with each other, and understand the behavior expectations of the site.Another refugee here.

BTW, SGT. Rock, I think a wonderful job has been done on WB through the years. Dixi was awesome while you were out serving this Country. Last thing you need now is dealing with folks not acting as adults. Thanks for all that everyone has done, day in, day out at WB.

Bearpaw provides a good evaluation of what WB is up against if the Admin. is going to try to reign in the problem. The site traffic is large enough now that lots of fires start without anyone knowing it. By the time someone contains it, it's already out of hand. Add to that the fact that I really believe that Skidsteer, Rock and Alligator have had to all but quit adding to the content of the site in order to effectively moderate. That sucks because they were some of my favorite contributors.
What comes next? I don't know. I do know that the "THAT'S CENSORSHIP" folks will start the same bellyaching when the screws get turned. I actually dislike those complaints even more than the isolated tedious back and forth that has become as predictable as death and taxes.

Bearpaw
2008-06-30, 21:41
Well, best to all. I'm looking forward to seeing what's going on here and on Whiteblaze in a couple of weeks. Sleeps With Skunks and I will be on the AT, and if my ankle doesn't act up, I'll follow up with the John Muir Trail of Tennessee in Big South Fork NRA. Til then, best of the trail to all of you.

Wise Old Owl
2008-06-30, 23:27
As you say, ... but if WB goes down the tubes I will help build another resource for hikers.

Do you think that might happen?

The Weasel
2008-07-01, 00:21
It is intriguing that, upon the suspension of WhiteBlaze due to members criticizing what other members write, Rock's site is then used as a surrogate for the same kind of thing. I would think this a good time for all of us to honor Rick's implicit request (which, of course, Rock - the leader of this site - must be a part of) that we abide Tuesday. I think Bearpaw has an excellent perspective: Let's hike, and see what happens on WhiteBlaze when it happens.

The Weasel

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 00:40
Do you think that might happen?It is already happening - the question is - Will whatever steps are taken come Tuesday change that?

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 00:57
Howdy all. Sorry I ain't on the net as much as I need to be these days. My new job and all...

I just went over and checked WB. Sad that it came to that. I wish people could control themsleves over there. I know Troll and Skids have jobs too. A while back I remember saying if we ever needed to get someone on a full time paid position it would probably have to be as a moderator because when it comes down to it, that is the hardest part of running a website. Apparently Troll talked to Dixi about it yesterday while I was at work.

I don't know if it has to do with the upcoming elections. A trend I have noticed since we got going really big is that elections bring out the worst in people over there and Presidential ones are expodentialy worse than mid terms. The last two of them I had to ask people for a moritorium on political speech two weeks before the election because I noticed folks taking the fights they were having in politics out to the rest of the board. I haven't had time to look through the issues but I assume at this point that could be part of it.

The other thing I see is the same guys fighting some argument they have been having for the last 10 years on the board any time they get the chance. For the rest of us, that really gets old.

Anyway. Thanks for coming over here, please keep it civil. I'm sure Troll, Skidster, and I can work something out.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 06:18
Glad to hear that someone of the caliber of Dixi is under consideration as a full-time moderator. This is indeed wonderful news.

Two Speed
2008-07-01, 09:11
'Nother vote for Dixi as full time mod on WB, if she'll accept it. If she does I'll throw in an extra $5 every year.

Survivor Dave
2008-07-01, 09:19
'Nother vote for Dixi as full time mod on WB, if she'll accept it. If she does I'll throw in an extra $5 every year.

Two Speed, you truly are a cheeeeeap bastard.......Dix I'll give you $6! LOL You are worth more than that just like FD. Awwwww, c'mon please come back:adore: :arty: :rock:

SD

Lone Wolf
2008-07-01, 09:32
It is intriguing that, upon the suspension of WhiteBlaze due to members criticizing what other members write,

maybe when whiteblaze goes back on line you'll stop criticizing what everyone writes and you'll stop calling folks names such as anti-semite, homophobe, racist, sexist, etc. maybe if they got rid of the politics forum a lot of the crap would stop. you and others post mainly in that forum then it spills over to hiking which a lot of you in the politics forum don't do a lot of

The Weasel
2008-07-01, 10:30
Matthew 7:3-5.

TW

Lone Wolf
2008-07-01, 10:34
Jethro 7: 6-25.

LW

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 11:02
Hmmm... if the rules end up applying to everyone equally, the exchange you two just had will likely be history. :aetsch: :D

As for the political forum, it is there because when it wasn't the discussion of politics was all over the board. I guess they could do away with it if they made a commitment to deleting the political nonsense off the board and putting those who kept posting it on moderated posting status.

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 11:02
Any one heard why WB is down for an extra day? Web site changes/cleanup or are the mods having a problem agreeing on how and what to police?

Lone Wolf
2008-07-01, 11:02
trailjournals forum is a riot right now. all kindsa *hit slinging :biggrin:

Home Fires
2008-07-01, 11:04
Dunno why they're still down but I agree they ought to give themselves a break and just stay closed through the holiday. (Withdrawal pains I'm having notwithstanding...)

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 11:06
Two Speed, you truly are a cheeeeeap bastard.......Dix I'll give you $6! LOL You are worth more than that just like FD. Awwwww, c'mon please come back:adore: :arty: :rock:

SDI'd be willing to come back as a volunteer if Dixi was on board and the admins assure me the rules will be applied to everyone equally. The one thing I would not do is moderate Jack. Too much history there.


Any one heard why WB is down for an extra day? Web site changes/cleanup or are the mods having a problem agreeing on how and what to police?My guess is the latter.

Lone Wolf
2008-07-01, 11:07
Hmmm... if the rules end up applying to everyone equally, the exchange you two just had will likely be history. :aetsch: :D

As for the political forum, it is there because when it wasn't the discussion of politics was all over the board. I guess they could do away with it if they made a commitment to deleting the political nonsense off the board and putting those who kept posting it on moderated posting status.

i speak the truth. weasey throws out hypocritical bible junk

enviro
2008-07-01, 11:11
Howdy all. Sorry I ain't on the net as much as I need to be these days. My new job and all...

I just went over and checked WB. Sad that it came to that. I wish people could control themsleves over there. I know Troll and Skids have jobs too. A while back I remember saying if we ever needed to get someone on a full time paid position it would probably have to be as a moderator because when it comes down to it, that is the hardest part of running a website. Apparently Troll talked to Dixi about it yesterday while I was at work.

I don't know if it has to do with the upcoming elections. A trend I have noticed since we got going really big is that elections bring out the worst in people over there and Presidential ones are expodentialy worse than mid terms. The last two of them I had to ask people for a moritorium on political speech two weeks before the election because I noticed folks taking the fights they were having in politics out to the rest of the board. I haven't had time to look through the issues but I assume at this point that could be part of it.

The other thing I see is the same guys fighting some argument they have been having for the last 10 years on the board any time they get the chance. For the rest of us, that really gets old.

Anyway. Thanks for coming over here, please keep it civil. I'm sure Troll, Skidster, and I can work something out.

Thanks for your efforts Rock. I wouldn't want ya'lls job over there. Wish I had voted against keeping the politics forum when I had the chance.

How are the injuries coming along?

I'll be in Maryville July 19 (Sat) for my daughter's orientation. If you guys and the Dino's have the time I'd like to get together for lunch dinner or something.

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 11:19
I'd be willing to come back as a volunteer if Dixi was on board and the admins assure me the rules will be applied to everyone equally. The one thing I would not do is moderate Jack. Too much history there.




It was a better place when you and Dixi moderated. Seems to be a few new folk who get nasty real quick, especially towards folks with the history and they don't understand that. Although, sometimes that in your face, repeat the same message, is getting old. Other, more clever, ways to get a point across, IMO.

HikerRanky
2008-07-01, 11:30
Good morning everyone...

When I first joined WB last year, I was immediately impressed by the advice and information that a person could get just from the content that was already there. It truly was a place that a newbie, or in my case, an oldie out of practice, could go, read the articles and postings, and come away with a new perspective and learn from everyone that had and were hiking the trail. The majority of the postings were very relevant, and I could read an entire thread without having to filter the chaff.

However, over the last few months, it became increasingly hard to read a thread that remained on topic... Whereas before, a thread veered slightly off topic, lately they veered a lot off topic. A thread might have 50 posts in it, but 20 of the posts were just chaff to me.

I don't think that extreme moderation is the answer... It's something like hunting buffalo... The smart hunters would go after the leader of the pack. This would force the herd to retreat and a new leader would emerge... Then the hunter would take out that leader.

But the hunter would only take what was needed, and would not be greedy...

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

And I'll even step up here publicly and state that if Dixi and FD come back, then I'll also volunteer as a mod... That is if the management of WB would have me....

Randy ( Known as HikerRanky on WB )

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 11:31
I'll be in Maryville July 19 (Sat) for my daughter's orientation. If you guys and the Dino's have the time I'd like to get together for lunch dinner or something.We Dinos are retired while the Rocks are still working folks -- I'll leave the time up to them.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 11:34
i speak the truth. weasey throws out hypocritical bible junk::: Prune-faced Dino peeks over trifocals with soapy toothbrush behind back and a Busch in hand :::

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 11:35
LW is quite correct, the WB political forums should be killed. It is just a rant, not a discussion and no one gains. It has been said that the political forums keep that crap out of the main forums. Hogwash. Moderators can keep the political crap out of the main forums. Instead of mods telling people to take it to the political forums and moving some of it for them, they can say take it outside and delete the crap. Just a thought.

Lone Wolf
2008-07-01, 11:42
...and billville this and billville that. they should start their own website :boring:

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 11:49
...and billville this and billville that. they should start their own website :boring:

I think they have a myfaceplant or something like that

enviro
2008-07-01, 11:52
Wow, I just went to trailforums for a few minutes to see what that place was about. Talk about nastiness, man that was like a gangfight and piling on folks.

I thought WB was getting bad but it was nothing compared to TF. :afraid:

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 11:54
Don't get me started on Billville :albertein :boring: :D

They do have a MySpace page, but they tend to use WB for their planning and such.

Lone Wolf
2008-07-01, 11:55
Wow, I just went to trailforums for a few minutes to see what that place was about. Talk about nastiness, man that was like a gangfight and piling on folks.

I thought WB was getting bad but it was nothing compared to TF. :afraid:

TF has no moderation and no screening

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 11:56
Don't get me started on Billville :albertein :boring: :D

They do have a MySpace page, but they tend to use WB for their planning and such.

frat party planning you mean

enviro
2008-07-01, 12:00
TF has no moderation and no screening

It shows. Very immature stuff with the taking of peoples names and posting as them/you.

JAK
2008-07-01, 12:41
The WB search function is very good when you want to know gear specific answers, yet may not feel comfortable posting. You can put a couple of key words in and get an incredible amount of info.I don't like the search function myself. I just keep posting random ideas of my own until after 1000 posts or so I type something somebody agrees with.

JAK
2008-07-01, 12:47
Interesting idea. Not sure if this was your thought, but could the software limit posts per day per member? (Rhetorical question not directed specifically to JAK.) Maybe set the limit to 10 posts per day. Wouldn't that encourage self moderating? If a member routinely posts more than 10 times/day, they would have to seriously consider each post before posting.

Maybe a moderator or an adminstrator could allow a member to go past 10 posts if necessary. This would require the member to contact mod/admin via private messaging. At which point the mod/admin could review previous posts made by member to determine if feasible. Otherwise, said member would have to wait until the next day.

Of course Private Messaging would still be available and I noticed that with the last upgrade the messaging area added some features.

I don't know...just thinking out loud...SGT Rock and/or dixicritter is this reasonable? is the software even capable of something like this? attroll, are you out there? What do you think?

See you on the trail,
mt squidThere would need to be an over-ride for when I come up with something really funny.
I wonder if there are any software algoritms out there that 'get' me?

enviro
2008-07-01, 12:52
I don't like the search function myself. I just keep posting random ideas of my own until after 1000 posts or so I type something somebody agrees with.

That's certainly another option. Keep asking "what's the best solo tent" and eventually someone will mention the one that you bought. That always makes me feel better that there is a like mind out there. :biggrin:

FranceyS
2008-07-01, 12:58
After reading the above comments I went over to the TF and read their page.
Whoo! Talk about out of control people, that's a perfect example. If WB was like that, no wonder it's shut down...it should be.

I found the same thing happening on a site where I went to learn about recreational vehicle hitches.. It was the first time I'd encountered such venom, all covered over with such comments like 'tongue in cheek' speak. I then joined for writing one message, telling them what I thought of a site that behaved in such a way. Upon reading the comments afterward it was like hitting a yellow-jacket hole in the ground with a rock and standing there watching. <smile> It WAS funny!

In all the reading of both the TF and that RV site, I came away with the realization that most of the people involved are working people, at jobs somewhere, but they have nothing to do with themselves at work but unload their bitterness and dreariness of their lives onto the readers. Their employers are footing the bill.

Maybe that's good, to unload the bitterness...maybe they go home to their wives and husbands in a better mood than usual. I know that I, when on e-mail, will speak of matters that I would NEVER verbally discuss, but always in honesty and with truth to back up what I say.

I did get a real kick out of the writer calling another "an ole hag"... <smile> I had thought that person was a male because of the writing style, and was so surprised to find it was a retired female. One never knows with the anonymity of the written word who is speaking.
Hope they lighten up in those sites. They ought to title it something like the "Nasty Hikers Forum". Bye.

JAK
2008-07-01, 12:59
Sorry to hear you are working Rock. Try not to make a habit of it.

p.s. :beer:

ed bell
2008-07-01, 13:41
Someone took a scrub brush to TF. All the junk and drivel is gone.

The Weasel
2008-07-01, 13:57
Someone took a scrub brush to TF. All the junk and drivel is gone.

And that would be a wise thing for the posts above here, as well. It is at best unseemly to be imposing on Rock's hospitality at this site for comments - not all of them restrained - about WB past and future. If there are things that might be done to or for WhiteBlaze, there will be time enough to send him, Troll, or others public or private messages at WhiteBlaze when it reopens.

TW

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 14:04
It is intriguing that, upon the suspension of WhiteBlaze due to members criticizing what other members write, Rock's site is then used as a surrogate for the same kind of thing. I would think this a good time for all of us to honor Rick's implicit request (which, of course, Rock - the leader of this site - must be a part of) that we abide Tuesday. I think Bearpaw has an excellent perspective: Let's hike, and see what happens on WhiteBlaze when it happens.

The Weasel


And that would be a wise thing for the posts above here, as well. It is at best unseemly to be imposing on Rock's hospitality at this site for comments - not all of them restrained - about WB past and future. If there are things that might be done to or for WhiteBlaze, there will be time enough to send him, Troll, or others public or private messages at WhiteBlaze when it reopens.

TW


Or you could follow your own advice and take a hike. :biggrin:

JAK
2008-07-01, 14:04
Weasel,
I thought you made a good point when you made it but if you look at The Rock's post in this thread he said thanks for coming over. Yeah, some of the posts in this thread, maybe, but all in all its pretty civil. Stop stirring things up and have a beer with me. Say something funny. I know you have it in you.

Cup of tea?
:tee:

enviro
2008-07-01, 14:27
And that would be a wise thing for the posts above here, as well. It is at best unseemly to be imposing on Rock's hospitality at this site for comments - not all of them restrained - about WB past and future. If there are things that might be done to or for WhiteBlaze, there will be time enough to send him, Troll, or others public or private messages at WhiteBlaze when it reopens.

TW

Your posts make me feel like a scolded child. Is that by intent, if so it could explain the reaction you get sometimes.

Lone Wolf
2008-07-01, 14:36
17 new rules
http://whiteblaze.net/rules.htm

JAK
2008-07-01, 14:39
Your posts make me feel like a scolded child. Is that by intent, if so it could explain the reaction you get sometimes.
So you're the one that switched my tootsy rolls with Ex-Lax. :argh:

enviro
2008-07-01, 14:45
So you're the one that switched my tootsy rolls with Ex-Lax. :argh:

Who me? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/ad/whistling.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 14:51
17 new rules
http://whiteblaze.net/rules.htm


What are the chances they were made up by WB owners or mods versus copied from somewhere else?

Notice the copyright notice right after rule 17. :biggrin:

The Weasel
2008-07-01, 14:57
Weasel,
I thought you made a good point when you made it but if you look at The Rock's post in this thread he said thanks for coming over. Yeah, some of the posts in this thread, maybe, but all in all its pretty civil. Stop stirring things up and have a beer with me. Say something funny. I know you have it in you.

Cup of tea?
:tee:

JAK --

I'm not trying to stir things; I think, in all honesty, this would be a good time for all of us - note, please, I said "us" - to simply hold our peace for a while, rather than try to justify ourselves or criticise others, or think of how other people should act.

I have lots of funny things in me. Thanks for noticing. I'll pass for now on the funny until we can have that beer, the tea, or some Macallan.

TW

The Weasel
2008-07-01, 15:01
The "rules" are essentially the same as those that have been there in the past.

TW

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 15:01
I don't think Dixi would take a moderator position - she hated it the first time too. I don't think we could afford to pay someone to do it either. We are afloat financially but not to that extent. It was just a thing I have noticed over the years that the hardest part of running a large website like that is the moderation.

Troll, Skids, and I do not have the time to moderate full time as it appears we need to now.

JAK
2008-07-01, 15:04
No Rules for the Unruled Exploited!

Nah, they're ok. Pretty common sense really.

I saw that slogan on a young punks leather jacket years ago. Thought it was cool. I was a young Naval Officer at the time. Felt I missed my calling as an anarchist, now here I am. That's my story. :burnout:

enviro
2008-07-01, 15:06
I don't think Dixi would take a moderator position - she hated it the first time too. I don't think we could afford to pay someone to do it either. We are afloat financially but not to that extent. It was just a thing I have noticed over the years that the hardest part of running a large website like that is the moderation.

Troll, Skids, and I do not have the time to moderate full time as it appears we need to now.

Can't say that I blame her. The way that I've seen her, FD, all of you guys slammed by people not getting their way or for whatever reason. Not to mention the mountains of PMs that I bet you all get from complaints. Not an enviable position to have.

JAK
2008-07-01, 15:08
Cheers Weasel. :beerglass

:beer:

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 15:08
I don't think Dixi would take a moderator position - she hated it the first time too. I don't think we could afford to pay someone to do it either. We are afloat financially but not to that extent. It was just a thing I have noticed over the years that the hardest part of running a large website like that is the moderation.

Troll, Skids, and I do not have the time to moderate full time as it appears we need to now.


Sounds like your are victims of your own success. Have you considered moving towards a slightly more commercialized state? Certainly, the number of visitors should be attractive to pull in more advertising dollars to offset the cost of a full time moderator.

The Weasel
2008-07-01, 15:09
Your posts make me feel like a scolded child. Is that by intent, if so it could explain the reaction you get sometimes.

Env -

I'm not scolding, and I'm sorry you feel that way. If you look at what I wrote, and ponder a bit, you'll see, i think, that I think that this would be a good time for all of us - and again, note that I said "us" - to hold off on all the recriminations, accusations, nominations and more. Rick ("Troll") and Ern ("Sgt Rock") have to be under a lot of stress, and even though Rock has made a gracious post here, this is hard: They are obviously unhappy with a lot of behaviors at WB, and to see smaller versions of those flame wars start to erupt elsewhere, particularly on Rock's "personal" site, might reasonably add to that stress.

Even if it doesn't, I think Rick's post about the suspension of WB has to give all of us some pause, and to reflect on what we've said and done there. So no, I'm not chastising you, or anyone. I simply mean what I said: This would be a good time for all of us - yes, us - to let happen what is going to happen, and to let Rick and Ern make those calls without further pressure. We owe them a lot; let's make things easier for them for a change.

TW

ed bell
2008-07-01, 15:13
I don't think Dixi would take a moderator position - she hated it the first time too. I don't think we could afford to pay someone to do it either. We are afloat financially but not to that extent. It was just a thing I have noticed over the years that the hardest part of running a large website like that is the moderation.

Troll, Skids, and I do not have the time to moderate full time as it appears we need to now.
The ol' "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I wish I had the time to help out, but I'd be willing to bet that running tag team moderation could get very complicated. I guess that remaining civil and setting a good example without trying to act like a moderator is a good way to help out.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 15:23
Well for my part I hope we can stay off the flame wars here. There has only ever been one that I can remember and that was over stoves.

I personally feel that the issue is people that maintain a continuous state of verbal war with other members. People that have had an argument(s) with one guy for months (sometimes years) that they allow to become a part of any interaction. Some of these are over things that happen on the trail - and I will be blunt and say that Jack Tarlin and Warren Doyle come to mind immediately. But others get rooted in discussions that happen on the board - and as I have pointed out so many times: these discussions are mostly in the political area. My recent interaction in that area has given me cause to thin that even more. I don't want to name names, but reading some of the threads outside of politics that led to this - it was the same guys that argue over in politics arguing the same way outside that area about something trail related. And when an Administrator stepped in on one of those - one of the parties (or sides) of that trail argument accused the moderator of "taking sides" when, as an outsider reading in - the moderator had not done so.

Anyway, what I think will probably happen is this:

1. We will try to find some moderators that will moderate. The more people that can be around and help cover the board when the others are at work or whatever, the better. The flip side as I have found is a moderator cannot also be someone that participates a lot since they will be accused of taking sides in an argument. So many of the people that would probably be around the most to help are the people that are lest likely to work.

2. Were probably going to have to throw some water on some particular individuals to calm them down. The usual thing is they will all say it is someone else's fault they act like they do and we are being unfair - instead of realizing they are part of the problem too.

3. We may have to put a moratorium on the politics section for a while. That will skin some noses off the people that are regulars there and I am sure we will hear from that wing as well.

4. Administrators and moderators will over react at times and over moderate. We are not perfect. But right now we are in reaction mode.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 15:23
The ol' "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I wish I had the time to help out, but I'd be willing to bet that running tag team moderation could get very complicated. I guess that remaining civil and setting a good example without trying to act like a moderator is a good way to help out.
You and two speed have always been level headed on the board - I think you guys would make good moderators.

Lone Wolf
2008-07-01, 15:49
3. We may have to put a moratorium on the politics section for a while. That will skin some noses off the people that are regulars there and I am sure we will hear from that wing as well.


totally do away with any discussions/rants about politics, race or religion in any of the forums on Whiteblaze. it is a hiking website. like i said before, most that post in non-AT/politics hardly post in hiking forums. there's aton of political forums on the WWW they can go to

JAK
2008-07-01, 16:11
It's hard to say sometimes where exactly politics starts, especially with respect to environmental issues, even stuff like the price of stuff, but yeah. Religion is a funny one also sometimes, but yeah. Trouble is it is so easy for people to turn anything they don't want to hear into a banned topic. In the end people have to respect the interpretation and judgement of moderators, and the proprietry of a website, and that's that. Might be hard for some of us tom, dick, and harry evangalists to take sometimes, but there it is.

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 16:21
What LW said.

Also, it might be helpful if some repeated discussions that get people riled up were boiled down into articles - to filter/not filter, hiking sticks, dog etiquette etc. If the articles are done right, read balanced , instead of repeating discussions, threads could be shutdown pointing to articles. Open up the discussion once a year to review any new ideas/alternatives.

enviro
2008-07-01, 16:25
Env -

I'm not scolding, and I'm sorry you feel that way. If you look at what I wrote, and ponder a bit, you'll see, i think, that I think that this would be a good time for all of us - and again, note that I said "us" - to hold off on all the recriminations, accusations, nominations and more. Rick ("Troll") and Ern ("Sgt Rock") have to be under a lot of stress, and even though Rock has made a gracious post here, this is hard: They are obviously unhappy with a lot of behaviors at WB, and to see smaller versions of those flame wars start to erupt elsewhere, particularly on Rock's "personal" site, might reasonably add to that stress.

Even if it doesn't, I think Rick's post about the suspension of WB has to give all of us some pause, and to reflect on what we've said and done there. So no, I'm not chastising you, or anyone. I simply mean what I said: This would be a good time for all of us - yes, us - to let happen what is going to happen, and to let Rick and Ern make those calls without further pressure. We owe them a lot; let's make things easier for them for a change.

TW

I respect what you are saying here TW. The point that I was making maybe had more to do with me and how I choose to read into your posts as much or more than what you actually write into them. Plus, I honestly don't think you are reaching your target audience in this group. There have been very few of the problems posting here in the last few days.

I like WB. I like this site also and have posted here prior to WB going down. It seems there are ways to disagree or share different ideas, which I think can be thought provoking, without generating hard feelings or having to be "right" and the other guy "wrong". At least with most people.

All in all the vast majority of folks do get along and don't require the services of rules enforcement. Hopefully the number of those folks increase.

enviro
2008-07-01, 16:35
What LW said.

Also, it might be helpful if some repeated discussions that get people riled up were boiled down into articles - to filter/not filter, hiking sticks, dog etiquette etc. If the articles are done right, read balanced , instead of repeating discussions, threads could be shutdown pointing to articles. Open up the discussion once a year to review any new ideas/alternatives.

You're right Tin Man, I too have seen it happen many times. The root question is: why on earth do people get so riled up about to filter/not filter, hiking poles/no hiking poles? I don't get that.

I think it boils down in many cases to: I'm right so you have to be wrong. I've seen people start replys with "you are wrong". I just don't see that there is only 1 answer to all of the questions that are posed out there.

Dogs...that is a whole different ball of wax. Many see their dogs as a family member, so when someone doesn't want them around it's almost like substituting the word "children" for the word "dogs".

jeb
2008-07-01, 16:40
totally do away with any discussions/rants about politics, race or religion in any of the forums on Whiteblaze. it is a hiking website. like i said before, most that post in non-AT/politics hardly post in hiking forums. there's aton of political forums on the WWW they can go to

I agree. I never signed up for it. Total waste of time. No one is ever going to change any one's mind on a public forum.

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 16:54
You're right Tin Man, I too have seen it happen many times. The root question is: why on earth do people get so riled up about to filter/not filter, hiking poles/no hiking poles? I don't get that.

I think it boils down in many cases to: I'm right so you have to be wrong. I've seen people start replys with "you are wrong". I just don't see that there is only 1 answer to all of the questions that are posed out there.

Dogs...that is a whole different ball of wax. Many see their dogs as a family member, so when someone doesn't want them around it's almost like substituting the word "children" for the word "dogs".

Well some of the repeated topics naturally draw out the cynics who are just bored, so they say stuff.

I would modify your last sentence as follows: "Many see their dogs as a family member, so when someone doesn't want them around it's almost like substituting the word "children" for the word "dog owners" :biggrin:

enviro
2008-07-01, 17:00
Well some of the repeated topics naturally draw out the cynics who are just bored, so they say stuff.

I would modify your last sentence as follows: "Many see their dogs as a family member, so when someone doesn't want them around it's almost like substituting the word "children" for the word "dog owners" :biggrin:

I see your point.

FranceyS
2008-07-01, 17:03
Whoops! That touches a chord!
My dog is a family member... my dog-child. Whither I goest, she goes!
I clean up after her so she's acceptable in campgrounds.
I love her and she repays me by loving me. She asks nothing from me but to accept her attention and love. She warns me of unseen strangers present when we are hiking. For a hiking woman, that's important.
She's trustworthy. She never nags me. She touches me with devotion.
She never cusses. She's just plain GOOD company. And, she doesn't know the character of people who for some reason or other don't like that close-knit bonding between an owner and their dog; she ignores that and actually befriends those people. Why? I don't know. I turn away from them. I sense them instantly. One's best, most trusted friend is their 4-footed companion. Just my two cents.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 17:06
I think the problem with the politics forum can basically be boiled down to three points, and they are about the people that cause the issues:

1. There are people that cannot separate themselves from politics - to them everything is about politics.

2. There are folks who make character judgements about people based on their political associations and beliefs.

3. There are those that believe that anything is OK to support their cause and to denigrate the other side.

What I have seen is these folks have their spats in politics and then when they post about something like the Kennebec ferry they continue to maintain the fact that "HikerX is a bad guy because he is a Republican" and use that line of thought when talking about ford vs ferry on the Kennebec. If you take a position that the ATC supports the ferry and it is a safe way to cross (all facts) then to a person like this you are only saying that because you are on HikerX's side.

There are people who are regulars in the politics who I didn't know what "side" they were on because I stayed out of that area for months. I've seen most memberrs as just members with some good advice and some bad advice - but still just members.

I recently went back in and now some of the comments that regulars have made to me about who the trouble makers are - well it makes sense now to see what their perspective is because of how they post and act in there.

All that said, I wish it were possible to talk politics with my friends on WhiteBlaze without all that sort of crap.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 17:09
The whole other thing like dogs, guns, cell phones, etc. That is like a whole other subject. I'm a dog owner, lover, and have hiked with dogs. But say that some areas should be forbiden to dogs or that some hiking dogs should not be on the trail at all and suddenly you get labled a dog hater. And then you start finding yourself debating a point you never held which is something like "banning all dogs from trails". It's happened to me so many times I don't keep track of it.

You could say the same thing about cell phones, guns, and even SHELTERS.

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 17:29
Rock:

Some thoughts on limiting the bs...

Politics - you named all the reasons why politics should be banned. Can't see any reason to keep them. ban it.

Dogs - a well-balanced summary article and ban discussion. Because there ain't nothing to discuss. close any discussion after xx posts (maybe 10).

Cell phones - Non-issue. It is just about being polite when speaking on the phone. Same as off-trail. close it after 10 posts

Guns - delicate topic. close it after 10 posts. or call it politics and ban it.

Shelters - good topic for well balanced article. close discussions after 10 posts.

Hiking sticks, filtering/not filtering, etc. - well balanced articles to cover all areas, close discussions after xx posts.

I will even volunteer to write some of this and take all the abuse from the reviewers. :biggrin:

matthew
2008-07-01, 17:30
It will be interesting to know how WB will proceed with this. It can be difficult to keep the peace on even my little forum. I can only imagine something the size of whiteblaze. I only hope we can learn something from the experience. Good luck to everyone over there..

JAK
2008-07-01, 17:38
Whoops! That touches a chord!
My dog is a family member... my dog-child. Whither I goest, she goes!
I clean up after her so she's acceptable in campgrounds.
I love her and she repays me by loving me. She asks nothing from me but to accept her attention and love. She warns me of unseen strangers present when we are hiking. For a hiking woman, that's important.
She's trustworthy. She never nags me. She touches me with devotion.
She never cusses. She's just plain GOOD company. And, she doesn't know the character of people who for some reason or other don't like that close-knit bonding between an owner and their dog; she ignores that and actually befriends those people. Why? I don't know. I turn away from them. I sense them instantly. One's best, most trusted friend is their 4-footed companion. Just my two cents.Here we go. Another religious fanatic. :ahhhhh:

I'm with you. I love dogs. I don't have a dog only because my wife is allergic.
But I go crazy over them when I see them. Really. I'm like a poorly trained dog. They should put me on a leash.

enviro
2008-07-01, 17:42
Whoops! That touches a chord!
My dog is a family member... my dog-child. Whither I goest, she goes!
I clean up after her so she's acceptable in campgrounds.
I love her and she repays me by loving me. She asks nothing from me but to accept her attention and love. She warns me of unseen strangers present when we are hiking. For a hiking woman, that's important.
She's trustworthy. She never nags me. She touches me with devotion.
She never cusses. She's just plain GOOD company. And, she doesn't know the character of people who for some reason or other don't like that close-knit bonding between an owner and their dog; she ignores that and actually befriends those people. Why? I don't know. I turn away from them. I sense them instantly. One's best, most trusted friend is their 4-footed companion. Just my two cents.

That is my point exactly. There are people that love their dogs and people that don't like dogs at all. It's a very emotional issue for the owners and often no in between for either.


I think the problem with the politics forum can basically be boiled down to three points, and they are about the people that cause the issues:

1. There are people that cannot separate themselves from politics - to them everything is about politics.

2. There are folks who make character judgements about people based on their political associations and beliefs.

3. There are those that believe that anything is OK to support their cause and to denigrate the other side.

What I have seen is these folks have their spats in politics and then when they post about something like the Kennebec ferry they continue to maintain the fact that "HikerX is a bad guy because he is a Republican" and use that line of thought when talking about ford vs ferry on the Kennebec. If you take a position that the ATC supports the ferry and it is a safe way to cross (all facts) then to a person like this you are only saying that because you are on HikerX's side.

There are people who are regulars in the politics who I didn't know what "side" they were on because I stayed out of that area for months. I've seen most memberrs as just members with some good advice and some bad advice - but still just members.

I recently went back in and now some of the comments that regulars have made to me about who the trouble makers are - well it makes sense now to see what their perspective is because of how they post and act in there.

All that said, I wish it were possible to talk politics with my friends on WhiteBlaze without all that sort of crap.

Yeah I wish we could discuss politics too, but too many just don't want to hear the other side.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 17:43
Rock, maybe you should take politics off WB and bring it here.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 17:49
I an talk politics with my friends whenever I want to over here LOL. I do not want the WhiteBlaze politics over here because of the fanaticism that exists on all sides over there.

enviro
2008-07-01, 17:52
I an talk politics with my friends whenever I want to over here LOL. I do not want the WhiteBlaze politics over here because of the fanaticism that exists on all sides over there.

True you probably could talk politics here. You even talk guns here without folks screaming about it. That's an idea just tell the politics folks over there to move the discussion here.

JAK
2008-07-01, 17:53
Rock:

Some thoughts on limiting the bs...

Politics - you named all the reasons why politics should be banned. Can't see any reason to keep them. ban it.

Dogs - a well-balanced summary article and ban discussion. Because there ain't nothing to discuss. close any discussion after xx posts (maybe 10).

Cell phones - Non-issue. It is just about being polite when speaking on the phone. Same as off-trail. close it after 10 posts

Guns - delicate topic. close it after 10 posts. or call it politics and ban it.

Shelters - good topic for well balanced article. close discussions after 10 posts.

Hiking sticks, filtering/not filtering, etc. - well balanced articles to cover all areas, close discussions after xx posts.

I will even volunteer to write some of this and take all the abuse from the reviewers. :biggrin:I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Do you mean ban controversial discussions about Dogs, phones, guns, shelters etc, or any mention of them at all? Shelters? You mean whether or not to have them, whether ot not to use them, what exactly? What's left? I think you must mean the usual crap that keeps getting repeated over and over, but people should still be able to post about how much they love their dogs etc, and hiking sticks too, I suppose.

Carl: "Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I killed all the golfers, wouldn't I go to jail or something like that"

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:00
Well what I try to do (when I am around) on subjects like that over at WhiteBlaze is give them about 2 pages of discussion and then close them down. Once all sides have had their say, the rest becomes re-hash of the same debate for the most part. So if I am reading about dogs and guns on a site and all parties have given their .02, then I am still going to make up my own mind. Seeing people get mean about it won't help me make a rational decision.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:01
True you probably could talk politics here. You even talk guns here without folks screaming about it. That's an idea just tell the politics folks over there to move the discussion here.
When it comes to guns I often do. When it comes to some of the politics there I wouldn't dream of it because I don't really care for the way some of those folks act in support of their cause. I would probably delete many of the posts that go up there if someone tried them here. But I see HikingHQ and WhiteBlaze as having two totally different characters.

mowgli
2008-07-01, 18:03
But I see HikingHQ and WhiteBlaze as having two totally different characters.

An armed society is a polite society. :biggrin:

Home Fires
2008-07-01, 18:04
As one of my favorite sites puts it:
"Imagine yourself at a friend of a friend's party. You mingle with other guests, strike up some conversations, and generally get along with everyone else even if they might not share the same opinions as you do on everything. You don't go ripping on people for having a different view of something, jumping up and down on the couch and calling them stupid. You'd be shown the door. So it is [here].

We like to say "think twice, post once." Be respectful of your fellow posters, agree to disagree when differences present themselves, and never ever make things personal. Otherwise, you'll get a ticket on the Size-Nine Express.

Good Manners and Respect Dos and Don'ts

DON'T use "um," be snotty to another poster, or make the argument personal
DON'T talk about the boards on the boards
DO know the difference between differences of opinion and personal attacks
DON'T present your opinions as facts
DON'T post the same opinion over and over in the hopes of wearing other people down or "winning" a discussion; just move on

JAK
2008-07-01, 18:07
The partisan politics is what gets me, on both sides, not just the fanaticism. Some folks are very partisan without neccessarily being extreme one way or the other. Whatever their party says, that's it. I prefer to take politics without talking about parties, or even labels like liberal and conservative, but nowadays even buzzwords can get people going. I had no idea that humanism was a bad thing. It doesn't mean to some people what it means to me I guess. Crazy how polarized things have gotten, not just politics but everything. It's like if you believe in anthroprogenic global warming you are automatically a gay marriage supporting communist buddhist atheist that hates hiking sticks, and sleeps with dogs in shelters. It's crazy.

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 18:07
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Do you mean ban controversial discussions about Dogs, phones, guns, shelters etc, or any mention of them at all? Shelters? You mean whether or not to have them, whether ot not to use them, what exactly? What's left? I think you must mean the usual crap that keeps getting repeated over and over, but people should still be able to post about how much they love their dogs etc, and hiking sticks too, I suppose.

Carl: "Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I killed all the golfers, wouldn't I go to jail or something like that"

Just thought the repeat topics could be addressed once not every day. One approach would be to do as Rock says, allow the repeat discussions go on for two pages and close them down. Another would be to reorganize the forums by topics and/or highlight the article sections better or have more people pointing to the articles rather than repeating the same discussions. More articles on common topics would help.

JAK
2008-07-01, 18:10
Um, what's wrong with um?

Great rule. Love it!

p.s. Though I'm thinking she doesn't go to some of the same parties that I do.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:11
An armed society is a polite society. :biggrin:
I think that is part of it. Although I couldn't shoot some of the members here because they are too far away. :secruity:

But I think that HikingHQ draws a more conservative crowd for the most part. Mostly political conservative (but not all), but also more conservative in deportment and posting. We do cut up, but we rarely bicker over here even when we do disagree. And, that said, even the politically conservative folks over here are more refined about the occasional expression of opinions. For the most part we leave that discussion alone.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 18:13
When it comes to guns I often do. When it comes to some of the politics there I wouldn't dream of it because I don't really care for the way some of those folks act in support of their cause. I would probably delete many of the posts that go up there if someone tried them here. But I see HikingHQ and WhiteBlaze as having two totally different characters.Exactly why I'd like to see it here. You wouldn't let it become a battle of personalities, but would allow the issues to be freely discussed. As you note, the sites have totally different characters.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:13
The partisan politics is what gets me, on both sides, not just the fanaticism. Some folks are very partisan without neccessarily being extreme one way or the other. Whatever their party says, that's it. I prefer to take politics without talking about parties, or even labels like liberal and conservative, but nowadays even buzzwords can get people going. I had no idea that humanism was a bad thing. It doesn't mean to some people what it means to me I guess. Crazy how polarized things have gotten, not just politics but everything. It's like if you believe in anthroprogenic global warming you are automatically a gay marriage supporting communist buddhist atheist that hates hiking sticks, and sleeps with dogs in shelters. It's crazy.
I know what you mean. I refer to this as the tribalization of politics. In Arab culture there is a "spiral of trust" and you can use this to help plot how someone my act or aline themselves. I have found the same principle to work on WhiteBlaze and some of the same concepts of tribalization to work in politics.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 18:15
::: Dino seen with tribal tat and bone thru nose :::

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:16
Exactly why I'd like to see it here. You wouldn't let it become a battle of personalities, but would allow the issues to be freely discussed. As you note, the sites have totally different characters.
It might not be as free as you imagine. I would probably shut some of those guys down totally. I could name some names, but won't. I will say they tend to post on the left though so it would probably end up an affirmed right wing site (which I also don't want) instead of just a hiking site with conservative minded folks.

mowgli
2008-07-01, 18:18
I still haven't bought my gun yet Sarge. But when I finally do, there will be ham for everyone! Iffin I can shoot straight - that is.

enviro
2008-07-01, 18:22
When it comes to guns I often do. When it comes to some of the politics there I wouldn't dream of it because I don't really care for the way some of those folks act in support of their cause. I would probably delete many of the posts that go up there if someone tried them here. But I see HikingHQ and WhiteBlaze as having two totally different characters.

I was just joking about bringing it here. I wouldn't put up with it if it was my site.

There are 2 different characters to the 2 sites. Much more polite here, even in disagreement. It can be that way with respectful, considerate adults.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:24
Let me know when you are ready to buy Jeff. I recently bought a much lighter rifle in the same caliber that the NPS hunters are using for those piggies that would be much lighter than the one I showed you. You could try shooting it to see if it fits your needs and then later I can help you get sighted in.

JAK
2008-07-01, 18:25
Just thought the repeat topics could be addressed once not every day. One approach would be to do as Rock says, allow the repeat discussions go on for two pages and close them down. Another would be to reorganize the forums by topics and/or highlight the article sections better or have more people pointing to the articles rather than repeating the same discussions. More articles on common topics would help.Yeah, I get you now. I figured that's what you meant. The articles idea in particular is a good one I think.

enviro
2008-07-01, 18:26
The partisan politics is what gets me, on both sides, not just the fanaticism. Some folks are very partisan without neccessarily being extreme one way or the other. Whatever their party says, that's it. I prefer to take politics without talking about parties, or even labels like liberal and conservative, but nowadays even buzzwords can get people going. I had no idea that humanism was a bad thing. It doesn't mean to some people what it means to me I guess. Crazy how polarized things have gotten, not just politics but everything. It's like if you believe in anthroprogenic global warming you are automatically a gay marriage supporting communist buddhist atheist that hates hiking sticks, and sleeps with dogs in shelters. It's crazy.

Are you suggesting voting for the candidate and not the party? That's a pretty archaic idea.:biggrin:

Home Fires
2008-07-01, 18:27
Um, what's wrong with um?

Well, JAK, they're glad you asked:
Why can't I start my posts with the word "um," be a snotty jerk, or present my views as God's TV gospel?

Don't start your posts with "um" or "uh" or words like that. Nine times out of ten, those words precede a snotty correction directed at another poster. It's rude and dismissive and it drives the staff nuts, so please, don't do it. The same goes for "sorry, but..." and "excuse me, but..." and, really, any other snitty post-starter. If you can't talk to other people as if they're intelligent, you can't post. Don't talk down to your fellow posters, don't lecture them, and don't state your opinion as fact.


p.s. Though I'm thinking she doesn't go to some of the same parties that I do.
Snerk!

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:30
I was just joking about bringing it here. I wouldn't put up with it if it was my site.

There are 2 different characters to the 2 sites. Much more polite here, even in disagreement. It can be that way with respectful, considerate adults.
I think that is part of it. I have never really seen WhiteBlaze as "my site" but as it was envisioned: A Community of Appalachian Trail Enthusiasts.

So, in that line of thinking, I tend to be more open minded about what goes on over. I may be on one side of an issue over there, but it is still a comunity and not me.

Over here, this site started as the Engman Family Hiking Page. The name was a little clunky, so we changed to HikingHQ. The kids lost interest and I was the only one doing it - until 2003 when I deployed. At that point there was some political discussion, but when it started going anti-war because I was going to go fight in the war, my wife shut that whole line of posting down because that was the last thing she wanted to deal with. I was there, I was fighting it, and it didn't matter what the debate was. Probably the best thing for her sanity.

So anyway. This site has more of that Dixi and Rock world view. But neither of us are polar in our beliefs and are both open to listening to others. We just don't like having the site used as a pulpit for the politicos.

mowgli
2008-07-01, 18:30
Let me know when you are ready to buy Jeff. I recently bought a much lighter rifle in the same caliber that the NPS hunters are using for those piggies that would be much lighter than the one I showed you. You could try shooting it to see if it fits your needs and then later I can help you get sighted in.

I would really like that. Thanks. I haven't shot much since I was a kid plinking cans with my Dad's .22 rifle.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 18:31
It might not be as free as you imagine. I would probably shut some of those guys down totally. I could name some names, but won't. I will say they tend to post on the left though so it would probably end up an affirmed right wing site (which I also don't want) instead of just a hiking site with conservative minded folks.Would you shut me down?

enviro
2008-07-01, 18:31
Well, JAK, they're glad you asked:
Why can't I start my posts with the word "um," be a snotty jerk, or present my views as God's TV gospel?

Don't start your posts with "um" or "uh" or words like that. Nine times out of ten, those words precede a snotty correction directed at another poster. It's rude and dismissive and it drives the staff nuts, so please, don't do it. The same goes for "sorry, but..." and "excuse me, but..." and, really, any other snitty post-starter. If you can't talk to other people as if they're intelligent, you can't post. Don't talk down to your fellow posters, don't lecture them, and don't state your opinion as fact.


Snerk!

I like the rules. Really just common decency. Especially the one about don't post your opinions as fact.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:31
I would really like that. Thanks. I haven't shot much since I was a kid plinking cans with my Dad's .22 rifle.
No problem Jeff. I also would be willing to loan you a rifle or two to try out once you get started to see what works for you. I figure it is nice to try before you buy - a chance you cannot always get at a gun store.

JAK
2008-07-01, 18:34
Are you suggesting voting for the candidate and not the party? That's a pretty archaic idea.:biggrin:That's me.
I'm beyond conservative. I'm archaic.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:36
Would you shut me down?
I don't think so. I haven't seen you start a topic: McBush Covers Up his Navy Records

That sort of BS headline and point of attack gets me. I gotta be honest - I tend to have a soft spot in my heart for a guy that has done some of the things McCain has done and been through some of the things he has been through. Even if I do not agree with him politically. Even if I don't know if I can or would vote for him. But those sorts of posts and threads just irk the crap out of me and I wouldn't stand for them here. Not one second.

As for me, I think McCain is more liberal than the Democrats would have you think. His positions on things are way more complicated than "Bush III"

And I also think Obama is more conservative on some of his ideas and more pragmatic than some of the other side would have you think.

I can honestly say I have not decided how to vote or who to support.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:40
That's me.
I'm beyond conservative. I'm archaic.
Good one.

I call myself conservative because that is how I think of myself.

I don't like what the political definition of "Conservative" means today. It seems to mean that you have to be a hawk on military action. It seems to mean you have to want people to be in political office for dog catcher based on how they feel about guns and abortion. It tends to seem that it means gays are second class citizens until they get straight. It tends to seem that it means you have to swallow that GWB is a good President and time will prove it to be so. It seems to mean you have to be a Republican.

That ain't me.

So I occasionally get labeled as "Not conservative enough" whatever that means.

enviro
2008-07-01, 18:41
I don't think so. I haven't seen you start a topic: McBush Covers Up his Navy Records

That sort of BS headline and point of attack gets me. I gotta be honest - I tend to have a soft spot in my heart for a guy that has done some of the things McCain has done and been through some of the things he has been through. Even if I do not agree with him politically. Even if I don't know if I can or would vote for him. But those sorts of posts and threads just irk the crap out of me and I wouldn't stand for them here. Not one second.

As for me, I think McCain is more liberal than the Democrats would have you think. His positions on things are way more complicated than "Bush III"

And I also think Obama is more conservative on some of his ideas and more pragmatic than some of the other side would have you think.

I can honestly say I have not decided how to vote or who to support.

I remember several of those threads, the "Osama Obama" one was another that comes to mind. Those are to start argument, not discussion. I don't know why I recently asked back into that forum. Curiosity I guess, cause I don't intend to participate.

JAK
2008-07-01, 18:41
Well, JAK, they're glad you asked:
Why can't I start my posts with the word "um," be a snotty jerk, or present my views as God's TV gospel?

Don't start your posts with "um" or "uh" or words like that. Nine times out of ten, those words precede a snotty correction directed at another poster. It's rude and dismissive and it drives the staff nuts, so please, don't do it. The same goes for "sorry, but..." and "excuse me, but..." and, really, any other snitty post-starter. If you can't talk to other people as if they're intelligent, you can't post. Don't talk down to your fellow posters, don't lecture them, and don't state your opinion as fact.


Snerk!Yeah I got that. Great rule. I see that alot on some sites. I was just being silly.

I liked your snerk. Had to look that one up.
Yeah, some of our kitchen parties can get pretty heated here in the Maritimes. :)

p.s. Not as bad a Newfoundland though. They're totally nuts over their, like te were still in the auld country, where ever that is.
Did you read the "Shipping News" where they threw that guy a going away party, then sunk his boat so he had to stay. That really happens.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 18:42
I remember several of those threads, the "Osama Obama" one was another that comes to mind. Those are to start argument, not discussion. I don't know why I recently asked back into that forum. Curiosity I guess, cause I don't intend to participate.
Yes, those are others I would not put up with either.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 18:42
I don't think so. I haven't seen you start a topic: McBush Covers Up his Navy Records::: Dino seen mopping beads of sweat from brow and giving Rock a Dino nuzzle :::
As for me, I think McCain is more liberal than the Democrats would have you think. His positions on things are way more complicated than "Bush III"

And I also think Obama is more conservative on some of his ideas and more pragmatic than some of the other side would have you think.Discussing things like why you believe what is stated above - rationally and without trying to dis' the folks on the other side - is exactly what I'd like to do. Sadly, I don't think it possible at WB. When I was a mod, I voted to keep the political area, but I'd change my vote today.

enviro
2008-07-01, 18:44
Good one.

I call myself conservative because that is how I think of myself.

I don't like what the political definition of "Conservative" means today. It seems to mean that you have to be a hawk on military action. It seems to mean you have to want people to be in political office for dog catcher based on how they feel about guns and abortion. It tends to seem that it means gays are second class citizens until they get straight. It tends to seem that it means you have to swallow that GWB is a good President and time will prove it to be so. It seems to mean you have to be a Republican.

That ain't me.

So I occasionally get labeled as "Not conservative enough" whatever that means.

The other thing that it seems to mean is that you want religion integrated into your government. I could care less what religious beliefs people have, that's up to them. I just don't want my government to be run by a belief.

JAK
2008-07-01, 19:06
I've heard McCain dismissed as a nice old man with bad policies, but I think there is way more too him than that. I also agree that Obama is quite conservative. I think both are pragmatic, but not to the point of just being professional politicians that will go with anything. Wouldn't have minded Hilary as a neighbour either, but I think both Obama and McCain represent more of a change with respect to lobbying and such. I could be wrong. I think we will see good things from her yet, though not neccessarily as VP. Joe Lieberman surprises me. Not sure what's up his butt. I liked him as VP candidate last time. Perhaps he's just playing hard ball. If any of those guys invited me for dinner I'd be there in a heartbeat. I'd even bring my own plate. It will be interesting to see who the VPs are, but I would like to see a move away from what seems like a trend for the Pres. to be more of a figurehead and the VPres. to be the real deal behind the scenes. I'm not saying the VPres. should be weak. I'm just saying the Pres. should not be diminished in any way from what he is supposed to be to the American people, and the world.

I hope it doesn't get too ugly between Obama and McCain,
but I look forward to USA leading us all to a brighter future either way.

Home Fires
2008-07-01, 19:10
I was just being silly.
Oh so was I. They spell out EVERYTHING. (Which, as someone pointed out, comes down to basic courtesy... wouldn't think you'd need to spell it out, huh?) Every one of the bullet points (and there are lots more) have many paragraphs detailing them. Of course, that makes it easy to boot someone because there's no saying "well, I didn't know you meant that..." Takes heavy moderation, though. Pleasure to be there; can't imagine trying to run it.

Based on what I'm reading here I'm thinking I'm glad I haven't actually ventured into the political forum. Had no idea that it was so contentious or that much of what I see is actually spillover from in there.

JAK
2008-07-01, 19:29
The other thing that it seems to mean is that you want religion integrated into your government. I could care less what religious beliefs people have, that's up to them. I just don't want my government to be run by a belief.I sort of agree. I do care what religious beliefs the fellow has. I'm not so particular about which particular religion it is, even if its some humanistic form of atheism. But I want to know what makes them tick, if you know what I mean. I agree with separation of Church and State, but I don't see anything wrong with them dropping the G word now and then. I think people should always be capable of translating that into their own theological or at least philosophical language. When someone say "Merry Christmas", or Habari Gani, or Īd mubārak, or "The sky is blue, the grass is green, may we have our Halloween", its not really what they say that matters, but how they say it, and ultimately how they act. But I think its important that people be allowed to express their own individuality fully, even and especially if they are leading an entire nation of such diverse thoughts and sentiments. There are always common threads. We just need to be better weavers.

enviro
2008-07-01, 19:30
I've heard McCain dismissed as a nice old man with bad policies, but I think there is way more too him than that. I also agree that Obama is quite conservative. I think both are pragmatic, but not to the point of just being professional politicians that will go with anything. Wouldn't have minded Hilary as a neighbour either, but I think both Obama and McCain represent more of a change with respect to lobbying and such. I could be wrong. I think we will see good things from her yet, though not neccessarily as VP. Joe Lieberman surprises me. Not sure what's up his butt. I liked him as VP candidate last time. Perhaps he's just playing hard ball. If any of those guys invited me for dinner I'd be there in a heartbeat. I'd even bring my own plate. It will be interesting to see who the VPs are, but I would like to see a move away from what seems like a trend for the Pres. to be more of a figurehead and the VPres. to be the real deal behind the scenes. I'm not saying the VPres. should be weak. I'm just saying the Pres. should not be diminished in any way from what he is supposed to be to the American people, and the world.

I hope it doesn't get too ugly between Obama and McCain,
but I look forward to USA leading us all to a brighter future either way.

Unfortunately Jak, I think it will get very very ugly. That just seems to be the way things are already shaping up and they haven't even gotten started good yet.

I don't think that Hillary will be the VP, just because I'm not sure she's ready to play 2nd fiddle. I think that her campaign felt they had it won before it got started, then seemed to make one mistake right after another that blew up in their faces.


Got to go, later

oops56
2008-07-01, 19:30
Well i am kind of glad that wb went down i got more yard work done and i got to see the wife little more.I put her to work helping me.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 19:35
::: Dino seen mopping beads of sweat from brow and giving Rock a Dino nuzzle :::Discussing things like why you believe what is stated above - rationally and without trying to dis' the folks on the other side - is exactly what I'd like to do. Sadly, I don't think it possible at WB. When I was a mod, I voted to keep the political area, but I'd change my vote today.
I tend to agree. I actually have fought to keep it open many times. I'm starting to grow weary of that fight. I probably would be better off finding a good political site and then re-directing any poster starting that sort of thing to the other site.

The other thing that it seems to mean is that you want religion integrated into your government. I could care less what religious beliefs people have, that's up to them. I just don't want my government to be run by a belief.
I totally agree. I'm glad a person has a religion to help them guide their personal actions - but I don't want them to impose that same framework into how I am to act.

I've heard McCain dismissed as a nice old man with bad policies, but I think there is way more too him than that. I also agree that Obama is quite conservative. I think both are pragmatic, but not to the point of just being professional politicians that will go with anything. Wouldn't have minded Hilary as a neighbour either, but I think both Obama and McCain represent more of a change with respect to lobbying and such. I could be wrong. I think we will see good things from her yet, though not neccessarily as VP. Joe Lieberman surprises me. Not sure what's up his butt. I liked him as VP candidate last time. Perhaps he's just playing hard ball. If any of those guys invited me for dinner I'd be there in a heartbeat. I'd even bring my own plate. It will be interesting to see who the VPs are, but I would like to see a move away from what seems like a trend for the Pres. to be more of a figurehead and the VPres. to be the real deal behind the scenes. I'm not saying the VPres. should be weak. I'm just saying the Pres. should not be diminished in any way from what he is supposed to be to the American people, and the world.

I hope it doesn't get too ugly between Obama and McCain,
but I look forward to USA leading us all to a brighter future either way.From what I have seen McCain and Obama are trying to stay above the fray and keep it "clean". But it appears to me the same actors that think that politics has to be a dirty business are set on keeping it that way with or without them.


Oh so was I. They spell out EVERYTHING. (Which, as someone pointed out, comes down to basic courtesy... wouldn't think you'd need to spell it out, huh?) Every one of the bullet points (and there are lots more) have many paragraphs detailing them. Of course, that makes it easy to boot someone because there's no saying "well, I didn't know you meant that..." Takes heavy moderation, though. Pleasure to be there; can't imagine trying to run it.

Based on what I'm reading here I'm thinking I'm glad I haven't actually ventured into the political forum. Had no idea that it was so contentious or that much of what I see is actually spillover from in there.
Stay out of politics. It is a crap fight. It is also addictive.

The other problem with rules, especially some that detailed, is you have people that get themselves into fights then try to use the rules to force you to solve their problems for them.

enviro
2008-07-01, 19:35
I sort of agree. I do care what religious beliefs the fellow has. I'm not so particular about which particular religion it is, even if its some humanistic form of atheism. But I want to know what makes them tick, if you know what I mean. I agree with separation of Church and State, but I don't see anything wrong with them dropping the G word now and then. I think people should always be capable of translating that into their own theological or at least philosophical language. When someone say "Merry Christmas", or Habari Gani, or Īd mubārak, or "The sky is blue, the grass is green, may we have our Halloween", its not really what they say that matters, but how they say it, and ultimately how they act. But I think its important that people be allowed to express their own individuality fully, even and especially if they are leading an entire nation of such diverse thoughts and sentiments. There are always common threads. We just need to be better weavers.

I agree completely Jak. My main concern is that I do not want political decisions made based upon religion and that church and state must remain autonomus. I think that Huckabee made the statement during his campaign that if elected he would modify the constitution of the United States to read as the word of God, not the word of man. That's scary to me. Not only that, but a stupid thing for a candidate to say, becasue the President does not have the power to change the Constitution to read anything.

JAK
2008-07-01, 19:41
Oh so was I. They spell out EVERYTHING. (Which, as someone pointed out, comes down to basic courtesy... wouldn't think you'd need to spell it out, huh?) Every one of the bullet points (and there are lots more) have many paragraphs detailing them. Of course, that makes it easy to boot someone because there's no saying "well, I didn't know you meant that..." Takes heavy moderation, though. Pleasure to be there; can't imagine trying to run it.

Based on what I'm reading here I'm thinking I'm glad I haven't actually ventured into the political forum. Had no idea that it was so contentious or that much of what I see is actually spillover from in there.Sounds like more of a Tea Party then a Kitchen Party, but I enjoy those also. It's fun trying to stay in a box, trying to fill in the corners as much as you can. Besides, love all those finger sandwiches where they cut the crust off and all that. Cream cheese and cherry, and those asparagus thingies. Ya know if they served those here or over at WB I might not type so much as I'd always have my hands full. I'll bet dixicritter and FD can throw a good party, both kinds, and L.Wolfs are legendary. If I ever take the Road to Damascus I know where I'm crashing.

JAK
2008-07-01, 19:48
I must be hungry or something. LOL.
Gotta go get me some food. Check back later.
It was really nice talking with you all.

The Weasel
2008-07-01, 20:14
Crazy how polarized things have gotten, not just politics but everything. It's like if you believe in anthroprogenic global warming you are automatically a gay marriage supporting communist buddhist atheist that hates hiking sticks, and sleeps with dogs in shelters. It's crazy.

And just what is wrong with being a gay-marriage supporting Communist Buddhist atheist who loathes walking sticks while sleeping with Frisky in the shelter? You must be one of those hetero-only Fascist Confucian fundamentalist stick-loving dog hating hammock users!!! DIE HEATHEN SCUM!!!

TW

JAK
2008-07-01, 20:43
See there. I knew you had it in you. LOL

p.s. Many of my friends are heathens, and only a few of them are hetero-only Fascist Confucian fundamentalist stick-loving dog hating hammock users.

The Weasel
2008-07-01, 20:54
See there. I knew you had it in you. LOL

p.s. Many of my friends are heathens, and only a few of them are hetero-only Fascist Confucian fundamentalist stick-loving dog hating hammock users.

I told you earlier wasn't the time. This was.

Nearly all of my friends are heathens, which is the best translation of "Sassenach." Doesn't mean they're bad. Just that they're not Scots. Which, in a way, is bad, but not intentional or correctible.

TW

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 20:58
I think you guys understand my point. I am not going to be a Wiccan, but have friends that are. I am not going to be gay, but have friends and relatives that are. I am not going to vote for Hillary Clinton (even if she were the nominee) but I have friends that would.

To me, being a conservative is how I do things. Not how I try to force others to be.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 21:10
Excellent synopsis of how to respect others.

Wise Old Owl
2008-07-01, 21:39
I don't think Dixi would take a moderator position - she hated it the first time too. I don't think we could afford to pay someone to do it either. We are afloat financially but not to that extent. It was just a thing I have noticed over the years that the hardest part of running a large website like that is the moderation.

Troll, Skids, and I do not have the time to moderate full time as it appears we need to now.



OK you have had plenty of folks that have stood up and volunteered; with no reply. As a person who really cares about this issue and even LW has asked "where is the trust?" Somewhere you and ATROL have to accept that us human beings would like to step up and have a shot at this with qualifications. There are people here on the sidelines that really do want to make a difference and clearly cannot prove themselves on the onset. What are you going to do about it? Is WB TOO PICKY? As a member I really do care too much as some others do. I understand the guidelines. Somehow the folks in control need more help because 1. they are overwhelmed and 2. Free help is desired. Nobody is Perfect, the important thing that all of us forgot is we can be fired. - Lets let some additional folk step up with management experience.


Come on guys... What you need to hike with your moderators? I am up for it.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 22:04
I have gotten a few volunteers tonight and we are going to have a conference call over it at about midnight. I will most certainly talk to troll and skids about volunteers and we are very willing to bump people up. Sorry if it doesn't always seem that way.

Wise Old Owl
2008-07-01, 22:06
----------

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 22:23
I'll go ahead and ask now before the conference, who is interested in being a moderator. When you answer, I would also like to know in what capacity.

Moderator for a particular forum or forums

Super moderator (all forums)

I've been writing up a list for tonight.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-01, 22:24
I'm withdrawing my earlier offer as you've said you don't want people who are active posters.

Tin Man
2008-07-01, 23:08
Rock: will there be any warning posts to "knock it off" or are posts just going to simply disappear? Personally, I found it more enlightening to see a warning post first. It tells everyone to calm down and it tells the lurkers that someone is watching and will take action. Dixi used to do this on occasion and I thought it was very effective. Certainly, I would think that extra nasty posts should simply disappear. I know it is a balancing act. Good luck with whatever you guys decide is best.

SGT Rock
2008-07-01, 23:53
What I try to do is a mix of both. Basically I tell the parties involved to stop it. Sometimes I call one to special attention. Then after a while I move the posts, including the rebuke, to a holding zone we have.

Tin Man
2008-07-02, 00:01
I guess what I was asking is there going to be less rebuking and more disappearing (holding zone)?

SGT Rock
2008-07-02, 01:00
I don't know. I think all of us have our own styles.

In the end I think we all have a desire to eventually get some of that stuff off the board so a new member doesn't get bogged down by it.

CaSteve
2008-07-02, 02:00
Wow, this is the most active topic I've seen on HikingHQ.

Seems some folks should spend more time hiking rather than sitting at their computer. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. Um, did I just make a religious reference?

BTW, I like warm puppies. Guns are good. I can't wait for January 20th. Cellphones are ok, but leave your Crackberry at home. It's smart to filter your water. Give me shelter!

Lone Wolf
2008-07-02, 05:04
bye hikinghq. whiteblaze is back up. i'm gonna go over there and work on getting banned. :beer:

Home Fires
2008-07-02, 08:19
Seems some folks should spend more time hiking rather than sitting at their computer.
Hey now -- I was gonna offer to moderate the couch potatoes forum.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-02, 08:29
bye hikinghq. whiteblaze is back up. i'm gonna go over there and work on getting banned. :beer:::: Dino seen making up guest room for the soon-to-exile LW :::

Wise Old Owl
2008-07-02, 11:05
Hope LW guest room has WiFi & High Speed access!

Wise Old Owl
2008-07-02, 11:08
I guess what I was asking is there going to be less rebuking and more disappearing (holding zone)?

Well I don't understand what you are saying, I have observed threads being moved to a Subscription Area and locked... is that what you mean?

JAK
2008-07-02, 11:29
I would love to try moderating, but I think I would fail miserably.

It might be interesting though, to let everyone that wants to give it a sincere effort to have a crack at it on a one time basis. Like just for one night. If nothing else it might give people more appreciation of the role of a moderator. Hey, maybe that's the answer. If someone violates the rules enough, then they have to serve as a moderator for one night, with limited powers, and do a fair job of it, before they get back to full posting priveleges. They wouldn't need to be given any special powers to edit or delete or move posts or anything. Just something in their avatar to indicate that they are on probation, and doing limited moderator duties as a punative and corrective public service.

enviro
2008-07-02, 12:05
Just something in their avatar to indicate that they are on probation, and doing limited moderator duties as a punative and corrective public service.

Kind of like the DUI offenders in Nashville. They have to pick up trash along the roadside wearing a bright orange vest that says "I'm a drunk driver" on it.

Wise Old Owl
2008-07-02, 14:18
You reminded me of this picture - I really identifed with it. This really makes the girls on the trail feel so much safer.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/Mala.jpg

enviro
2008-07-02, 15:18
You reminded me of this picture - I really identifed with it. This really makes the girls on the trail feel so much safer.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/Mala.jpg

Yep I'm sure that just makes everyone feel better. Probably helps hitchhiking too.

Sly
2008-07-02, 15:28
I go away for a fine weekend vacationing and I see I missed the fun again, must have been a real Southern Ruck to shut down WB! - .

Ah... what's that supposed to mean? From someone that's run the SoRuck succesfully for the past 5 years, it was uncalled for.

IMO, you're all barking up the wrong tree. Getting rid of the politics forum isn't going to cure rude behaviour. If you don't believe me, check out the dog forum, or threads that deal with guns, cellphones etc.

Of course, over the next couple weeks, without the political forum, things may appear to be cool since a harsh warning was issued but most will be on their best behaviour, so it won't be telling.

Wise Old Owl
2008-07-02, 15:30
Although, I have never met Mala I am sure he is well liked on the trail! The photo is from WB.

Wise Old Owl
2008-07-02, 15:40
Ah... what's that supposed to mean? From someone that's run the SoRuck succesfully for the past 5 years, it was uncalled for.

IMO, you're all barking up the wrong tree. Getting rid of the politics forum isn't going to cure rude behaviour. If you don't believe me, check out the dog forum, or threads that deal with guns, cellphones etc.

Of course, over the next couple weeks, without the political forum, things may appear to be cool since a harsh warning was issued but most will be on their best behaviour, so it won't be telling.

Many of the postings from people on WB "appear" to live in the south, my understanding of a "Southern Ruck" wasa big party and had nothing to do with SoRuck .... in short there was nothing ment by it. I was just so dissapointed that WB was down, I enjoy participating there. I was curious if it was in one forum or another, If something happened in the politic forum I would never have seen it.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-02, 16:00
Sly, I believe our Yankee friend, Mark, is having difficulty with our southern language and has confused a southern ruckus with SORUCK -- SORUCK is a social event with many fine programs and even finer food.

Mala is da' bomb. He dresses in the tie-dyed long johns with the harmless hiker sign for the parade at Trail Days. I took that pic just before he nearly drowned me with that super soaker he is holding in the pic :D

As for the political forum at WB - unless they plan to moderate it like the rest of the site, I feel it needs to go away because the vitroil allowed in the political forum spills out all over the site.

Wise Old Owl
2008-07-02, 17:12
Sly, I believe our Yankee friend, Mark, is having difficulty with our southern language and has confused a southern ruckus with SORUCK -- SORUCK is a social event with many fine programs and even finer food.

Mala is da' bomb. He dresses in the tie-dyed long johns with the harmless hiker sign for the parade at Trail Days. I took that pic just before he nearly drowned me with that super soaker he is holding in the pic :D

As for the political forum at WB - unless they plan to moderate it like the rest of the site, I feel it needs to go away because the vitroil allowed in the political forum spills out all over the site.

Well its not worth arguing about... but I am not a Yankee - I am Aussie. I and don't think I made a mistake... But am willing to apologize if I offended anyone. See post 210

SGT Rock
2008-07-03, 15:06
Oh geez. Lets calm down.

I can attest to the fact Lone Wolf is exactly what he says he is. He doesn't hold anything against anyone unless they personally give him cause to. And he is David Blair from Damascus.

He is the kind of guy that would help just about anyone until they give him cause not to.

JAK
2008-07-03, 15:49
I'm pretty sure The Weasel was joking with me in that post, in response to a post I had made.
Sorry about that. Unless I'm missing something, which is also likely. I'm guessing Weasel must have said something elsewhere.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-03, 15:56
Well its not worth arguing about... but I am not a Yankee - I am Aussie. I and don't think I made a mistake... But am willing to apologize if I offended anyone. See post 210My sincerest apology for having called you a Yankee.
Oh geez. Lets calm down.

I can attest to the fact Lone Wolf is exactly what he says he is. He doesn't hold anything against anyone unless they personally give him cause to. And he is David Blair from Damascus.

He is the kind of guy that would help just about anyone until they give him cause not to.I second what Rock has said.

I was called a bigot and worst over at WB by the same guys just prior to Troll pulling the plug. I cannot recall having ever been label a bigot before in my life. My take is that the fellows doing the slanderous name-calling are the ones with the problem. YMMV

enviro
2008-07-03, 16:28
IMO, you're all barking up the wrong tree. Getting rid of the politics forum isn't going to cure rude behaviour. If you don't believe me, check out the dog forum, or threads that deal with guns, cellphones etc.

Of course, over the next couple weeks, without the political forum, things may appear to be cool since a harsh warning was issued but most will be on their best behaviour, so it won't be telling.

Sly, I don't know if the political forum is THE problem or if it's just a group of folks that want to bicker about almost everything it seems. I do know that there are some folks that get everyone stirred up in the political forum that never post anywhere else (at least that I have seen). What business do they have on a hiking site? It seems out of place.

I think it's unfortunate that a group of adults can't have a civil disagreement and it goes to ugly personal so quickly. However, it's not my call, these are only my thoughts.

The Weasel
2008-07-03, 17:39
I have not engaged in, nor am I going to here now engage in, the debate with Lone Wolf and FD that I have, in this Site, only discussed with them in Private Messages. I have suggested here that WB disputes belong only on WB, not here, and that disputes should be private, and have kept them so.

JAK is right, as to the quoted text, I was joking with him, as he invited me to. It has nothing to do with what LW and FD have interjected here.

The Weasel

Tin Man
2008-07-04, 02:05
A lot of deleting going on in the new White Blaze. Some justified, others questionable. Overall - not good. YMMV

SGT Rock
2008-07-04, 05:52
Dang yall. Chill. You are about to break my record for only ever having one flame war on Hiking HQ.

dixicritter
2008-07-04, 05:59
I agree with Rock, come on y'all this site has a better record than this... let's keep it that way please. Leave the arguing and bickering elsewhere.

Lone Wolf
2008-07-04, 07:13
....................
the main sniveler took his toys and flitted off towards home

Amigi
2008-07-04, 09:37
Delete, got it. I just dont want this site to ever become like WB. This is a great place.

Wise Old Owl
2008-07-04, 12:03
Wooo? 's arguing... this looks like a tame discussion to me. FD is frustrated and understandably so... Nobody likes name calling!

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-04, 14:22
Thanks Mark. I'm not trying to stir up a hornet's nest nor to bring the nastiness that is WB over here. I'm about 99.999% sure that Dixi and Rock would drive the 12 to 15 miles from their house to mine to chase me down with soap and a toothbrush if I did that -- and they would be quite justified in doing so.

However, simply acting like it didn't happen and it wasn't wrong doesn't allow for discussion of what went wrong and how to avoid going there in the future.

I'm also not going to decide if the changes are good or bad until the new mods have a chance to get their 'sea legs'. It isn't easy to suddenly assume this role and it take time to learn what does and does not need to be deleted, and to learn how to deal with the various posters. Give the new mods a few weeks to get this down before getting upset about deletions and such.

I got deleted over there and I was responding to a topic mentioned in the thread by ATTroll :confused: . I'm really not sure why it happened - it seems one of the mods (or maybe he's an admin now?) thought my comments were regarding a topic from another thread that had been closed (a closure I was not aware of when I wrote the post). Everybody is touchy right now and walking on egg shells - admins and mods included - and what is going on right now is not a good indication of how the new policies will work. Give the dust time to settle and then we'll be able to see if it is working or not.

dixicritter
2008-07-04, 16:42
Totally agree with FD on this... as a matter of fact Rock drives by her house on a regular basis... :wink:

Seriously... it is going to take time to work out all the logistics and get everyone on the same page. Let's all just be a little patient and give the admin and mods over on WB time to figure it all out please. In the mean time, let's keep the HQ the way it has always been if y'all don't mind.

Don't make me get out my whackin stick.:secruity:

oops56
2008-07-04, 17:15
gee why bring up a whacking stick brings back memory's.When i was 6 or 7 Mon started to spank me with a yard stick it brook i was laughing she said you just wait mon came back with a nice dry twig now there was tears.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-04, 18:57
Pfftzz... who needs a whacking stick, I have a tail.

oops56
2008-07-04, 19:24
Pfftzz... who needs a whacking stick, I have a tail.

Go a head and do it get in obit to see the fireworks better:beerglass :beerglass

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-04, 19:40
I would never whack Dixi! I wouldn't even whack Rock....

Hmmm, that oops fellow could use a good whacking.

dixicritter
2008-07-05, 10:49
LOL... too funny.

Here's a new one for this site... I'm actually gonna put a thread to bed.


Say goodnight Gracie.......