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View Full Version : Drilling for oil in Alaska to start in the fall



Frolicking Dino
2008-07-17, 21:44
Link to article (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7e8e04ea-5381-11dd-8dd2-000077b07658.html)

US to open 3.9m acres in Alaska for drilling

By Sheila McNulty in Financial Times - Published: July 16 2008 22:57

The US federal government on Wednesday said it would open 3.9m acres of land in a designated petroleum reserve in Alaska for drilling as a means to help curb rising petrol prices.

.....the Bureau of Land Management, an agency within the US Department of the Interior, said the Alaskan land that will now be offered requires no other approvals and will be up for leasing in the autumn.

Lone Wolf
2008-07-17, 22:26
It's about time

GGS
2008-07-18, 02:58
You know, as much as I should be protesting the exploitation of our pristine Alaskan wilderness by the oil barons...

...I am also confessing that unless the price of gas comes down, my ultimate camping trip will be to the urban campsite here in the city which is little more than a dirt parking lot, my hiking and backpacking trip will be walking around the blocks in downdown Lansing, and my best hope of dispersed camping will be in a clump of trees in the median along US-127. I hope they won't ticket my vehicle parked in one of those freeway "Authorized vehicles only" turnarounds!

SGT Rock
2008-07-18, 07:17
As I understand it, this is limited to about 2,000 acers in an area of 19.6 million acers. It will be interesting to see if it has any impact on anything. I imagine it will to some extent.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-18, 07:56
I feel that pouring money into converting ASAP to something renewable and domestically producible makes far more sense than continuing our dependence on oil and endangering our environment to get the oil. What I am saying is instead of underwriting the best interests of oil companies, maybe we should underwrite the best interests of the people for a change - renewable and domestically produced will return the control of our fuel back to the US and provide US jobs on an ongoing and continuous basis.

Second - this oil will not be available for years - it takes about seven years to go from beginning off-shore drilling rigs to actually producing oil. It will likely take about four to five years to build the necessary facilities and to do the drilling in Alaska. This oil isn't going to be seen anytime soon.

Third - The area to be drilled in Alaska is pristine wilderness. Off-shore drilling has spills that cause many species to become extinct in the area where the rigs are located.

Fourth - the weak US dollar means that even if we produce more, it will not lower our prices. Oil is a commodity and it is traded on the open market in the US (we don't have OPEC here) -- it sells to the highest bidder. Developing nations with strong currencies like China and India along with other nations with very strong currencies like the European Union countries and Canada will likely see some small price reduction because of this.

SGT Rock
2008-07-18, 08:42
Interesting points.

One more - lets not go too deep into the politics of the damn thing.

CaSteve
2008-07-18, 21:57
And I'm planning a trip next year to Gates of the Arctic National Park. I understand global warming is affecting the permafrost in the Brooks Range, causing lots of mudslides & such.

So does anyone have comments about T. Boone Pickens plan (http://www.pickensplan.com/)?

SGT Rock
2008-07-19, 06:06
Call me an old soldier, but when you assault a problem you have to take the long view and have more than one COA going...

So yes it will take years got get oil. At least 4 years from now if we have the same issue and someone brings up ANWAR the answer won't be "but it will take 10 years"


Last I heard designing a new energy from the ground up took time too. So you need contingencies if the things we are working don;t turn out to meet the needs. So a viable renewable energy system may take more years than getting some oil from ANWAR.

Getting more oil down the road should not be contingent on what the dollar is doing now - just like you shouldn't pull our all your money from your IRAs when the stocks are down. Deciding not to invest now in the stock market would be wrong because right now you can buy cheap on stuff that will go up. Same thing with oil - right now oil prices are high enough that many places we haven't drilled (including ANWAR, it ain't going to be cheap either) because the cost to extract the oil wasn't worth it because oil was cheaper. Now oil costs a good deal, so whatever we do produce is going to work better for us on the world market. It is like any industry where you have to produce something to create wealth.

Amigi
2008-07-19, 17:59
Oil has peaked. Does anyone realize how many capped wells are in Texas, Louisiana, Arizona, Colorado and Oklahoma? They used to abandon wells with 500k barrels still in the ground. With modern technology like infrared drilling, that oil can now be recovered. If you wanna take a risk with some cash, buy the stock of a company who is gobbling up capped wells.

Nearly Normal
2008-07-21, 15:02
The thing I just don't get is when everyone talks about a 7 year span of waiting before we see any "new" oil.
I would think an oil company that drills for oil would be geared toward the process be it land or sea.
Who comes up with this crap?

Mutinousdoug
2008-07-21, 15:45
The thing I just don't get is when everyone talks about a 7 year span of waiting before we see any "new" oil.
I would think an oil company that drills for oil would be geared toward the process be it land or sea.
Who comes up with this crap?

3-4 years environmental impact study (Thank you: US Congress) + 1-2 year permitting/lease application (Thank you: US Congress) + 1-2 year search/drilling process. Comes pretty close to 7 years before we see any oil.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-21, 21:04
While the new tchnology does take time, we are well along in that process:

Denmark's Hydrogen fueled cars and filling stations (http://www.hydrogenlink.net/eng/news-250208-H2LWestDK.asp)

University of Delaware Bus (http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2007/apr/bus040907.html)

Penn State Bus (http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2007/04/04-09-07tdc/04-09-07dnews-01.asp)

Orlando's shuttle buses (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/05/new_hydrogen_bu.php)

University of Texas Bus (http://www.physorg.com/news113591671.html)

SGT Rock
2008-07-22, 14:25
Even if a new process(es) is/are finally made viable, it will take time for the conversion of the world infrastructure. Gas stations didn't get into place overnight, horses were the primary engine for many places years after the car took off. Same will happen even if hydrogen or whatever becomes the new energy source. You gotta have oil to run the old stuff as it phases out.

I'll also add that even if hydrogen and methane or electric come up to speed and start competing, probably like VHS and BETA or HD-DVD and BlueRay - eventually selecting one of the technologies as primary will probably be wise for streamlining of supply and infrastructure. While the competition is going on, some of us may want to hold on to our old cars (for personal economic reasons) rather than buy straight into one and end up with a $30,000 system that you can't get fuel for 5 years after you bought it.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-22, 16:09
My best guess is that the 'transitional' vehicles will be diesel / biodiesel burning models with electric hybrid engines for exactly the reasons Rock cites - infrastructure. Currently, a diesel engine has to be modified to run on biodiesel, but European researchers are trying to develop an engine that can run on both. If they manage to do that, the conversion will be fairly rapid and easily accomplished. Remember when we converted from leaded to unleaded fuel? Similar to that conversion.

oops56
2008-07-22, 16:58
If i can find the web site there is a engine that runs on compress air.Big tank under the car .

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-22, 17:07
If i can find the web site there is a engine that runs on compress air.Big tank under the car .Wow - wonder if a compressor could be run off a battery that was being recharged as the car rolled down the road? If so, it could fill one tank as the car ran off the other.....

SGT Rock
2008-07-22, 17:23
It can - but then some of the "power" being scavanged is also taken away from the vehicle. We shall see. You also have to figure out how is the compresor for the initial charge or recharge being powered. If you shift from a gas engine to another source to power the 110 outlet or the generator for the compressor you have to create energy somewhere.

oops56
2008-07-22, 18:17
Ok here it is now watch the oil company block it for the us.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4217016.html

Amigi
2008-07-22, 21:17
STOP!

The price of oil is so far increased via speculation, that the "real" price isnt even close to what we are seeing. This is the market people. Bush announes drilling in Alaska and in my home waters, plus the T Boone thing, plus stock rise in companies that are drilling again in Texas and my gas has dropped from 4.09 to 3.91 in four business days.

$3.50 by Christmas, and 3.25 by March 09 is my bet. God, I love Put options.

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-22, 21:49
Ok here it is now watch the oil company block it for the us.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4217016.htmlThe last paragraph in the article:

Of course, the Air Car will likely never hit American shores, especially considering its all-glue construction. But that doesn’t mean the major automakers can write it off as a bizarre Indian experiment — MDI has signed deals to bring its design to 12 more countries, including Germany, Israel and South Africa.

Amigi
2008-07-23, 17:20
Down another 6 cents today. I'm paying 3.87 now from 4.09 in less that two weeks. .21c in total. Put options....

Frolicking Dino
2008-07-23, 20:40
According to this article, an air-powered car will start being sold in the US in 2009 (http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4251491.html?series=19)

The Weasel
2008-07-23, 22:38
You know, as much as I should be protesting the exploitation of our pristine Alaskan wilderness by the oil barons...

...I am also confessing that unless the price of gas comes down, my ultimate camping trip will be to the urban campsite here in the city which is little more than a dirt parking lot, my hiking and backpacking trip will be walking around the blocks in downdown Lansing, and my best hope of dispersed camping will be in a clump of trees in the median along US-127. I hope they won't ticket my vehicle parked in one of those freeway "Authorized vehicles only" turnarounds!


GG-

Actually, you're pretty lucky in Lansing; I know it well. There are some phenomenal hiking areas that are reachable in little more than an hour for you (I'm sure you know the Pinckney area), and there is pretty good bus service to other places where you can almost literally step off the bus and start 'packing. People don't realize how great Michigan is for backpacking. Give it a try. Riding the Dog isn't all that bad.

Rusty

GGS
2008-07-24, 14:08
GG-

Actually, you're pretty lucky in Lansing; I know it well. There are some phenomenal hiking areas that are reachable in little more than an hour for you (I'm sure you know the Pinckney area), and there is pretty good bus service to other places where you can almost literally step off the bus and start 'packing. People don't realize how great Michigan is for backpacking. Give it a try. Riding the Dog isn't all that bad.

Rusty

Yeah, I probably shouldn't complain. About the backpacking opportunities anyway. Gas prices still suck!

My favorite places to hike and camp are along the North Country Trail in the Hiawatha National Forest, which is in the UP. Practically no people so I can let the dogs off leash, I can camp anywhere, and we all have a good time.

With gas to the UP now being about $100 and up per trip I'm taking a closer look at nearby opportunities. I've overlooked a lot of mid-Michigan as the campsites I am familiar with are all modern type campgrounds packed with people. I've made friends with some camping savy people just recently who tell me it ain't so, there are some nice rustic campgrounds that aren't so far away that are not that busy. So I'm taking a closer look.

Thanks for the heads up about the Pickney area. I'll look into it.

I'm also not opposed to taking a bus, but my guess is they probably wouldn't let me bring my labs on board?

Dancer
2008-07-30, 16:36
Our 'oil dependance' goes beyond gas and diesel. Hundreds of others products are made from crude oil. From garbage bags to asphalt and hundreds of items in between. It won't hurt us to be oil independent.

Amigi
2008-10-18, 11:56
STOP!

The price of oil is so far increased via speculation, that the "real" price isnt even close to what we are seeing. This is the market people. Bush announes drilling in Alaska and in my home waters, plus the T Boone thing, plus stock rise in companies that are drilling again in Texas and my gas has dropped from 4.09 to 3.91 in four business days.

$3.50 by Christmas, and 3.25 by March 09 is my bet. God, I love Put options.

Boy was I wrong. Gas is $3.04 now.

JewDuh
2008-10-18, 14:40
Boy was I wrong. Gas is $3.04 now.

Gas is $2.54 at the Shell station around the corner from my place

MalTheElder
2008-10-18, 17:05
I'm holding out for solar power stations in orbit. Float a half-dozen 100,000 sq. ft. solar collector/converters on geosynch orbits, and beam the energy down as large MASER (microwave laser) beams to receiver/distribution stations down-planet. Essentially unlimited (and in fact cheap) electricity. Use it for whatever.

Yes, it can be done. Besides, oil is too important for use as plastics and other material to waste by burning it.

Meanwhile, I'm glad I've got a huge, wooded backyard :biggrin:

Best,
Mal

JewDuh
2008-10-18, 20:43
I'm holding out for solar power stations in orbit.

...

Yes, it can be done. Mal

Isn't that called the Moon? Yet another example of man trying to copy nature, and calling it modern technology (Nothing against your idea of course... It's a good one. I'm just sayin')

Jack
2008-10-19, 01:31
Personally, I'm containing my enthusiasm for price movements in
energy markets until after the election...

:bandit:

Amigi
2008-10-19, 10:14
Gas is $2.54 at the Shell station around the corner from my place

Yeah, but you dont have to pay for the 15% ethanol like I do :).

JAK
2008-10-19, 10:47
The longer you leave the oil in the ground the more money it should be worth.

Mutinousdoug
2008-10-19, 12:45
The longer you leave the oil in the ground the more money it should be worth.

Generally speaking, I agree with you JAK, however, that oil we didn't pump back in July at $145/barrel is now only worth $73/bbl an I don't think we have seen the bottom just yet.
$75/bbl oil is surely going to put a crimp in alternative energy development.

Mrs Baggins
2008-10-24, 16:00
I feel that pouring money into converting ASAP to something renewable and domestically producible makes far more sense than continuing our dependence on oil and endangering our environment to get the oil. What I am saying is instead of underwriting the best interests of oil companies, maybe we should underwrite the best interests of the people for a change - renewable and domestically produced will return the control of our fuel back to the US and provide US jobs on an ongoing and continuous basis.

Second - this oil will not be available for years - it takes about seven years to go from beginning off-shore drilling rigs to actually producing oil. It will likely take about four to five years to build the necessary facilities and to do the drilling in Alaska. This oil isn't going to be seen anytime soon.

Third - The area to be drilled in Alaska is pristine wilderness. Off-shore drilling has spills that cause many species to become extinct in the area where the rigs are located.

Fourth - the weak US dollar means that even if we produce more, it will not lower our prices. Oil is a commodity and it is traded on the open market in the US (we don't have OPEC here) -- it sells to the highest bidder. Developing nations with strong currencies like China and India along with other nations with very strong currencies like the European Union countries and Canada will likely see some small price reduction because of this.

The drilling area is a postage stamp on a 10 x 12 area rug. And as the Pipeline proved, the wildlife thrived after the construction. At the Denver Airport the "animals over people" crowd screamed that the airport would drive off and even kill the eagle population in the area. The eagles not only they thrived, they started nesting closer to the airport. I lived in a neighborhood that was protested before construction because they said it would drive away all of the deer. A couple of thousand of houses later the deer not only didn't leave, they got fat and happy on our landscaping. And the "7 years" is a red herring thrown out by the enviros. It's more like 5 and even if it were 7 or even 9, those years will go by no matter what and if nothing is done we'll have nothing at the end of those years. Airlines, Semi trucks, and freight trains aren't going to run on wind power or solar energy - not in our lifetimes. Oil runs our world for the at least the next century to come and we had better get it while we can.

Grandma
2008-11-01, 10:09
The amount of money that is being handed out in Washington from Detroit and the oil companies will make sure that this process takes as long as possible. I'm sure there are a handful of elected officials that really care about what is going on with the environment, but there is a larger percentage that love the power trip too much to break away from the crowd and do something that could make any impact quickly.

JAK
2008-11-02, 12:11
This is intended to be philosphical, not political. I think its going to be a hard transition, especially as we enter a recession. If people stop buying cars for awhile it doesn't really matter what they are. Might be a good time for industry to retool though. I think in a way a recession is never a welcome prospect, but it might be the only way to transition. Stabilize the banks, enter the recession as gently as possible, then invest in new jobs and new infrastructure that will make us more competitive and energy efficient. We are still going to need lots of fossil fuels to do that. In fact, we need fossil fuels in order to ramp the other stuff up. We need nuclear energy also, as part of it, but it will never be a big piece of the pie unless we reduce the size of the pie. Hardest thing will be getting used to an economy that transitions without growing. I know that's heresy, but I think we are pretty much done with growth, and that changes everything. We are fortunate to have a North American economy as big as it is. Now we just need to make it less wasteful, and more useful.

sheepdog
2008-11-03, 13:03
The amount of money that is being handed out in Washington from Detroit and the oil companies will make sure that this process takes as long as possible. I'm sure there are a handful of elected officials that really care about what is going on with the environment, but there is a larger percentage that love the power trip too much to break away from the crowd and do something that could make any impact quickly.

Take it from me, "Detroit doesn't have any money to give away."

john gault
2008-11-05, 10:15
I say drill, drill, drill - just to stop us from sending money overseas. The only country we should buy oil from is Canada - which is currently our largest supplier. However, being a person that has a great appreciation for science and technology I love reading about all these new alternative energy technologies. They're always confronted with naysayers, but that's the case with most things of change. The horseless carriage was a piece of crap when first introduced, but it's a pretty cool thing nowadays.

I'm still for $10 a gallon gas - Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

Grandma
2008-11-05, 13:09
Take it from me, "Detroit doesn't have any money to give away."

Sure they do. The auto makers report a loss, but that is a GAAP net income loss. That is after taxes, interest, depreciation and amortization. The "real" numbers and the numbers that are reported to the SEC are like comparing apples to oranges.

sheepdog
2008-11-05, 16:33
Sure they do. The auto makers report a loss, but that is a GAAP net income loss. That is after taxes, interest, depreciation and amortization. The "real" numbers and the numbers that are reported to the SEC are like comparing apples to oranges.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler will be lucky to be around next year. No apples, no oranges, no passing go, no collecting $200.

Grandma
2008-11-05, 17:00
Chrysler will be bought by someone, that deal is already in the works. There is no way that Washington will let GM or Ford go away. We saw it with the airlines, and we'll see it happen in this arena as well. Just the way it goes. These companies should probably fail, because of poor leadership. It's all very sad.

taildragger
2008-11-05, 17:07
Chrysler will be bought by someone, that deal is already in the works. There is no way that Washington will let GM or Ford go away. We saw it with the airlines, and we'll see it happen in this arena as well. Just the way it goes. These companies should probably fail, because of poor leadership. It's all very sad.

So, we should let an industry fail here so to teach them a lesson, but in the end we are just funneling off more of our money to other countries.

Hell, everyone claims that Obama is a socialist, if the car companies fail, nationalize them and rebuild them, after a few years of oversight, sell em back to the private sector. Let the government make its money off of a product that is used in the US instead of taxing us.

sheepdog
2008-11-05, 17:14
Chrysler will be bought by someone, that deal is already in the works. There is no way that Washington will let GM or Ford go away. We saw it with the airlines, and we'll see it happen in this arena as well. Just the way it goes. These companies should probably fail, because of poor leadership. It's all very sad.

Maybe poor leadership and unions insisting that people get paid for doing nothing.

Grandma
2008-11-05, 20:02
Maybe poor leadership and unions insisting that people get paid for doing nothing.

Amen to that!

Gaiter
2008-11-07, 02:51
yeah lets drill now, so we can go ahead and use up the resources that we should plan on using over a long time, we can screw up the future and the environment all at once waaahhhoooooooh!


p.s. good to see everyone, spent some time away from wb, and was wondering where some of yall went

Mutinousdoug
2008-11-07, 14:30
yeah lets drill now, so we can go ahead and use up the resources that we should plan on using over a long time, we can screw up the future and the environment all at once waaahhhoooooooh!


p.s. good to see everyone, spent some time away from wb, and was wondering where some of yall went


So...
Is this the kind of thoughtful comment we can expect from the rest of the WB diaspora?:bandit:

Superman
2008-11-07, 19:17
I want to buy one of those cars from India that runs on air. I figure if I strap one of the dispossessed politicians to the engine and focus his hot air into the engine I could drive forever.:biggrin:

Sly
2008-11-10, 14:32
The National Petroleum Refuge- Alaska is huge. No need to drill in ANWR.