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Turk
2008-08-06, 01:42
Hey folks,

Had a bit of an incident on a recent packrafting trip with the wife.
Coyotes tore through my camp at about 1am growling and biting and raising general hell just a few feet from my hammock. 2 coyotes were snarling and snapping at each other as they raised general chaos in my camp scattering gear. I assume my nearby food bags are what attracted them in the first place, an error on my part.

I ended up in a stand-off with my knife drawn and my petzl E-lite on highbeam trying to scare them away. I am sure I looked quite silly, but in truth I was a little frightened that despite my best efforts the coyotes only backed off about 100ft or so from my camp and hid out in tall grass and rushes along a wide marshland.

I've really never had any sort of similar situation. But what I learned from this incident is that my ultralight tendancies in terms of after dark lighting leaves something to be desired.

What I am looking for is a small but high-powered tactical light that could be used to light up an area at long range, or possible be used as an animal deterrant at night.

I am looking for as small a light as I can get, with highest output.

I have been looking at some surefires in around the 120 lumens range.
I would prefer to avoid cr123 batteries, but with take that option if nothing else is comparable in size and output.

Cost is not really an object.. but I would like to try and stay below 300$ if possible.

I have found an interesting knockoff model on ebay called the superfire that claims a 390 lumens output, and looks exactly like the surefire e2e defender.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/390Lumens-502-Combat-Tactic-Light-SuperFire-Cp-Surefire_W0QQitemZ370075169864QQihZ024QQcategoryZ1 06987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone have any suggestions or recommendations.

Weight, maximum output are my primary concerns. I want searing, painful, nightvision wrecking output. I am willing to make some sacrifices in physical size and battery type to achieve this.


Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Nearly Normal
2008-08-06, 02:56
Just shoot a couple of them. They understanding being shot and shot at.

SGT Rock
2008-08-06, 03:23
I cannot find a link on the net to show you, but I got a Coleman Max 115 lumens flashlight from WalMart for work. It runs off 2 AAs (they also make a 3 AAA and a 2 CR123 version) for about $24 USD. When I remember where I put it, I'll post a pic. The closest thing I could find on the net was this image:

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk217/misterbean412/05-24-08_1634.jpg

SGT Rock
2008-08-06, 03:33
Also - this throws off about as much as the Surefire 6P tactical light I have on my rifle but with a longer run time and lower cost. The only draw back as I see it is you cannot focus the beam out or in on the Coleman - it is set and cannot be changed. That said, it works perfect for me.

As for the Coyotes. I reccomend an SU-16B.

Frolicking Dino
2008-08-06, 05:51
::: Dino who knows nothing about tactical lighting gives big hug to Mr. & Mrs. Turk and thanks God they are safe :::

Wise Old Owl
2008-08-06, 10:25
Why a light? what happened to Rocks?

RITBlake
2008-08-06, 11:43
Throw a couple of glow sticks out at them, it scares them off.

If that fails, pound a red bull, and run, blitzkrieg style, in to the woods.

MRH
2008-08-06, 12:17
Turk, I prefer to take a pistol after I had a few problems like that as well, But if you don't want a weapon, May I suggest getting a small air-horn like they use at football games... They normally have them around the boating section in stores. They are very loud.

GGS
2008-08-06, 12:29
Turk, your post and the other thread on slingshots got me thinking...

In addition to a bright light, perhaps another good tool would be to carry a wristrocket and a handful of marbles?

A solid hit to the flank would help convince a bold varmint that hanging around a yelling human is not a good idea.

Pebbles could be used in place of marbles albeit at reduced accuracy.

SGT Rock
2008-08-06, 13:28
I just weighed mine. It is 141 grams with AA alkaline batteries. The LED is supposedly a voltage regulated system with a Cree 120 lum LED - so you should be able to use Lithium batteries and cut down on the weight.

incognito
2008-08-06, 18:08
How about an S.O.S. Strobe Lite or a couple of stubby S.O.S. flares. Magnesium flares.

incognito
2008-08-06, 18:50
Search no more, here it is and still in your price range:elefant:

http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Wicked_Lights-74-0.html

CaSteve
2008-08-06, 23:21
Just shoot a couple of them. They understanding being shot and shot at.

It's the only thing they understand. And you will sleep better afterwards.

pure_mahem
2008-08-07, 04:41
My 2 AA mini Maglite works pretty well and is pretty bright with fresh batteries in it! Not to bad in price or weight either. If light and weapon in one are what your looking for try a 6 D Cell Maglite. It makes a nice club!! I will warn you thought the impact of using it for a club may burst your batteries and weld the end shut, been there done that! I do find that the mini maglite I have is pretty detering seeing how it would be being held next to my 9mm in a circumstance such as this, LOL!

Kanga
2008-08-07, 07:43
take a dog whistle. they weigh like an ounce

proc
2008-08-07, 18:44
I don't think you can get the Keltek Su-16B in Canada.

I have carried a short-barreled (14") Remington 870, with a junior stock. It works well on the Yotes and Yogi, although it does weigh a bit much.

Turk
2008-08-07, 19:00
Thanks for all the advice out there.

Unfortunately carrying a handgun here is very heavily restricted and simply not an option for me, unless I want to make a pretty drastic career change :P I am very seriously considering carrying an ultralight rifle however. Its about time I got on board with a more reliable defense means for certain areas I frequent.
An air-horn while probably effective, concerns me that it might be mistaken for boaters or paddlers in distress. As I most often do kayak or now packraft trips, I don't want to end up paying the hefty fines if search and rescue show up. I also have been doing a fair bit of stealth hangs where announcing my presence is not advisable.

I think I want a good strong light with the ability to focus the beam for long range. Just being able to keep tabs on the wildlife and know where something is, before its right up on me would be good. And anything powerful enough (100+ lumens) I would think should ruin an animals adapted night vision enough to keep them from getting too curious about my camp.

Thats a nice find Rock, thanks for the pic and info. its going on my short list of lights. I have always thought that surefires prices were completely insane, but I also didn't know of any lights out there that could come close to output for weight/size and have the nice features like adjustable beams and tail switches.

CaSteve
2008-08-08, 01:25
Its about time I got on board with a more reliable defense means for certain areas I frequent.
...
I also have been doing a fair bit of stealth hangs where announcing my presence is not advisable.


Dude, where are you camping?

I've been considering a Henry Survival Rifle (.22). Not sure of it's effectiveness on coyotes. I've always used a .223 on them.

Gruntacious
2008-08-08, 03:45
it's funny that you mention lighting. i just got back from a camping trip where a friend of mine brought a headlamp that had 6 LED lights, which seemed to be very focused and ran on 3 AAA batteries. it was bright compared to my headlamp,which had only 3. my other friend had a weaker headlamp which had 1 lightbulb.

needless to say, my 6'4" friend with the 6 LED lights quickly got the name "Lighthouse".

SGT Rock
2008-08-08, 05:35
This is the rifle you need: http://www.equipped.com/Kel-Tec_SU-16_Review.htm

Turk
2008-08-08, 19:07
This is the rifle you need: http://www.equipped.com/Kel-Tec_SU-16_Review.htm

Thanks for the link Rock. I will certainly keep that in mind. As a complete and utter gun novice, I am in way over my head, the gun club I am doing my certification at is far more 'traditionally minded' and not really familiar with "ultralight".

I was looking at some stuff from Extreme rifle works
http://extremerifleworks.com/Custom.html


Dude, where are you camping?

I've been considering a Henry Survival Rifle (.22). Not sure of it's effectiveness on coyotes. I've always used a .223 on them.

Ya that would be sweet too.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj127/ExtremeRifleWorks/29.jpg

They have some pretty tricked out tooling with very impressive listed weights for firepower.

I am looking for something to extend my ventures further into polar bear country. I don't plan to get hassled by the law anymore for not carrying. Of course I am going to have to find some balance between adequate firepower for weight. Perhaps something right stripped in .308 ... or perhaps that is a bit too optimistic pipe dream.
I want something as light as humanly possible, which drives $ way up, but I also want something I can take to the range on a somewhat regular basis and not spend a fortune learning to shoot on either. All the while ensuring enough stopping power in my selection, that it should be effective, heaven forbid I might ever need it against polar bear.
They have lots of photos and plenty of experience with grizz. Should be able to obtain sound advice.

Of course for around home, a good tac-light should be more than enough ;)

JAK
2008-08-08, 20:03
Interesting thread.

How big are coyote's up where you are Turk? Any Eastern Wolf or domestic dog in them?

Anyhow, the immediate need seems to be light, so you can see, but also something that might get them all to scare off enough for you to get up and about and regain the initiative. I'm thinking maybe some sort of instant flare, if you had a central firepit you could toss it into. If the fire was already going dumping on some birch bark or dry kindling would be enough. If you needed time to make the big fire happen then a big stick or hatchet or airhorn or certainly a gun would work, but then your back to needing big light maybe, but I think some sort of flare or instant fire is really what you want because that is handy for other things like hypothermia and stuff. Anyhow, whatever you do, if they didn't bugger off immediately I think a big fire would finish the job, and you would be up for awhile after that anyway so you may as well make coffee so maybe start there also if you can have it all ready to go.

So perhaps a combination of firepit, pile of kinding, and some sort of light weight instant firebomb.
That and a big stick.

rbd
2008-08-09, 00:24
OK - I live in dog & bear country but haven't had any problems yet.... so this is just a question..... How about pepper spray? Silent, legal, weight under a pound, good for bears and people too, wife and kids can also carry a can. Range most likely under 10 yards. Anybody had any real experience using pepper spray on dogs? Our mailman carries two small units (obviously NOT for bears).

CaSteve
2008-08-09, 02:07
I am looking for something to extend my ventures further into polar bear country. I don't plan to get hassled by the law anymore for not carrying. Of course I am going to have to find some balance between adequate firepower for weight. Perhaps something right stripped in .308 ... or perhaps that is a bit too optimistic pipe dream.
I want something as light as humanly possible, which drives $ way up, but I also want something I can take to the range on a somewhat regular basis and not spend a fortune learning to shoot on either. All the while ensuring enough stopping power in my selection, that it should be effective, heaven forbid I might ever need it against polar bear.
They have lots of photos and plenty of experience with grizz. Should be able to obtain sound advice.

Of course for around home, a good tac-light should be more than enough ;)

Turk,

I'm planning a trip to the Alaskan Arctic next year. In preparation for the trip I recently aquired a Marlin 1895 Guide (http://http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895GS.asp) gun in stainless. Combined with these 45-70 cartridges (http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp), it's a very effective bear gun. I hear 12 guage shotgun slugs work too, but I prefered the 45-70 round.

CaSteve
2008-08-09, 02:13
This is the rifle you need: http://www.equipped.com/Kel-Tec_SU-16_Review.htm

That's an excellent choice. You think anyone would be upset the next time I'm camping in backpack campground & cut loose on the raiding racoons?

pure_mahem
2008-08-09, 02:40
I'm just thinking because you said cheap. I would go with a shotgun either a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500. They sell at walmart for under $270. Or you could go with a Maverick by Mossberg for about $160. Remington has a lot of after market options you could do to it over time. but you have versatility of loading it with flares, birdshot, buck shot, and slugs. Birdshot is a pretty good deterent for coyotes and will even put them down if you get a good shot in and don't have a lot of recoil. While if your talking Polar bears I think I would go with 00 Buck and slugs alternating them when I load them. Or even some magnum loaded slugs. I think if you shoot a polar bear with that it's going to put it down. A 12 gauge slug is larger than a 50 caliber round and it leaves the hole to show it! In my experience with a Remington 870 It's a gun you can't screw up. Even if you drop it in the mud your going to be able to rack it and fire it. I have one that's ridden under the front seat of my truck for five years and it shows it but it still works like the day I bought it despite the wear. Every couple of years I gotta take it out and clean it good to remove the rust from the abusive ride it gets but I wouldn't trade it for anything else. I've bounced for 10 years and every night before work I load that thing and shove it back under the seat and unload it before I go home. I've only had to use it once to make enough noise to get rednecks to break up there little riot and go home and hope I never have to use it in any other way but I'm glad to know it's there and I can count on it. Guess I better go clean up good again it's about time! Good luck with your search Turk I hope you find your torch and your gun!

I've heard about that law in Alaska where you are suppose to carry a gun in polar bear country. Isn't it a little contradictory since they made them an endangered species, LOL!

sailingsoul
2008-08-09, 10:22
Search no more, here it is and still in your price range:elefant:

http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Wicked_Lights-74-0.html
Some my love this, it is impressive. However not what I would carry to fill the needs of Bright light and fire making, when hiking/camping. It's ability to make light AND fire comes from energy supplied by the batteries. Waterproof matches to name one, weigh much less than batteries for making fire and this ability comes from being a very inefficient bright light. Resulting shorter battery life. On the trail better have extra batteries with this bad boy. The "fun" having this on the trail carries a weight tax. SS :captain:

incognito
2008-08-09, 14:58
Some my love this, it is impressive. However not what I would carry to fill the needs of Bright light and fire making, when hiking/camping. It's ability to make light AND fire comes from energy supplied by the batteries. Waterproof matches to name one, weigh much less than batteries for making fire and this ability comes from being a very inefficient bright light. Resulting shorter battery life. On the trail better have extra batteries with this bad boy. The "fun" having this on the trail carries a weight tax. SS :captain:


I don't think turk needs any off this stuff. He is more likely to get hit by lighning than to have an encounter of the same kind. Just upgrade to the higher output, inexpensive LED's. Turk set his $ limit at 300 for a flashlight. Now he has the full gamut of stuff to chose from.

CaSteve
2008-08-09, 17:07
Some my love this, it is impressive. However not what I would carry to fill the needs of Bright light and fire making, when hiking/camping. It's ability to make light AND fire comes from energy supplied by the batteries. Waterproof matches to name one, weigh much less than batteries for making fire and this ability comes from being a very inefficient bright light. Resulting shorter battery life. On the trail better have extra batteries with this bad boy. The "fun" having this on the trail carries a weight tax. SS :captain:

I have an aversion to anything that requires batteries. I don't think the light is going to scare the coyotes away either. Based on my own experience, they will just lurk in the weeds just out of range of your light, until you go to sleep. The coyotes around my farm are very persistent.

MRH
2008-08-09, 17:38
I've heard many coyotes screaming and howling until they got close to camp. Then u hear them sniff around alittle and leave soon after... They just don't like that human smell to well. Never had to shoot one yet, But never had them come in and tear my camp up either. I use a Petzl Tikka Plus as my primary light and I was in Walmart yesterday and seen the Coleman Max 115 lumens flashlight Sgt Rock was showing earlier, so I bought the one that has 3 AAA. WOW! it puts out a very nice bright spotlight... will be part of my gear... just so I can see a longer distance if needed. I needed a backup light anyway.

SGT Rock
2008-08-10, 06:01
That light is a sweet deal for the money ain't it.

Jarhead
2008-08-10, 16:53
I Like that light as well, I may add it to my gear. I like the idea of using a fire(with safety a priority of course) perhaps to help deter the coyotes. I've personally seen pepper spray work extremely well on aggressive dogs several times also. I have the kind you can get at most auto or hardware stores about $8-12 USD.
I've seen a ton of coyotes outdoors and a few yipping about close by, usually some noise gets them moving off in my experience. No real close encounters though, keep some pepper spray nearby hopefully you won't need it but it could come in handy.

good luck,

GGS
2008-08-11, 22:47
OK - I live in dog & bear country but haven't had any problems yet.... so this is just a question..... How about pepper spray? Silent, legal, weight under a pound, good for bears and people too, wife and kids can also carry a can. Range most likely under 10 yards. Anybody had any real experience using pepper spray on dogs? Our mailman carries two small units (obviously NOT for bears).

Not a bad idea. A short range device but a punishing one if varmints come in range. Bears, coyote, racoons, skunks... Give 'em all a nasty enough experience that they will not want to return.

Hmmm... I wonder who shoots further, human with pepper spray or skunk? :eek:

Tin Man
2008-08-11, 23:16
http://lh5.ggpht.com/TinManCT/SKDvS01pfRI/AAAAAAAAASQ/fdYUTBUFAPo/image_16_iraqi_photos.jpg

MRH
2008-08-12, 00:34
That light is a sweet deal for the money ain't it.

I was impressed how bright and how far the lights output is. Glad I invested in it... :beer:

SGT Rock
2008-08-12, 00:51
Another thing to think of trying is getting something like the Kel-Tec PF-9. I't a very light single stack 9mm that has a rail on the front. At close range you could shoot one and use a small tactical light on a picatinny mount.

proc
2008-08-12, 14:29
Sadly, for Canadians - carrying a handgun simply isn't an [legal] option. The Canadian gun-control bureaucracy doesn't recognize self-defense as a valid reason to issue an ATC permit. The only people who are able to carry handguns for self-defense are those who would do so in the normal course of their employment - game wardens, law enforcement.

Geologists, trappers and miners may apply for an ATC, if that is their primary job, but there is no guarantee that the permit will be approved. If it is approved, there are usually restrictions applied - no semi-autos. Usually it is a large-calibre revolver like a .44 magnum, or 454 Casull.

The final strike against the Kel-Tec PF-9, is that because of the short barrel length, it would be prohibited in Canada. [Any barrel less than 105mm is considered a prohibited item in Canada].

MRH
2008-08-12, 14:35
Currently I carry a springfield XD45ACP 4". it weights 30oz empty. The reason I went with a .45 is a friend reloads .45 so I get them free... I do reload rifle loads at his shop. I have thought about finding something with less weight. I see the Kel-Tec pf-9 is 14.6oz empty. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... Thanks for info.

dgrav
2008-08-13, 19:19
I just saw this hack that converts a $4 light into something similar to the Torch.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/581888/10_police_flashlight_hack/

If I can find the light I will give it a shot and report back.

SGT Rock
2008-08-14, 03:17
I just got my PF9, maybe I need a wicked gun light for coyotes on the trail:secruity:

Wise Old Owl
2008-08-16, 22:36
I got you all beat ..... To answer this question with a question
Do you feel lucky? You will need a 1K in cash...+


http://www.peakbeam.com/tacticaloperations.html

Oh if you visit this webpage they will look at what you are looking at... It tracks you. woo you are .. FYI

This is very serious tactical lights for weapons. The beams are engineered for over a mile both visable and invisable.

FireFighter56
2008-08-16, 22:40
and this is why i carry a 9MM with me....at all times......and they call me crazy

Ice Age
2008-08-22, 12:32
Since you're in Canada and can't carry a pistol, how about some firecrackers? Can you get those?

I'd be worried about a flare starting a fire, but a pack of firecrackers might chase them off. Even better, use bottle rockets and shoot 'em in the ass!

oops56
2008-08-22, 12:41
Since you're in Canada and can't carry a pistol, how about some firecrackers? Can you get those?

I'd be worried about a flare starting a fire, but a pack of firecrackers might chase them off. Even better, use bottle rockets and shoot 'em in the ass!

Get a boat air horn.

sofaking
2008-09-16, 15:12
'brigade quartermaster's' has a kick ass catalog, everything from high-end to discount gear. sign up for subscription, it's free.

JewDuh
2008-09-16, 21:34
I Love my Fenix light, and I got it for the exact kind of things you are talking about (Though I have not had a chance to test it on coyotes). Fenix makes tactical lights that compete with surefire, but at about half the price. They also make lights that don't take CR-123s. Check out their site http://www.fenixlight.com.

I carry a P3D in CR-123 but they make the same light in AA (It has about 15% less output) and they have a lot of other great options. All of their lights are LED, and they are professional grade (You will get what you pay for) They are a little more expensive than the Coleman light (Their most expensive is a about double, but it has double the out put) My p3d doesn't have an ajustable beam, but it has 4 diffenent levels of output which accomplishes the same thing. They have really good battery life on the lower settings, and if you make an elastic headband it can replace your head lamp (I have tested that. It works great) CHECK IT OUT

mclmm
2008-09-16, 23:25
I've got a surefire 6P Defender...
http://flashlightnews.org/images/Surefire_6P_Defender_med.jpg

It's definitely bright enough as a tac light and the "bezel" (the thingy on the front) has some nasty serrations that are designed to make any two or four legged threat think twice when they cop one in the face.

Before I bought the Surefire, I had a chinese copy which was pretty much the same in brightness and design - including the nasty bit on the front. This might be a good idea for those on a budget if you can find one.

JewDuh
2008-09-17, 02:17
I've got a surefire 6P Defender...

It's definitely bright enough as a tac light and the "bezel" (the thingy on the front) has some nasty serrations that are designed to make any two or four legged threat think twice when they cop one in the face.

Before I bought the Surefire, I had a chinese copy which was pretty much the same in brightness and design - including the nasty bit on the front. This might be a good idea for those on a budget if you can find one.


MCLMM is that one of the LED Sure fires? LED lights get really bright now-a-days (Over 200 lumens) so there is no reason to be carrying a xenon bulb. LEDs last 4 ever use batteries much more efficiently, and produce a better quality of light. I do like SureFire's lights. They are proven in the worst of conditions, and they have litterally saved the lives of some of my friends and family and if I were a cop I would carry one, but I'm not. I do need a professional quality flashlight, and that is why I carry a Fenix, Which is lighter than a AA Mini-Maglite, and hands down better and brighter. I do wish I had those fun serations on the front of my light. They could be usefull for another reason. If you set your light down on a flat surface you can see that it is still on, but I would have had to carry a bulkier light for that, and I just couldn't justify it.

Also, To All, If you are trying to convert all of your gear to one kind of battery you may not want to rule out the CR-123. I almost always carry 3 pieces of gear that take batteries my SteriPEN, Flashlight (/Headlamp), and a Digital Camera. As soon as I upgrade to a CR-123 camera all 3 will run on CR-123 batteries. I do have a GPS that I take sometimes that is AA, but I'll cross the bridge of converting it some other time. It's really heavy, and I can read a Topo Map pretty darn well

mclmm
2008-09-17, 04:40
Yep, mine runs a single LED. I have several 9-LED flashlights as well as a surefire helmet light, Tactikka headlamp and the Chinese surefire clone and it beats all of them for illumination range & intensity - although the Chinese one is pretty damned good too and comes a very reasonable second (at about an estimated 80% illumination of the surefire - it also eats AAAs).