PDA

View Full Version : Hennessy Knot



Yedi
2003-02-03, 02:08
For hammockers that have trouble with knots, here's a site with a step by step guide to tying the Hennessy knot. They've also got videos up to show you how.

Knot Link (http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/hiking/sections/gear/shelter/hknot.htm)

SGT Rock
2003-02-03, 07:41
Cool, thanks.

GrizzlyBear
2003-02-03, 16:21
When I first got my Explorer Deluxe A-Sym, I decided to go-with-the-flow, and use the Hennessy, figure-eight thingy, as I attempted to hang my hammock, and get it pretty-well centered between the hooks. After untying, and re-tying the thing a few times, and ending up with one end a little bit longer, then the other, then the other - all this being accompanied with a fair amount of Marine Corps blessings on the cumbersome cinches, I resorted to something I find much simpler - and supremely secure. Us old guys have always resorted to a knot even older than we are, called the bowline (pronounced "bo-lin" for any youngsters with little or no knowledge of seafaring ways), whenever we wanted something to stay where we put it, but also wanted to be able to untie it quickly, when the need arose. A bowline is a supremely simple knot, that with a little practice, one can tie in about 1/10th the time it takes to wind all those figure-eight knots on a line, and with a little more practice, the bowline can be teased up or down the main line - to make length adjustments - without untying the knot. For those of you who may have been in the Boy Scouts, you may remember the bowline as the one where "the rabbit comes out of the hole, runs 'round the tree, and dives back into the hole".

I've used the knot ever since I got frustrated with that figure-eight thing. My 230# has been hanging from bowlines for nearly a month,now, and I fear not about being dropped to the floor or ground. When you first look at the knot, you'll say, "no way will this simple little thing hold me up". Trust me. The heavier you load the bowline, the harder it grabs!, and in the mornin' all you need do, is yank the tag-end back toward the tree, and in a few seconds, your 'mock is being stuffed in your pack. Try it - I think you'll like it. I wrote and told Tom, but haven't had a comment, back.

Trek on...

Grizzly Bear

SGT Rock
2003-02-03, 16:30
Here is a pic: http://www.wavewalkercharters.com/knots/showcase.cfm/knot.11.htm

GrizzlyBear
2003-02-03, 16:40
Very good! The one thing you must remember, is which way to twist your "rabbit-hole", before bringing the tag-end up through it. The great thing is, that if you've made the loop bass-akwards, a simple tug on the main line, and the knot will - literally - fall apart. There's no danger of "thinking you have it right" only to be dumped on the ground, in the middle of the night. If you tug on the main, and it stays - it'll be there in the morning, even if you've taken a bear to bed with you. Your 'mock might not, but the knot will.

Yedi
2003-02-03, 18:01
Haha,
Scouts is where I learned to tie the bowline. You're exactly right, every time I tie a bowline I have to recite the ditty about the rabbit.

SGT Rock
2003-02-03, 18:33
Got it right the first few times, then after a few hours without practicing I got it all wrong LOL. Gotta practice it before I get on the trail to try it.

GrizzlyBear
2003-02-03, 19:15
The biggest problem with the bowline, is making the "rabbit hole" in the right direction.

Try this:

Lat's assume you've got your hammock rope through the loops in your hugger-straps:

1. Look at the back of your free hand - your index finger and thumb are on the bottom (doesn't matter whether you're right handed or a lefty.
2. Pinch the main rope (between the hammock and the tree)with your thumb and index finger, and role your hand 180 degrees, so that you are now looking at your palm. (That would be an over-motion. If you've rolled it the other way, you should be experiencing great pain in the wrist and forearm.)
3. Take the working-end (the one through the hugger-loops) which is the "rabbit" push it "UP" through the neat little "hole" you just formed in the main-rope, and go around the main-rope counter-clockwise (That will be clockwise for you south-paws), stuff the "rabbit" (tag-end) "down" through the "hole" and pull it snug against the newly formed knot.
4. Pull hard on the main rope, and you're secure.

This is the knot to use, with a large loop, to throw to a man overboard. It won't come apart, and won't slip tight, strangling the poor beggar you're trying to save from drowning. It would also work well on your bear-bag. A bear could hang from your bag all night, without the knot coming undone.

Good luck.

rnunnink
2003-02-03, 21:21
I've always had trouble tying the knot too. My problem was getting everything tight enough. I've been using a truckers hitch http://www.landbigfish.com/modules/knots/showcase.cfm/knot.14.htm It is easy to tie tight and simply to untie. What do you guys think?

DebW
2003-02-03, 21:46
This is what I use to tie boats on top of my car. If my canoe doesn't fly off my car at 60 mph, it's a good knot. But I use a butterfly knot to make the loop rather than the slipknot. This knot is great because you can really tension it before tying it off. Don't know how you'd tie a bowline on the hammock and get signficant tension.

SGT Rock
2003-02-03, 21:56
Recently I have been using a tautline hitch: http://www.landbigfish.com/modules/knots/showcase.cfm/knot.16.htm

Tree Swinger
2003-02-03, 21:58
In Scouts we always used the Bowline with the added slip knot. It unties with a tug. Just don't use it when camping with pranksters, one tup and you're on the ground.

http://www.treehanger.com/bowline.html

Colonel Corn
2003-02-04, 01:34
Old sailors use a knot called a "double becket hitch" when they tie a rope to an eye splice or loop (in this case the tree huggers). It's called a becket hitch cause it was used to tie a line to the becket of a harpoon by whalers. It's like a sheet bend but it's got an extra turn and will never let go until you untie it (which it will still do easily).

Pull the loose end up between the tree hugger and the tree, then pinch a loop in the hugger and go around this loop twice going underneath the line you brought up from behind the tree. Pull it tight and put a load on it.

Don't know of a website with an illustration of this but if anyone else does, it makes it a lot easier to tie if you can see it. But once you've got it you won't forget (like the sheet bend --- now which way did the rabbit go?) and you can do it in about 10 seconds in the dark.

Jim

GrizzlyBear
2003-02-04, 08:26
You guys are voracious feeders! I like that!

I just found a great animated website for knot tying. It includes the Beckett's Bend and gobs (pun intended - only for any old Navy men on board) of others. I forgot about the Beckett's, Col. Being a fly fishermen, playing mostly with mono-filiment line of minute diameters, my brain's knot-locker has been tainted with strange little knots, which have made me forget the ones I learned as a Scout back in the Paleolithic Era.

http://131.230.57.1/knots.htm (You'll have to copy-and-paste - I haven't figured out how post URLs, pics, and such)

GrizzlyBear
2003-02-04, 08:32
You might also be interested in the chart regarding the relationship of "knot-type"-to-"reduction of line-strength".

http://131.230.57.1/knots/knot_str.htm

Colonel Corn
2003-02-04, 13:19
That's an interesting chart. I was always taught that the double-becket was stronger than a bowline but the chart says otherwise. It also says that two bowlines (effectively a double bowline) is weaker than a single bowline but that a double becket is no weaker than a becket. That seems counter-intuitive. Now I've got the urge to hook up some test equipment and start testing this for myself...(as if I didn't already have enough things to keep me busy ;))

Colonel Corn
2003-02-04, 13:34
Forgot...the becket that's on the site Grizzly found is a single becket on a bight with a quick release. To tie a double becket use the working end instead of a bight to and make an extra turn around and under. The knot unties very easily already so the quick-release is overkill (although useful when you want to release a tow rope when you're underway).

cldphoto
2003-03-21, 14:04
When I put up my cheapy net hammock back in the day, I would use two half hitches, one with a quick release -- that's it. I'm not sure how well that would do with tree huggers, so I follow the Hennessy-recommended knot, as seen on TV (well, not really) at http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/hiking/sections/gear/shelter/hknot.htm. I saved the video on my laptop and took it with me for my first run, but once I was out there I realized how much overkill it was -- it's a pretty easy knot once you get a rope in your hand.

Colonel Corn
2003-03-21, 18:31
I've seen folks use tautline hitches too. I've also seen an occasional jokester pull the quick release on a couple of tree-hangers :p

The Hennessey Knot really is pretty easy (technically it's a "lashing") and both easy to untie as well as pretty fool proof from a jokester perspective. By the time they've unwound one you've no doubt woken up and whacked them on the head with a rock.

I thought the Prusik knot that Hennessey uses to hold the canopy to the line really cool though. I'd not seen one before & I think it's just a great idea.

Jim

Redbeard
2003-03-22, 13:08
I use a tautline on the tarp lines, that way you can readjust without untieing the knot.

GrizzlyBear
2003-03-22, 14:44
Has anyone ever had the courage to try a tautline-hitch to actually hang a hammock?

CanoeCamper
2005-07-13, 13:39
Has anyone ever had the courage to try a tautline-hitch to actually hang a hammock?
I recently hung my hammock with a taut-line (right against the tree-huggers) on one end and a trucker's hitch on the other end to adjust the tensioning. It worked extremely well, was secure and easy to untie in the morning. BTW I finished off the trucker's hitch with a slipped double half hitch and also finished the taut-line with a slip to ensure it would all come apart easily.
This, however, is NOT prankster-proof!

Verlager
2005-07-29, 02:36
My Clarke Jungle Hammock (CJH) finally crapped out last night, the bug netting is real flimsy lightweight stuff, and not very durable. Company would want $100 for repair costs, so I am now trying the Speer Hammock. I'll just use the CJH in winter when the weathershield will reduce the temp inside by 10-20 degrees.

As I set this Speer Hammock up I saw that it had two main anchor webbing straps of ~10' length. "Hmmmm.. guess I wrap this around the trees, and tie it." But I realized that the webbing would be difficult to untie in the morning. And I realized that I already have a tree-wrap system. So I used an old climbing trick to make an etrier out of the webbing so that I would have multiple length attachment points. I hook everything up with carabiners.

Method: just double the webbing strap back on itself right below the black plastic D-ring. Tie an overhand knot. Tie another overhand knot about 4" down the working end, but flare one side of the work before tying. Repeat until you run out of webbing.

The resulting knotted webbing is <50% of the length of the original, but you have a choice of where to attach the carabiner, makes resizing and readjusting a snap. It doesn't matter if the knots cinch up, they won't be untied anyway.

I have uploaded some pics of this but I can't get the message editor to let me post a link to them. How is this done, BTW? Is it like "upload the files to be attached and then click insert image?" Beats me.

Lanthar
2005-07-29, 12:31
Verlager,
When you get some time, could you post a pic of your setup with caribiners and all hung up? (or at least 'simulate' on end). That's a great technique for making attachment points, but for the life of me, I can't put that pic of webbing strap into context with the 'tree wrap system' you said you had and the hammock

Verlager
2005-08-04, 21:52
Wish I could, but a close inspection of the support tree reveals that the tree is dead and must be cut down and that two new supports must be installed. I plan to use a post hole digger to make two ~36" holes, throw in some quikcrete and water, and then some 10' PVC pipes, which I will then also fill with quikcrete. I haven't decided on the PVC pipe diameter: Lowe's has 10' lengths of 3", 4", 5", and maybe 6" diameter available, despite what the online catalog says. I also have to paint the PVC pipe green.

After I get this task done, I'm optimistic about reviewing the mosquito hammock (http://mosquitohammock.com) from Tom Claytor. I will take photos then. Have a good weekend, Lanthar!

Anyone have a suggestion on the PVC pipe diameter? I will have 6.5' (6'6") of pipe sticking out of the ground. And, of course, it will be filled with concrete for rigidity and strength.

Verlager
2005-08-04, 22:20
Haha,
Scouts is where I learned to tie the bowline. You're exactly right, every time I tie a bowline I have to recite the ditty about the rabbit. Tying a bowline in 5 secs. with one hand as ship rigger Brion Toss observed Paul Newman do in a lumberjack movie takes timing and hand coordination. The hand articulation needed looks likes some weird Kung Fu move.

This is one of those mysterious methods that everyone talks about and wants to know. Learning it required some thought and appreciation of the rope's heft and "hand", it's overall feel based on its weight, construction, and texture. This is because it's tied with only one hand, by pulling a bight through a loop, etc., ballistically, using inertia. The whole shebang has to be done smoothly and with no hesitation. That makes it an advanced method and mastering it, of course, takes practice!

It's described on Pgs. 62-63 in The Complete Rigger's Apprentice: Tools and Techniques for Modern and Traditional Rigging by Brion Toss

CanoeCamper
2005-08-05, 00:52
Verlager,
You may want to reconsider the PVC, your tree-huggers are likely to slide down the slippery surface :confused: . I would suggest you mount some eye-bolts in them prior to filling them with concrete, or (even easier) use 4x4 posts instead.

Verlager
2005-08-05, 01:45
Verlager,
You may want to reconsider the PVC, your tree-huggers are likely to slide down the slippery surface :confused: . I would suggest you mount some eye-bolts in them prior to filling them with concrete, or (even easier) use 4x4 posts instead.That's what I'll do, just before filling the PVC tubes with concrete: drill holes and place eye-bolts in them. The PVC is rather slick.

And I have used 4x4 pressure treated lumber which warped. I used 8' pieces and I don't have enough sag in the hammocks, so this time I will: A. mount the uprights 13' feet apart rather than 15' apart, and B. have 6'6" of column above the ground rather than 5'5". I'm going to paint the PVC pipes OD before setting it up. And I'll cap the ends to keep them waterproof.

I'm leaning toward selecting the 4" diameter stock.

BTW, you ever notice how hammockers suggest adding more wraps if the webbing around the tree doesn't hold? But adding more wraps just distributes the load over more webbing area and that has LESS chance of holding. Go figure!

CanoeCamper
2005-08-05, 01:51
Good to know about the warping. Thanks for the feedback. I need a good backyard set-up myself.

Verlager
2005-08-05, 03:10
Good to know about the warping. Thanks for the feedback. I need a good backyard set-up myself.How about a 6" x 6" x 12' ? They are about $33+tax at Lowe's. They probably won't warp, but they must weigh 300 lbs. each, but I'm just guessing....

Lanthar
2005-08-05, 09:46
Tying a bowline in 5 secs. with one hand as ship rigger Brion Toss observed Paul Newman do in a lumberjack movie takes timing and hand coordination. The hand articulation needed looks likes some weird Kung Fu move.

This is one of those mysterious methods that everyone talks about and wants to know. Learning it required some thought and appreciation of the rope's heft and "hand", it's overall feel based on its weight, construction, and texture. This is because it's tied with only one hand, by pulling a bight through a loop, etc., ballistically, using inertia. The whole shebang has to be done smoothly and with no hesitation. That makes it an advanced method and mastering it, of course, takes practice!

It's described on Pgs. 62-63 in The Complete Rigger's Apprentice: Tools and Techniques for Modern and Traditional Rigging by Brion Toss

5 Secs? That's hella slow for a one-handed bowline... Once someone's shown you, it doesn't take much practice to get it down to about 1.5 sec (give or take a few milliseconds). What's funner is 'throwing' a bowline, also called a sailor's bowline (?i think?), that takes a little more practice, but looks crazy cool.

If I had a video camera, I'd post a clip.

donredondo
2005-08-06, 07:30
firstly Hi.....new to this hammock lark.

the one handed bowline.....easier to show than describe, but this is how my dad taught me.........

take a length of rope and pass it behind you with the free end in your right hand [or left if you're l/handed] hang on to the standing end with your left hand. pass the free end over the standing part closer to you than the grasping left hand, where the two ropes cross grab both with your right hand. if you do it properly you place and grab in one movement and then - twist your wrist away from you, forming a loop in the standing part with the free end coming up through the loop. pass around the standing part [all the while hanging on with the left hand] from right to left and back through the loop and cinch. done.

My dad used to call this the man overboard method as with a bit of practice you can hang on and tie a bowline around yourself. Once you have the knack you can dispense with the passing around your waist bit [unless you really are overboard!] it means you can put a rope under tension with your left hand and get a bowline in one handed.

Verlager
2005-08-06, 11:00
The best method knot repetoire is the simplest one. Select ONE dog-leg slider, a tautline hitch, Midshipman's Hitch, or Tarbuck Knot, and practice tying it 25 times, until it becomes second nature. That way, when it's cold, wet, and dark and you're hungry and tired, you won't make a mistake in rigging.

Observe how the knot uses friction, and assess it's limitations. The tautline hitch is nice dog-leg slider useful for making adjustable loops in tarp guylines ("small stuff"), but it is unwise to kink/hockle the main hammock anchor rope with such a rope deforming knot.

The good news is that these fancy methods (i.e., tying in the bight) are simple and quick, if one is quite familiar with the component parts and terminology.

donredondo
2005-08-06, 11:18
taughtline hitch - is that the american vernacular for a rolling hitch, or is it something else entirely?

as for lorry hitches [shudder]........ it was a firing offense to use one at my dad's boatyard, his argument was that it had no place around the boats. weakened ropes too much, a bugger to undo, but also prone to coming apart if not done properly....... I allways stayed clear of this knot, and I would'nt know how to tie one now!

Verlager
2005-08-06, 13:45
taughtline hitch - is that the american vernacular for a rolling hitch, or is it something else entirely?"Taut" and "taught" are homonyms; words that sound the same. Like "acts" and "ax". I learned that not neat knots need not be knotted, but I thought that one can't be taut a taughtline hitch. Yes, I believe a rolling hitch is a tautline hitch.


as for lorry hitches [shudder]........ it was a firing offense to use one at my dad's boatyard, his argument was that it had no place around the boats. weakened ropes too much, a bugger to undo, but also prone to coming apart if not done properly....... I allways stayed clear of this knot, and I would'nt know how to tie one now! I agree 100%! I assume you are referring to a reef knot, or "square knot", which is a real POS; it capsizes easily, doesn't hold, and can jam. There are many knots which are much better, and nearly as simple to tie.

donredondo
2005-08-06, 15:09
I assume you are referring to a reef knot, or "square knot", which is a real POS; it capsizes easily, doesn't hold, and can jam. There are many knots which are much better, and nearly as simple to tie.

no, it's a twisty jamming thing used as a way of applying a purchase to tighten things down. of course the more twists and loops you put in the lower the strength of the rope becomes.

a reef knot as the name implies has to capsize at the flick of a hand, a man's life may depend on it. It should'nt be used for anything else but putting reefs into sails, and for that, there's nothing better.

Verlager
2005-08-06, 15:46
a reef knot as the name implies has to capsize at the flick of a hand, a man's life may depend on it. Could you please briefly explain your method of capsizing a reef knot?

donredondo
2005-08-06, 18:32
Could you please briefly explain your method of capsizing a reef knot?


take one of the free ends and flick /tug it towards the opposite standing part so that particular bit is almost straight. then take the remains of the knot between thumb and forefinger and slide it off the other free end...... a reef knot should be tied just tight enough to do it's job ie holding a gathered up bit of sail, in conjunction with several others doing their bit, and never overdone. when the time comes to cast off, it's done easily.

Verlager
2005-08-06, 21:21
take one of the free ends and flick /tug it towards the opposite standing part so that particular bit is almost straight. then take the remains of the knot between thumb and forefinger and slide it off the other free end...... a reef knot should be tied just tight enough to do it's job ie holding a gathered up bit of sail, in conjunction with several others doing their bit, and never overdone. when the time comes to cast off, it's done easily.Absolutely dead-on-balls correct!

donredondo
2005-08-07, 05:59
Absolutely dead-on-balls correct!

heh, thanks

now tie a granny knot [standing ends/free ends across on the diagonal] notice how easy it capsizes, it's because of the offset tensions naturally leading to it coming undone.


whoops - wandering OT here?

armitage
2005-08-07, 22:41
Some really brilliant suggestions in this thread, I cannot wait to try some new knots on my rig.

May the sun gods all shine upon you, and if the rain gods do....hopefully you'll be in your hammock all cosy.

SGT Rock
2005-08-08, 01:22
Verlager, you can get silly and off topic here. We ain't too formal on things.

CanoeCamper
2005-08-09, 03:52
I wonder if I could securely recreate something like this (https://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=30429005&memberId=12500226) with a couple twists around a biner?

donredondo
2005-08-09, 07:32
bloody hell 21oz...... use a rolling hitch [tightline] but put the second pass between the first pass and the standing part. tug and lock it in........you may all do this anyway, so I'm preaching to the converted!

CanoeCamper
2005-08-09, 13:40
I'm not so much worried about weight (I canoe rather than hike). If I could do it with biners I already have I would sacrifice some of the HH line to it and shouldn't add much weight anyway. And I've tried all variations of the tautline hitch (http://www.folsoms.net/knots/animations/dspgif.cgi?gifname='anitl.gif'&title=Taut-Line%20Hitch) (midshipman's (http://www.folsoms.net/knots/animations/fifgif.cgi?gifname='animid.gif'&title=Midshipman's%20Hitch) I think is the variation you use Don) but they all slip when I add my weight to the hammock (did I not do it right). That contraption looks and sounds like it will hold AND be adjustable. It would be GREAT not to have to retie a knot for just a few inches of adjustment.

GregH
2005-08-09, 22:01
I've used the tautline hitch for virtually every tent and hammock line since I started camping 35 years ago. I just returned from a week in the Quetico and used the tautline hitch to secure my HH Explorer with nary a problem.
I like them because they hold the line and can be tightened easily. Getting them apart does take a bit of work, however, but they've never let me down! :biggrin:

CanoeCamper
2005-08-11, 02:47
I'll try 'em again to tension the line. Last time both the tautline and midshipman's hitches slipped when I added my 250# to the hammock though. I ended up using the tautline anyway because it is easy to tie/untie (especially if finished on a bight), but I tied them right at the tree-huggers so they wouldn't slip.

GregH
2005-08-12, 00:07
The tautline hitch shouldn't slip at all. Make sure you're setting it right. (It's easy to put the single hitch in the wrong spot.) Here's a good illustration: Tautline Hitch (http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/tautlinehitch.htm)

CanoeCamper
2005-08-12, 21:52
I'm still having trouble with it. Maybe it's the difference in the rope (I have a Safari Deluxe A-Sym w/ 2700# line), or that in my backyard I'm hanging from eye-bolts. I can get the knot (tried tautline (http://www.folsoms.net/knots/animations/dspgif.cgi?gifname='anitl.gif'&title=Taut-Line%20Hitch) and midshipman's (http://www.folsoms.net/knots/animations/fifgif.cgi?gifname='animid.gif'&title=Midshipman's%20Hitch) hitches) to set about half the time, otherwise I get a slow let-down until I'm on the ground or run out of line. I will try a tarbuck knot (http://www.folsoms.net/knots/animations/fifgif.cgi?gifname='anitbk.gif'&title=Tarbuck%20Knot) soon to see if it is more secure. I will also test the knots using the tree-huggers instead of my "normal" backyard set-up with eye-bolts.

Weird thing is it's always just one side that slips, I readjust both sides, the other side slips. :dontknow:

Seeker
2005-08-13, 00:37
there's a climber's knot called a 'prussik knot' that enables you to walk up a rope. have you tried it? don't have a link, but google will guide you.

if you've ever seen james bond/roger moore climb up that cliff to get into the St Cyril's monestary to get the Atax coding machine (i can't remember the name of the movie), he makes a set of them with his shoe laces, while the other guy beats on his pitons and tries to knock him off the cliff face.

CanoeCamper
2005-08-13, 05:09
The prusik knot (http://www.folsoms.net/knots/animations/fifgif.cgi?gifname='aniprs.gif'&title=Prusik%20Knot) is what it used to tension the fly on the main line. It also requires a loop of another rope. I could cut a length off my main line, but I'm not ready for that yet.

In theory this (https://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=30429005&memberId=12500226) works with a biner in place of that triangle thingy. I haven't tested it with my full weight yet, but it works on the hand-held test. It, unfortunately, also requires that I cut the main line. I think I might be able to get away with not cutting line and using it like a tautline though.

I'll know more tomorrow.

donredondo
2005-08-13, 06:13
CC I took a look at that piece of hardware........ it's essentially a cam action device....more weight on the lever the more acute the 'turn' the rope has to go through ... I remember my father making something of the sort........ don't remember how well it worked.....

as for cutting your main line dont do it! you can always shorten a line, but you can't extended it!

There is a way of tying a prussik into your main line, directly, using the free end round the standing part...... but it does take some mental gymnastics to get it right......... but IMO the main line used by HH is too slick [at least when new] to take any of these sliding knots, using the main line for both parts......

Like you I continue experimenting....... :)

CanoeCamper
2005-08-14, 03:25
OK! To start you need a figure eight loop (http://www.folsoms.net/knots/animations/fifgif.cgi?gifname='anif8l.gif'&title=Figure%20Eight%20Loop) near the end of your rope (or where needed if tying at a shorter distance). Feed the rope through the tree-huggers (or eye-bolts in my backyard). Hook in your biner (I used these (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=38551830&memberId=12500226)) so the gate faces down and the "tie-in" is in the small part. Now feed the working end of the line into the biner (big end) and loop the line around again. Close the gate (and lock if a locking gate). Voila!

Grips tight, and is adjustable by releasing tension on proper side of biner and pulling the working line and biner in opposite directions. Don't worry if your working line slips onto the "back" of the biner, it will still hold (and is easy enough to slide back into position if you're anal about it like me).

I might get a couple of pics to post tomorrow if anyone is interested in seeing it.

donredondo
2005-08-14, 09:36
more or less came to the same conclusions. bought a set of quickdraws off ebay.

http://tinyurl.com/bq7pd


cheap and cheerfull and adequate for the tasks.

I'll see how I get on

yeah post some pics......it's much easier than trying to describe it........

GregH
2005-08-14, 13:36
Definitely post the pics. I'm always interested in a better knot.

CanoeCamper
2005-08-14, 18:24
Ok, here is what I can do on short notice. I do not have a digital camera, but I do have a camera-phone. The resolution isn't the greatest, but I think it'll work ok.

I start (http://us.f3.yahoofs.com/users/4206a213ze4b551d6/fc93/__sr_/7cf9.jpg?phwj7_CBoFKyRZ.g) with my hammock. I tie a figure eight loop (http://us.f3.yahoofs.com/users/4206a213ze4b551d6/fc93/__sr_/c555.jpg?ph3m7_CBrZFvqr7.) in the end. I feed the rope through the tree-huggers (or eye-bolt), then hook (http://us.f3.yahoofs.com/users/4206a213ze4b551d6/fc93/__sr_/ccb4.jpg?phTn7_CB0_SRWKXU) the biner through the loop and over the working line. I then make a loop around the hook (http://us.f3.yahoofs.com/users/4206a213ze4b551d6/fc93/__sr_/bba7.jpg?phtp7_CBAEe4xPDa) and then tension and center everything.

I took all the pictures from where I was tying, here is a reverse shot (http://us.f3.yahoofs.com/users/4206a213ze4b551d6/fc93/__sr_/715b.jpg?phxr7_CBdPdrhrtt).

CanoeCamper
2005-08-14, 18:32
I didn't need it, but more loops around the "hook" will increase friction.

As always with biners, beware the gate. Mine (http://www.campmor.com/images/climbing/34252.jpg) have locking gates and are designed for climbing. Never allow the line to move across any gate (locking or not).

Sometimes the loop slid onto the back of the biner, but this did not affect the performance at all!

donredondo
2005-08-15, 15:15
CC, could'nt get any of the pics in the first post to load [url not found]..... the second post loaded, but I know what a screw gate carb looks like :)

CanoeCamper
2005-08-16, 04:54
CC, could'nt get any of the pics in the first post to load [url not found]..... the second post loaded, but I know what a screw gate carb looks like :)

Hmmmm... Works OK for me. They are posted on Yahoo SomethingOrOther. Anyone else having problems viewing them?

Maybe some one can tell me how to post them directly to the thread.

SGT Rock
2005-08-16, 06:27
If looks like the link opens to a My Yahoo page or something similar in Yahoo. They probably have that set up to only open for the owner of the document or members for whatever group that is that are logged in. It won't open for me. You can attach them to a post.

CanoeCamper
2005-08-17, 03:46
Try #2: (I never scrolled down that far before while replying) :damnmate:
Now...How do I put them in the text like Turk? :confused:

*Note* "Loop Around Hook" is slack & "Reverse Angle" is tightened

donredondo
2005-08-17, 19:04
hey great. I'm surprised one loop round the hook is enough. I'll try the setup tomorrow with the hooks I got.

GregH
2005-08-18, 00:01
Great pics, CC. This holds tight with your body in the hammock?

CanoeCamper
2005-08-18, 10:26
Great pics, CC. This holds tight with your body in the hammock?
Holds tight, and I'm 250#. My hammock is still pretty new and a Safari with heavier line, I don't know if that will have any difference on how much friction the rope has, but works great now. Also, can get more friction with more turns, but one is all i needed.

GregH
2005-08-18, 15:17
It looks great. Tying a knot is easy, too, but this looks very elegant. I'm going to give it a try.

CanoeCamper
2005-08-19, 13:23
It looks great. Tying a knot is easy, too, but this looks very elegant. I'm going to give it a try.
Elegant or not, it sure is quick. Especially if you leave the loops permanently in the ends of the line. That in combination with "snake-skins" lets me hang mine in about a minute +/- few secs (not counting any readjustments).

GregH
2005-08-19, 20:18
Regarding carabiners:
Would it be better to use locking 'biners so they don't accidentally open? (Is that what you were pointing out in not allowing the line to cross the gate?)

I'm really giving this a tryout.

And maybe the carabiner isn't elegant, but you certainly are! :elefant:

GregH
2005-08-21, 14:55
I put up the HH Explorer Asym in my garage using carabiners. It worked well. I'm not sure it's easier than tying a knot but I'll try it "in the wild" if the temperature ever gets below 100 here in Texas!

CanoeCamper
2005-08-21, 20:41
The gate on any biner is not meant to hold any weight, even on professional biners. Locking gates just mean they won't (or shouldn't) accidentally come open. The locking gates in my set-up might be over-kill, but oh well. If you get some biners made for climbing they will have (mine did anyway) an instruction sheet with them explaining proper safe use.

CanoeCamper
2005-08-21, 20:44
As far as speed...
I hung my hammock today in about 30 seconds. Did a little adjusting and after a grand total of 2 minutes had it just the way I wanted it!

GregH
2005-08-21, 23:16
Well, it was my first time! :)

CanoeCamper
2005-08-22, 01:13
Once you get it, you'll love it! :love: To save time I keep the figure-eight loops permanently in the ends of the line.

CanoeCamper
2005-08-22, 19:13
Ok, I think I might have this picture thing figured out. Here goes another try:

First I start with my hammock.
http://tinypic.com/ay3h1e.jpg

Then I tie a figure-eight loop (http://www.folsoms.net/knots/animations/fifgif.cgi?gifname='anif8l.gif'&title=Figure%20Eight%20Loop) permanently into the ends of the line (I also used a figure-eight knot (http://www.folsoms.net/knots/animations/fifgif.cgi?gifname='anif8.gif'&title=Figure%208) as a stopper knot).
http://tinypic.com/ay3giv.jpg

I then run the line through the tree-huggers (or in my back-yard an eye-bolt), and then hook the biner through the loop I tied and over the standing end of the line.
http://tinypic.com/ay3gph.jpg

I then loop the standing line around the "hook" of the biner.
http://tinypic.com/ay3gvt.jpg

I tightened the line by holding slack in the standing line and pulling on the biner before I took this reverse shot.
http://tinypic.com/ay3ee1.jpg

After the initial set-up (tying the loops etc.), hanging only takes seconds! I can have the whole thing hung in the time it took me to tie the Hennessy Knot once.

GregH
2005-08-22, 23:00
The Figure-8 knots will fit through the openings in the tree-huggers?

CanoeCamper
2005-08-23, 00:12
They should. At least they do on mine. They even fit through my eye-bolts in the back-yard.

CanoeCamper
2005-08-23, 08:37
After further review...
the knots in this photo are overhand loop and overhand knot. :shot:

http://tinypic.com/ay3giv.jpg

I forgot one turn to make it a figure-eight.

I retied them last night (with actual figure-eights) and they still fit through everything (tree-huggers and eye-bolts). The overhand knots will work (I have spent many hours lounging in that set-up for tests), but the eights are stronger and more secure.

Seeker
2005-08-23, 10:57
CC-

as much rappelling as i was exposed to in the army, this is one of those things where i'm beating myself in the head saying ''man, i should've thought of that''... especially since i use carabiners to tie off on! classic case of having the key to unlock your chain, but not seeing it. works just like the belaying system.

anyway, i tried this at home last night with my HH B Asym. there was a comment earlier, i think, about wondering if the thin spectra hammock support lines would hold in the carabiner. they do. i'll wrap them twice through, just to make sure, but once seems to be enough (i weigh 180# or so). doesn't seem to matter which way you loop them, like it does with rappelling (if you wrap them the wrong way, the rope comes out over the back side of the gate, hence the locking carabiner concept.)

for those who have a slight problem with the figure-8 knot going through the tree hugger (mine's a little too tight to be considered 'easy'), you can just cut the stitches and have it resewn a half inch or so bigger.

thanks for the great idea.

Verlager
2005-09-14, 01:42
... I noticed that it kinks and twists the rope badly. Maybe I'm talking like a purist, but I mind having the integrity of my hammock support ropes compromised by flat spots, hockles, hourglass deformities caused by using this rappeling trick to quickly rig my hammock(s). I am as kind as possible to my ropes, I never put any sharp bends in them. Treat them gently, keep them clean, etc., as if you were betting your life on them. Most pros use something like this: "correct method" (http://www.mosquitohammock.com/hammockknots.html). I use this w/o the loop, just threaded thru a few ropes joined by a carabiner. Also kind to rope is the HH lashing.

Perhaps this is like telling a guy that jackrabbit starts are bad for his car's engine. People like quick fixes and flashy tricks.

But, we hammockers are off the ground, rope care is therefore part of the game for us. If you treat your ropes right, they will provide years of service. Mistreat them, and they will let you down at the worst possible moment.

Think about the structure of the rope you use, and imagine the oddball stresses this technique subjects the rope to. It's stationary, not just applied briefly to any one part, like in a rapell. Yes, it mucks up your double braided rope!

And, similarly, I avoid using any dog-leg sliders on main hammock support ropes, such as a tautline hitch, Tarbuck knot, or Midshipman's Hitch. They all distort the rope by design.

Seeker
2005-09-14, 14:29
i'm less keen on the idea now too, after trying it awhile... takes just as long to set it up as before, and though adjusting or tightening the rope quickly is nice, i'm going back to the way i used to do it...

2Questions
2005-10-11, 21:41
I've been looking at a simple "Clam cleat" made for marine use that I think would work for tensioning the main rope of my HH. Clam cleat CL253 to be specific. Anyone ever tried a rope cleat of this sort instead of the HH lashing technique? Check them out at ClamCleat.com.

GregH
2005-10-12, 00:12
Verlager,
How would you tie the "correct method" using the bowline given the HH has the center line with no "U" at the hammock side? Would you tie the bowline in the line near the hammock then take the remainder of the line (I'm sure there's a knot word for it) and run it around the tree and back to loop through the bowline?

Thanks,

Greg