Choose yer weapons: Stoves.

[SGT Rock]

What is your main stove?

Of course my vote is the homemade alcohol model. Current project is the Ion stove, but I own a Cat stove, Turbo V8 stove, two microlite stoves, a Peak1 Multifuel, an MSR Simmerlite, a Trangia Westwind, an Esbit pocket stove, a homemade Esbit stove, a canteen Trioxane stove, a Brasslite Micro, a Brasslite Solo, and a Brasslite Duo.

Choose yer weapons!

[DebW]

You better do a lot of cooking, Sarge.

[SGT Rock]

I'm just a stove weenie.

[chief]

i currently use a msr whisperlite . also, a friend gave me a soda can stove for xmas, along with a windscreen, a can of alcohol and a msr titan kettle (he's trying to get me to switch). love the pot, but still not happy with alcohol stoves. tried several. all light, but functionally iffy, imho. i'll keep my gas!

anyone had experience with the new msr simmerlite?

[Redbeard]

I used the MSR whisperlite from Springer to Damascus last year. Personally I thought it was fairly bulletproof (that's a figure of speech!) But others had trouble with leaking seals, they probably overtorqued the jets in assembly or something. I switched to Esbit at Damascus in a desperate attempt to carry less than 50lbs. The more I ate, the smaller my cooking gear got...

[PKH]

I've used a variety of stoves, starting with white gas, progressing to light cannister and finally wood burners. For years my favourite was the Zip but now I use an odd piece of kit called the "Kelly Kettle" - another wood burning contraption. (Actually a combination stove and kettle). No moving parts apart from the handle. This thing is the only cooking tool I know that performs better in a high wind. I received this interesting kettle as a retirement gift and I have to confess I didn't take it seriously. Last year I finally got around to trying it out in the field and now I'm a believer. You should note that this device is for those hikers who have developed a workable system to heat and rehydrate their food, rather than cook or simmer. I use an insulated Gatorade jar (holds 3 cups) and this will keep food lip burning hot for at least 30 minutes, more than enough to "cook" a good sized dinner.

The kettle makes a dandy conversation starter as well.

Cheers,

PKH

[CanoeBlue]

PKH .... thanks for posting the item about the Kelly Kettle - I have seen them advertised in the Lee Valley Tool Catalogues and they look really interesting, but I have never talked to or seen anything written by anyone who has actually USED one. I will probably try one now.

and Sarge ..... thank you for publishing the list of stoves that you own. I was finally able to prove to my wife that there are others out there who understand that you just can't own enough stoves.

I am also attempting to convince her that you just can't own enough canoes. Yeah - I know that this is a hiking forum, but can anybody out there help me out???

[brian]

But you CAN own too many canoes!!:D ;) ;)


Brian

[jumpngeorge]

I recently purchased a Brasslite. I've tried it out and love it. I plan to retire my Svea after 23 years on the trail. This stove has been very good to me.

Last summer I was hiking the Long Trail. I whipped out my 23 year old Svea and the college kids sharing the shelter freaked. Is my Svea the last one in America?

[pobbie]

nohting beats an alcohol stove just because of the lightness and cause there fun to build.:D

[DebW]

Originally posted by jumpngeorge
Last summer I was hiking the Long Trail. I whipped out my 23 year old Svea and the college kids sharing the shelter freaked. Is my Svea the last one in America?

I have 2 old SVEAs, but they don't work anymore. After they'd sat idle for 10 years, I tried to light them. They burned with a very weak flame like a candle, never did roar and burn like they should. I cleaned the jets and disassembled everything I could, but never got them working. Maybe the wick had deteriorated.

[CanoeBlue]

DebW -

Here's a link that may help you get those old classics working:
http://www.spiritburner.com/ "Classic Samp Stoves" - a site for stove collectors (these are real "stove weinies")and there are links there where you may find spare parts and advice on what to do next.

[jumpngeorge]

Optimus still make the Svea. They are available from REI. While I was shopping for stoves, I think I saw that you could still get replacement parts for the Svea through Optimus. Mine never let me down, but I am 52...the Brasslite weighs 1.5 ounces; the Svea close to a pound. In my youth, I was a mule...But now I'm all about cutting weight.

[Footslogger]

Was always a cannister stove person. Probably have 4 - 5 different isobutane models. Was most recently using the MSR Pocket Rocket and was very satisfied. Just got tired of lugging those gas cannisters around and bought 2 Trangias. Bought them before the big "wave" of home-mades hit the scene. Like the Trangia for it's durability. It is has never failed me yet. That's what I'll be taking on my thru this year.

[SGT Rock]

Originally posted by PKH
For years my favourite was the Zip but now I use an odd piece of kit called the "Kelly Kettle" - another wood burning contraption. (Actually a combination stove and kettle). No moving parts apart from the handle. This thing is the only cooking tool I know that performs better in a high wind. I received this interesting kettle as a retirement gift and I have to confess I didn't take it seriously.

I found the web site: http://www.kellykettle.com/products.htm

What size is it, and how much does it weigh?

[SGT Rock]

I tried to use the e-mail link on the company website and it keeps coming back as undeliverable.

[PKH]

Alright Sergeant,

I just checked the website you discovered and this is obviously the UK manufacturers site. A much better site is the Lee Valley site: www.leevalley.com/home/main/asp

Lee Valley is a specialty tool company that also offers some neat outdoor and gift ideas. They will also quote you prices in US or Canadian dollars. (It is a Canadian company) Once you're into the site, look under gifts, then outdoors.

They provide a very nice picture and cutaway schematic of the kettle. Weight is 1.2 lbs and capacity is 3 1/2 cups. At first glance this is very heavy but as I indicated in my original post, it suits a hiker who does not simmer his dinner but just lets it heat and rehydrate in a bag or insulated container. I use a Gatorade jar, and if I'm not mistaken, I got the idea from you. Cheers - works like a charm. So while my kettle weighs 1.2 lbs, I don't carry a pot of any kind, and of course I don't carry fuel. Over a longer hike, say 5 to 8 days, this works out to a considerable saving in weight.

Some practical considerations. The thing is somewhat bulky, but of course is hollow. I stuff the interior with each day's meal. It is a wood burner so it does get black, but most of this is on the inside of the chimney. Naturally it requires wrapping in your pack - I just use a light garbage bag. The big question is of course, how well does it boil water. I would say very well. It is difficult to be scientific about this but I know that a medium ziplock bag of dry twigs and small sticks will boil the kettle 3 times, sometimes 4. The first boil can be a little slow but refills are ready in jig time, perhaps faster than you can be ready for it if you're not paying attention. It is usual to have flames shooting out of the top of the chimney. I suppose you could cook over this too but I've never tried it.
The wood fire requires some tending of course but is actually less fiddly than the Zip stove. With the Kelly you just drop fuel down the chimney.
The kettle is pretty stable as well. Now with most stoves you instinctively try to set up in a sheltered spot - that's what wind screens are for afterall. Go for the breeze with the Kelly. The more wind, the hotter it burns. You'll see from the picture that this is an efficient system. The entire interior of the chimney is water heating surface. How you use the waste heat from the chimney top is up to you. I'm thinking some precooked bacon in a bit of tinfoil would work a treat.

A variety of firestarters can assist initial combustion. You know about them all of course - my favourite is birch bark picked from the trail. (miles from my campsite, of course.)

As I said, my troops bought me this thing when I left the navy. It didn't make all that much sense to me until I simplified my cooking technique to just heat and rehydrate. For that particular style of hiking the Kelly Kettle can work well.

There was an unexpected bonus to this system. When I had to carry my fuel (of any kind) I was always careful to conserve and make it last. Water was for cooking and drinking and washing was a pleasant option. Even with the Zip stove I always had to keep an eye on my battery capacity. My fuel is free now and I'm happy to boil gallons of it. Things are a lot better now for my hiking partners!

Cheers,

PKH

[SGT Rock]

Found it: http://www.leevalley.com/gifts/page.asp?page=43901&category=4,104,45478&abspage=2&ccurrency=2&SID=

That answers a lot of questions, but brings up others. The Kelly Kettle site says they make thm in 1 pint and 2.5 pints models, but the other site says capacity is 26 ounces, which is about 1.7 pints or so.

It probably wouldn't be that much more weight efficinet for me personally if I were to get rid of my fuell bottle, pot, fuel, and accessories which are a total of 15.2 ounces in exchange for this kettle for 19.2 ounces, but I could see it being so for someone with a slightly heavier stove. Maybe one could be made as small as possible for the absolute minimum needed for a hiker and get the weight even lower. Maybe a 1.2 pint capacity without the wooden handle - chain maybe with a single attachment rivet instead of the 4 rivet hardware.

[PKH]

Sarge,

Just to clear up some weights and measures confusion. The UK site (British) is providing capacities in imperial measure. That is: 1 pint equals 20 fluid oz. A US pint is 16 oz of course. We poor Canadians are caught somewhere in the middle and have to be fluent in both systems. The version offered by Lee Valley holds 24 oz (3 cups) easily, or, 3 1/2 cups with a tendency to spill over when boiling. This is the version listed as 1.2 lbs, and is the 1 pint (UK) version listed in your original site. Think of it as being rated at 20 oz with bonus 4 oz capacity! Those kippers are just rounding off. Dimensions of the thing are as per the Lee Valley site.

As I said, an unusual piece of kit and one that's surprisingly fun to use. Naturally it also functions as an extra water container in the camp site.

The only benefit to this difference in pint measures is buying beer in the UK and Ireland. When you order a pint you get a nice big glass!

Cheers,
PKH

[SGT Rock]

Ahh, that explains it. So a pint of beer is indeed a buge glass. Mmmmmm...

[brian]

do i hear an extremly hard stove project? I wonder if someone would come up w\ a stove- possibly made out of coffee cans, ect,- that functions like this stove. now THAT would be cool.


Brian- thinking the impossible:p

[PKH]

Hmmmm.

"Impossible" is one of those odd words. Easier to think than do. Go for it buddy. My cynical advice is to be at least 100 yards from your camp site when you fire it up. Behind a big log. On the other side of the hill.

A road runner/Wiley coyote result comes to mind.

Seriously - of course this is not impossible. The Kelly Kettle is a modernized version of a 19th century (perhaps even 18th) working man's lunch kettle. If those jokers could do it, 21st man can too. Just not this neanderthal. The original would have made of tin or perhaps copper although this is unlikely. Copper is expensive and this is a bog Irish (read peat poor) tool. It requires comprehensive welding or braising skills. Obviously a skilled machinist could do this. Rules me out right at the start and (no offence, I mean it, sincerely, really) most of the pepsi can/catfood/sardine tin alcohol stove crowd as well.

Actually this was discussed some time ago at the backpacking lightweight site. I was shocked to see some guy (American too) mention the Kelly.

I'm amazed at the fun I'm having discussing my weird little kettle. If two years ago someone had suggested that I'd be hauling a high pressure boiler (try leaving spout cork in) into the woods on my back . . . . . well, I would have been very rude.

Cheers,

PKH

[Zero Day]

I use my Trangia most. I like the pot.

I also have an old (circa 1960) Svea that still works.

DebW I suspect that you have a pressure leak somewhere. Probably around the filler cap.

I also have an Esbit and a few soda can burners.

[McPuck]

I use an esbit stove and an Evernew 0.9 Ti pot. I got the design from Stovestomper's web site. The stove was designed by Kevin Smith. Everything fits in the pot. My complete kitchen with 4 days of fuel is a little less than 1 pound. It works great!!!

[Bandana Man]

The Primus Alpine Micro is a small cannister stove that I use for solo hikes. Weighs 5 ounces. The stove screws onto a small fuel cannister that weighs 13 ounces. For hikes with my wife we take the same stove and a large fuel cannister that weighs 1 pound, 5 ounces. Or we take a Primus Himalaya MultiFuel stove that can use a lot of different fuels, including white gas and cannisters. This stove weighs 1 pound, 5 ounces. I think that includes an empty 1 liter fuel bottle and the pump that goes inside the fuel bottle, but no fuel. Obviously, I'm not an ultra-lite hiker! But it works for me and that's what matters most. After reading about alcohol stoves on this and other sites, I'd like to get a Brasslite for my solo AT section hikes.

[cldphoto]

Another vote for the Whisperlite. Clean, quick, and efficient, and it's not THAT heavy.

[flyfisher]

I did a little work on this today... Very interesting if your only requirement is hot water.

Weight of the backpacker version is 1# 12 oz... pretty heavy:

http://www.permaculture.co.uk/erc/erc36.html

Comes under the names of Kelly kettle, volcano kettle and storm kettle.

Anyone come up with a version which can be home-made?? I see a project looming.

Rick

[PKH]

The Kelly kettle has been covered pretty thoroughly earlier in this thread. Nice piece of kit if you only need hot water. I use mine almost exclusively now. By the way, the kettle only weighs 1.2 lbs so it's not all that much of a burden.

Cheers,

PKH

[flyfisher]

Ah! I did not see the second page which went into the kelly kettle in detail. Nevertheless, I am intriguiged by the idea of coming up with a simple way to make one... Off to the shop!

<><

[tomman]

Have you tried the simmerlite by MSR and if so what do you think about it? I have a whisperlite but would like to save teh weight and have the ability to simmer some foods.

By the way I just joined to list and really enjoy all the information.

Tomman

[flyfisher]

The prototype ultralite volcano kettle is a success!

I made two prototypes over the weekend. The first was a disaster, but I learned some lessons from it. The second holds a pint of water, and boils in just about 3-4 minutes.

Dimensions are 4 inches in diameter, 7 inches tall, and weight to be determined ((about 6 oz I think)) It is constructed of aluminum flashing, glued with JB Weld, an epoxy good to 600 degrees. Pictures and an article to follow on my homepage later. Instead of the conical top of the Kelly Kettle(R) and the Storm Kettle(R), my kettle has a flat top with water opening next to the "volcano" spout. Instead of bail and chain, I attached a set of foldaway handles like the ones on the .85L MSR pot.

The fire can is an 8 oz tuna tin with a hole cut in it's side. The pot sits on two removable wire stands. When they are removed, the pot slides into the fire can which protects the most fragile part of the kettle.

I ran the stove 6 or 7 times today with different twigs, and different tinders. Twigs worked best when they were less than 4mm thick. Testing different tinders, I started the fire with paper, then with kerosene, with alcohol, with gasoline (caution!) and with shavings from a stick. For the fuels I started the fire with about 5cc (1tsp) of each fuel. If gasoline is used, one should make sure there is fair ventilation so the fumes are not collecting in the pot's "volcano". Normally, using a liquid fuel would be an emergency tinder in wet conditions, as shaved sticks seemed to work just fine as tinder. One can boil water just with paper as fuel... I used a little 10 page advertising circular without any twigs to make coffee and oatmeal this AM.

AS others have mentioned, the stove does best when there is a bit of a breeze.

Rick <><

[PKH]

Well done! I wouldn't have believed it. Love to see your pictures.

PKH

[SGT Rock]

Sounds cool. I want to see it too.

[flyfisher]

OK, weight ended up as 6.3 oz. See the details here:

http://www.flyfisher-kayaks.com/ultralite/ultrakettle.htm

But if you are dying for a picture:

http://www.flyfisher-kayaks.com/ultralite/volcano2.jpg

[SGT Rock]

Go out this weekend and use it a lot, then give us a report on the durability. This looks like a col project. As I see it the materials needed are:

Roof flashing for the sides, top and bottom.
Wire for the handles
JB Weld for gluing it together.

Instead of a wire stitch, did you think about using paper and tape to make a tube, then unroll some aluminum inside it to the right dimensions and glue it. Then the paper could be removed after curing of the glue. For the cone, go ahead and cut the topand put it into position, then bring the cone in from the bottom and unroll it into place with a 1/4" excess at the bottom. Fold this excess up over the outside cylinder to form a lip that you bead at that point instead of inside the cone.

Now for the top, does it need to be glued? Can the top just be removable like a pot lid and still function? It seems like it could be done if the structure of the cone and cylinder were sturdy enough. That would also keep you from having to make the spout in the top, basically like a bunt cake pan with a lid I guess - except the lid would have a hole in it.

[Zero Day]

Is JB weld food grade material? Isn't there some risk of contamination in the water? Who knows what is in that stuff? On the other hand once it is cured it may be inert.

[PKH]

Once again, well bloody done! I must say I'm impressed. I have the same question as Zero Day concerning the safety of the "glue" you used. I had never even heard of this kind of stuff so this may be idle speculation.

PKH

[SGT Rock]

JB Weld can be used to repair water pipes, ceramics, just about anything. Once cured, it is inert. I wouldn't lick it while it is still curing though. It has a heat resistance of 600* F and a tensile strength of 3960 PSI. In fact, if there was a way to make a mould and just make the pot out of JB weld...

[flyfisher]

Originally posted by SGT Rock
Go out this weekend and use it a lot, then give us a report on the durability. That is my plan. This looks like a cool project. As I see it the materials needed are:

Roof flashing for the sides, top and bottom.
Wire for the handles
JB Weld for gluing it together.

For the fire can I used a tuna can

Instead of a wire stitch, did you think about using paper and tape to make a tube, then unroll some aluminum inside it to the right dimensions and glue it. Then the paper could be removed after curing of the glue.

It may be hard to get the edges to be held tightly together with this method. Prototype 1 used sheet metal screws which could not be removed without leaving a big hole to fix... The stitching is similar to the stitch and glue technique used for some home-made kayaks and worked pretty well here.

For the cone, go ahead and cut the topand put it into position, then bring the cone in from the bottom and unroll it into place with a 1/4" excess at the bottom. Fold this excess up over the outside cylinder to form a lip that you bead at that point instead of inside the cone.

I think you are on to something here. On prototype 1 I had put the glue on the outside of the cone and it was mostly wiped off by the cylinder... folding a bit of the cone around would add a physical bond as well as the JB Weld. I may try it in the future if this one falls apart.

Now for the top, does it need to be glued? Can the top just be removable like a pot lid and still function? It seems like it could be done if the structure of the cone and cylinder were sturdy enough. That would also keep you from having to make the spout in the top, basically like a bunt cake pan with a lid I guess - except the lid would have a hole in it.

The spout is very easy to make. I believe the permanent gluing of the top adds enough strength and keeps the ashes from falling into the water enough that I would make it a permanent attachment for the future prototypes as well

[flyfisher]

Originally posted by SGT Rock
Go out this weekend and use it a lot, then give us a report on the durability.

Well, I went out an used it a lot. Went for a splendid hike in Zaleski State Forest with my son.

http://216.136.200.194/auction/Mar/20033165706592410868932.jpg

For cooking, I took only my gatoraide plastic jug (bowl and cup; with a cozie and spoon) and my UltraLite Kettle. It was the cat's meow :D Worked great. No leaks, no problems. I was surrounded by fuel.

I got the Kelly Kettle through the mail. Great looking! Unfortunately, too big (even the hiker version) and the base weighs more than my whole kettle :eek: I think it is going back to the factory soon.

Hey TopRock, change my response in the poll from homemade alcohol stove to Other... I'm hooked.

[GrizzlyBear]

flyfisher - Did you experience any problems with sparks or partially burned material flying out the top? It would appear that a good draft in the stack, might present that type of problem.

I've also been wondering about your trail name. Nowhere in your profile do you mention fly fishing as a chosen pursuit.

[flyfisher]

Originally posted by GrizzlyBear
flyfisher - Did you experience any problems with sparks or partially burned material flying out the top? It would appear that a good draft in the stack, might present that type of problem.


Bear,

The twig fire does not seem to get pumping hard enough to get much ash flying upward. There is a nice draft, but the "chimney" is only 7 inches tall. When burning paper alone, there is a little that wafts upward a foot or so, but I have not seen any thing rising up with twigs. Occasionally the flames do get up an inch or two above the kettle, but that is all. Most of the heat seems to be absorbed by the cool walls of the kettle.

One thing I have noted is the condensation of "tar" on the inside of the kettle. This is likely because the inside never gets warm enough to burn the condensed tar. Over long periods, I do not know how much of a problem this would be. Probably just something that soaking overnight and using a scrub pad on occasionally would deal with.



I've also been wondering about your trail name. Nowhere in your profile do you mention fly fishing as a chosen pursuit.

Let's see where this little rabbit trail leads from... 3 years ago, two buds from church invited my youngest and me to go with them on a trip to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area... I had done the trip before, and had done some wilderness camping, but not much for a bunch of years. We went for a week, caught a bunch of Walleye and Pike, and I fell in love with fishing for about the 4th time in my life.

The rest of the summer, I learned a good deal about Largemouth Bass fishing, Catfish fishing, and began to think about fly fishing. I bought a nice rod and began tying flies... mainly for bluegill, because we only have one trout stream in a 100 mile radius. I did go up there and did catch my first dozen or so trout... which was definately a hoot!

But as I thought about the next trip to the Boundary Waters, I began to think about the possibility of doing it by Kayak. I bought a cheap Kayak, bought a nicer one to be able to go kayaking with someone, and then began building a kayak from wood strips. I ended up building my 5th boat this last January.

But kayaking in the boundary waters means carrying all your gear and the boat yourself. I hate making two trips when doing a portage. I began to investigate ultralight weight camping to be able to apply it to kayaking... and fell in love with the idea of walking the AT - all of it - and since I am about 5 years from retirement, all that seems to be coming together.

Somewhere in there I got involved in geocaching and letterboxing and needed a nam de plume, so flyfisher and geoflyfisher were born.

So... that is where flyfisher comes from. (Oh, to institutionalize it, I began a small business making custom Greenland Kayak paddles, and for that I needed a business name and a web presence, so www.flyfisher-kayaks.com was born)

If you tire of flyfisher and <><, I have also gone by: Rick, Doc, Merlin, Balls, OO, and Wizard; mainly because I have been assigned to several fighter squadrons (as a flight surgeon) in my military career.

Oh, I did carry a flyrod to the boundary waters this last summer. After catching the day's meat, some big smallmouth bass, I usually was found plinking my little flies to catch the big bluegill along about sunset. It was one of the highlights of the trip.

Now you know the rest of the story.

[GrizzlyBear]

So, then, flyfisher - what do you do with your "spare" time? Man, you could probably get something done, if you didn't spend your nights sleeping.;)

[flytier1]

I was prompted by this post to find my old Svea. I last used it almost 20 years ago. I managed to get it fired up, and it gave the reassuring burning noises that it has always done. I am now an owner of an Esbit and some tablets, and I have concocted an alcohol stove made of beer cans. I also own a whisperlite (MSR) which is what I have used lately, but I am interested in lighter-weight alternatives. The only problem that I have had with the Svea was buying a pump kit from REI. As it turns out, the replacement plug which allowed pressurizing the fuel tank leaked! I had to throw this flaming menace out of the vestibule of our tent harmlessly into the snow! This does not say anything bad about the stove. It has been a very reliable stove.

[Bill Phillips]

I have a Svea, Feather 442, two Trangias (westwind and 25-7), a pocket rocket, and three stoves that were my dad's. I don't even care what is optimum any more. I'm just tired of buying stoves. I'll stick with the pocket rocket till I get the stove bug again. If your Svea is burning weakly, its not building enough pressure which means one or more of the seals is bad. There's one in the valve around the stem, and one or more in the lid depending on the lid you have. I know because i just rebuilt mine to remind myself why I don't use it anymore;)

Of interest maybe, I was in Japan last year and saw a stove Iv'e never seen here. It was a Primus canister type that weighed 2.6 oz. including a piezo igniter. It was reasonably priced (no titanium) and very small but was only about 5K or 6K BTU. I found it on line called the Micron (not the micro).

[j.johnson]

I have a peak one multi-fuel, until about 8 or 9 months ago a friend showed me a homemade alcohol stove, I was hooked! last winter myself and my brother-in-laws and father-in-law went packing near Austin Texas and I had made them all alcohol stoves to try. Sense finding your web page I have made several improvements sense my first one. I'm hooked on alcohol. I really don't even know where my peak one is. :biggrin:

[deadeye]

I use a homemade alcohol stove (Cat stove) for all purpose 3-season use. The cartridge stove (Primus Yellowstone) comes along on short trips where culinary exploration may be in store, and an MSR Whisperlite for winter (in Northern New England) use.

[Just Plain Jim]

I use the Trangia Westwind [along with a few Esbit tabs] on my Spring section hikes.
I never have hiked in the winter, but if I ever do I would probably carry my cannister stove if I thought there would be a problem with the cold weather. :)

[woodrat]

You guys have inspired me I checked out the kelly kettle website, think I will get one.!

[KLeth]

We use the Markill gas burner for Trangia/Tundra for our Trangia 25-7. The Markill burner is light, cheap and works very well, but beware that it can pop loose and tilt inside the Trangia. We use piercing canisters and threaded canisters for weedburners. For the piercing ones we use the Markill adapter witch works splendid except under cold contitions (below 4C), where we have to loosen the top seal because it deforms a bit too much making the adapter sensitive to low gas pressure.
The original Trangia burner, we only use as backup.

We also have the 1pint Kelly Kettle which works well, but it's very bulky and kind of heavy. Remember to boil in it serveral times before field-use or you might get a very nasty petrol taste in the water.

Just ordered the Sierra Zip Stove for testing and BBQ daytrips.

[John B.]

While I've yet to use either while camping -- I'm still in prep. mode -- I bought a Brasslite Turbo II-F and I made a Pepsi stove. I've yet to decide which I'll carry, but I'm leaning toward the Brasslite for the following reasons:

1. I like the pot holder that's attached directly to the stove. Having a separate holder would be just one more thing for me to lose, so it's a plus that it's attached.

2. Simmer feature. I've used my Brasslite for porch cooking tests, but that said, the simmer feature is something that I might use on the trail. Put differently, it's an added feature that probably isn't necessary, but it's nice that it's there.

3. If you haven't seen one in person, then let me say that the Brasslite is not just a stove, it's a work of art. It's just cool to look at.

On the other hand, my Pepsi stove is much lighter and I'd venture to say that it's all but indestructible. Being indestructible and having no moving parts for me to misuse/break are HUGE advantages, so if I decide to go without the simmer feature, I'll take my Pepsi stove.

I haven't tried to make the cat stove yet, but that's on my list of things to do before I leave on my hike.

[woodrat]

flyfisher, way to go!!!, I like yours better than the factory one. I really like the idea that you could rig up a way to be cooking something else above kettle while your waters heating, daul purpose, two of my favorite words.

[SGT Rock]

Danon, you may find the cat stove fast, but it uses a lot of fuel. There are ways to tweak a pepsi stove or make a V/Ion type stove that is almost as fast and uses less fuel.

[Sgt.Krohn]

Here’s my collection of “backpacking” stoves.

http://pic12.picturetrail.com/VOL433/1045515/5481091/79765449.jpg

I - like many started with the Coleman Peak-1 400 white gas stove. They are great stoves. They burn hot, and they have the ability to turn down to a simmer. They do require maintenance though, and they’re heavy !! I have retired them for car camping and emergency stoves for when the power goes out. They are the absolute best portable stove to cook with when you cook in a wok !!!!

http://pic12.picturetrail.com/VOL433/1045515/5481091/79765434.jpg

My first lightweight, small, convenient stove was my Gaz Globetrotter cartridge stove. I later found the wire holders for the bigger cartridges. This is the original model where you can’t take the cartridge off after you’ve installed it. For pure simplicity this is still the best stove I own. Instant on and it simmers… The cartridges have gotten a little hard to find and are kinda pricey.

http://pic12.picturetrail.com/VOL433/1045515/5481091/79765418.jpg

Last year I discovered SgtRock’s site through a friend and discovered homemade alcohol stoves. My friend isn’t very crafty with his hands so he was trying to get me to make a few of the different versions. I was hooked !! I discovered that I like the simplicity of “Cobra’s” burner the best and then started playing with different pot holders/primer cups. I finally settled on my cat’s cat food cans and coat hangers from my wife’s dry cleaning.
Since I drink at least 2 DietCokes a day and my cat eats at least one can of cat food a day and my wife has at least 5 pieces at the dry cleaners a week, I can produce at least one alcohol stove a day. I think I have about 80 made up in a grocery bag now and give them away as gifts to all my friends and anyone I can tell about them :biggrin: :wink:

http://pic12.picturetrail.com/VOL433/1045515/5481091/79765396.jpg

[SGT Rock]

Cool collection. Maybe I should do something like that someday.

[Guardianva]

Great reading about your stove discussions here and on Whiteblaze. My troop is getting started to go to Philmont Scout Ranch in NM in 2006. We are looking at gear and stoves are on the list. I will try out the Ion that Sgt Rock has on his website, but in the meantime I saw on e-bay the Brunton Optimus Nova Multi-Fuel stove. I have not seen it mentioned by any of the sages on this thread. Any thoughts about it as a commercially built stove? We have plenty of time to perfect the home made type so that each of us (12 hikers) can have one if needed.

[deadeye]

Has anyone tried out the Vargo Triad Titanium stove? Looks nice, only an ounce, but at $30 it better work great. I'm not sure I can shell out bucks for any stove now, even though since my cat died :bawling: I have to eat the food to get to the can. :eviltongu

I may have to get another cat.

[SGT Rock]

I played with one at Trail Days. Save your money.

[Iceman]

Guardianva, I have a Brunton Nova Multifuel stove and have relied on it in the backcountry ice/snow camping on Mt. St. Helens for the past two years and found this stove to be reliable. Pre-heating the burner during frozen/icy conditions helps a bunch. Slobber a bit of fire paste on the burner and let it burn down to the last few seconds of flame and then open your valve. A good stove for melting lots of snow. I leave it at home in the summer to save on weight. (Winter packing is on a sled, behind me as we snowshoe into our favorite hangout.) I am trying out a trangia alcohol stove this winter and am curious as to the melt time with snow. I imagine this will be a bit slower, but am in no rush.

[deadeye]

Thanks for the info, Sarge. I think I'll try the potted meat stove I saw over at Whiteblaze. Ridiculously simple, and tasty, too. :biggrin:

[Sgathak]

It occured to me today that I have contacts in the soft drink production and bottleing industry... which means I have contacts with Ball Aluminum.

Would it be a waste of time and effort to see if I can get the ball rolling on a "Pop Can Stove" custom made from the factory?

[Guardianva]

Thanks Iceman for the comments. Since we will be in NM in the Summer the homemade units should fit the bill and give the boys a project to work on.

Now a real novice question: what type of fuel do you all recommend and what do you carry it in? We will be on the trail for at least 12-13 days. I don't recall anyone mentioning a homemade product, so I have to assume you use a metal fuel bottle.

Thanks again for your sage advice.

Tom in Virginia Beach, VA

[Sgathak]

Now a real novice question: what type of fuel do you all recommend and what do you carry it in? We will be on the trail for at least 12-13 days. I don't recall anyone mentioning a homemade product, so I have to assume you use a metal fuel bottle.


Guardianva, since you mentioned "homemade" I assume your talking about an alchohol stove not the multifuel stove? If so...

HEET is my favorite fuel... burns hotter and cleaner than isopropyl, and tastes worse than vodka ;) (ok, seriously, dont drink the HEET)

As a fuel bottle, I used a pepsi bottle (size depending on duration) with a RED lid. As a double measure, I also plopped in a few drops of red food coloring. No way to confuse it with water. I noticed some "milkiness" near the lid where the clear plastic clouded. It didnt seem to affect durability any though.

[Lanthar]

It occured to me today that I have contacts in the soft drink production and bottleing industry... which means I have contacts with Ball Aluminum.

Would it be a waste of time and effort to see if I can get the ball rolling on a "Pop Can Stove" custom made from the factory?

Something I was looking at... you can come pretty close to a nice stove with just the 8oz soda (half-size coca-cola) cans, same diameter as soda can just shorter... but it's a little tall (though would make a brasslite-type chimney nice). If you could get some one to make some cans that were even shorter (say 4oz size) and leave the "lid / pop-top area" out of it, you'd have one hell of a starting point for making stove (aka no more cutting cans). And don't worry about "lessened strength do to only having one supporting wall", if you really look at the construction of a soda can stove it only supports the pot (I'm thinking about the integral pot stand ones - Like TinMan (http://www.antigravitygear.com/products/stove.html)) with one wall anyway.then you just drill some holes around the rim, drop a scrap piece of aluminum inside as an inner wall chamber (or not) or stick some insulation in there (or not). and away you go... oh, the other thing I though is the 8oz without the pop-top / lid would be nice to play with as well (aka instant brass-lite)

So, I took a long time saying, yes I think it would be a hell of an idea.

[Lanthar]

Guardianva, since you mentioned "homemade" I assume your talking about an alchohol stove not the multifuel stove? If so...

HEET is my favorite fuel... burns hotter and cleaner than isopropyl, and tastes worse than vodka ;) (ok, seriously, dont drink the HEET)

As a fuel bottle, I used a pepsi bottle (size depending on duration) with a RED lid. As a double measure, I also plopped in a few drops of red food coloring. No way to confuse it with water. I noticed some "milkiness" near the lid where the clear plastic clouded. It didnt seem to affect durability any though.

Or you can buy Denatured Alcohol (http://www.antigravitygear.com/denatured_alcohol.html) in bulk and save a few bucks.. of course, is just as easy to pick up a bottle of heat wherever you go...

[Sgathak]

Would it be a waste of time and effort to see if I can get the ball rolling on a "Pop Can Stove" custom made from the factory?


Well... It would apparently be a fairly big deal to get a "factory pop can stove" due to tooling issues and so on... not impossible, but I would need like 250 preorders before it would be worth anyones time... but I have 100 unused, unmarked, can blanks on the way.

[Lanthar]

Any idea on the pricing levels and exactly what we're looking at them being able to do?

[brian]

Sgathak,

Where did you find the can blanks? Locally. or on the net?

Brian

[Sgathak]

Well... the (very) rough idea was to make a solid formed "pop can stove". Same general performance, but try and cut the weight from the epoxy, flashing tape, etc. It would also be a little bit more durable since it would all be one piece (K.I.S.S.).

With a base order of 250 items, the stoves would cost about $4000 for the full order, or roughly $15 per stove (which is why I would need pre orders) and that allows for only like... 6 cents of profit per item ;) The problem is that there really isnt any existing tooling to punch the aluminum right. It would only require 2 or 3 new forms, and those are quickly machined... but they would only do a run "after hours", and the wicking material between the walls would need to be placed by hand, so there is a manual labor charge in there as well.

Brian, the can blanks I am getting are due to my "contacts" in the bottling industry. To my knowledge, you cannot just go buy them.

[Guardianva]

Thanks for the gouge Sgathak. Two questions:
1) What is HEET?
2) Why a red top Pepsi bottle, is it different from other soda bottles?

Like you ready made can idea, but did you consider storage and handling in your cost calculations?

Tom in Va Beach, VA

[Lanthar]

Well... the (very) rough idea was to make a solid formed "pop can stove". Same general performance, but try and cut the weight from the epoxy, flashing tape, etc. It would also be a little bit more durable since it would all be one piece (K.I.S.S.).

With a base order of 250 items, the stoves would cost about $4000 for the full order, or roughly $15 per stove (which is why I would need pre orders) and that allows for only like... 6 cents of profit per item ;) The problem is that there really isnt any existing tooling to punch the aluminum right. It would only require 2 or 3 new forms, and those are quickly machined... but they would only do a run "after hours", and the wicking material between the walls would need to be placed by hand, so there is a manual labor charge in there as well.

Brian, the can blanks I am getting are due to my "contacts" in the bottling industry. To my knowledge, you cannot just go buy them.

so their idea is a extra short can, single round hole in the top, jet drilled by them and wicking material placed inside? what is the kicker on the tooling costs? and how big of a kick would the wicking material make? why not leave out the material and just do what ever would be fully automated?

[Sgathak]

Guardianva, Gouge?

the red lid is to help identify the bottle... not a big deal when its full (if your using any food coloring, even more important if your using uncolored fuel), but you dont want to accidently put water in your fuel bottle.

Cost calculations for the stoves are as estimated by the people I talked to, not my numbers. They are production only.

I suppose there doesnt NEED to be any wicking material, but on the stoves Ive made by hand, performance has suffered without it. Is this not a common experience? If its not needed, it would cut costs quite a bit.

[Lanthar]

I'm thinking more like producing them without, and allowing people to put wicking material in if they choose.

Are talking double wall stoves, or single wall?

[Sgathak]

I was talking about a double wall stove, with wicking material between the inner and outer walls.

There would be no way to add in wicking material... its either there, or its not... unless someone were to just add the wicking material into the fuel well, in which case, theres not much reason to make a double wall. In fact, there not much reason to make a stove at all. Just cut off a can botton and roll the edges.

[Lanthar]

that's my point, if they can build that, with predrilled jets, Then you could sell single (aka
Tin Man (http://www.antigravitygear.com/products/stove.html)) and double wall (includes wicking material and a piece of aluminum) "kits" all you need to do the inner wall is a small piece of aluminum to unfurl inside of the stove. A premade outer shell will easily hold a pot with 2+ cups of water. you won't need to go through the rigamarole of getting the inner wall just right so it supports the pot.
I'd make the jets more like this (http://www.thermojetstove.com/02burner.jpg) though

[Sgathak]

having it be a kit kind of takes away from the K.I.S.S. aspect eh?

In my head, the inner wall isnt load bearing... infact, the inner wall wouldnt even really need to make contact with anything... I guess Id need to draw a picture to show what I mean...

Anyway... the basic idea is that its all one solid piece of aluminum. Nothing to worry about, nothing to fiddle with. Just a rediculously simple stove (that is otherwise a bit more impressive than the last 2inches of a beer can, but not much harder to make)

Anyway, its kind of a moot point anyway... it would take WAY too many pre-orders for me to make it happen, and if the idea itself is any good, and since Ive blabbed about the idea plenty already, if someone wanted to take the idea and run with it, they could have it done in very short order.

[Guardianva]

Sagthat (aka Spetsnaz?),

'Gouge' is Navy for a small fact that keeps you alive or out of trouble. The phrase is, "An ounce of gouge is worth a pound of knowledge." There was too much to lean at flight school, so at times you just 'boned up on the gouge' and prayed they didn't ask too detailed a question.

Back to the question at hand, what is HEET? I've followed about denatured OH, but you are the first to mention HEET.

You bottle discussion helped what I read on Sgt Rock's website about using a cap full of fuel in the stove.

Tom in Virginia Beach (Home of the Atlantic Fleet) :captain:

[Lanthar]

HEET is more or less pure methanol (highly toxic) that you put in your gas tank to de-ice / dewater any water that may have gotten in and begun to come out (water and gas don't full mix). Difference between it and denatured alcohol is that denatured is primarily ethanol (what gets you drunk) with some methanol and maybe benzene mixed in (aka it's no longer natural, it's been denatured) to keep people from using it as a source of cheap "entertainment".

differences in performance?
HEET - higher vapor pressure (aka lower boiling point), so will likely light easier in cold weather
Denatured - higher energy content per ounce of fuel, less toxic / damaging to the environment if you spill it

the perfect fuel for the stoves (from a toxicity and enrgy content and ease of ignition) would be eveclear (98% pure ethanol, 2% water or so)... but doing that is a waste of good money...

[SGT Rock]

Well SLX brand of denatured alcohol is 95% Ethyl - so higher BTUs with 5% Ethyl, so a little bit better cold weather performance than pure ethyl alcohol.

[Lanthar]

ah, yeah, that is one side-benefit, the toxic methyl in denatured allows the stoves to light easier in cold weather. The methyl will light quickly and burn, heating up the stove enough to ensure that the ethanol will vaporize and burn.

anyone tested pure eth in cold vs pure meth vs denatured in cold conditions? I'd be curious to see the differences...

[Sgathak]

Sagthat (aka Spetsnaz?)

Not "aka", but I have trained with Spetsnaz counter terror teams, and my "signature line" is the unabbreviated name for SpetsNaz.


'Gouge' is Navy for a small fact that keeps you alive or out of trouble. The phrase is, "An ounce of gouge is worth a pound of knowledge." There was too much to lean at flight school, so at times you just 'boned up on the gouge' and prayed they didn't ask too detailed a question.

Thanks. New slang! The only squid talk I know is "scuttlebut", which annoys my grandfather to no end. (23 years Navy. He was a "mustang". Went from a mark 1 model 0 sailor, to O3 intel squirrel) Flight school? Fighter jock or rotor head?


Back to the question at hand, what is HEET? I've followed about denatured OH, but you are the first to mention HEET.

They already answered this question.


You bottle discussion helped what I read on Sgt Rock's website about using a cap full of fuel in the stove.

Glad it helped. Im not sure what cap size Top was talking about, but a full (to the top) pepsi bottle cap of Heet is more than enough to get a cup of water to tea making temp.

[Guardianva]

Thanks all for the fuel summary. I take it that Evaclear is expensive on a cost comparison per ounce (but you can mix it with your power drink to give it a kick).

My background is E-2 Hawkeye command and control carrier based aircraft. I'm a retired NFO (Naval Flight Officer - guy in back, but our pilots joked it stood for No Future Outside as they jumped to the airlines). On top of that I'm the son of a retired Senior Chief (E-8) Avionics Technician who was aircrew, so I was born into the 'family trade.'

Scuttlebutt is a classic. Hit you dad with RUMINT (pronounced room-ent). It is our contraction of Rumor Intelligance.

Another recent creation was Cludo (Clue-dough). Nordo has stood for "No Radio", so Cludo is No Clue. :biggrin:

Stove construction begins in ernest next week. Time to buy pots, and I take it that titanium is the way to go. May as well get it right the first time.

Thanks all for the 'gouge.'

Tom in Va Beach, VA

[youngblood]

HEET is more or less pure methanol (highly toxic) that you put in your gas tank to de-ice / dewater any water that may have gotten in and begun to come out (water and gas don't full mix). Difference between it and denatured alcohol is that denatured is primarily ethanol (what gets you drunk) with some methanol and maybe benzene mixed in (aka it's no longer natural, it's been denatured) to keep people from using it as a source of cheap "entertainment".

differences in performance?
HEET - higher vapor pressure (aka lower boiling point), so will likely light easier in cold weather
Denatured - higher energy content per ounce of fuel, less toxic / damaging to the environment if you spill it

the perfect fuel for the stoves (from a toxicity and enrgy content and ease of ignition) would be eveclear (98% pure ethanol, 2% water or so)... but doing that is a waste of good money...
You forgot to warn that there are two kinds of HEET, one uses methonal and works well for alcohol stoves and the other uses isopropyl which doesn't work as well and is the fuel of last resort. I believe the methonal HEET comes in a 12 oz yellow bottle and the isopropyl HEET comes in a 12 oz red bottle.

[Lanthar]

You forgot to warn that there are two kinds of HEET, one uses methonal and works well for alcohol stoves and the other uses isopropyl which doesn't work as well and is the fuel of last resort. I believe the methonal HEET comes in a 12 oz yellow bottle and the isopropyl HEET comes in a 12 oz red bottle.

Yeah, the Iso-Heet comes in a red bottle and doesn't work too good.

[SGT Rock]

Brian, the can blanks I am getting are due to my "contacts" in the bottling industry. To my knowledge, you cannot just go buy them.

Could you get these smaller 5.5 ounce cans with the 2-1/8" diameter in blanks? I was thinking that if I could make a couple of tools to mass produce the burners for somestoves and come up with an easy to produce stands that it might be worth it to try and make a batch for selling and see where it goes.

[Sgathak]

Its possible... maybe.

I think it depends on the plant, and the local Ball Aluminum plant makes 12oz cans... I know that. And I know that they DONT make the 8oz cans... I have no idea if they make the 5.5ozers here. I can ask though.

Gimme a few days to see

[SGT Rock]

No rush. Thanks.

[Groucho]

:elefant:

At our Costco they have chafing dish fuel in 7 oz. containers. 24 in a package for 10.49. The equivalent in 12 oz. Heet would cost 12.46 at 89 cents a bottle. On the package it reads "contains methanol", but says nothing about any other alcohol. so I assume it is pure methanol. Your Costco may or may not have this item.

[Lanthar]

:elefant:

At our Costco they have chafing dish fuel in 7 oz. containers. 24 in a package for 10.49. The equivalent in 12 oz. Heet would cost 12.46 at 89 cents a bottle. On the package it reads "contains methanol", but says nothing about any other alcohol. so I assume it is pure methanol. Your Costco may or may not have this item.

Interesting. What kind of bottles?

[Groucho]

Interesting. What kind of bottles?
They are little chafing dish containers, steel cans, which look like they would be only partially full. These could easily be recycled.

[Lanthar]

may have to check out costco. one thing though, these might actually be filled with gelled methanol (which is standardly used for chafing). not nearly as cool, but one could pack one for simmering and then recycle the can as a nice stove...

[Groucho]

may have to check out costco. one thing though, these might actually be filled with gelled methanol (which is standardly used for chafing). not nearly as cool, but one could pack one for simmering and then recycle the can as a nice stove...


I never thought of that. You may be right. Next time I go I'll pick a case up and shake it.
:damnmate:

[Aussie Nutter]

I use a kovea titanium stove it weighs about 80 grams and takes a 200 gram gas can (butane/propane mix). for 300 grams i can cook for a whole week. Gas is fast and easy without the break downs of whisperlite. Why try and save grams on stoves when things like sleeping bags and tents give major savings when u use the right gear. i get by with my stove a trangia bowl lexan spork with an army kidney cup to make my coffee in. The kidney cup is stainless steel btw and is heaps heavy but i consider it my luxury item as i hate the alluminium and plastic ones, mines almost bullet proof and i can cook with it.. thats a duel purpose i reckon :)

[Groucho]

I never thought of that. You may be right. Next time I go I'll pick a case up and shake it.
:damnmate:
Didn't have to shake it. Had "SOLID FUEL" printed on the outside. That's what I get for just glancing and walking on. Funny thing, I used Sterno as a backup when I first started backpacking for rainy days when it was too much trouble to start a wood fire, so I should have known.

Thanks Lanthar. :five:

[CanoeCamper]

I love the smell of a wood campfire!

[dropkick]

I use an old (50's) german alcohol stove called a Turm Sport. It might weigh a bit more, but I have total control of the flame size, and I don't have to carry an extra bottle for fuel (has a fuel tank).

www.spiritburner.com/collectors_chuck_wilkins_turmsport1.htm

[JAK]

I use the Kelly Kettle same as the ancient submariner PKH.
Still, it hasn't stopped me from playing with other stoves.

The Swiss Corked Flask stove can be picked up for $10 at an Army Surplus and is fun to mess with. (mind the pun)
http://west.loadup.com/military/surplus/12644.html

It is more compact than the Kelly and will fit in a Nalgene sized water bottle pouch and you can carry 1 litre of water in it. It is handy on ski trips as you can melt snow in the cup or melt the water in the flask if it has frozen. It is not as fast or efficient as the Kelly Kettle but the biggest drawback is it is very messy with all the soot on the outide. I will get a second one and keep it clean. I have used just a tealight with alcohol, olive oil, or beeswax in it with success. The alcohol is fastest. The others too slow or too smokey.

Ideally I would use alcohol when I wanted a fast and complete boil, and beeswax or oil tealights when I wanted to heat up a drink slowly while reading a book by the light from the opening. A nice trick is to use 3 beeswax tealights and add olive oil from a dropper bottle on top of the wax to use the wick and save the wax. The olive oil doubles as backup food and fuel supply. The 3/16 oz olive oil will burn in about 30 minutes with 3 wicks for 210 BTU which with some loss is enough to heat up 500ml of water while reading.

It would be interesting to build the perfect alcohol burner for this stove. I have never built an alcohol stove.

[atraildreamer]

I have 2 old SVEAs, but they don't work anymore. After they'd sat idle for 10 years, I tried to light them. They burned with a very weak flame like a candle, never did roar and burn like they should. I cleaned the jets and disassembled everything I could, but never got them working. Maybe the wick had deteriorated.

Try contacting these people: Packstoves@aol.com

This is from an email I got from them:

Optimus 8R Hunter packstove-The repair kit is $17.95.If you would like more information or would like to place an order, please give us a call at 714-258-2525.
----
I have an Optimus in need of repair. They probably have what you need for the Svea line.

[oops56]

The wick should be ok the filler cap needs new gasket plus did you peheat it

[SunnyWalker]

This week I switched to Trangia. Nothing dramatic here, I am at home, not on a hike. But have been talking, reading, studying and all. Why I switched: The alcohol that is needed is handier on places like the AT vs. the Esbitt (not handy at all), low cost to purchase the fuel, no moving parts, adjustable, works well. One other item-carrying the fuel around I found it does not smell like the Esbitt tabs did. No matter how good I wrapped them and the stove, it seemed like I could always smell dead fish. -SunnyWalker

[Superman]

I have a draw full of stoves. For me, it's sorted out to taking my home made alcohol stove if I'm hiking alone. If I hike with Pat we use the zip stove.

[Wise Old Owl]

Try contacting these people: Packstoves@aol.com

This is from an email I got from them:

Optimus 8R Hunter packstove-The repair kit is $17.95.If you would like more information or would like to place an order, please give us a call at 714-258-2525.
----
I have an Optimus in need of repair. They probably have what you need for the Svea line.

I agree the stove isn't pressurising. he has dry rot on the rubber seals on the filler cap and cannot prime. heavy stove too.

[pure_mahem]

My go to stove is a Trangia Westwind. I think it's durable as all get out. But, I love a good camp fire and will cook on an open fire given the chance vs. getting the fuel out and firing up the Trangia.

Pretty much boils down to if I'm on a hike by myself I use the Trangia. If I go car camping with my wife I use the campfire and carry a grill grate in the car to make things easy but chicken a la rock is very good!

[Frolicking Dino]

Other stove - Vargo Outdoors Triad Titanium alcohol stove (http://www.rei.com/product/752671?siteId=cjIsd2x-it3792&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rei.com%2Fproduct%2F752671&PID=2117609&cm_mmc=CJ-_-Aff-_-2117609-_-10456937&AID=10456937)

Nice compact design, Ti makes it crush-proof (a He-Dino concern), does not require a stand or pot holder (lower prongs can be stuck in ground for stability), and holds enough fuel (1.1 oz) to cook for two hungry Dinos and self primes.

http://media.rei.com/media/o/1111221.jpg

For cold weather, I have a MSR Whisperlite Internationale (http://www.rei.com/product/709000)

A great powerhouse multifuel stove, but heavy, noisy and gets soot everywhere.
http://media.rei.com/media/548650.jpg

[Jack]

Go-to stove is a 50-ish Svea 123.

Also have a Primus 96 & Primus 210, both great stoves, but
kerosene is ridiculously expensive in the PRC these days, so
they don't get out much anymore.

Dino - If you prime your whisperlite with alcohol instead of gas
99% of the soot goes away, unless your jet is quite worn...
A little piece of fiberglass mat rolled up in the priming cup makes
a good wick, as in easy to light.

:bandit:

[FireFighter56]

i use the Blue Mini from ultralight designs in warm weather ,Peak 1 canister stove for cold weather...and an army of homemade soda can stoves i made and don't like lol...also i broke down and ordered a kelly kettle the small one ...should be here in a week i'll do a review on youtube when i get it and test it out

[FireFighter56]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIPh9Pb0wkM

here is my review of the small kelly kettle for anyone thinking of getting one
Enjoy!!

[MRH]

I have the MSR whisperlite (retired), the MSR PocketRocket (use ever once in awhile) and made the Cat stove from this site(use all the time). still going to build the turbo-V8 and the ion stoves.

[CaSteve]

I have a Colman Exponent Powermax stove, Kelly Kettle (small), some army brass alcohol stove, a Brasslite alcohol stove, and a couple of pepsi can stoves. What I use depends on what I'm doing.

[rmorris]

I've been using the new EVERNEW DX Ti Alcohol/Wood stove for a few weeks now and I'm really liking it; Though you guys might be interested; A couple videos of it are on my blog:

Alcohol:
http://backpackbasecamp.blogspot.com/2010/04/evernew-ti-dx-alcohol-stove.html

Wood:
http://backpackbasecamp.blogspot.com/2010/05/evernew-ti-dx-backpacking-stove-burning.html

Robin

[Roche]

For little old me I use alcohol in a Vargo Titanium Triad to boil water in a Snow Peak Titanium Trek 700ml. Simple and light to prepare "bachelor food" - in a LemonJar add hot water to a Knorr, add chicken/tuna/salmon, mix, devour.

[SGT Rock]

For summer I've switched to a HKC pot with a Micron (Micro Ion) stove. For colder weather I still like the Ion with a real pot.

[JDBaughman]

I use an MSR Pocket Rocket. I want a whisper lite... But don't want to spend the money on it and the full set up


I liking that triad Ti alcohol stove. Looking into it right now... May get a new one ;)

[JDBaughman]

Thanks Iceman for the comments. Since we will be in NM in the Summer the homemade units should fit the bill and give the boys a project to work on.

Now a real novice question: what type of fuel do you all recommend and what do you carry it in? We will be on the trail for at least 12-13 days. I don't recall anyone mentioning a homemade product, so I have to assume you use a metal fuel bottle.

Thanks again for your sage advice.

Tom in Virginia Beach, VA

I used to live in Va Beach up until a year ago... I miss it... not the traffic on 64 though... especially the tunnel. Don't miss that at all.

[Cuffs]

I used to live in Va Beach up until a year ago... I miss it... not the traffic on 64 though... especially the tunnel. Don't miss that at all.

You do realize that post is from 2005, right?

[chumpchange]

warm it up.

i use a pocket rocket too when i don't build a fire. i took my dremel tool and made three small notches on the bottom of my msr cooking pot to fit the blades of the stove to keep it from sliding around so much.

[MonkeyBoy]

I use an MSR Pocket Rocket. I want a whisper lite... But don't want to spend the money on it and the full set up


I liking that triad Ti alcohol stove. Looking into it right now... May get a new one ;)

Picked up a used whisperlite on ebay for 25.00 (including shipping). Just had to buy the fuel bottle.

[JDBaughman]

You do realize that post is from 2005, right?

So...? I read it and threw my .02 in. Say, Why are you always thumbing my shit down? Who cares? Obviously it's not dead, people commented on it. And if someone comments on a post, it pops up in the active feed... so if it was old, and dead, Then it would have been deleted... ;)

[JDBaughman]

Picked up a used whisperlite on ebay for 25.00 (including shipping). Just had to buy the fuel bottle.

Wow?!? I cannot find deals like that at all...?

[Cuffs]

So...? I read it and threw my .02 in. Say, Why are you always thumbing my shit down? Who cares? Obviously it's not dead, people commented on it. And if someone comments on a post, it pops up in the active feed... so if it was old, and dead, Then it would have been deleted... ;)

Youre on the wrong site if you think things get deleted just because they are old. Read the rules... Why did I comment? Because Im pretty sure traffic and traffic patterns have changed from 2005 to 2012. That user that you quoted has not been on this site since March of 2005. Doubt hes going to read it and respond. Besides, this is a hiking site. Who cares about the traffic in VA Beach?

[JDBaughman]

Youre on the wrong site if you think things get deleted just because they are old. Read the rules... Why did I comment? Because Im pretty sure traffic and traffic patterns have changed from 2005 to 2012. That user that you quoted has not been on this site since March of 2005. Doubt hes going to read it and respond. Besides, this is a hiking site. Who cares about the traffic in VA Beach?

You actually kinda made my point for me, regarding the "dead" post. Secondly, I don't look to see when the last time someone posted or whatever. I don't care. I did a search, saw this thread, commented on it. I lived in VA Beach for several years and I thought it was cool that he was from there. And if youve been there, then you'd know that the traffic situation is something to talk about.

Anyways, I don't even know why I'm wasting my time explaining anything to you. You'll just reply with some other sarcastic ass comment to try and make a stupid point, that no one gives 2 fuckalls about. I saw it, commented on it, the world keeps spinning. Get over it.

...Moving on

I'm looking into alcohol stoves. they are interesting.

[cool breeze]

I like eggs. I hope UPS is on time or early today.

[JDBaughman]

Haha

[JDBaughman]

I like eggs. I hope UPS is on time or early today.

How is the traffic in your area?

[Hog On Ice]

well by the lack of dust in the air I think nobody has driven by in the last 15 minutes

[MonkeyBoy]

Wow?!? I cannot find deals like that at all...?

It was an auction. Just put in the price I was willing to pay, and anytime someone beat it, it would automatically upbid for me. Got the stove for 15.00 and 10.00 shipping certified.

[MonkeyBoy]

As far as alcky stoves, this is by far the easiest to make....

http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html

And pretty efficient to boot.

[SGT Rock]

I've got a brand new MSR Simmerlite never been used that I got for doing a beta test on the stoves years ago. I keep it around because I keep thinking that someday I might actually have a use for it but the reality is that I've been able to do all the cooking I have ever needed mostly on my alcohol stoves and the occasional camp fire, or when my wife comes a canister stove because when mamma wants her coffee it better be done ASAP.

[Big Mac]

Youre on the wrong site if you think things get deleted just because they are old. Read the rules... Why did I comment? Because Im pretty sure traffic and traffic patterns have changed from 2005 to 2012. That user that you quoted has not been on this site since March of 2005. Doubt hes going to read it and respond. Besides, this is a hiking site. Who cares about the traffic in VA Beach?

Wait a minute - this is a hiking site???

[Roche]

Wait a minute - this is a hiking site???
I hope not. I'm waiting for the weather and traffic on the eights.

[Bearpaw]

The Whisperlite is nice is you plan to do a lot of winter camping. Otherwise, the pocket rocket is lighter and simpler to use, with better of temperatures.

If you want to go light, alcohol or Esbit is the way to go.

[Cuffs]

It was an auction. Just put in the price I was willing to pay, and anytime someone beat it, it would automatically upbid for me. Got the stove for 15.00 and 10.00 shipping certified.

what the hell do you know about stoves? You dont even hike 100 miles a year!! sheesshhh...

[Hog On Ice]

+1 for Cuffs

[JDBaughman]

The Whisperlite is nice is you plan to do a lot of winter camping. Otherwise, the pocket rocket is lighter and simpler to use, with better of temperatures.

If you want to go light, alcohol or Esbit is the way to go.

Well I like the whisper lite because it's got a larger cooking area... I usually go out with another person and it's nice to use have one large stove so I can cook enough food for more than one person... quickly


But I'm really like'n the alcohol stoves... I have'duh get me one'a those

[JDBaughman]

Well I like the whisper lite because it's got a larger cooking area... I usually go out with another person and it's nice to use have one large stove so I can cook enough food for more than one person... quickly


But I'm really like'n the alcohol stoves... I have'duh get me one'a those

However, I could just use my MSR pot... And throw it over a fire...

[MonkeyBoy]

what the hell do you know about stoves? You dont even hike 100 miles a year!! sheesshhh...

Hiked 15 more than you last week.

[JDBaughman]

Check this alcohol stove out. So, I don't know much about them, but this one is the coolest one I have seen. First one is how to make it. Second one is of it in use.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXXxm1GosxQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTwy_EVubIY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Skidsteer]

Check this alcohol stove out. So, I don't know much about them, but this one is the coolest one I have seen. First one is how to make it. Second one is of it in use.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXXxm1GosxQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTwy_EVubIY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Very cool.

Now make a couple hundred different stove designs (http://zenstoves.net/Links.htm), spend a couple hundred bucks on specialty tools, make your wife drag you to counseling, and you might be ready to try a Tornado Wick Jet. And it will probably perform like shit in real trail conditions.

Start with the Supercat that Monkeyboy posted.

Somewhere between the Supercat and the Tornado Wick Jet, you'll develop a stove that fits your style of hiking and is actually lighter than a Pocket Rocket.

Have fun with it.

[Hog On Ice]

its a mighty slippery slope when one starts to make stoves - spend years making various stoves and finally realize that an unmodified tea light candle tin is just as good as all those other stoves

[sheepdog]

its a mighty slippery slope when one starts to make stoves - spend years making various stoves and finally realize that an unmodified tea light candle tin is just as good as all those other stoves

blasphemy!!

[Russell]

blasphemy!!


Hush, the rocket scientist has filed his final report after years of diligent study.

[Hog On Ice]

+1 for Russell

[JDBaughman]

4194

After putting those links on here... I decided to go outside and make one.. My first attempt and it actually burned quite nicely.

[Skidsteer]

Welcome to the dark side Luke.

[sheepdog]

he'll be picking "likely" cans out of the trash now.

[Skidsteer]

Before long He'll be stopping on the side of the road to collect them from the ditch.....

[sheepdog]

and he'll have boxes of them in his house.

[Skidsteer]

Now you've done stopped preachin' and gone to meddlin'.

[Bearpaw]

4194

After putting those links on here... I decided to go outside and make one.. My first attempt and it actually burned quite nicely.

Oh hell, brother! Turn back now, and get an Esbit stove while you still have your sanity.

[JDBaughman]

Aww you guys. Ur makin me blush

[dixicritter]

and he'll have boxes of them in his house.

When did you look in our garage? LOL

[saimyoji]

I had bags of stuff for makin' alky stoves in my shed.....till the ex got motivated....no idea what she did with it all, but along with a newly refurbished lawnmoyer....i'm guessing it all went to the dump. fuckin ho.....

[SGT Rock]

Seriously, listen to HOI. You will find a thousand variations on the burner all over the internet. What I found after making about 500 of them is the burner really doesn't matter much. They all basically do the same thing - burn alcohol. Some are hotter than others, and when you are coming from a gas stove background you intuitively think hotter is faster, faster is better. But if you do it long enough you realize that hotter uses more fuel faster to get slightly faster boil times. You begin to wonder if boiling water quickly is actually all that important, after all: if you are in such a big hurry, then why are you walking?

What most of us realize after a while the important factors are your pot, height the pot is above the stove, and the windscreen fitting into all that. Make your burner simple and tweak your stand for it so that your pot sits in the flame where the color of it just starts to turn to orange. Then make a windscreen that doesn't choke it out, but also is close enough to keep the heat in. Pots with larger bottoms are better than small bottoms and tall sides. And curved bottoms can be slightly better than flat bottoms. Anything more than that and you are just making stoves for the fun of it - and there ain't nothin' wrong with that.

[sheepdog]

You can never have enough stoves. Oops 56 is my hero. he has countless stoves.


Anyone heard from oops??

[JDBaughman]

Question; when I light My stove, after it warms up and the jet holes light, when I set my pot down, the flames die out...? I'm using denatured alcohol like I was told... Maybe it's not burning hot enough...? You think some HEET would be better...?

[sheepdog]

How much space between the pot and the stove? Are you using a wind screen? Is it getting oxygen?

[JAK]

Seriously, listen to HOI. You will find a thousand variations on the burner all over the internet. What I found after making about 500 of them is the burner really doesn't matter much. They all basically do the same thing - burn alcohol. Some are hotter than others, and when you are coming from a gas stove background you intuitively think hotter is faster, faster is better. But if you do it long enough you realize that hotter uses more fuel faster to get slightly faster boil times. You begin to wonder if boiling water quickly is actually all that important, after all: if you are in such a big hurry, then why are you walking?

What most of us realize after a while the important factors are your pot, height the pot is above the stove, and the windscreen fitting into all that. Make your burner simple and tweak your stand for it so that your pot sits in the flame where the color of it just starts to turn to orange. Then make a windscreen that doesn't choke it out, but also is close enough to keep the heat in. Pots with larger bottoms are better than small bottoms and tall sides. And curved bottoms can be slightly better than flat bottoms. Anything more than that and you are just making stoves for the fun of it - and there ain't nothin' wrong with that.Great post. Thanks Rock.

[SGT Rock]

Sounds like lack of oxygen. Which stove you using again?

[JDBaughman]

4200

This is the one I'm using... When I set the pot down on it, it goes for a minute an then one by one the jets die out... I was under the impression that the jets will continue to burn after you sit a pot on it. ...epic fail?

[SGT Rock]

You need more space between the burner and the pot bottom. I use stove stands myself, but you can make one like that which also serves as the stand. The problem is the most efficient part of the pot for heat exchange is the bottom, and with a stove like that you loose that surface for the most part because it is sitting on the cold part of the stove.

[JDBaughman]

UPDATE:


Decided to make a new stove. Cleaner. Nicer. Holes are drilled so the vapor flows through uninterrupted by bits of bent aluminum block the ports ECT. I measured all the pieces and cut them more precisely so everything fits together well. 4254

So after further research, I realized that the stove lights more efficiently if you "preheat" it. So I decided to use the lid cover from a mason jar and it works perfectly. 4255

Made a simple pot stand out of a clothes hangar and the paper tubing found on the clothes hanger to hold the hinge end together. I wrapped it with a heat "resisting" reflective tape. It will melt if put directly in fire, but seems to do fine a few inches away. I got the idea from Jeff's page @ www.tothewoods.net (homemade gear). 4256

I made a wind screen out of a piece of cardboard, wrapped with aluminum foil, and then taped with the same reflective heat "resisting" tape. It also sits in the bent legs of the pit stand to hold it in place. I used it this past weekend and the wind was not moving it around. This idea also came from www.tothewoods.net. 4257

For my pot I use my GSI Halulite Minimalist. Some people complain that the fire from the alkie stove will melt the lid, but I haven't had a problem with the lid at all. And I've found that, minus the file I splash on the preheat tray, it only takes an ounce to bring my pot with 2 cups to a boil right before it starts to go out. Not really a "rolling" boil, but a boil none the less. 4258


I'm very pleased with it. However, if I'm going with a group, I will use my gas stove so I can cook larger meals and control the heat better.


The best part is that everything fits inside my pot.

[SGT Rock]

You will make more stoves. It just works that way.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[JDBaughman]

Does preheating really matter? Is it not just the same as if I light the fuel directly in the main reservoir? It seems like it makes the alcohol vaporize more quickly...?

[SGT Rock]

Depends on the burner design. Some absolutely need. Yours really doesn't for most use. I do preheat a little under freezing temps. Most times it just wastes fuel. If you aren't getting a rolling boil with a whole ounce of fuel there is something needing tweaking.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[sheepdog]

I haven't built a stove in a couple months. I'm starting to get the itch again.

[Hog On Ice]

remember Sheepdog - one day at a time

[sheepdog]

hahahahahaha

[cool breeze]

Im done with building stoves.I love my Giga or a pocket rocket.

[JDBaughman]

I yea I gots my pocket rocket... But, I want something a little more chuck Norris-ish

[saimyoji]

I think the whole idea on alcohol stoves is cool. But when out for fun, I want my shit heated up quick. I use my GigaPower. If I'm in survival mode, or impress some doe-eyed city girl mode, I'll work some McGyver shit.

Coolest thing I heard about the Ion stoves was them being sent to 3rd world countries where folks didn't have the knowledge or materials to build them and no other means for cooking stoves...

...or maybe i'm just remembering something from a movie....

[cool breeze]

Dont get me wrong stoves were fun.Working at mountian Crossings I got to play with and build them all the time.You cant beat a gas stove for simplisity and convinience. If you're smart you can even make them work when it's cold.

[JDBaughman]

That's true

[Cuffs]

Im done with building stoves.I love my Giga or a pocket rocket.

Same here. That's the same two I have.

[SGT Rock]

I think it is a matter of preference. We own a canister stove for when my wife comes out hiking/camping because she wants things, and wants it ASAP. I like my alcohol stove and have used it in all 4 seasons for a number of years with no plan to ever switch. It is part of my regular camping rhythm.

[CaSteve]

Im done with building stoves.I love my Giga or a pocket rocket.

I agree. My Giga Stove is my primary stove for short trips.

[sheepdog]

Sometimes I bring two stoves just for fun.

[Kanga]

I like my alcohol stove and have used it in all 4 seasons for a number of years with no plan to ever switch. It is part of my regular camping rhythm.

ditto

[auburnbreeze]

Sometimes I bring two stoves just for fun.

I can think of several other ways to have fun.

[sheepdog]

I can think of several other ways to have fun.

do tell.........

[Hog On Ice]

is motorboating one of the ways?

[veteran]

Anybody have experience with the Vargo Titanium Triad Stove? 1 oz.


4269


4270


4271

[sheepdog]

Anybody have experience with the Vargo Titanium Triad Stove? 1 oz.


4269


4270


4271

bad stove ---save your money. Titanium sucks for heat conversion. I got three for free from a rep. I just keep them cause they're purdy.

[Skidsteer]

It's a lovely stand design. Love to try one made of aluminum.

[sheepdog]

This one is cool too.
http://www.vargooutdoors.com/Titanium-Decagon-Alcohol-Backpacking-Stove

doesn't burn for crap though.

[SGT Rock]

Kool factor for ti is about the only thing it has going. Bad if you really want it as a stove.

[Hog On Ice]

the Brasslite stoves were cool too - fortunately they actually worked - unfortunately they were heavier that the aluminum stoves