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Slim
2011-07-31, 13:46
You have hiked 20 miles into the mountain. Cell phone has no signal, map and GPS show no nearby town or road. You are starting to set up camp and fail to notice a copperhead camoflauged in the leaves. As you start to set up your hammock you step too close to the snake and it strikes you on the leg.

Scenario:
a) you have a snakebite kit and first aid kit
b) you only have your first aid kit
c) you have no snakebite kit or first aid kit

What would you do in each of these scenarios and whats your best chance of survival with b and c?

Big Mac
2011-07-31, 15:47
Here's what i would do in all three scenario's (same for all three) -

1. kill the damn snake just because it deserves it.
2 Reduce my pack to the bare minimum essentials.
3. Choose a route with the most likelyhood of meeting another person and start walking at a nice, steady, pace. (Not too fast)
4. Keep checking for a cell phone signal.

A quick prayer wouldn't hurt either, cause you might just be screwed.

Big Mac
2011-07-31, 15:49
Or was your whole post just a way to "troll" for an argument?

Slim
2011-07-31, 16:10
Nope. Just asking a question to see what peoples ideas are. That is the only thing I really worry about for 3 season hiking. Snakes are everywhere around where I live. My uncle killed a 5 foot rattlesnake that was behind his house this summer, and I have seen many copperheads and water mocassins when hiking in the past. I bought the extractor snakebite kit, but I think the poison will still get into your blood stream in the time it takes to get everything out and use it. I have read many things on treating a bite, but they all end in "seek medical help" which sometimes is an impossible option. Even if you were able to call for help I am not sure if they could get to you in heavily wooded mountains. So anyway, this was only to get you thinking and to see if anyway knew any old school remedies.

SGT Rock
2011-07-31, 16:28
I've seen lots of snakes and even came within inches of stepping on a copperhead last month cutting blow downs. I still don't carry a snake bite kit because everything I've read that is serious on the things says they are worthless.

If It happened to me I would find the shortest route out of the woods towards other people and try to make contact ASAP. I don't know that I would abandon food or gear, because if you cannot make it out within an hour or so, you may end up having to spend a night on the trail sick from the venom - but in that case I would lie right on the trail so anyone coming across me would have to see what is up.

Big Mac
2011-07-31, 17:16
I've seen lots of snakes and even came within inches of stepping on a copperhead last month cutting blow downs. I still don't carry a snake bite kit because everything I've read that is serious on the things says they are worthless.

If It happened to me I would find the shortest route out of the woods towards other people and try to make contact ASAP. I don't know that I would abandon food or gear, because if you cannot make it out within an hour or so, you may end up having to spend a night on the trail sick from the venom - but in that case I would lie right on the trail so anyone coming across me would have to see what is up.

I agree with you Rock - I wouldn't abandon everything either. If you are, in fact, 20 miles out there is a good chance you may have to hope for the best and spend a night on the trail. But I'd sure try to make that back as light as possible to keep my heartbeat from racing.

I also agree that I would lay right across the trail in the hope someone would find me. (hopefully still breathing) :beer:

JERMM
2011-07-31, 18:38
You have hiked 20 miles into the mountain. Cell phone has no signal, map and GPS show no nearby town or road. You are starting to set up camp and fail to notice a copperhead camoflauged in the leaves. As you start to set up your hammock you step too close to the snake and it strikes you on the leg.

Scenario:
a) you have a snakebite kit and first aid kit
b) you only have your first aid kit
c) you have no snakebite kit or first aid kit

What would you do in each of these scenarios and whats your best chance of survival with b and c?


none of the above...i carry a SPOT messenger...IMO that's what the 911 button is for

Bearpaw
2011-07-31, 20:01
Hydrate and walk out slowly. Typically a snakebite doesn't kill a healthy adult, particularly to a lower extremity. Remaining upright and moving slowly offers the best chance of slowing flow to more vital areas.

MonkeyBoy
2011-07-31, 23:27
1. Remove all constricting clothing and jewelry depending on where it bit you.
2. Slowly as possible, make my way to a road crossing.
3. If others were with me, I'd make a stretcher so as not to increase blood flow unnecessarily.

Do NOT :
1. Suck out the poison (your tongue is the most absorbent flesh and goes right into the blood stream)
2. Use snakebite kit (will cause more damage)
3. Cut wound to make it bleed out (will open veins and arteries allowing more poison into blood stream). The bite may or may not have entered the blood stream in the first
place, but cutting it will be a definate.
4. Use a torniquet (it will cut off blood flow to the limb and may cause you to loose the limb)

Most people don't realize that most snakes in the US take DAYS to kill you, if they kill you at all (most just make you sick and swell up).

Most snakes will not bite unless directly threatened (way to close, step on them, pick them up). Water mocassins are an exception to that rule (and the most common in my neck of the woods, unfortunately). They are just plain nuts and will actually hunt you down.

Oh, and BTW......saw a 7' rattlesnake this weekend that was about 6" in diameter. It wanted nothing to do with me and slithered off as quickly as it could.

Crikey
2011-08-01, 12:43
You need to clean the wound asap. Even if it's a dry bite the bacteria on the snake's fangs and mouth can cause a nasty infection.

enviro
2011-08-01, 13:05
I always thought you were supposed to jump around a lot. Curse the snake and it's species at a very high volume throw things at it. Stuff like that, then find someone to carry your stuff.

I'm just kidding. that's really bad advice that I just gave.

However the cursing part I would certainly do. Always heard that if you were in a place where you could sit and wait for rescue, which would be best to keep the heartrate down, to try and keep the bite below the heart.

SGT Rock
2011-08-01, 15:41
I remember something like big mac's number one, except it went: "Kill the snake, it will make you feel better"

chief
2011-08-01, 21:11
What's the big deal? At least, you're gonna die doing something you love. That's what everyone says when a hiker has died on the trail, right?

Sit down and enjoy it (after you've killed the snake). After all you could be home with people who care about you. Who want's that? When the pain gets really bad, just look at the beauty around you and quit yer sniveling! Soon enough your heart will be playing catch up to your poisoned blood. Don't worry it takes awhile to die, you'll have plenty of time to enjoy your surroundings through the convulsions. Isn't nature grand?

OR, you could get off your sorry ass and get out of the woods so someone can actually help you (again, after you've killed the snake). Live to hike another day!

JERMM
2011-08-01, 21:48
I remember something like big mac's number one, except it went: "Kill the snake, it will make you feel better"

and post pics of dead snake on WB...:albertein

rcli4
2011-08-01, 21:55
You have hiked 20 miles into the mountain. Cell phone has no signal, map and GPS show no nearby town or road. You are starting to set up camp and fail to notice a copperhead camoflauged in the leaves. As you start to set up your hammock you step too close to the snake and it strikes you on the leg.

Scenario:
a) you have a snakebite kit and first aid kit
b) you only have your first aid kit
c) you have no snakebite kit or first aid kit

What would you do in each of these scenarios and whats your best chance of survival with b and c?

stand in a relaxed position with your legs slightly wider then your shoulders. Bend over and bring your shoulders between your knees. Reach up and kiss your ass goodbye.

Clyde

Slim
2011-08-02, 16:58
stand in a relaxed position with your legs slightly wider then your shoulders. Bend over and bring your shoulders between your knees. Reach up and kiss your ass goodbye.

Clyde

lmfao

Nearly Normal
2011-08-02, 23:28
Don't get bit.

sheepdog
2011-08-03, 11:45
I would make sure I ate all my candy bars. I hate to die with an uneaten snickers bar.

Two Speed
2011-08-03, 12:21
I guess I'm all uptight, cuz I'd probably eat all my candy bars before kissing my ass goodbye.

SGT Rock
2011-08-03, 12:26
Drink alcohol to dilute the blood and the poison.

Crikey
2011-08-03, 13:27
Drink alcohol to dilute the blood and the poison.

Have a drink or two with the snake and work out your differences.

Ray
2011-08-03, 14:51
Drink alcohol to dilute the blood and the poison.Never know when you might get snakebit. It could happen at any time. It's best to stay prepared.

john pickett
2011-08-03, 18:13
Don't try to kill the snake, you may get bitten a second time. Do back up, sit down and tie a constriction band, Not a tourniquet, a few inches above the bite. (you can get a finger under a constriction band, but a tourniquet is too tight for that.) Evaluate how far to a first aid/ first responder. Doesn't have to be a hospital. A fire station, forest service lookout, sheriff's department will be a big help. or think if the trail has a lot of traffic, just sit and wait for someone to come by. If they can help, or go for help.

sheepdog
2011-08-03, 22:11
so let me see if I got this right.
1 kill the snake
2 eat your candy bars
3 drink your booze
4 try to get help

sheepdog
2011-08-03, 22:14
My Dad always said carry a deck of cards in the woods. They work for any emergency. You just start playing solitaire. Sooner or later someone comes by and says play the red four on the black five. You then can axe them for help.

Skidsteer
2011-08-03, 22:14
so let me see if I got this right.
1 kill the snake
2 eat your candy bars
3 drink your booze
4 try to get help

Seems like sex should at least get an honorable mention.

sheepdog
2011-08-03, 22:15
Seems like sex should at least get an honorable mention.

with the dead snake??

sheepdog
2011-08-03, 22:18
oh and we forgot

kiss your ass goodbye


which might qualify as sex

SGT Rock
2011-08-03, 22:19
with the dead snake??

Make sure you have duct tape.

sheepdog
2011-08-03, 22:20
Make sure you have duct tape.

hahahahahahahahaha

Skidsteer
2011-08-03, 22:21
Yeah, 'cause handcuffs ain't worth a shit when it comes to snakes.

Lugnut
2011-08-03, 22:35
That's your secret? Cuff 'em while they're feeling up the sweater. :adore:

fiddlehead
2011-08-04, 22:52
I've been inches from copperheads and rattlesnakes and yards from a cobra. Only ever had one be aggressive towards me, the rest squirmed away. The one that came at me was one of those green rattlers in the desert of Southern CA.
So, it's a hypothetical question as it's not something that's gonna happen to 99.9% of the people (unless you try to pick one up of course)

Anyway, here's what I (think I) would do:
I would guess that it's gonna hurt like hell.
So, I'd take an aspirin or two and try to clean it best I could.
If on the AT, you're not far from getting to a road.
If on the CDT, I think I'd just camp if water was nearby or maybe hike to water to clean it good.
If 20 miles out, I'd find a closer road. (Not many places are 20 miles from a road anymore)
Even in the "Bob", there are ranger stations throughout and help available.

I doubt you are gonna die unless it's a really big one. (or king cobra)

Crikey
2011-08-04, 23:03
So, it's a hypothetical question as it's not something that's gonna happen to 99.9% of the people (unless you try to pick one up of course)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObhvOeNCKhs

Superman
2011-08-04, 23:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObhvOeNCKhs

There's lots of kinds of stupid.

FranceyS
2011-08-28, 00:01
Hope this really helps people interested in helping themselves… <smile> FranceyS

How to survive a snake bite
WHAT TO DO when encountering a snake:
• STOP and stand still if you encounter a snake within striking distance... Stand like a statue or a tree. Yell for help loudly as snakes do not have ears and are 100% deaf. They also do not feel vibrations unless their heads are directly on the ground where the vibrations occur.

First Aid if snake-bit: PRESSURE IMMOBILISATION
The first aid for snake bite is relatively simple.
The methods of times gone by of 'suck and spit' or the use of tourniquets are long gone.
Developed by CSL, the company who make the anti-venines, Snake bite first aid is possibly the most progressive in the world.
The Pressure Immobilisation Technique, which involves
a) bandaging the affected site firmly with a crepe bandage,
b) bandaging the whole limb with another crepe bandage, and
c) immobilising the limb – in particular, immobilising the joints either side of the bite - in order to limit limb movement, restrict lymph flow and reduce venom absorption.

It is critical that the limb be immobilised, and not just bandaged.

a) Do not wash the wound.
b) Apply Compression Bandages:
The use of a compression bandage is paramount;
c) application of a firm bandage ( as firm as you would put on a sprained ankle) over a folded pad placed over the bitten area. While firm, it should not be so tight that it stops blood flow to the limb or congests the veins. Wider bandages are recommended rather than narrow to achieve a more constant pressure beginning at the bite site and continuing down the limb and then back to the top, towards and past the nearest joint closest to the torso.
d) Mark the location of the bite on the outside of the bandage.
Immobilize the joints and bandage as firmly as that for a sprain.

Splint the limb: A Splint is also recommended to prevent peristaltic return; venom is transported around the body in our lymphatic system not the blood stream. This is controlled by muscle movement, the use of a compression bandage and a splint reduces muscle movement and slows the progression of the venom.

Remain calm and still; DON'T MOVE. phone for an ambulance
Carry your cell phone with you in snake infested areas.
If no help or phone is available keep as calm as possible and use least amt of effort as possible to get help.

Do Not:
Do Not: Drive: Passing out is a common effect of snake bite
Do Not: Drink Alcohol: This can hamper the treatment process
Do Not: Take Drugs: Including painkillers, this hampers the treatment process
Do Not: Have the snake killed: Doctors do not need the snake to identify the type of antivenin to use, the use of a Snake Venom Detection Kit (SVDK) is now standard practice
Do Not: Apply a tourniquet: This cuts off circulation, and once removed shoots the venom directly to the liver like a bullet
Do Not: Cut the BITE wound: This can worsen the envenomation by adding VENOM directly to the blood stream

Rosaleen
2011-08-28, 18:57
The above was the only real advice to heed, IMHO.

One thing to add: write down the time and date of the bite, and note the bit location and type of snake, if at all possible. IF there is a responder available, s/he may be replaced along the chain of help and word-of-mouth is more likely to be garbled than a written communication. Make notes on an obvious part of the victim's clothing, perhaps. One first aid instructor suggested writing time of injury on the vic's forehead with a lipstick. Somehow, lipstick has not made it into my first aid kit, and I doubt any of you guys plan to carry one. At least, not that you'd admit... I don't always have a ball point pen and sure left the make-up out very early on. What you see is what you get...

Rosaleen

Two Speed
2011-08-29, 09:23
Small sharpie. Good for emergencies, and every now and again it comes in handy for causing trouble. :biggrin:

sheepdog
2011-08-29, 16:07
I still think you should eat all your snickers bars and maybe a sammich.

mudhead
2011-08-29, 19:30
Monkey Butt Boy had good advice re removing jewelry. Wouldn't do to have a ring on and then have your finger swell up like a schwanz.

Skidsteer
2011-08-29, 19:40
Monkey Butt Boy had good advice re removing jewelry. Wouldn't do to have a ring on and then have your finger swell up like a schwanz.

Hahaha! Schwanz.

Haven't heard that word in a while.

saimyoji
2011-08-29, 19:47
Hahaha! Schwanz.

Haven't heard that word in a while.

you're a shwanz....:aetsch:

Skidsteer
2011-08-29, 19:53
you're a shwanz....:aetsch:

True, but i'm not a pretentious schwanz...:biggrin:

MonkeyBoy
2011-08-29, 23:42
Monkey Butt Boy had good advice re removing jewelry. Wouldn't do to have a ring on and then have your finger swell up like a schwanz.

To think I might actually know something, even if I am a Monkey Butt Boy......

Hog On Ice
2011-08-29, 23:45
gee I wonder if Anti Monkey Butt (http://www.antimonkeybutt.com/) powder would work to ...

MonkeyBoy
2011-08-29, 23:48
not yet

chumpchange
2011-10-11, 22:56
so the 3 quick whistle blasts for emergency might be useful?

or would that be the = of someone's car alarm going off....