PDA

View Full Version : Hand Crank Radios



Ewker
2011-10-10, 13:23
Looking into getting one for emergencies. Just wondering if anyone has one or what brand you would recommend

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-10, 13:28
Too heavy

Jim Henderson
2011-10-10, 14:30
I own one of these hand crank radios and several of the hand cranked flashlights.

Right now I can't recall the brand name of any of them since they are at home.

The radio is about 10 years old and I think it was made by a company that originally designed them for Africa where batteries are a precious commodity. I even think it was assembled in Africa. It cost me about $50 US back then.

I do not see it on this webpage... http://www.ambientweather.com/emra.html

It is not for backpacking. It is a clear sea green plastic so you can see the workings. It is about the size of a man's lunch box and weighs maybe a pound or two. It has a beeg crank on the back and a solar cell on the top. It sstores the energy in a really big "clock spring" inside the case.

So far it has worked quite well on many camping trips. My only concern is that the spring is under quite a bit of tension. Even the sticker on the radio says it is dangerous if you abuse it.

It is AM/FM

Only some minor negatives other than size. Cranking lasts maybe half an hour or so. THe solar cell of course is highly dependent on light strength. There is a minor fluctuation of sound from the radio as the wound up spring drives the little generator inside. There is also a faint kind of crackle that is periodic, maybe every couple seconds. I suspect that there are noisy brushes on the generator.

I use it when car camping but I actually would prefer a similar size and weight battery unit since most of those have a better sound and you don't have to crank it up every half hour or so. But, batteries do add a lot to weight especially if it is D or C cell, which it probably would be for the quality of sound I prefer. I use it because of the novelty. Plus one of the guys who group camps has an old windup Phonograph, so I show him my hand crank radio to tell him they are the same concept ;^)

Now the flash lights are hit and miss. I think here you really get what you pay for. The more expensive Coleman flash works like a champ and has been reliable for the past 5 years or so. It also has three light level settings just by repeatedly pushing the button.

I bought two no name flashes for my boys maybe 3 years ago. They cost maybe 2 or 3 bucks. One just sitting on the shelf broke it's crank shaft sometime in the last year or so. No idea when but it was broken when we took it out of the box. So quality on the cheap China specials is suspect. All the flashes use a storage device like a capacitor instead of a big spring under tension.

Light from any of these flashes lasts several hours on a 1 minute cranking.

If you really need to know the brand I will look at it when I get home.

I do not see a big advantage to crank radios other than apocalyse situations, or looong camp outs. I use a pocket size AM/FM 3 AA battery radio to listen to late late late night radio, all night. The batteries last several weeks in this kind of usage. A similar crank radio would probably weigh about the same and you would hae to rewind it frequently. But it would run forever when the aliens take over the planet and use up all the batteries on their toys.

Just my experiences,

Jim Henderson

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-10, 14:39
If it isn't for backpacking, they have hand cranked emergency radios that have flashlights built in.

The only reason I could see using one here is if a hurricane hit and supplies couldn't be found readily available.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-10, 14:40
I think I would rather look into a solar powered battery charger, myself.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-10, 14:43
Here's one that is dynamo cranked and solar charger with radio and light. Also runs on electrical outlet and regular batteries.

http://www.fitsmybudget.com/Dynamo-or-Solar-Powered-Emergency-Radio-Flashlight-Radio-Siren-FSH250-p-31468.html

Ewker
2011-10-10, 16:18
Jim, thanks for that link. They have quite a few listed. Now to find some reviews on them. I know REI carries some of the Eton so if it fails or breaks it can always go back to them

mudhead
2011-10-10, 17:39
I have broken several of the Eton types. Suck. They also had solar charging.

2 I returned to LL Bean the third I threw in the trash.

I dropped the third on a braided rug.

Suck. I wouldn't rely on one for a disaster situation either.

Lay in some Coppertops for a decent small radio.

Somewhere in there a relative wanted one as a gift. I paid full retail. It died. She thinks she killed it so won't return it.

Suck.

sheepdog
2011-10-10, 20:07
I have broken several of the Eton types. Suck. They also had solar charging.

2 I returned to LL Bean the third I threw in the trash.

I dropped the third on a braided rug.

Suck. I wouldn't rely on one for a disaster situation either.

Lay in some Coppertops for a decent small radio.

Somewhere in there a relative wanted one as a gift. I paid full retail. It died. She thinks she killed it so won't return it.

Suck.
I agree. We sold these wind up radios at the sporting goods store I worked at. They always came back.

Superman
2011-10-10, 20:09
I agree. We sold these wind up radios at the sporting goods store I worked at. They always came back.

I have the one from LL Bean and it sucked from day one.

Wise Old Owl
2011-10-10, 21:11
Why does one even need a wind up - if the radio was without it, one would realize the poor quality of the radio. Its useless - without a decent antenna...

Lets take this to the next level..

Most folk pay for cable, Verizon Vios, or some other carrier... IF you are within a circle of 30 miles from a TV transmitter, your TV draws 100 watts - a CFL light draws 17.5watts so a 200-300 watt inverter for 12v to 115 vac and a deep cycle 12 volt - much like one from a small Jazzy electric chair can be used to power a HDTV & a light for most of the night!

Trickle charger is needed and an inverter to bring the battery back up..

Here's the circuit....http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/wiring.jpg

Here's what is under the TV without the concealment box

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/DSCF4223-1.jpg

Wise Old Owl
2011-10-10, 21:18
Yep that battery inverter has a 12volt box jack to charge three cell phone at the same time when the power fails for long periods of time....

Don't forget the Antenna must be connected by rabbit ears or antenna in the attic, avoid RG59 poor quality cable used by the cable company - use a pre-made RG6 for best picture quality.

Once you get the HD Tv system set up - the cable or box is connected to the av or HDMI jack and the antenna is connected to the Coax jack

Now search for stations. Its going to save them ,,,

You are set!

Hooch
2011-10-10, 22:20
http://www.usarmysignalcorps.com/gn58.JPG

SGT Rock
2011-10-10, 22:24
They advertise one on coast to cost am all the time. I don't pay enough attention to it to remember what brand.

Wise Old Owl
2011-10-10, 23:11
That not exactly UL or Hikeable either

Cuffs
2011-10-10, 23:40
That not exactly UL or Hikeable either

If I read correctly, Ewker never said he wanted it for hiking, only emergencies. If I'm not mistaken, that negates any weight issues.

Two Speed
2011-10-11, 07:26
Why does one even need a wind up . . .

Now search for stations. Its going to save them ,,,

You are set!But this was a good set up for backpacking, no? :bandit:

Ewker
2011-10-11, 10:19
They advertise one on coast to cost am all the time. I don't pay enough attention to it to remember what brand.

I remember Art Bell pushing those radios all the time. Like you I have no idea which brand it was.


If I read correctly, Ewker never said he wanted it for hiking, only emergencies. If I'm not mistaken, that negates any weight issues.


glad someone realized that


After looking through a lot of reviews on them it seems most folks don't think they are that great. Handles breaking and cheap construction were the biggest complaints.

Back to the drawing board

warraghiyagey
2011-10-11, 10:31
You can buy a battery radio that is about 1/4 the weight and 1/4 the size at the dollar store. . . for about ummmm. . . . a dollar. .. . that works just fine and the battery lasts seemingly forever. . .. :beer:
and straps to your arm, or wherever. . .

Big Mac
2011-10-11, 12:26
If the grid goes down, radio won't do shit for you anyway. Just sayin' . . .

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-11, 12:36
Most radio stations have generators that you wouldn't believe........

Toured a radio station with the scouts here locally. They run about five stations out of one building.

They had huge generators in the back. The computer room was as big as my house. Every computer ran a station, and every computer had a backup computer that automatically switched over if the first went down. The backup computer had another backup computer that automatically switched over if the backup computer went down.

If all three computers for that station went down, it automatically switched over to a backup backup computer in another town 45 miles away. And the backup location had three computers to backup the primary location..........with their own massive generator system.

If anything is going to stay operational, it will be a radio station. Guaranteed.

Ewker
2011-10-11, 12:42
Most radio stations have generators that you wouldn't believe........

Toured a radio station with the scouts here locally. They run about five stations out of one building.

They had huge generators in the back. The computer room was as big as my house. Every computer ran a station, and every computer had a backup computer that automatically switched over if the first went down. The backup computer had another backup computer that automatically switched over if the backup computer went down.

If all three computers for that station went down, it automatically switched over to a backup backup computer in another town 45 miles away. And the backup location had three computers to backup the primary location..........with their own massive generator system.

If anything is going to stay operational, it will be a radio station. Guaranteed.



I can believe that. You can pickup an AM radio signal damn near anywhere in the US.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-11, 12:47
When asked why they had so much redundancy in the radio station, the engineer stated that dead air is lost money.

The engineer is a really cool guy......takes his time out to let us tour the station on a Saturday (his day off). He's taking us on another tour in four months. The kids get a kick out of it and he loads them up with stickers and posters and whatnot.

SGT Rock
2011-10-11, 20:18
Now I remember, C Crane: http://www.ccrane.com/

I don't know if they are any good.

Wise Old Owl
2011-10-11, 20:30
Sgt Rock being a ham - most of the C cranes look like Grundig's from a few years ago... I am a huge fan and have two of the SW's in the above webpage.... There is a darn good chance that both companies are asking Japan or South Korea to manufacture to their expectations under their brands. I don't have time to back it up but I have seen this before as I sometimes contribute to the biggest SW mag out there - Monitoring Times out of Brasstown North Carolina.

Wise Old Owl
2011-10-11, 20:31
Monkeyboy - good post - good info!

Wise Old Owl
2011-10-11, 20:50
If I read correctly, Ewker never said he wanted it for hiking, only emergencies. If I'm not mistaken, that negates any weight issues.

We are on the same page - hence my post about going up to a HDTV - perhaps even solar powered - This system was slapped together by raiding a wheelchair, crappy wires and a caravan outside during the last hurricane.


But this was a good set up for backpacking, no? :bandit:

Sorry you missed the point of the thread. Most radios are poor choices for hiking.. this is not an opinion - this is fact. A portable radio 20 years ago had a decent antenna and a 1st I.F. Filter. That filter knocked out adjacent stronger Am channels or Fm... Today when you move down the trail with a crank up you will hear a station and then as you cross a ridge - a different station, or it flutters back and forth between them... making that channel useless. So you go up a station and it happens again... Now you know why.... Missing circuits to cut costs.

Also your headphones are the combined antenna that for-fills the FM reception - wrap it or not extend it - screws the incoming signal

There are few pieces of portable radio that are available that would address the issues I have described here. Also I am giving a non-tech gloss of the details to the problems.... So if you are a radio enthusiast - understand I wrote this for a different audience.

Two Speed
2011-10-11, 21:59
. . . Sorry you missed the point of the thread. . . You funny guy. I like you.

Skidsteer
2011-10-11, 22:04
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/acsskidsteer/Youfunnyguy.jpg

ki0eh
2011-10-11, 22:17
I got the smallest $29 or so RadioShack Red Cross crank + solar radio with weather band. It was cheaper than the weather only radio and fit better in the pack. I have taken it on weekend backpack trips. It's survived for a couple of years now.

Jim Henderson
2011-10-12, 13:01
Today when you move down the trail with a crank up you will hear a station and then as you cross a ridge - a different station, or it flutters back and forth between them... making that channel useless. So you go up a station and it happens again... Now you know why.... Missing circuits to cut costs.



Yeah, there are almost no electronics in my crankup radio. A 3x5 inch pc card with maybe 1 or two ICs and a few transistors and misc components. Not a complicated design by any means. Most of the cabinet is empty. Maybe 1/3 of the space is taken up by the beeg spring, winder, gear set and generator. The board and radio type components take up almost no space. If for some reason the manufacturer wanted to put in batteries, you could probably fit in 6 or 8 D Cells, that is how much open space is there, even with the windup gear.

I cannot see the circuit board in detail since the component side is facing the gear set and not easily visible thru the clear plastic case. I would suspect the design is for simplicity and price, not performance.

But, it has pulled in signals in remote places where I would not expect to do so. Most of my use was when I lived in Oregon and camped at Harriet Lake on Mt. Hood. Very isolated and down between the mountains.

BTW it is name branded Freeplay, made in South Africa.

It would not be my choice for backpacking or emergency situations or even normal day to day use. Like I said before, it is more a novelty for me.


Jim Henderson

Weary
2011-10-12, 13:12
I have the one from LL Bean and it sucked from day one.
As did mine

Crikey
2011-10-12, 16:04
If the grid goes down, radio won't do shit for you anyway. Just sayin' . . .

Commercial radio, maybe.

Hams have wet dreams about this scenario.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-12, 16:08
Actually, satellite radio would still work as well.

Superman
2011-10-12, 16:10
Actually, satellite radio would still work as well.

The aliens will shoot the satellites down. Just sayin.:angel:

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-12, 16:18
I didn't know we had Mexicans in space........

Big Mac
2011-10-12, 16:34
Actually, satellite radio would still work as well.

Depends on WHY the grid went down . . .

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-12, 16:45
If the whole world went down, you'd have other problems to worry about than listening to the radio.

It would be pretty evident as to what is going on..... :)

Big Mac
2011-10-12, 16:55
If the whole world went down, you'd have other problems to worry about than listening to the radio.

It would be pretty evident as to what is going on..... :)

Luckily, we all have ipods now. :albertein

Superman
2011-10-12, 16:56
Luckily, we all have ipods now. :albertein

Um...no...some of us still use rotary dial phones.:argh:

Big Mac
2011-10-12, 16:58
Um...no...some of us still use rotary dial phones.:argh:

Damn, Lugnut must be right about you . . .

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-12, 17:04
http://www.dreamstime.com/plastic-cup-telephone-thumb1438360.jpg

Superman
2011-10-12, 17:06
Damn, Lugnut must be right about you . . .

Whats that wicked old guy saying about me....that I'm technologically challenged. Fuck him....my eight track works just fine.:angel:

chumpchange
2011-10-12, 17:10
....

Crikey
2011-10-12, 17:19
....

When we were having time out issues in our South Africa office, in my research into their infrastructure I actually ran into this.

They sent test packets from one ISP to another, and at the same time released a carrier pigeon. The bird won.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8248056.stm

Big Mac
2011-10-12, 17:31
Whats that wicked old guy saying about me....that I'm technologically challenged. Fuck him....my eight track works just fine.:angel:


Told my son once that I remembered listening to a certain song on 8 track. He said "what's 8 track?". I said "never mind".

Sent from my BlackBerry 8530 using Tapatalk

Superman
2011-10-12, 18:02
Told my son once that I remembered listening to a certain song on 8 track. He said "what's 8 track?". I said "never mind".

Sent from my BlackBerry 8530 using Tapatalk

What ever that is.:argh:

Lugnut
2011-10-12, 18:42
Damn, Lugnut must be right about you . . .

Yep. :aetsch:

Superman
2011-10-12, 18:48
Yep. :aetsch:

You should show some respect for your elders. (I know that you're older than me.):bootyshak

Lugnut
2011-10-12, 19:19
You should show some respect for your elders. (I know that you're older than me.):bootyshak

Nobody believes that! And yes, I do respect you. Just the proper way I was raised up. :angel:

Superman
2011-10-12, 20:43
Nobody believes that! And yes, I do respect you. Just the proper way I was raised up. :angel:

Only women lie about their age.....just sayin.:angel:

Lugnut
2011-10-12, 20:51
Well I am an admitted lesbian so I'm covered. :aetsch:

Superman
2011-10-12, 20:56
Well I am an admitted lesbian so I'm covered. :aetsch:

LMAO, eggzkly:beer:

warraghiyagey
2011-10-13, 08:45
Well I am an admitted lesbian so I'm covered. :aetsch:

There's alot more of us out there than you would think.. . :beer:

Ewker
2011-10-13, 13:38
I went ahead and bought one from REI using the 20% coupon. If it dies it goes back to REI and I get my money back

Footslogger
2011-10-13, 20:36
Looking into getting one for emergencies. Just wondering if anyone has one or what brand you would recommend

============

I've had one for years. Has a crank and a small solar panel built into the handle. Keep it in the truck and have used it a lot. Has battery compartment too (like 4 "D" size) but they generally run down before I need them ....so I quit feeding it batteries. On a sunny day I can play the radio (AM/FM) non-stop with excellent reception.

'Slogger

Weary
2011-10-17, 18:20
Whats that wicked old guy saying about me....that I'm technologically challenged. Fuck him....my eight track works just fine.:angel:
So does mine. Or it did when I stashed it away a few decades ago. I found it hard to find new tapes, so graduated to cassettes. That's the trouble with this new stuff. Why it's been years since I've found a new LP. Or a new cassette for that matter. Don't they make new recordings anymore?

I keep hearing about DVD's and CD's. Does anyone know what they are?

Skidsteer
2011-10-17, 18:35
I keep hearing about DVD's and CD's. Does anyone know what they are?

Old technology. The latest thing is to download mp3's online. Then you jump in this new cloud thing and all those songs show up on every electronic gadget you have with wi-fi.

DVD's and CD's make great substitutes for clay pigeons.

Tin Man
2011-10-17, 18:44
There's alot more of us out there than you would think.. . :beer:

sometimes sacrifices must be made in order to keep the piece....

Tin Man
2011-10-17, 18:45
Old technology. The latest thing is to download mp3's online. Then you jump in this new cloud thing and all those songs show up on every electronic gadget you have with wi-fi.

DVD's and CD's make great substitutes for clay pigeons.

slacker

Tin Man
2011-10-17, 18:49
Um...no...some of us still use rotary dial phones.:argh:

you might consider an upgrade...

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/ksc/lowres/kscn2075l.jpg

Superman
2011-10-17, 20:03
you might consider an upgrade...

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/ksc/lowres/kscn2075l.jpg

My heavy, black, rotary phones were my upgrade.:beer:

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-17, 23:58
Who remembers the bag phone?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_S7BWaLRnKwk/SQvKhP2ZmYI/AAAAAAAACkA/A2vXF_fUx4o/s400/motorola-bag-phone.jpg

Cuffs
2011-10-17, 23:59
Oh hell yea! 1988!

Wait scratch that. 1988 was the year of the motorola grey brick.

Tin Man
2011-10-18, 00:06
Who remembers the bag phone?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_S7BWaLRnKwk/SQvKhP2ZmYI/AAAAAAAACkA/A2vXF_fUx4o/s400/motorola-bag-phone.jpg

that's modern hardware. we had a lady in a branch office who didn't understand where to put the phone after she dialed the modem line and heard the high pitched squeal...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Acoustic_coupler_20041015_175456_1.jpg/220px-Acoustic_coupler_20041015_175456_1.jpg

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-18, 00:06
And that was the small bag phone........

The first generation was even bigger.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-18, 00:07
that's modern hardware. we had a lady in a branch office who didn't understand where to put the phone after she dialed the modem line and heard the high pitched squeal...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Acoustic_coupler_20041015_175456_1.jpg/220px-Acoustic_coupler_20041015_175456_1.jpg

I used the hell out of those in the eighties......

Tin Man
2011-10-18, 00:24
http://www.urigeller.com/pics/e14.jpg

we had a computer room operator who got so frustrated with mounting one of these tapes that he gave up, threw it on the floor and literally started stomping the shit out of it while yelling 'there, you can't give me trouble any longer!'

Superman
2011-10-18, 06:36
I had a car phone in the 80s. I can't remember the exact date. It had a big box in the trunk and it only worked in the DC area. I absolutely hated it. I did not like them being able to calll me when I was mobile.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-18, 09:19
I had a car phone..........

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/2557591090_3be59a6c7d_z.jpg?zz=1

Superman
2011-10-18, 09:24
sell fones are invasive and will never catch on. I've been saying that for years.:argh:

warraghiyagey
2011-10-18, 09:28
sell fones are invasive and will never catch on. I've been saying that for years.:argh:

agreed. . . it's just a fad....

Superman
2011-10-18, 09:32
agreed. . . it's just a fad....

Why in the world would someone want to shut out the world by hiding in a cell phone?:argh:

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-18, 09:34
sell fones are invasive and will never catch on. I've been saying that for years.:argh:

I used to sell phones.......

http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/1805/9406/c22a_1_thumb200.jpg

Superman
2011-10-18, 09:45
Regular folks used to talk to each other. Now you get a dirty look if you say anything because the other person has a cell phone at their ear...or worse....they have those hands free thingies. I've had people look right at me and say something so I had every reason to believe I was being spoken to. When I acknowledged the other person I was looked at like I'd proposed sex or something. All people who use cell phones are anti social, narcissistic and crazy.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-18, 09:52
But they are convenient......

http://vulcanicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/funnypic/pack04/Cell_Phone_Cam.jpg

Tin Man
2011-10-18, 11:23
I sell VoIP phones... and get $6/phone/month... forever... for doing nada, my speciality :D

Crikey
2011-10-18, 12:32
http://www.urigeller.com/pics/e14.jpg

we had a computer room operator who got so frustrated with mounting one of these tapes that he gave up, threw it on the floor and literally started stomping the shit out of it while yelling 'there, you can't give me trouble any longer!'

I still use punch cards for my code.


Not really.

Ewker
2011-10-18, 13:03
Regular folks used to talk to each other. Now you get a dirty look if you say anything because the other person has a cell phone at their ear...or worse....they have those hands free thingies. I've had people look right at me and say something so I had every reason to believe I was being spoken to. When I acknowledged the other person I was looked at like I'd proposed sex or something. All people who use cell phones are anti social, narcissistic and crazy.

most folks I know want to have a conversation just by texting. screw that after 2 text messages I call them.

Jim Henderson
2011-10-18, 14:04
Who remembers the bag phone?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_S7BWaLRnKwk/SQvKhP2ZmYI/AAAAAAAACkA/A2vXF_fUx4o/s400/motorola-bag-phone.jpg

Ah the modern compact version. I have the Radioshack(I think a relabel of Nokia or Johnson).

It is a verticle style where the handpiece hung on the side. Don't have a picture but It was about the size of a construction workers lunch box and weighed as much as 10 bean and cheese burritos. The battery pack hung onto the back side and weighed something like 6 pounds all by itself. I still have the whole thing and it works but since they changed the cellular signals it doesn't connect.

Also have one of those modems 110/300 baud(NovaCat), yeah baby. Almost was tempted to get me a papertape reader, hand pulled of course, who could afford the motor driven readers? But I went modern with Cassette tape readers.

My prized possession when I was in the U was my stack of Hollerith punch cards holding the programs I had written as assignements that last quarter of school. When Finals week was over, somehow I left my prized stack behind in the lecture hall.

Ah well, at least I am into playing with space age Vacuum tubes now. My latest project is to resuscitate a Zenith H500 Transoceanic. Works but needs new caps.

Jim Henderson

Tin Man
2011-10-18, 15:39
most folks I know want to have a conversation just by texting. screw that after 2 text messages I call them.

i love my text messages from my clients, for example:

them: I can't logon to the servar. what's wrong?

me: you spelled server wrong

Tin Man
2011-10-18, 15:41
most folks I know want to have a conversation just by texting. screw that after 2 text messages I call them.

i like when they text in front of me and i ask why don't you just call them AND they respond, that would be rude to talk to them when i'm with you.... ummmm, hello

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-18, 15:52
i love my text messages from my clients, for example:

them: I can't logon to the servar. what's wrong?

me: you spelled server wrong


Got a text yesterday.

them : what do you think of Internet 9?

Me : never heard of 'em.

them : you've never heard of Internet 9? You the IT guy!

Me : never heard of 'em.

Them : Internet Explorer 9?

Me : Oh.......IE9. Yeah, it's fine. No bugs that I know of. Next time say IE9 or Internet Explorer 9, not Internet 9. There's only one internet.

Them : Thanks! What would I do without you?

Me : You'd still be running IE8.

Crikey
2011-10-18, 16:01
Me : You'd still be running IE8.

http://www.oldversion.com/Netscape.html

Footslogger
2011-10-18, 20:34
[QUOTE=sherrill;260096]I still use punch cards for my code.

==========

that looks like Charlie Sheen. I didn't know he was into computers.

'Slogger