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woodsy
2011-10-19, 09:49
Land owner Roxeanne Quimby who is proposing to give land for a National Park in northern Maine apologizes to the states people for disparaging remarks she made about them during an interview with Forbes magazine..
She is not a native of the state.


In the interview, Ms. Quimby goes out of her way to mention Maine’s aging population, obesity rate, Oxycontin abuse and refers to Maine as a “welfare state” because of the receipt of federal funds.

Heres the link to her apology

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/10/18/opinion/quimby-on-maine-a-sincere-apology/

Not impressed , hopefully her park plans go away too.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-19, 09:54
I don't understand.

She is a private individual who is DONATING land to the National Park.
She is not creating the park, the National Park Service would.
She is exercising her Right to Freedom of Speech.
And the land is being given away.

Who really cares what she said, especially if it's true?

The only one I see losing in this is the State of Maine.

Kanga
2011-10-19, 10:15
I don't understand.

She is a private individual who is DONATING land to the National Park.
She is not creating the park, the National Park Service would.
She is exercising her Right to Freedom of Speech.
And the land is being given away.

Who really cares what she said, especially if it's true?

The only one I see losing in this is the State of Maine.

:dito:

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-19, 10:22
And don't get me wrong.....I'm not saying that I agree with her.

I'm just saying who cares what anyone says if she is donating the land to the state or country.

People get in a tizzy over some of the silliest things.

And even if it will be named after her......in five to ten years, no one will remember her. We have a ton of parks around here named after people. I couldn't tell you who the majority of them were. Some politician from days gone by that made it his little pet project to pass on some kind of legacy. Whatever. I go to the park to go to the park, not remember some politician from back in the 60's.

We had the same problem with the high school I attended. It was named Dixie M. Hollins High School after the first superintendant of schools in our county. It went by "Dixie" for short.

Everyone was up in arms, claiming it to be racist and disrespectful, etc.....when it was the guy's name.

Now, naming the mascot the Rebels probably wasn't the best thing to do, but what the heck else would you call the mascot of a school named Dixie? The Dixie Wolverines? Then it would be a wolverine wearing a confederate cap........

But I digress..........

My feelings.....if she wants to donate land..........LET HER. Even if she's said a slew of stupid crap (which I feel that she probably has, which is why everyone else is up in arms). What better satisfaction can you have than to legally take something away from a dumbass???

If she wanted to give me a buttload of land, she can call me whatever the heck she wants. Just don't call me late for dinner.

Big Mac
2011-10-19, 10:31
And don't get me wrong.....I'm not saying that I agree with her.

I'm just saying who cares what anyone says if she is donating the land to the state or country.

People get in a tizzy over some of the silliest things.

And even if it will be named after her......in five to ten years, no one will remember her. We have a ton of parks around here named after people. I couldn't tell you who the majority of them were. Some politician from days gone by that made it his little pet project to pass on some kind of legacy. Whatever. I go to the park to go to the park, not remember some politician from back in the 60's.

We had the same problem with the high school I attended. It was named Dixie M. Hollins High School after the first superintendant of schools in our county. It went by "Dixie" for short.

Everyone was up in arms, claiming it to be racist and disrespectful, etc.....when it was the guy's name.

Now, naming the mascot the Rebels probably wasn't the best thing to do, but what the heck else would you call the mascot of a school named Dixie? The Dixie Wolverines? Then it would be a wolverine wearing a confederate cap........

But I digress..........

My feelings.....if she wants to donate land..........LET HER. Even if she's said a slew of stupid crap (which I feel that she probably has, which is why everyone else is up in arms). What better satisfaction can you have than to legally take something away from a dumbass???

If she wanted to give me a buttload of land, she can call me whatever the heck she wants. Just don't call me late for dinner.

Too long, should have stuck with your first post. I actually read it. :bike:

woodsy
2011-10-19, 10:36
Fact is she wasn't getting the overwhelming support she thought she would so she turned to name calling .

A Nat park in any area has far reaching consequences. They not only have say what goes on within the boundaries of the park but within a 50 miles radius of the park.

Not much political support here for giving this land to the feds.

http://www.pressherald.com/news/interior-secretary-gathers-views-on-proposed-new-park-in-maine_2011-08-19.html

Two Speed
2011-10-19, 11:16
Too long, should have stuck with your first post. I actually read it. :bike:Fatigued monkey syndrome, maybe?

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-19, 11:20
I don't know. It sounds like there is more going on than what is being posted, and all of it sounds like it is a mountain out of a molehill.

It creates a park. It creates jobs. It would bring tourists, which means more money into the local economy. Which means more businesses created to cater towards said tourists.......

Like I said......sounds like the only ones losing out is the state of Maine.

Lone Wolf
2011-10-19, 11:26
truth hurts sometimes

Weary
2011-10-19, 11:27
I don't understand.

She is a private individual who is DONATING land to the National Park.
She is not creating the park, the National Park Service would.
She is exercising her Right to Freedom of Speech.
And the land is being given away.

Who really cares what she said, especially if it's true?

The only one I see losing in this is the State of Maine.
What she said in Forbes wasn't very politic, but contains some superficial truths. Roxanne's challenge is to overcome the dream of many that the woods and paper industries will return to their former splendor.

That's very unlikely seeming as how the former owners first sold the lands that provided their raw materials, and now have all sold their mills, mostly to junk companies eking the final dollars of profit out of the mill machinery. The woodlands of Maine are now too valuable to be used for growing trees. For too many years, Maine tended to have a very high graduation rate from high school , and a very low college graduation rate. Young people tended to go directly from high school to the mills.

That's impossible any more as mill employment has plummeted.

The recession has slowed development of luxury recreation complexes but the past won't return.

Access to the woods by most people will depend on the Roxanne Quimbys donating land for parks, state and federal land protection programs, and the efforts of conservation groups who have purchased a million acres over the years.

Gaiter
2011-10-19, 11:34
is this the burt's bee lady?
my understanding of the controversy is that she slowly bought up a bunch of hunting land, and once she gives it as a park then the hunters can't use the land at all (which they can't use now that she has bought it anyways) and once the land is handed over to the government, then the epa can also regulate industrial and other activities near the park that affect the scenic views of the park.

so basically hunters and people who want to destroy the environment are mad,

I also understand she isn't that popular because burts bees started in maine, but she closed down and moved the operation to nc

Weary
2011-10-19, 11:49
is this the burt's bee lady?
my understanding of the controversy is that she slowly bought up a bunch of hunting land, and once she gives it as a park then the hunters can't use the land at all (which they can't use now that she has bought it anyways) and once the land is handed over to the government, then the epa can also regulate industrial and other activities near the park that affect the scenic views of the park.

so hunters and people who want to destroy the environment are mad,

I also understand she isn't that popular because burts bees started in maine, but she closed down and moved the operation to nc
Unlike Pennsylvania and some other states, Maine never used federal dollars that were available over many decades to buy public hunting preserves.

Rather we relied on private landowners to allow public hunting. Roxanne bought some of this private land and restricted hunting and motorized access, creating enemies. Her plan from the beginning has been to give the land to the government.

Her ideas in the beginning were a bit fuzzy. Once when a reporter asked if she wanted national park or a national forest, she replied, "Is there any difference."

But she's bright and has learned a lot since then.

Two Speed
2011-10-19, 11:52
is this the burt's bee lady?Ayup, sure is.

woodsy
2011-10-19, 11:55
Shes obviously a lot brighter than a bunch of old and fat , drug addicted, welfare people who reside here, according to her remarks. POMPOUS might be a good description of her.

Tin Man
2011-10-19, 13:23
Fatigued monkey syndrome, maybe?

nah, he was trolling for weary... looks like it worked

Tin Man
2011-10-19, 13:29
Shes obviously a lot brighter than a bunch of old and fat , drug addicted, welfare people who reside here, according to her remarks. POMPOUS might be a good description of her.

pompous people in maine?!? say it ain't so!

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-19, 13:57
is this the burt's bee lady?
my understanding of the controversy is that she slowly bought up a bunch of hunting land, and once she gives it as a park then the hunters can't use the land at all (which they can't use now that she has bought it anyways) and once the land is handed over to the government, then the epa can also regulate industrial and other activities near the park that affect the scenic views of the park.

so basically hunters and people who want to destroy the environment are mad,

I also understand she isn't that popular because burts bees started in maine, but she closed down and moved the operation to nc

So basically, people got their panties in a wad and don't want to accept a free donation of a large tract of land........

Land that would increase the economy, decrease the unemployment and bring more attention to the community.

Like I said........the only ones losing out is Maine.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-19, 13:59
Shes obviously a lot brighter than a bunch of old and fat , drug addicted, welfare people who reside here, according to her remarks. POMPOUS might be a good description of her.

So you would rather punish her by making her sell it to someone else for a large profit?

Versus her giving it away and not making a dime?

Like I said........if you want to give me millions of dollars in land, you can dress me up, slap my ass and call me Sally.

Tin Man
2011-10-19, 14:05
So basically, people got their panties in a wad and don't want to accept a free donation of a large tract of land........

Land that would increase the economy, decrease the unemployment and bring more attention to the community.

Like I said........the only ones losing out is Maine.

hey, even inbreeds have a right to be wrong

woodsy
2011-10-19, 14:16
Whats stupid is she wants to give it to the federal govt, even a dumbass fat, old lazy inbred crackhead mainer on welfare knows thats dumb.

Hog On Ice
2011-10-19, 14:35
unless she wants the tax write off

Two Speed
2011-10-19, 14:41
nah, he was trolling for weary... looks like it workedI thought he was channeling. :angel:

Hog On Ice
2011-10-19, 14:56
more like tunneling

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-19, 15:09
Why is it wrong to donate land to the Federal Government?

They did it with the Smokey Mountain National Park.

One of the best parks in the country, IMHO.

Crikey
2011-10-19, 15:27
Why is it wrong to donate land to the Federal Government?

They did it with the Smokey Mountain National Park.



I don't think donate is the proper term in respect to this park - The Great Smokey Mountains National Park is the park I'm referring to.

Two Speed
2011-10-19, 15:52
more like tunnelingHadn't thought of it that way, but yeah, I could see that happening.

Kanga
2011-10-19, 16:28
Whats stupid is she wants to give it to the federal govt, even a dumbass fat, old lazy inbred crackhead mainer on welfare knows thats dumb.

Now, now. Don't be so hard on yourself.

SGT Rock
2011-10-19, 16:44
Is she any relation to mayor Quimby?

Weary
2011-10-19, 16:56
Whats stupid is she wants to give it to the federal govt, even a dumbass fat, old lazy inbred crackhead mainer on welfare knows thats dumb.
Would you prefer that she sell it to the government? Governments, like all human institutions, do wise things, and unwise things. Are you suggesting we should abolish the National Park System as an unwise experiment of the federal government? Or are you saying the creation of a federal government was an unwise creation of those dumb people that won the Revolutionary War, wrote the constitution, and fought to get it adopted.

Weary
2011-10-19, 17:00
I don't think donate is the proper term in respect to this park.
Well, if you prefer how about just "give away her land."

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-19, 17:07
Well, if you prefer how about just "give away her land."

I think she was referring to GSMNP, and how some had to be removed from their homes.

Crikey
2011-10-19, 17:40
Well, if you prefer how about just "give away her land."

I was referencing MonkeyBoy's comment about GSMNP. Refer to my previous, now edited, post.

woodsy
2011-10-19, 17:54
Fact is folks the National Park system can't fund the maintenance required on the parks they already have. Last check, about 3 mos. ago, their maint. backlog was estimated to be 9.5 BILLION dollars.
Now that quimby has managed to piss off the states population and Millinocket locals with her demeaning remarks , she will probably end up with a national monument instead of a park.
Besides, Her 20 million dollar endowment for the park won't even build the park roads in that rugged country.
"Ban Quimby" , bumper stickers seen on vehicles in the Millinocket area.

Gaiter
2011-10-19, 18:03
I'm not in maine and I know she isn't popular in maine and probably didn't take the best approach at the start of this whole project, but I think given the good intentions the project was started with, I think it will turn out well

warraghiyagey
2011-10-19, 18:30
Ms. Quimby has been a lightning rod for controversy since she started buying property and having an opinion as to what to do with it. It seems that her life will always involve Maine lands and the scope of her fortune ensures that any realty moves she makes will be newsworthy.
Giving any land to a federal entity raises an eyebrow or two, especially in states like Maine or Montana where they just don't take particularly kindly to that concept.
Playing the advocate. . . . it certainly seems there are much worse actions a person with her wealth could be taking. . . I truly believe she is trying to do good with her powers. . . and not evil.... as it were....

rcli4
2011-10-19, 18:55
The truth is probably, the landowner pays local taxes on the land. That money keeps the local govt running. She donates it to the feds at an inflated tax price/write off. She has millions in tax free money from her income and Millinocket High closes for lack of funds. If she gives it to the state the write off price is closer to real value. Less money for her in write off. She expect folks to like wild spaces like she does. Most folks want jobs to buy oxycontin or employed folks to steal shit from for oxycontin.

woodsy
2011-10-19, 19:20
Ms. Quimby has been a lightning rod for controversy since she started buying property and having an opinion as to what to do with it.

And the biggest reason for that lightening rod effect is the 1st thing she does with her new land acquisitions is gate , block, post and deny access for traditional uses such as hunting, fishing, snowmobiles, ATVs , any motorized traffic.
Seems like the LL Bean heriss did the same thing in the tumbledown mtn area, banned traditional camping spots, tore down the lean to etc...

She (Quimby)has started coming around to some of the local residents concerns and is negotiating in hopes to get what she wants.

Hunting and Fishing is a big part of life in the Maine woods and when you start denying access to land people have always used for generations you make enemies.
I don't begrudge anyone for preserving tracts of land but a Nat Park next to Baxter? Is that really necessary ? More low paying tourist jobs?
Is it really worth it ? I think not. Don't need hoards of people spoiling the area with their motor homes and travel trailers.

rcli4
2011-10-19, 19:32
Can you imagine the cost of insurance for land that folks would use for free to hunt and camp on? No way you or anyone else could justify that costl As timerland the insurance was already in place for other reasons under an umbrella policy.

Kanga
2011-10-19, 19:37
wtf? it's her land. she paid for it. if she doesn't want rednecks on it trashing it, she has the right to do that. whiney little babies. go pay for a hunting lease or buy your own land.
on the other hand, it's always nice to see that more populated states don't have the lock-out on entitled persons.

woodsy
2011-10-19, 19:37
Can you imagine the cost of insurance for land that folks would use for free to hunt and camp on? No way you or anyone else could justify that costl As timerland the insurance was already in place for other reasons under an umbrella policy.

Don't know about where you live but property owners here have protection from lawsuits by people who hurt themselves on your property, been that way forever.
So your comment is irrelevant

This is how landowner liability here reads:


Landowner Liability Explained: Rights and Responsibilities
If someone comes onto my land and gets hurt, am I liable?

No, except in rare circumstances. Maine has a strong law to protect landowners, known as the “landowner liability” law (or the recreational use statute), Title 14, M.R.S.A. Section159-A.

If someone uses your land or passes through your premises for outdoor recreation or harvesting, you assume no responsibility and incur no liability for injuries to that person or that person’s property. You are protected whether or not you give permission to use the land.

If you allow volunteers to maintain or improve your land for recreation or harvesting, you are also protected from liability for injuries to them.

Tin Man
2011-10-19, 20:30
The truth is probably, the landowner pays local taxes on the land. That money keeps the local govt running. She donates it to the feds at an inflated tax price/write off. She has millions in tax free money from her income and Millinocket High closes for lack of funds. If she gives it to the state the write off price is closer to real value. Less money for her in write off. She expect folks to like wild spaces like she does. Most folks want jobs to buy oxycontin or employed folks to steal shit from for oxycontin.

what i was thinking - cutting out the local tax man is never popular

cutting out free access to land that formerly was free access is never popular either, regardless of the who's, why's, and legalities

not so sure what the oxy comment is about - you out clyde?

Tin Man
2011-10-19, 20:32
Don't know about where you live but property owners here have protection from lawsuits by people who hurt themselves on your property, been that way forever.
So your comment is irrelevant

This is how landowner liability here reads:

wow, now that is a law to live by. thanks for sharing woodsy

rcli4
2011-10-19, 21:04
In the interview, Ms. Quimby goes out of her way to mention Maine’s aging population, obesity rate, Oxycontin abuse and refers to Maine as a “welfare state” because of the receipt of federal funds. [QUOTE=Tin Man;260316]what i was thinking - cutting out the local tax man is never popular

cutting out free access to land that formerly was free access is never popular either, regardless of the who's, why's, and legalities

not so sure what the oxy comment is about - you out clyde?

From the ladies original story

Tin Man
2011-10-19, 21:06
[QUOTE=woodsy;260227]In the interview, Ms. Quimby goes out of her way to mention Maine’s aging population, obesity rate, Oxycontin abuse and refers to Maine as a “welfare state” because of the receipt of federal funds.

From the ladies original story

oh, okay, whatever you say clyde :bike: :D

generoll
2011-10-19, 21:53
well, having something named after you doesn't exactly confer sainthood. check this out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_J._May

note who pardoned him for his bribery conviction.

Weary
2011-10-20, 01:45
Can you imagine the cost of insurance for land that folks would use for free to hunt and camp on? No way you or anyone else could justify that costl As timerland the insurance was already in place for other reasons under an umbrella policy.
As near as I can find, no one has ever collected a dime for injuries received while recreating for free on private land in Maine.

Maine has the broadest laws in the nation protecting landowners who allow the public to use their lands for hunting, fishing, walking or even using snowmobiles and ATVs on private lands.

The law in Maine gives blanket protection from such suits unless the landowner deliberately sets a trap designed to hurt someone. And the law specifies that if anyone sues and loses, those bringing the suit must pay the legal costs of the landowners defending themselves.

It's one of the good things the paper industry did for Maine when it controlled the legislature. The companies typically owned hundreds of thousands of acres (2 million acres in one instance).

Public relations required that they allow the public to hunt and fish on the half of the state that they owned. They early on made sure that public use wouldn't cost them anything. Though the industry is on the decline, a diligent hunting and fishing community, makes sure the protections from law suits remain in place.

Tin Man
2011-10-20, 03:14
That law should be national. It is absurd that land owners should be held liable for any harm that should come to folks who use the land of their own free will. The paper industry did the right thing in enacting common sense law vs. the lawsuit happy members of Congress who protect the rights to sue the crap out of anyone over anything.

woodsy
2011-10-20, 11:59
Looks like the locals have decided to do a full spectrum economic development study and assessment of the Millinocket region as opposed to just a National park feasibility study that Roxeanne Quimby was seeking.



http://bangordailynews.com/2011/10/19/opinion/looking-beyond-a-national-park/

Elder
2011-10-20, 12:07
Most states have recreational liabilty statutes. The issue is; do the landowner and insurance company have the resources, time and effort needed to even go to court. The sue and loser pays is good. Fear of the lawsuit closes some areas.
I know of two specific groups, climbers, The Access Fund; and cavers SCCI Southeast Cave Conservancy, both offer liability protection for landowners that let us play. They have lawyers that specialize in this and it has become rare for lawsuits to go anywhere.

Crikey
2011-10-20, 12:38
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100424171859/simpsons/images/thumb/e/e0/Vote_quimbya.jpg/180px-Vote_quimbya.jpg

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-20, 13:13
Tell ya what.

Tell her to donate it to the Boy Scouts of America to build a huge high adventure scout camp on the property.

They'll gladly take the land in a heartbeat........even if she does call them fat, lazy drug abusers.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-20, 13:14
Oh, and if it becomes BSA property, you wouldn't be able to hunt and fish on it either.

Or trespass on it at your whim either.

chumpchange
2011-10-20, 18:34
what's the age limit to join the boy scouts?

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-20, 19:19
11 to 18 for Boy Scouts

14 to 21, boys or girls for Venturing Crews.

Bearpaw
2011-10-20, 20:07
11 to 18 for Boy Scouts

14 to 21, boys or girls for Venturing Crews.

Of course if you have a high tolerance for noise, rambunctiousness, lots of paperwork, and annoying parents, you could become an adult scouter and help lead some needy youth at any age above 21.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-20, 20:11
Thank God, I have none of that in our group.....well, except the paperwork.....but I have people to fill that out for me.

Wise Old Owl
2011-10-20, 20:45
Pompous? no Factual yes.... Sucks when Maine appears to be the 2nd highest state that pays welfare.

Her different take is freedom of speech.. normally I would give references here .. but tonight I am beat....

so don't take this wrong - DO your own hokey homework. And I do love visiting Maine.

OH and Monkeyboy - you have the best post ever- Donate to the BS.!

woodsy
2011-10-20, 21:08
Let this be a lesson to all people from away, when you, like Quimby did, put the Maine people down like you are somehow better than them, be prepared to accept the consequences. It ain't pretty.

Weary
2011-10-20, 21:15
Let this be a lesson to all people from away, when you, like Quimby did, put the Maine people down like you are somehow better than them, be prepared to accept the consequences. It ain't pretty.
Right! Always remember. The truth hurts.

woodsy
2011-10-20, 21:20
Right! Always remember. The truth hurts.

That a boy Weary, suck up to the massholes! She is one.....

Tin Man
2011-10-20, 22:05
Of course if you have a high tolerance for noise, rambunctiousness, lots of paperwork, and annoying parents, you could become an adult scouter and help lead some needy youth at any age above 21.

annoying parents are the bane of my existence


Thank God, I have none of that in our group.....well, except the paperwork.....but I have people to fill that out for me.

you suck :bootyshak

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-20, 23:18
Let this be a lesson to all people from away, when you, like Quimby did, put the Maine people down like you are somehow better than them, be prepared to accept the consequences. It ain't pretty.

Just for the record, I never put the people of Maine down.

I did say that I didn't agree with their logic, but that isn't putting them down.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-20, 23:19
annoying parents are the bane of my existence



you suck :bootyshak

That is probably a first for me.......:aetsch:

Tin Man
2011-10-20, 23:19
Just for the record, I never put the people of Maine down.

I did say that I didn't agree with their logic, but that isn't putting them down.

where do maniacs stand on the subject of wind chill?

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-20, 23:20
I hate wind chill. That's why I live in Florida.

Tin Man
2011-10-21, 00:03
monkeys are such pussies...

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/video/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20101228/0003ff2aee5d0e839ece08.jpg

ain't happening...

Weary
2011-10-21, 00:40
That a boy Weary, suck up to the massholes! She is one.....
I was just being honest. Roxanne's complaints are pretty accurate. We have an aging population, and it's getting older, thanks to other attributes that make Maine a wonderful place to live. My town's population is growing, but it's student population is shrinking. The growth is almost exclusively in retirees.

The figures I've seen rank Maine people on average as more obese than all but two or three other states.

Oxycontin abuse is rampant.

And Maine has among the nation's most liberal welfare rules -- often wise rules I think -- but we spend more per capita than a majority of states. How many other states routinely provide opportunities for welfare moms to earn college degrees?

woodsy
2011-10-21, 08:46
I was just being honest. Roxanne's complaints are pretty accurate. We have an aging population, and it's getting older, thanks to other attributes that make Maine a wonderful place to live. My town's population is growing, but it's student population is shrinking. The growth is almost exclusively in retirees.

The figures I've seen rank Maine people on average as more obese than all but two or three other states.

Oxycontin abuse is rampant.

And Maine has among the nation's most liberal welfare rules -- often wise rules I think -- but we spend more per capita than a majority of states. How many other states routinely provide opportunities for welfare moms to earn college degrees?

Plenty of other states have very similar issues. She had no right to single us out like we are some sort of freak state.

So, Quimby National Park is going to turn this all around ? Everyone in state will become rich, drug free, skinny and young ?

Just curious what her motives were behind the disparaging remarks.

She was in E. Millinocket last night catching some flack from the locals over it.

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/10/20/news/penobscot/quimby-goes-to-e-millinocket-apologizes-for-%e2%80%98welfare-state%e2%80%99-remarks/

warraghiyagey
2011-10-21, 08:48
And I heard she thinks wind chill is a myth.... :ahhhhh::angel:

warraghiyagey
2011-10-21, 08:53
Plenty of other states have very similar issues. She had no right to single us out like we are some sort of freak state.


Apparently she's nevver heard of Mississippi or Alabama..... :ahhhhh::ahhhhh:

Kanga
2011-10-21, 09:07
Nah. The South's problem is meth, not oxy.

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-21, 09:30
Here in Florida, we've got problems with both.

Tin Man
2011-10-21, 09:33
in CT, the problems start with the parents

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-21, 09:37
in CT, the problems start with the parents

That is pretty much universal.

Tin Man
2011-10-21, 09:39
That is pretty much universal.

no kidding. :)

...and the same parents take no responsibility for anything their kids do

MonkeyBoy
2011-10-21, 09:43
Meth and Oxy are two drugs that have been sent directly from the bowels of Hell.

I've seen it destroy many lives, both from the parents and the children.

I've even had an Eagle Scout busted for Oxy. Fine outstanding young man by 18. Strung out on Oxy by the time he's 21. He's turned his life around and doesn't do it anymore, but it has taken it's toll. He's missed too many opportunities and too many open doors.

Weary
2011-10-21, 10:54
Plenty of other states have very similar issues. She had no right to single us out like we are some sort of freak state.

So, Quimby National Park is going to turn this all around ? Everyone in state will become rich, drug free, skinny and young ?

Just curious what her motives were behind the disparaging remarks.

She was in E. Millinocket last night catching some flack from the locals over it.

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/10/20/news/penobscot/quimby-goes-to-e-millinocket-apologizes-for-%e2%80%98welfare-state%e2%80%99-remarks/
She may have just been pissed off over all the flack she's taken over trying to give away land for a park.

woodsy
2011-10-21, 18:57
She may have just been pissed off over all the flack she's taken over trying to give away land for a park.

Not everyone welcomes the federal govt. in their backyard telling them what they can and can't do on their land.
People in the Katahdin region are smart people despite what Quimby says about them.

BTW, she ain't all that bright even if she is rich.
She didn't think her Forbes interview would even be read here in Maine !
Like we don't know how to read or something......

Sheesh !

Skidsteer
2011-10-21, 19:07
BTW, she ain't all that bright even if she is rich.
She didn't think her Forbes interview would even be read here in Maine !
Like we don't know how to read or something......

Sheesh !

You should've read what she said about y'all in the online issue of Forbes.

woodsy
2011-10-21, 19:11
You should've read what she said about y'all in the online issue of Forbes.

I can just imagine, nobody here even knows how to use a internet.
What does online mean anyway? :angel:

Gaiter
2011-10-21, 20:05
important update turns out the one in the bottom right is the methheads she was talking about:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302436_215952351804615_102673803132471_518374_3669 93452_n.jpg

Weary
2011-10-21, 21:01
important update turns out the one in the bottom right is the methheads she was talking about:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302436_215952351804615_102673803132471_518374_3669 93452_n.jpg
Well, I certainly agree with Gaiter.

Weary
2011-10-21, 21:17
Not everyone welcomes the federal govt. in their backyard telling them what they can and can't do on their land.
People in the Katahdin region are smart people despite what Quimby says about them.

BTW, she ain't all that bright even if she is rich.
She didn't think her Forbes interview would even be read here in Maine !
Like we don't know how to read or something......

Sheesh !
Well, she certainly has talents. She turned a home business she started as a back to the land hippie into a corporation she has sold for a total of around $400 million. That's quite a bit better than I have ever done. How about you?

BTW, every opinion poll I've seen has shown a majority of Maine citizens support her efforts. Politicians, who tend to listen mostly to contributors, have alternate opinions. I wonder why.

Then of course their are those worried about change in their backyards. I can sympathize with that view. After all rich people are great at protecting their backyards.

But occasionally both sides end up opposing their own best interests.

woodsy
2011-10-22, 09:25
[QUOTE]Well, she certainly has talents. She turned a home business she started as a back to the land hippie into a corporation she has sold for a total of around $400 million. That's quite a bit better than I have ever done. How about you?

Even she was quoted as saying it was a miracle.
I've done well enough for me thank you. I'm not on welfare, never have been, I'm not a obese drug addict or tone deaf like some have suggested.
My wife and I are quite happy with what little we have here, we own our property and we don't owe money to anyone besides the tax man for annual property taxes.
Plenty of rich people are truly miserable cusses anyway.



BTW, every opinion poll I've seen has shown a majority of Maine citizens support her efforts.

Well its the people in the Katahdin regions vote that will get the final say.
Who cares what coastal and southern mainers think about a park in northern maine. It won't be in their back yard so they won't have to put up with the hoards of sightseers in their gas guzzling Suvs, motor homes and travel trailers belching pollution.


Politicians, who tend to listen mostly to contributors, have alternate opinions. I wonder why.
From what i've read they are listening to the people in the region, don't try to spin this toward your agenda.


Then of course their are those worried about change in their backyards. I can sympathize with that view. After all rich people are great at protecting their backyards.


Yes they are, first thing they do is post it with bright no trespassing signs, then the iron gates go up on any usable roads. Land that was often used for various recreational pursuits is no longer accessible to anyone but the new rich owner, very well protected indeed.

What really gets me about this whole idea of a National Park being some kind of natural preserve is the fact there is nothing natural about introducing paved roads into such an area for a gazillion automobiles to pass through .
Go ahead and tell me thats good for the pristine environment and its wildlife inhabitants.

Me thinks Mrs Quimby is high on pot and looking for fame.

Kanga
2011-10-22, 10:16
Me thinks Mrs Quimby is high on pot and looking for fame.

Ahhhh. the american dream.:beer:

generoll
2011-10-22, 10:45
lol. go get em cowgirl.

Nearly Normal
2011-10-23, 02:15
Ahhhh. the american dream.:beer:

"..... .. . ......, and diggin on the radio".

Jester
2011-10-23, 05:02
wtf? it's her land. she paid for it. if she doesn't want rednecks on it trashing it, she has the right to do that. whiney little babies. go pay for a hunting lease or buy your own land.
on the other hand, it's always nice to see that more populated states don't have the lock-out on entitled persons.

This is what I'm not quite sure I understand. If I buy land in Maine, am I expected to let people hunt, fish, and snowmobile on it? I always sort of thought that if I bought land, I was free to do what I wanted with it, including posting "No Trespassing" signs on it.

So if that would be the case if she held the land herself (and I presume it would be), then hunters, fishermen, and snowmobilers wouldn't be losing anything if it became a National Park, 'cause she wouldn't let them do any of that on her land if she kept it private property.

So what we're left with instead is a tax based argument, if I'm reading things correctly. Land she donates to the Fed. Gov't. won't be liable to local property taxes. Is that the complaint?

Tin Man
2011-10-23, 07:24
Who cares what coastal and southern mainers think about a park in northern maine. It won't be in their back yard so they won't have to put up with the hoards of sightseers in their gas guzzling Suvs, motor homes and travel trailers belching pollution.



ahh so, maybe it's time for new license plates ... not to mention new line of work for those focused on tourons...


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtQgvhUwEINNGuHlEvUecxwutIdlFdq-U4Rl-pMtPp8PaVE7y3Y8uu2g0w

Two Speed
2011-10-23, 08:49
. . . What really gets me about this whole idea of a National Park being some kind of natural preserve is the fact there is nothing natural about introducing paved roads into such an area for a gazillion automobiles to pass through . . . You do realize you're channeling Tipi Walter, right?

NTTAWWT. I've sat in camp and listened to one of his TIpi's rants and thought it added a lot to the conversation.

woodsy
2011-10-23, 08:56
You do realize you're channeling Tipi Walter, right?

NTTAWWT. I've sat in camp and listened to one of his TIpi's rants and thought it added a lot to the conversation.

Hahaha, he has some valid points doesn't he ?

Look at what the NPS did for the people of Cuyahoga valley in Ohio, disgraceful.
Its about 10 min video but worth the education on having the strong arm of the federal govt. in the neighborhood.
xostD4bcvZs

woodsy
2011-10-23, 09:21
ahh so, maybe it's time for new license plates ... not to mention new line of work for those focused on tourons...


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtQgvhUwEINNGuHlEvUecxwutIdlFdq-U4Rl-pMtPp8PaVE7y3Y8uu2g0w


Agree, replace the vacationland logo with Ban Roxeanne :beer:

Weary
2011-10-23, 12:01
A National Park may not be the best use for Roxanne's land, but it's the only realistic option. The companies that once owned half of Maine in order to raise raw material for their mills, have sold their lands to the highest bidders.

The prices people paid make it obvious that the past isn't coming back, despite Woody's dream. The buyers paid prices that make the land far too expensive to ever again be devoted exclusively to growing trees.

Most of the buyers dream of creating luxury recreational resorts and luxury second home developments -- activities that will welcome paved roads, and won't welcome hikers, hunters, snowmobilers, not even ATVs.

Roxanne and a few conservation groups are the exceptions. They dream of a few hundred thousand acres being used by the public in perpetuity. They dream of creating tiny remnants of the lands as Henry Thoreau saw them on his three trips to the state a century and a half ago.

The opponents seek of a return of the past. If they succeed in blocking Roxanne's dream for a park, the last chance for a bit of the past will have been lost.

Weary
2011-10-23, 12:16
......double post

Kanga
2011-10-23, 12:26
well said, weary. even though you said it twice.

woodsy
2011-10-23, 17:42
With all due respect to Weary some of his statements hold some truth and some remain yet to be seen.
There is a lot of misinformation circulating about this endeavor, mostly from the
Quimby camp. Just for example she claims to be giving up 70,000 acres but actually only owns 59,000 acres. She was questioned about it and admitted
that this was true, called it sloppy information handling. hmmmmm
Me and weary could go back and forth on this day after day but to clear some of the misinformation up there is a pretty fair and balanced summary of the goings on and is up to date as of two days ago at the following link FWIW.

http://www.themainejournal.com/2011/10/21/quimby-land-donation/

rcli4
2011-10-23, 19:23
Woodsy, do the people of Maine really not believe in private property? It sounds like they feel they have a right to hunt and fish and snowmobile on property they don't own. And then they have part in decideing if you cut the trees on it? Did I read this right?

woodsy
2011-10-23, 20:03
Woodsy, do the people of Maine really not believe in private property? It sounds like they feel they have a right to hunt and fish and snowmobile on property they don't own. And then they have part in decideing if you cut the trees on it? Did I read this right?

1. Of course we believe in private property
2.It has been a long tradition here, it being a sportsman's paradise that private landowners be encouraged to keep their property open to the general public and neighbors for pursuits such as hunting and fishing namely. That access has
evolved to snowmobiles and ATVs nowadays complicating maters some as not everyone uses them or likes them on their property.
I think the state now requires you to ask a landowner for permission to snowmobile or ATV on land you do not own unless it is a designated trail already.
For hunting you need to ask permission only if it is posted. All Maine waters are open for fishing to the public as long as there is a public access.

3.As for cutting trees thats only the landowners decision.

Weary
2011-10-23, 22:12
1. Of course we believe in private property
2.It has been a long tradition here, it being a sportsman's paradise that private landowners be encouraged to keep their property open to the general public and neighbors for pursuits such as hunting and fishing namely. That access has
evolved to snowmobiles and ATVs nowadays complicating maters some as not everyone uses them or likes them on their property.
I think the state now requires you to ask a landowner for permission to snowmobile or ATV on land you do not own unless it is a designated trail already.
For hunting you need to ask permission only if it is posted. All Maine waters are open for fishing to the public as long as there is a public access.

3.As for cutting trees thats only the landowners decision.
Woodsy is right. We all believe in private property. That's why some of us believe approval of the national park proposal is essential, especially those of us who live in southern Maine and have experienced the reluctance of most out of state buyers to allow public access.

And that's why some of us spend most of our spare time working for land trusts. More and more the first act of new Maine property owners is to post their lands against hiking, and other public access.

It's obvious to me that soon most private property will ban public access. Only public property and land trust holdings will soon be available to general public use if present trends continue. My favorite Phippsburg walk for years was a three mile loop trail that began accoss the street on partly private land and partly on old rights of way.

New owners posted no tresspassing signs within weeks of taking over the home and 200 acres they purchased a few years ago.

rcli4
2011-10-23, 22:48
Individuals are concerned and oppose Quimby because they are unsure if such a donation is in the best interest of Maine, a state that relies heavily on its forest products industry.

### if it is private property she dosen't have to cut trees. So this has no effect on timber industry.

He has stated, “Roxanne is trying to impose her vision on how woods should be on an area that is based on the forest products industry. We do not welcome her taking land out of that industry.”

### if it is private property aint none of his bidness

In addition residents of Maine and many vacationers to the state enjoy outdoor recreation such as snowmobiling, riding ATVs, hunting, fishing, hiking and canoeing.

### I don't see how anyone thinks they have a right to do this shit on someone else's property. If they don't care fine, but your getting pissed because you can't hunt on their land. Seems presumptuous at best.

woodsy
2011-10-23, 23:38
What weary said about more and more land being bought up by people from away and them posting it is true. They are bringing their selfish citified ways to the country, not good neighbors. Been going downhill that way for a couple -three decades.


rcli4;260837]Individuals are concerned and oppose Quimby because they are unsure if such a donation is in the best interest of Maine, a state that relies heavily on its forest products industry.

### if it is private property she dosen't have to cut trees. So this has no effect on timber industry.

It removes large tracts of timberland from the resource pool.


He has stated, “Roxanne is trying to impose her vision on how woods should be on an area that is based on the forest products industry. We do not welcome her taking land out of that industry.”

### if it is private property aint none of his bidness

True but this park thing could snowball into a 2-3 million acre conservation area before they are done locking up some really vast timberland.
I don't think they are telling the people their real intentions.
If they did opposition would be much much larger, shes got a big battle ahead as it is wanting the feds in there.

In addition residents of Maine and many vacationers to the state enjoy outdoor recreation such as snowmobiling, riding ATVs, hunting, fishing, hiking and canoeing.

### I don't see how anyone thinks they have a right to do this shit on someone else's property. If they don't care fine, but your getting pissed because you can't hunt on their land. Seems presumptuous at best.


Thats the way its always been up this way , huge tracts of land open to the public . Hunting and fishing being a big part of maine life, but times are changing.
There has been a major snowmobile trail on this land Quimby bought for a couple decades , comes out of Millinocket and heads to Northernmost part of state, shes saying she is shutting it down thereby pissing off the snowmobile
industry . Not a good neighbor.

mudhead
2011-10-30, 15:12
Roxanne has eyebrows like the dude on "Twilight."

I bet the Warg would lick them.

woodsy
2011-11-01, 16:30
park opposition momentum building , some heavy hitters with big memberships.

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/11/01/news/penobscot/groups-join-snowmobilers-in-opposition-to-expansion-of-maine-wilderness-park/?ref=relatedSidebar
And, Quimby is erecting gates on her new found land just north of Monson,
don't say i didn't tell ya so.

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/11/01/news/piscataquis/gate-installed-by-quimby-in-elliottsville-township-a-sore-point-with-residents/

The article's comments are always entertaining......

mudhead
2011-11-01, 18:41
Did/does she own the road into the Little Wilson Campsites that were closed a few years back? I wouldn't blame her for gating that, it was a mess.


I can't believe I didn't get a rise out of the Warg. I always figured him for an eyebrow man...

Jester
2011-11-01, 19:05
Reading comments from Mainers about what they think they should be able to do on other people's land makes me realize that entitlement isn't solely reserved for thru-hikers.

warraghiyagey
2011-11-01, 19:26
Did/does she own the road into the Little Wilson Campsites that were closed a few years back? I wouldn't blame her for gating that, it was a mess.


I can't believe I didn't get a rise out of the Warg. I always figured him for an eyebrow man...

We actually looked at property abutting that purchase last year.... got a chance to hike it with Woodsy before we even knew that was the land that we were interested in..... would've even had our own moose....:beer:

warraghiyagey
2011-11-01, 19:27
Reading comments from Mainers about what they think they should be able to do on other people's land makes me realize that entitlement isn't solely reserved for thru-hikers.

Youu almost sound like you know what you're talking about.....

woodsy
2011-11-01, 19:51
We actually looked at property abutting that purchase last year.... got a chance to hike it with Woodsy before we even knew that was the land that we were interested in..... would've even had our own moose....:beer:

I thought that was the place, its all Roxeanns now, all to herself. :boring:

woodsy
2011-11-01, 19:57
Originally Posted by Jester
Reading comments from Mainers about what they think they should be able to do on other people's land makes me realize that entitlement isn't solely reserved for thru-hikers.


Warrgy:You almost sound like you know what you're talking about.....

I like the comments from the flatlanders better, must be Jester's kin

warraghiyagey
2011-11-01, 20:03
I thought that was the place, its all Roxeanns now, all to herself. :boring:

We were surprised to find out it was the very ridge that that moose followed us that day..... sss'okay.... there's a better piece of land opposite side of the river that she didn't buy

warraghiyagey
2011-11-01, 20:55
http://www.dianesbeachwear.com/images/productitem/detail_1-4056-big-girls-dont-cry-btm-1024B_6.jpg

Skidsteer
2011-11-01, 20:57
http://www.dianesbeachwear.com/images/productitem/detail_1-4056-big-girls-dont-cry-btm-1024B_6.jpg

That moose seems nice.

warraghiyagey
2011-11-01, 21:00
That moose seems nice.

There's thousands of them up there just runnin wild...

Skidsteer
2011-11-01, 21:05
There's thousands of them up there just runnin wild...

So that explains why you only come South once every two years.

woodsy
2011-11-01, 21:07
“I was very surprised that there was so much pushback and resistance to this idea” of a national park, Quimby said of her proposal.

Some of that resistance became apparent Thursday when Quimby was questioned about public access, wood harvesting and camp leases.

Quimby was appointed last year to the National Park Foundation board of directors.

Maybe because she was recently appointed to the board she figures now she can cram this down the mainer's throats.

Any conflict of interest here ?

warraghiyagey
2011-11-01, 21:09
So that explains why you only come South once every two years.

Zzzzactly....:beer:

warraghiyagey
2011-11-01, 21:09
Maybe because she was recently appointed to the board she figures now she can cram this down the mainer's throats.

Any conflict of interest here ?

I doubt Jester would think so but it certainly seems that way....

Tin Man
2011-11-01, 21:33
Reading comments from Mainers about what they think they should be able to do on other people's land makes me realize that entitlement isn't solely reserved for thru-hikers.


Youu almost sound like you know what you're talking about.....

I didn't read it that way...

Tin Man
2011-11-01, 21:34
http://www.dianesbeachwear.com/images/productitem/detail_1-4056-big-girls-dont-cry-btm-1024B_6.jpg

she's not from maine... too many teeth...

rcli4
2011-11-01, 21:51
So much for stereotypes. I always thought the folks from Maine were like folks from northern Michigan. Tough, independent, self sufficient, make do kind of folks. Folks that stand on their own two feet and bought the boots they stood in. Damn was I wrong....

Tin Man
2011-11-01, 22:01
So much for stereotypes. I always thought the folks from Maine were like folks from northern Michigan. Tough, independent, self sufficient, make do kind of folks. Folks that stand on their own two feet and bought the boots they stood in. Damn was I wrong....

but you are so right. the others are just visitors...

mudhead
2011-11-02, 08:36
Reading comments from Mainers about what they think they should be able to do on other people's land makes me realize that entitlement isn't solely reserved for thru-hikers.

You want property tax breaks on land in return for access, well, maybe that is entitlement.

I wouldn't step on private property without permission, even if it were not posted.

Quimby wants to include Baxter in her NP. Last I checked that belonged to the residents of the state.

Kind of like I have a dollar, you give me a hundred, some one else give me twenty, then we will have $126.

woodsy
2011-11-02, 09:19
So much for stereotypes. I always thought the folks from Maine were like folks from northern Michigan. Tough, independent, self sufficient, make do kind of folks. Folks that stand on their own two feet and bought the boots they stood in. Damn was I wrong....

This coming from someone living in FL is expected, but doesn't hold any water.
Its just more flatlander blah blah.
Turn on your oil heat, must be down to 60 there by now.

Crikey
2011-11-02, 09:19
A free T shirt and a case of cuticle cream for every Mainah should close the deal.

woodsy
2011-11-02, 09:24
Did/does she own the road into the Little Wilson Campsites that were closed a few years back? I wouldn't blame her for gating that, it was a mess.


I was in there last fall after climbing Boarstone with the kid, warg and fricky,
didn't see any messes, some folks having a picnic by the falls.
Don't remember a gate either, not locked anyway.

woodsy
2011-11-02, 09:31
A free T shirt and a case of cuticle cream for every Mainah should close the deal.

Haha, boy is she in for a surprise(Quimby)
Thats one thing i'll say about mainers, they are not easily bought, weary excluded.
Just cause you are filthy rich, drive a fancy car and dress in fancy LL Bean clothes doesn't gain you much if any respect here.

mudhead
2011-11-02, 10:47
A free T shirt and a case of cuticle cream for every Mainah should close the deal.


I got a "chapstick" in a Christmas stocking. Gave it to the gal that runs Abol Bridge Store one day. Should have seen her face.



I was in there last fall after climbing Boarstone with the kid, warg and fricky,
didn't see any messes, some folks having a picnic by the falls.
Don't remember a gate either, not locked anyway.



W side of the river. Maybe was the previous landowner. Once was marked as a campsite in the Gazeteer. Last I was in there, kids in a VW van were pissing about development on Kineo. When they left they tossed a used diaper out the door. Phish sticker and PA plates. At the time there was a biggie dumpster out on the asphalt road. 2 guys in a work truck with MA plates eating lunch- foam clamshells added to an overflowing barrel. Then they drove out.

Should be a bounty.

I just ordered 5 new ensembles from the LL Signature line. Anyone else like their fine selection? Especially like the cover. Heavy sweater, but doesn't cover her back. Rolled up pant cuffs. Perfect for cold or bugs.

Weary
2011-11-02, 11:16
I thought that was the place, its all Roxeanns now, all to herself. :boring:
Not really. You can walk anyplace you want on the property. No questions asked. I admit it's not quite as exciting. You no longer have to dodge racing, out-of-control ATVs.

Weary
2011-11-02, 11:34
Reading comments from Mainers about what they think they should be able to do on other people's land makes me realize that entitlement isn't solely reserved for thru-hikers.
Land ownership is not a black and white thing. It's pretty well established that the public has some control over private land, though recent court decisions make some of us a bit worried. I can keep people from walking on my private land -- though I wouldn't. But I can't dump fill onto my salt marsh to create a larger lawn or a new house lot. Nor can I cut the trees that are growing close to the shore under a law I supported and voted for.

A more open view of the estuary would be nice. But other creatures besides humans use private land and their needs are rightly protected.

Weary
2011-11-02, 11:49
Maybe because she was recently appointed to the board she figures now she can cram this down the mainer's throats.

Any conflict of interest here ?
When Roxanne returned to Maine a few years ago with her new millions, she announced plans to buy land for a Maine Woods National Park. It was her dollars and her support for national parks that won her appointment to the board of the National Parks Foundation. So no. There is no conflict of interest. Her interests remain the same.

BTW, it's my understanding that she has not been engaged in a bidding war for the land she has purchased. Rather private land owners have approached her to buy their lands.

rcli4
2011-11-02, 15:43
This coming from someone living in FL is expected, but doesn't hold any water.
Its just more flatlander blah blah.
Turn on your oil heat, must be down to 60 there by now.

I was grew up in northern Michigan. They believe in private property there. And yes I live in Florida, I ain't fucking stupid, I found a better way to live. Near as I can tell you got somebody trying to preserve land for future generations. Sounds like a bitch to me.

Crikey
2011-11-02, 16:02
I was grew up in northern Michigan.

Never too late to hit that Edit function.

Cuffs
2011-11-02, 18:20
Never too late to hit that Edit function.

Its ok He said northern Michigan. Now on the other hand if he'd said he was a Yooper...

mudhead
2011-11-02, 19:14
No doubt. They really are a half a bubble off plumb.

woodsy
2011-11-04, 15:56
Well i was grew up in maine, so there :aetsch:

If y'all keep supporting this national park thing i'm going to have to ask
Mudhead, who lives on property bordering a nat. park to tell some of the horror stories about having uncle sam as a neighbor. It won't be pretty either.

A Nat park in the Millinocket area could turn into a full scale war knowing some of the redneck locals in the area, just sayin....

rcli4
2011-11-04, 16:46
Well i was grew up in maine, so there :aetsch:

If y'all keep supporting this national park thing i'm going to have to ask
Mudhead, who lives on property bordering a nat. park to tell some of the horror stories about having uncle sam as a neighbor. It won't be pretty either.

A Nat park in the Millinocket area could turn into a full scale war knowing some of the redneck locals in the area, just sayin....

I fully understand the dislike of living next to a park of anykind. I even understand not wanting to permanently loose the tax base. I just couldn't understand being pissed because they wouldn't let someone use it for their personal playground when they didn't own it....

Weary
2011-11-04, 18:11
I fully understand the dislike of living next to a park of anykind. I even understand not wanting to permanently loose the tax base. I just couldn't understand being pissed because they wouldn't let someone use it for their personal playground when they didn't own it....
My town has 5,000 acres of protected lands, including 1,000 acres of state park, a thousand acres of Fish & wildlife lands and 3,000 acres of land trust and other conservation ownership.

ATVers complain about bans on their use, but real estate agents think it's a great selling point. There ads proclaim "near protected lands," and "near trails."

woodsy
2011-11-04, 18:33
The reality of this proposed park is hundreds of locals will be put out of their homes and property because they are not aesthetically pleasing to the eye of the out-o-state tourons when approaching the proposed park.
C'mon weary, it ain't just about ATVers.
I am glad we can agree to disagree though :beer:

And, the feds will take over whatever private property they deem necessary
around the park perimeter by eminent domain, because they can . Thugs !

"Ban Roxanne", bumperstickahs seen on trucks and cars in Milinocket area.

mudhead
2011-11-04, 20:20
Restore Boston bumper sticker says it all.

Way back when the paper company- Great Northern Paper, built Millinocket. They got a sweetheart deal with state money over the years. Spruce budworm spraying blah blah. In return people had access.

Quite recently, a company in Brewer, Maine had a state issued permit to discharge 2000lbs/year of mercury into the Penobscot River. They made chemicals for bleaching paper or some such process.

Dirty business.

I have no problems with Quimby conserving her land. She should consider leaving Baxter alone, as well as the 2 million other acres she envisions.

Part of the issue with the snowmobile trail is that her land manager told the club she would grant them access for an additional 3 years if they supported her plan in writing.

Quimby made no local friends when she took her company and jobs to NC. I probably would have taken the cash dangled myself.

I would not have come back to the state and told people what they needed to do to survive. Followed by telling Forbes locals are fat dumb and adddicted. Don't even know what is good for them type thing.

Kind of like the bumper sticker in FL-

"I don't care how you did it up North."

woodsy
2011-11-04, 20:46
My town has 5,000 acres of protected lands, including 1,000 acres of state park, a thousand acres of Fish & wildlife lands and 3,000 acres of land trust and other conservation ownership.

ATVers complain about bans on their use, but real estate agents think it's a great selling point. There ads proclaim "near protected lands," and "near trails."

My backyard has 6,000 acres of protected land, shooting for 11,000 acres, (http://www.belgradelakes.org/kennebec_highlands.html)and its open to all feathers of recreation, hiking, snowmobiling, ATVers, fisherman, hunters, horseback riders,
what have you. Seems to be a harmonious land trust from what i have observed. No need to single out any particular activity because of ones warped sense of selfishness.

Crikey
2011-11-04, 20:58
My backyard has 6,000 acres

I sure hope you got one of them self propelled lawnmowers.

Tin Man
2011-11-04, 21:46
I sure hope you got one of them self propelled lawnmowers.

i think he uses one of these....

http://www.gadgetking.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/image65.png

Weary
2011-11-05, 22:53
The reality of this proposed park is hundreds of locals will be put out of their homes and property because they are not aesthetically pleasing to the eye of the out-o-state tourons when approaching the proposed park.
C'mon weary, it ain't just about ATVers.
I am glad we can agree to disagree though :beer:

And, the feds will take over whatever private property they deem necessary
around the park perimeter by eminent domain, because they can . Thugs !

"Ban Roxanne", bumperstickahs seen on trucks and cars in Milinocket area.
There aren't hundreds of people living anywhere near Roxanne's proposed 70,000 acre gift for a national park. The entire 10 million acres of Maine's unorganized wildlands has only 10,000 residents. Housing is selling at ultra bargain prices in Millinocket since the mill jobs have largely disappeared.

Eminent domain won't be needed. Most residents would love to leave. So many have already left that the local high school is trying to import students from China in order to keep open.

BTW my town land trust hasn't banned ATVs and snowmobiles. We do try to keep ATVs off our walking trails. Other land conservation agencies have restricted, but have not banned the machines. Hunting and fishing is welcome on most of our 5,000 acres of protected lands. Only on portions of the state park is hunting prohibited.

mudhead
2011-11-06, 08:56
Eminent domain won't be needed.

Will that be included in any written proposal/law?

Could the feds change that after the fact?

How do you feel about Baxter State Park being absorbed?

Jester
2011-11-06, 11:17
Will that be included in any written proposal/law?

Could the feds change that after the fact?

How do you feel about Baxter State Park being absorbed?

I haven't read anything by anyone actually involved that that's part of the plan. Can you cite a source for that?

Weary
2011-11-06, 19:43
I haven't read anything by anyone actually involved that that's part of the plan. Can you cite a source for that?
It is not part of any Roxanne Quimby plan. It's just one of the rumors (lies) that are used by opponents to increase public opposition.

Baxter is totally supported by user fees and a trust fund created in the will of Governor Baxter when he died at age 90 plus.

The idea of making Baxter Park a part of a national park has been kicked around for many decades. But it has not been seriously proposed since the 1930s.

As I've noted before, Roxanne had litle knowledge when she returned to Maine with the idea of helping to create a Maine Woods National Park. She might have mentioned such a possibility at one point. But it is not part of her current proposal. And has never been a part of a well thought out modern plan for a Maine Woods National Park.

Weary
2011-11-06, 19:53
Will that (Eminent domain won't be needed) be included in any written proposal/law?

Could the feds change that after the fact?

How do you feel about Baxter State Park being absorbed?
I would oppose adding Baxter in any federal park proposal. But such an option is not being proposed.

Eminent domain is always a legal option for government projects undertaken in the public interest -- even numerous private projects. It's my opinion that given the depressed economy in the wildlands of Maine that power is unlikely to be needed.

mudhead
2011-11-06, 20:07
It is not part of any Roxanne Quimby plan.

Did it not come out of her mouth Weary?

What she and her public relations types are telling us now do not really matter.

Weary
2011-11-06, 23:19
Did it not come out of her mouth Weary?

What she and her public relations types are telling us now do not really matter.
Why not? She's a very bright and honest person. I've casually met her and her daughter, who runs her foundation. I haven't seen any PR types. Have you?

She spent two decades turning a home business into a business that sold for a quarter of a billion dollars. She retired moved to Maine with a plan to create a national park. It was clear at first she knew very little about parks, even being confused about the difference between a National Park and a National Forest.

That doesn't mean she's still confused. I see no reason to not trust what she is now saying.

woodsy
2011-11-07, 08:11
Eminent domain is always a legal option for government projects undertaken in the public interest -- even numerous private projects. It's my opinion that given the depressed economy in the wildlands of Maine that power is unlikely to be needed.

There will always be some holdouts. Thats when they send the thugs in.

Acadia has ongoing issues with holdouts and the feds quest for pushing their
current boundaries into more privately held land.

If they get their foot in the door up north they will do whatever the hell they please well beyond the proposed park's boundaries.

Jester
2011-11-07, 13:39
How do you feel about Baxter State Park being absorbed?


Can you cite a source for that?


Did it not come out of her mouth Weary?


Again: got a quote, a source, a citation? Anything? Or is that just a bullshit question?

(Sort of like push polling. You know, when a campaign calls voters and asks about a rival canidate things like, "would you be more or less likely to vote for him if you found out he had a black baby?")

woodsy
2011-11-07, 16:35
Awesome gate Roxanne !! I mean, wow ! I've seen a lot of gates but that there is some serious gate.
This is what we get when we let flatlanders buy up maine land.

And now for the latest in the Roxanne saga:

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/11/07/news/penobscot/quimby-allows-snowmobile-clubs-access-to-her-lands-for-a-year/

Weary
2011-11-07, 17:16
Awesome gate Roxanne !! I mean, wow ! I've seen a lot of gates but that there is some serious gate.
This is what we get when we let flatlanders buy up maine land.
......
Hmmm. Mainers seem to like flatlanders money about as well as they like other people's money. Do you have a plan for how we might keep them from buying Maine land? If so, let me know so I can oppose it.

I dislike their no tresspassing signs, but our town land trust pretty much survives on flatlander largesse. Almost all of our holdings have been either donated or sold to us at bargain prices by newcomers to the state. They also contribute most of the money raised by our annual fund drives.

woodsy
2011-11-07, 18:24
Hmmm. Mainers seem to like flatlanders money about as well as they like other people's money. Do you have a plan for how we might keep them from buying Maine land? If so, let me know so I can oppose it.

I dislike their no tresspassing signs, but our town land trust pretty much survives on flatlander largesse. Almost all of our holdings have been either donated or sold to us at bargain prices by newcomers to the state. They also contribute most of the money raised by our annual fund drives.

Coastal Maine has been overrun with flatlanders buying off the locals for decades, not the case in northern maine.

Roxanne is about to meet her match with the sportsman groups in the area, not so easy to buy them folks, they can smell a rat from 100 miles away.

She ain't all that bright when it comes to negotiating with mainers from what
I've seen, not up north anyways. I recognize some of the company she keeps up that way, not impressed.

If she really cared about the locals like she claims she would give her land to the state of maine, not the feds, she is looking for fame thats all.

rcli4
2011-11-07, 18:35
I think they should build condo's on her land so the snowmobilers have a place to stay.

Skidsteer
2011-11-07, 18:37
Awesome gate Roxanne !! I mean, wow ! I've seen a lot of gates but that there is some serious gate.
This is what we get when we let flatlanders buy up maine land.

And now for the latest in the Roxanne saga:

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/11/07/news/penobscot/quimby-allows-snowmobile-clubs-access-to-her-lands-for-a-year/

I still don't get it. She's gonna allow snowmobiler's access to her land for recreational use and she's an asshole?

I have to say that if I owned that land I probably wouldn't let snowmobilers use it. Guess that makes me a bigger asshole.

woodsy
2011-11-07, 18:52
I still don't get it. She's gonna allow snowmobiler's access to her land for recreational use and she's an asshole?

I have to say that if I owned that land I probably wouldn't let snowmobilers use it. Guess that makes me a bigger asshole.

Just for 1 year , IF they ask permission, then she cuts them off for good once she gets their vote for her nat park study.

Skidsteer
2011-11-07, 19:07
Just for 1 year , IF they ask permission, then she cuts them off for good once she gets their vote for her nat park study.

It's her land. Period. End of the argument.

I am certain you would get your back up if people trespassed on your property, no? Or if they attempted to bully you into doing something with your land that you didn't want to do? Or tried to prevent you from doing something with your land that you did want to do?

You'd be pissed.

So what's the difference between you and Roxanne?

The only difference I can see is that she's rich.

Kanga
2011-11-07, 19:12
she also has more land?

Ray
2011-11-07, 20:06
she also has more land?... she's beautiful, she's rich, she has huge .... tracts of land. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YiPC91QUk)

woodsy
2011-11-07, 20:09
It's her land. Period. End of the argument.

I am certain you would get your back up if people trespassed on your property, no? Or if they attempted to bully you into doing something with your land that you didn't want to do? Or tried to prevent you from doing something with your land that you did want to do?

You'd be pissed.

So what's the difference between you and Roxanne?

The only difference I can see is that she's rich.


My land isn't posted or gated , help yourself, some nice pine stands to walk through, well maintained walking trails too, hunt if you want, no prob. snowmobile too except there are no trails through it to get anywhere.

No need to be a selfish bitch just cause you own some property.:aetsch:

Kanga
2011-11-07, 20:25
fuck that shit. GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

Skidsteer
2011-11-07, 20:50
fuck that shit. GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

:top:

Tin Man
2011-11-07, 20:53
fuck that shit. GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

...and take your damn dog poop with you...

woodsy
2011-11-07, 21:30
I still don't get it.


Duh!


Skidsteer;262339]It's her land. Period. End of the argument.


Never



The only difference I can see is that she's a bitch.

Agree!


fuck that shit. GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!


:top:

Someone say assholes ?

Skidsteer
2011-11-07, 21:32
Weren't you the guy that was bitching about your neighbor's dogs?

woodsy
2011-11-07, 21:36
Weren't you the same guy that was bitching about your neighbor's dogs?

Legitimate complaint, its called nuisance noise, state law supports it. :aetsch:

Skidsteer
2011-11-07, 21:38
Legitimate complaint, its called nuisance noise, state law supports it. :aetsch:

Well I agree. How would it be if the neighbor just let them loose to run and raise Hell on your property?

woodsy
2011-11-07, 21:41
Well I agree. How would it be if the neighbor just let them loose to run and raise Hell on your property?

Whats this got to do with a proposed nat. park in northern maine ?

Skidsteer
2011-11-07, 21:43
Whats this got to do with a proposed nat. park in northern maine ?

Let me refer you back to this post:


It's her land. Period. End of the argument.

warraghiyagey
2011-11-08, 08:42
So the end of the argument was two pages ago but it's still being argued.... I think your assertion is flawed.... :angel::angel::ahhhhh:

warraghiyagey
2011-11-08, 08:43
Just wait til the public finds out that she is not going to allow the effects of windchill on her property....


:angel:

Kanga
2011-11-08, 08:45
This is all the fault of the canadians.

Tin Man
2011-11-08, 09:15
what's their inseam? :albertein

woodsy
2011-11-08, 09:20
Couple three of us here(weary included) have tried to explain to some of you suburbanites how private lands in the north and western
woods of maine has worked well (mostly) with keeping it open to public use for varyious forms of recreation, hunting and fishing.

If you don't "get it" by now its probably beyond your comprehension ,

I will submit a link to last nights meeting (http://www.sunjournal.com/news/city/2011/11/08/forum-future-north-woods-fosters-dialogue/1112626) of some different groups on the issue.
And, if you will read it closely, there is a couple paragraphs where this private property/public use issue is clarified somewhat.

I see mention of Baxter Park being included in her park


the discussion focused on whether Maine's current balance of public and private land is appropriate and who should regulate land use. Roxanne Quimby's controversial proposal to create a federal North Woods National Park, mainly from land that she owns and the existing Baxter State Park, loomed large.

mudhead
2011-11-08, 09:30
I still don't get it. She's gonna allow snowmobiler's access to her land for recreational use and she's an asshole?


Linear trail that connects to ITS system. As much the way she has gone about the whole thing as anything else.


I have to say that if I owned that land I probably wouldn't let snowmobilers use it. Guess that makes me a bigger asshole.


I might not either. Hard to say.



I haven't read anything by anyone actually involved that that's part of the plan. Can you cite a source for that?



Which version of which plan from which time frame.
Bangor Daily News.
Portland Press Herald.
Wabi-tv.
Wlbz-tv.

Should be some archives there for you.


I would find it unfortunate but respect it if she were to buy the 1-2 million acres and post it "No Trespassing." Her right.

There are enough National Parks. I do not wish to fund another. Once it goes to a federal level every citizen is involved.

My opinion.

Crikey
2011-11-08, 10:31
Seems to me this is similar to an easement/ROW scenario.

On steroids.

Tin Man
2011-11-08, 13:30
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb168/rocketmarine/threadfail.jpg

Weary
2011-11-08, 14:29
I hate to be a belated reporter of this news, but starting three decades ago the federal government through its National Park Service quietly purchased around 35 thousand acres of Maine's mountains and forestlands with hardly a whisper of complaint or protest -- either then or since.

We now call those 35 thousand acres the Appalachian Trail corridor though Maine. Most of this corridor is 1,000 feet wide, though in places it expands to a mile or more to include the entire shoreline of some ponds.

None of the terrible things have happened that now are being predicted if Roxanne's proposed 70,000 acre gift is accepted, though a few of us complain that in places the corridor should have been wider to protect the trail surroundings from being developed and thus destroy the sense of wildness that makes the Maine trail so special.

A few are even trying to entice Roxanne Quimby to purchase land for important trail corridor buffers.

Crikey
2011-11-08, 15:54
I hate to be a belated reporter of this news, but starting three decades ago the federal government through its National Park Service quietly purchased around 35 thousand acres of Maine's mountains and forestlands with hardly a whisper of complaint or protest -- either then or since.


Actually this is done at all levels of government, all the time. Eminent domain.

However, not all of it is done "with hardly a whisper of complaint or protest".

john pickett
2011-11-08, 17:29
"I think your assertion is flawed" Lot's more than assertions flawed here, I think. :aetsch:

woodsy
2011-11-08, 17:32
weary: I hate to be a belated reporter of this news, but starting three decades ago the federal government through its National Park Service quietly purchased around 35 thousand acres of Maine's mountains and forestlands with hardly a whisper of complaint or protest -- either then or since.


Hmmm, Saddleback mtn comes to mind, hardy a whisper you say ? I don't think so but good try weary. You have a way of skirting and spinning issues that don't fit your agenda, typical writer :beer:

BTW, what was that in last nights article about Baxter park becoming part of the proposed Nat. Park ??????

Pervical will roll over in his coffin if he catches wind of that.

Big difference between national scenic corridors and National parks anyway.

Jester
2011-11-08, 18:30
BTW, what was that in last nights article about Baxter park becoming part of the proposed Nat. Park ??????


Not something Quimby said, as she wasn't at that meeting, nor was anyone representing her there.

A line written by a reporter without any attribution by that reporter doesn't mean very much, and it's entirely possible that the reporter was confusing a plan put forth in the 1930's to make Baxter a National Park (which Bryan Wentzell talked about at the meeting) with the present situation.

woodsy
2011-11-08, 18:41
Not something Quimby said, as she wasn't at that meeting, nor was anyone representing her there.

A line written by a reporter without any attribution by that reporter doesn't mean very much, and it's entirely possible that the reporter was confusing a plan put forth in the 1930's to make Baxter a National Park (which Bryan Wentzell talked about at the meeting) with the present situation.

Could be part of the grand scheme in the long run.
I read where Quimby was quoted saying she wanted to plant the seed, the seed being her 59,000 acres, last i knew she claimed she didn't really own 70,000.,
That seed will grow to millions of acres in the federal govts hands if she gets her foot in the door.

Jester
2011-11-08, 19:10
Could be part of the grand scheme in the long run.


Well, if we're voicing opposition to things that "could be part of the grand scheme" without any proof whatsoever that anyone involved has ever voiced such a sentiment, then the "Baxter Park being absorbed by the National Park" is really kind of weak. Why not just go for it?

How about this:

Would you be in favor of Quimby's plan if it involved her declaring her property to be a sovereign nation and that she planned to rule over it as queen? And that her plan involved building robots that would hunt and kill humans that crossed the border of her new nation? And that she would eventually betray humanity by leasing these robots to our future alien overlords?

No? Then watch out. It could be part of the grand scheme in the long run.

Weary
2011-11-08, 19:16
Hmmm, Saddleback mtn comes to mind, hardy a whisper you say ? I don't think so but good try weary. You have a way of skirting and spinning issues that don't fit your agenda, typical writer :beer:

BTW, what was that in last nights article about Baxter park becoming part of the proposed Nat. Park ??????

Pervical will roll over in his coffin if he catches wind of that.

Big difference between national scenic corridors and National parks anyway.
Well, Saddleback qualifies as a contrived whisper. The owner of a failed ski area, a Boston area chemist, saw a chance to make some big bucks. He refused to negotiate with the park service, and forbade the park service from even entering his property to do an appraisal.

Instead he worked the political circuit and eventually won his big bucks, thanks to Republican willingness to throw away the taxpayers money.

The rest of the trail corridor in Maine was protected "with hardly a whisper of controversy."

warraghiyagey
2011-11-08, 19:19
Would you be in favor of Quimby's plan if it involved her declaring her property to be a sovereign nation and that she planned to rule over it as queen?

OK.... I kinda like the flair behind this plan....

Skidsteer
2011-11-08, 19:36
OK.... I kinda like the flair behind this plan....

He's just shilling for a gig as her Jester.

Hog On Ice
2011-11-08, 20:07
a penny for your thoughts and a shilling for your ass???


nope I don't think that saying goes that way but funny if it did

woodsy
2011-11-08, 21:21
Jester;262481]Well, if we're voicing opposition to things that "could be part of the grand scheme" without any proof whatsoever that anyone involved has ever voiced such a sentiment, then the "Baxter Park being absorbed by the National Park" is really kind of weak. Why not just go for it?

Confucius say:
In cases like this, grandiose dreams backed by lots-o-money , you not only
have to question what they tell you but imagine what they are not telling you.

Yup, she has alluded to millions of preserved acres in northern maine,
you are way behind her curve ball here jester, sorry to have to be the one to tell ya.

Skidsteer
2011-11-08, 21:28
Confucius say:
In cases like this, grandiose dreams backed by lots-o-money , you not only
have to question what they tell you but imagine what they are not telling you.

Yup, she has alluded to millions of preserved acres in northern maine,
you are way behind her curve ball here jester, sorry to have to be the one to tell ya.

...............

warraghiyagey
2011-11-08, 21:29
http://sidesalad.net/archives/DelmarFromOBrotherWhereArtThou.jpg

Skidsteer
2011-11-08, 21:30
http://sidesalad.net/archives/DelmarFromOBrotherWhereArtThou.jpg

Nice. :biggrin:

warraghiyagey
2011-11-08, 21:38
:beer::beer:

Jester
2011-11-08, 22:09
Confucius say:
In cases like this, grandiose dreams backed by lots-o-money , you not only
have to question what they tell you but imagine what they are not telling you.


Well, you can imagine all you want. But if your arguments are based on what you imagine and not what people have actually said, then they're not particularly sound arguments.

woodsy
2011-11-08, 22:12
Well, you can imagine all you want. But if your arguments are based on what you imagine and not what people have actually said, then they're not particularly sound arguments.

Dude, or whatever you are, pull you skirt up and pull your head out of your ass, you ain't listening.

Crikey
2011-11-08, 22:18
Dude, or whatever you are, pull you skirt up and pull your head out of your ass, you ain't listening.

Now there's some Mainah speak right there. Yessir.

woodsy
2011-11-08, 22:29
Now there's some Mainah speak right there. Yessir.

:star:

and just getting warmed up

rcli4
2011-11-08, 23:59
Well, you can imagine all you want. But if your arguments are based on what you imagine and not what people have actually said, then they're not particularly sound arguments.

Jester, you are taking a weak piss into a strong wind. Your agruing with the guy that thinks the nieghbors dogs can't bark but the big landowner is supposed to listen to snow machines whining all night long all over their private property.

warraghiyagey
2011-11-09, 08:28
Confucius say:
In cases like this, grandiose dreams backed by lots-o-money , you not only
have to question what they tell you but imagine what they are not telling you.


Also: Just cuz you ain't paranoid doesn't mean they ain't out to getcha...


:beer:

woodsy
2011-11-09, 08:28
The people of the area have been heard.

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/11/09/news/penobscot/east-millinocket-voters-reject-national-park-feasibility-study/

warraghiyagey
2011-11-09, 08:36
The people of the area have been heard.

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/11/09/news/penobscot/east-millinocket-voters-reject-national-park-feasibility-study/

:beer::beer:
See, you can argue all you want that someone has the right to do whaqtever they want with the land the own but if it was that cut and dried there would be no such thing as a local Zoning Board or Zoning Board of Appeals... because communities and the citizenry have long had a right to discuss their opinions about what happens to the land around them.... anyone who believes the neighborhood (and in Maine they can be quite vast) doesn't have the right to raise their voices or concerns is missing out on one of the staple rights our society has long been about.... I applaud Woodsy and the other folk from Maine who have and continue to speak up.... :beer::beer:

Superman
2011-11-09, 08:45
:beer::beer:
See, you can argue all you want that someone has the right to do whaqtever they want with the land the own but if it was that cut and dried there would be no such thing as a local Zoning Board or Zoning Board of Appeals... because communities and the citizenry have long had a right to discuss their opinions about what happens to the land around them.... anyone who believes the neighborhood (and in Maine they can be quite vast) doesn't have the right to raise their voices or concerns is missing out on one of the staple rights our society has long been about.... I applaud Woodsy and the other folk from Maine who have and continue to speak up.... :beer::beer:

The town I live in in NH has zero zoning. The only land that is posted is what is owned by flat landers. I have people fish on my land along the Smith River and they cut across to access the fishing. It's not a problem, there is a long standing tradition of such use and if I posted my land (my right to do) the locals would damn sure have something to say to me. Just sayin

warraghiyagey
2011-11-09, 08:48
The town I live in in NH has zero zoning. The only land that is posted is what is owned by flat landers. I have people fish on my land along the Smith River and they cut across to access the fishing. It's not a problem, there is a long standing tradition of such use and if I posted my land (my right to do) the locals would damn sure have something to say to me. Just sayin

Exactly.... even in areas where there is no zoning per se, people still have opinions and they needn't be right nor wrong.... I sat in on many ZB meetings in the Finger Lakes when wind farm developers were buying land for said projects.... their were opinions all across the spectrum of that subject, right or wrong or no such thing, they had the right to at least state their opinions to the community..... and it was the communites as a whole that had the final say, not the land owners...

:beer:

Crikey
2011-11-09, 10:36
I bought land in the NC mountains that has a road to the next lot. Before I closed I understood that the road was there for ingress/egress to that lot and I couldn't build on it, and that it was part of the larger road in the area.

Do these lands have similar easements grandfathered in?

Weary
2011-11-09, 11:50
I bought land in the NC mountains that has a road to the next lot. Before I closed I understood that the road was there for ingress/egress to that lot and I couldn't build on it, and that it was part of the larger road in the area.

Do these lands have similar easements grandfathered in?
There may be some easements built in, but the wildlands of Maine operate under rules that may not exist in most states. Maine -- and earlier Massachusetts -- sold their public domains in township and larger blocks with no guaranteed access rights. Buyers needed the cooperation of previous buyers to get to their holdings, and to ensure that cooperation, allowed similar trespass to buyers that followed. The system has worked ever since.

The issue arose when a few years ago Maine won control of the 400,000 acres of public lands it had reserved when it sold most of its public domain a century earlier. City folks complained that the state was swapping scattered public lots for large parcels to which it had no deeded access.

An obscure state statute helped resolved the problem. Maine law has long forbid the existence of landlocked parcels. If such a parcel is created, the owner need only petition to courts to lay out a ROW through neighboring property. Neighbors can not only be required to grant access, they must pay their share of the cost of construction since a road is presumed to benefit both landowners.

Snowmobilers and ATVers don't benefit because they don't own any property. They are just squatters

Jester
2011-11-09, 13:58
:beer::beer:
See, you can argue all you want that someone has the right to do whaqtever they want with the land the own but if it was that cut and dried there would be no such thing as a local Zoning Board or Zoning Board of Appeals... because communities and the citizenry have long had a right to discuss their opinions about what happens to the land around them.... anyone who believes the neighborhood (and in Maine they can be quite vast) doesn't have the right to raise their voices or concerns is missing out on one of the staple rights our society has long been about.... I applaud Woodsy and the other folk from Maine who have and continue to speak up.... :beer::beer:

I have yet to see anyone here say that locals don't have the right to raise their voices or concerns.

And I have yet to see anyone here say that Quimby has the right to do absolutely anything she wants with her land.

I have seen people here say that other people don't have the right to do whatever they want on her land, though.

Jester
2011-11-09, 14:20
Dude, or whatever you are, pull you skirt up and pull your head out of your ass, you ain't listening.

A few years ago in an ALDHA General Meeting, we were having a debate about raising membership dues. There were a bunch of people who said it was some sort of tradition that the dues remain at $7, the cost that it had been since the late 80's.

In giving my support to the raising of dues, I said the following to those people: You have choices, but one of them isn't for things to stay the same and for you to get everything you want for seven dollars. Here are your two choices: raise the dues, or get less from your membership.

After that, many of them took their heads out of their asses and voted for raising the dues so that they could continue to get the directory and newsletters.

I guess what confuses me here is where Quimby's opponents think the end game leads, but I suspect they're not thinking about that at all as they concentrate on coming up with reasons why National Parks are bad and Quimby is a bad neighbor. So maybe someone could explain to me what best case reality based scenarios are for her opponents.

Here's what I see from afar:
In the past, the major landholders in Maine were Paper & Lumber companies, who had no problem with allowing public use of their lands because such use didn't interfere in any way with why the companies valued the land, which revolved around harvesting trees. This was good PR for the companies at no cost to them.

Moving more towards the present, people from away (not just Quimby) are the people in a position to buy parcels of land being sold by the paper & lumber companies. Many of them will continue the tradition of allowing public access, but many will not, because, unlike with the lumber companies, these people don't necessarily value (and didn't buy) the land for its harvest.

Now, if you think that the end game of all of this results in Quimby continuing to own the land AND letting others do what they wish on it, or if you think that the end game results in Quimby giving up and selling the land at a loss, then she isn't the person you claim she is.

It may be possible that neither of the things that each side wants is actually possible in reality. But if you want anything at all as part of the final outcome, villifying Quimby, calling her a bitch and a liar, and telling everyone else that they don't understand 'cause they're not from there isn't the way to go.

If things staying exactly the way they've been isn't an option, what do locals think is a viable alternative?

D'Artagnan
2011-11-09, 15:00
A few years ago in an ALDHA General Meeting, we were having a debate about raising membership dues. There were a bunch of people who said it was some sort of tradition that the dues remain at $7, the cost that it had been since the late 80's.

In giving my support to the raising of dues, I said the following to those people: You have choices, but one of them isn't for things to stay the same and for you to get everything you want for seven dollars. Here are your two choices: raise the dues, or get less from your membership.

After that, many of them took their heads out of their asses and voted for raising the dues so that they could continue to get the directory and newsletters.

I guess what confuses me here is where Quimby's opponents think the end game leads, but I suspect they're not thinking about that at all as they concentrate on coming up with reasons why National Parks are bad and Quimby is a bad neighbor. So maybe someone could explain to me what best case reality based scenarios are for her opponents.

Here's what I see from afar:
In the past, the major landholders in Maine were Paper & Lumber companies, who had no problem with allowing public use of their lands because such use didn't interfere in any way with why the companies valued the land, which revolved around harvesting trees. This was good PR for the companies at no cost to them.

Moving more towards the present, people from away (not just Quimby) are the people in a position to buy parcels of land being sold by the paper & lumber companies. Many of them will continue the tradition of allowing public access, but many will not, because, unlike with the lumber companies, these people don't necessarily value (and didn't buy) the land for its harvest.

Now, if you think that the end game of all of this results in Quimby continuing to own the land AND letting others do what they wish on it, or if you think that the end game results in Quimby giving up and selling the land at a loss, then she isn't the person you claim she is.

It may be possible that neither of the things that each side wants is actually possible in reality. But if you want anything at all as part of the final outcome, villifying Quimby, calling her a bitch and a liar, and telling everyone else that they don't understand 'cause they're not from there isn't the way to go.

If things staying exactly the way they've been isn't an option, what do locals think is a viable alternative?



There you go again Jester, allowing reason to cloud your argument! :beer:

Weary
2011-11-09, 15:02
A few years ago in an ALDHA General Meeting, we were having a debate about raising membership dues. There were a bunch of people who said it was some sort of tradition that the dues remain at $7, the cost that it had been since the late 80's.

In giving my support to the raising of dues, I said the following to those people: You have choices, but one of them isn't for things to stay the same and for you to get everything you want for seven dollars. Here are your two choices: raise the dues, or get less from your membership.

After that, many of them took their heads out of their asses and voted for raising the dues so that they could continue to get the directory and newsletters.

I guess what confuses me here is where Quimby's opponents think the end game leads, but I suspect they're not thinking about that at all as they concentrate on coming up with reasons why National Parks are bad and Quimby is a bad neighbor. So maybe someone could explain to me what best case reality based scenarios are for her opponents.

Here's what I see from afar:
In the past, the major landholders in Maine were Paper & Lumber companies, who had no problem with allowing public use of their lands because such use didn't interfere in any way with why the companies valued the land, which revolved around harvesting trees. This was good PR for the companies at no cost to them.

Moving more towards the present, people from away (not just Quimby) are the people in a position to buy parcels of land being sold by the paper & lumber companies. Many of them will continue the tradition of allowing public access, but many will not, because, unlike with the lumber companies, these people don't necessarily value (and didn't buy) the land for its harvest.

Now, if you think that the end game of all of this results in Quimby continuing to own the land AND letting others do what they wish on it, or if you think that the end game results in Quimby giving up and selling the land at a loss, then she isn't the person you claim she is.

It may be possible that neither of the things that each side wants is actually possible in reality. But if you want anything at all as part of the final outcome, villifying Quimby, calling her a bitch and a liar, and telling everyone else that they don't understand 'cause they're not from there isn't the way to go.

If things staying exactly the way they've been isn't an option, what do locals think is a viable alternative?
Don't expect an answer -- or at least a sensible answer. The opponent are dreaming that the "good old days" will return. They won't. That became clear years ago, when wall street ordained that the land that kept the mills thriving be sold to the highest bidders.

The mill managers got bonuses for boosting "profits" while the sales continued. Thousands of people lost their jobs, but continue to dream that the good times will somehow return.

Sadly, it aint gonna happen.

A park is not the ideal future for those of us who prefer a working forest. But it is the best realistic future for most of the land that has changed hands. Some has been bought by the Nature Conservancy and preserved as semi wilderness. Some has been turned into 25,000 acre vacation estates. Much has been purchased for luxury resorts and vacation homes.

Development has been delayed by the economic doldrums. But that is the future -- that or a National Park.

Wise Old Owl
2011-11-09, 18:27
Crap 14 pages of this? are you out of your minds?


Have you ever seen Maine from a plane? its one big forest... and very flat.

Superman
2011-11-09, 18:33
Crap 14 pages of this? are you out of your minds?


Have you ever seen Maine from a plane? its one big forest... and very flat.

That's not a nice thing to say...take it back.

Weary
2011-11-09, 18:43
.....Have you ever seen Maine from a plane? its one big forest... and very flat.
That's why it's unique in the east -- 10 million acres with no public roads and no organized communities and only 10,000 residents. Though it's mostly flat, it also has the wildest and most rugged mountains east of the Rockies, dozens of wild rivers and streams, and the wildest section of the entire Appalachian Trail.

A few years ago my wife and I spent six weeks exploring the northern tier National Parks, west to Olympia. Earlier I had visited the southerly national parks. My thought when we returned: "the proposed Maine North Woods National Park would equal or exceed the best of what the National Park system has to offer."

Crikey
2011-11-09, 22:30
Have you ever seen Maine from a plane?

Does the rain in Maine fall mainly in the plane?

Did you say -

The Plane?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__iHzedtY3VA/TJqbg7FW-5I/AAAAAAAAB9E/4qfUIXLoPAM/s1600/fantasy-island.jpg

Tin Man
2011-11-09, 23:38
That's not a nice thing to say...take it back.

this thread is as much fun as nails on a chalkboard... and about as productive

Ray
2011-11-09, 23:47
this thread is as much fun as nails on a chalkboard... and about as productiveJust goes to show ... that lady should have come to Georgia and bought our land. We've never had problems with snowmobiles.

Tin Man
2011-11-10, 00:02
Just goes to show ... that lady should have come to Georgia and bought our land. We've never had problems with snowmobiles.

oh really???

http://www.lilligren.com/Redneck/images/redneck_snowmobile.jpg

Jester
2011-11-10, 00:43
Just goes to show ... that lady should have come to Georgia and bought our land. We've never had problems with snowmobiles.

Unless yer doin' this:

3JIQ5fo8oLU

Roche
2011-11-14, 21:06
Crap 14 pages of this? are you out of your minds?

WOO you have to admit there are some funny zingers in here.:rock:

What the hell was this thread about again?

Law Dawg (ret)
2011-11-15, 13:32
What the hell was this thread about again?

Some broad from Maine giving away her land ay-up. Wonder if I could sneak in some single track riding there before the Feds grab it all up? :evil:

Roche
2011-11-17, 09:29
So this a mystery thriller involving Miss Roxeanne Quimby and Mr Land Trust - which one is the hero and which one is the villain?

Weary
2011-11-17, 11:52
Some broad from Maine giving away her land ay-up. Wonder if I could sneak in some single track riding there before the Feds grab it all up? :evil:
Actually it is a more interesting story than your summary indicates. The "broad" isn't from Maine. She's a woman who came to Maine a few decades ago as part of the back to the land movement. She and her companion built a tiny cabin with no indoor plumbing, and had a couple of kids -- one of whom became a thru hiker a few years ago.

When the family split she started a home business for support that she eventually expanded, moved to Georgia, and sold for a quarter of a billion dollars. She then moved to Portland (Maine) and used her money to start a couple of non-profit foundations. One has promoted Maine's growing community of artists. The second has devoted itself to acquiring key portions of the wildlands being sold by a dying pulp and paper industry before it's all gobbled up by land speculators and developers.

Because she is getting older she now is seeking permanent protection for the land she is acquiring. Her first choice, apparently, is to seed a Maine Woods National Park -- an idea that has been floating around at least since the 1930s.

Like virtually every national park that this country has established neighbors of the proposed park are opposed. They seem to have no alternative proposal for the land, other than a vague dream that the industrial forest will return.

But every state wide poll I've seen suggest that most Maine people support the park idea.

The unorganized townships in northern and western Maine are among the sparsest populated areas in the entire United States, which make them a natural candidate for a new park. By happenstance, last night I was at a totally unrelated meeting. But shown was a nighttime satellite view of the nation. The undeveloped 10 million Maine acres were one big black spot, where no lights of development could be seen anywhere.

Virtually no one will be displaced if a park is created. I've spent much of my life exploring and writing about these wildlands. I've also made a point of comparing the potential for a Maine park with other existing parks across the nation.

As I posted before, it's my judgment that a large Maine park would equal or exceed the best of the National Parks. It wouldn't be the most popular national parks. We lack the vast vistas of Yosemite, or the canyonlands, and high mountains that make startling photos, but no other park provides a better environment for camping, hiking and generally enjoying a wild northern near rain forest and landscape.

Kanga
2011-11-17, 11:59
That is the best post you have ever written.

Law Dawg (ret)
2011-11-17, 12:50
What the hell was this thread about again?

Well Roche, what Weary said then (well 'splained Weary). Sounds like she is kind of a reverse carpet bagger. ;)

Wonder if there are any good single track trails there? :ahhhhh:

sheepdog
2011-11-17, 18:47
That is the best post you have ever written.

could you sum it up so I don't have to wade through it??

rcli4
2011-11-17, 19:10
could you sum it up so I don't have to wade through it??

She is an old hippe trying to do something good

Skidsteer
2011-11-17, 19:27
Brilliant.

sheepdog
2011-11-17, 22:03
She is an old hippe trying to do something good

thanks

Tin Man
2011-11-17, 22:21
She is an old hippe trying to do something good

...and some folks want their cake but are not willing to pay for it.



nice summary weary. it's nice to hear that some maniacs think they have a nice black hole.

Weary
2011-11-18, 00:23
could you sum it up so I don't have to wade through it??
Sorry Sheepdog. I had forgotten that there's a group on Hiking HQ unable to comprehend more than a dozen words in a row.

sheepdog
2011-11-18, 09:28
Sorry Sheepdog. I had forgotten that there's a group on Hiking HQ unable to comprehend more than a dozen words in a row.

ok
try to do more better the next time

Tin Man
2011-11-18, 11:42
ok
try to do more better the next time

i thought less was more ... better

mudhead
2011-11-18, 12:38
Actually it is a more interesting story than your summary indicates. The "broad" isn't from Maine. She's a woman who came to Maine a few decades ago as part of the back to the land movement. She and her companion built a tiny cabin with no indoor plumbing, and had a couple of kids -- one of whom became a thru hiker a few years ago.

When the family split she started a home business for support that she eventually expanded, moved to Georgia, and sold for a quarter of a billion dollars. She then moved to Portland (Maine) and used her money to start a couple of non-profit foundations. One has promoted Maine's growing community of artists. The second has devoted itself to acquiring key portions of the wildlands being sold by a dying pulp and paper industry before it's all gobbled up by land speculators and developers.

Because she is getting older she now is seeking permanent protection for the land she is acquiring. Her first choice, apparently, is to seed a Maine Woods National Park -- an idea that has been floating around at least since the 1930s.

Like virtually every national park that this country has established neighbors of the proposed park are opposed. They seem to have no alternative proposal for the land, other than a vague dream that the industrial forest will return.

But every state wide poll I've seen suggest that most Maine people support the park idea.

The unorganized townships in northern and western Maine are among the sparsest populated areas in the entire United States, which make them a natural candidate for a new park. By happenstance, last night I was at a totally unrelated meeting. But shown was a nighttime satellite view of the nation. The undeveloped 10 million Maine acres were one big black spot, where no lights of development could be seen anywhere.

Virtually no one will be displaced if a park is created. I've spent much of my life exploring and writing about these wildlands. I've also made a point of comparing the potential for a Maine park with other existing parks across the nation.

As I posted before, it's my judgment that a large Maine park would equal or exceed the best of the National Parks. It wouldn't be the most popular national parks. We lack the vast vistas of Yosemite, or the canyonlands, and high mountains that make startling photos, but no other park provides a better environment for camping, hiking and generally enjoying a wild northern near rain forest and landscape.


That is the best post you have ever written.

It is typical of the bullshit he posts. Doesn't even have the state she took her company to correct.

How is that artist thing working?

It is a polarizing thing. Pro types won't even consider anything but a grandiose NP. Even the friggin' moose don't find some of that swamp all that appealing.

Ray
2011-11-18, 13:56
Doesn't even have the state she took her company to correct.Georgia, North Carolina, whatever. Somewhere down there. I think his point was she didn't end up where she started but now she's back.

Law Dawg (ret)
2011-11-18, 14:37
She is an old hippe trying to do something good

:rofl:

I've heard the path to Hell is paved with good intentions. :flute:

The title old hippie always makes me wonder if the subject spoken of is one of the spitters my cousins and friends returned to from S.E.A.? One thing for sure; for me to be consistent I have to say if the land is her's, she is entitled to do with it as she desires.

Weary
2011-11-18, 15:48
It is typical of the bullshit he posts. Doesn't even have the state she took her company to correct. How is that artist thing working? It is a polarizing thing. Pro types won't even consider anything but a grandiose NP. Even the friggin' moose don't find some of that swamp all that appealing.
Sorry, I missed the state she moved her business to. I did manage to spell her first name correctly. Some mistakenly seem to think it's Roxeanne.

Those who want to know about Roxanne, her art efforts, and her foundation's board of directors should open:

http://www.quimbyfamilyfoundation.org/Home/BoardofDirectors/tabid/53/Default.aspx

As for pro types. I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself. I have long thought that a large national park and public federal preserve in Maine's north woods would be an excellent use of the land, now that the pulp and paper industry is in decline. Her proposed gift would be a step in that direction, I think.

It's a vast area. Even a 3 million acre public preserve would still leave ample woodland to support the remnants of the pulp and paper and lumber industries. Ideally such a preserve should allow hunting. Since most major predators are extinct, hunting is required to maintain wildlife balance.

Nor is this a far fetched goal. The Nature Conservancy already owns around a half million acres. The state of Maine already owns a half million acres outright, and a couple of million acres of public access easements. Even the AT corridor, which is owned by the National Park Service. should be included.

Baxter Park has to be excluded from any new federal ownership, but I suspect the other state and private conservation ownerships would eventually be amenable to a properly thought out federal federal park/preserve plan.

This truly would be a major and important addition to the national park system.

Skidsteer
2011-11-18, 15:52
Ideally such a preserve should allow hunting. Since most of major predators are extinct, hunting is required to maintain wildlife balance.

I agree.

Do you think allowing hunting would soften the attitudes of those protesting the idea of a Park?

sheepdog
2011-11-18, 16:11
Actually it is a more interesting story than your summary indicates. The "broad" isn't from Maine. She's a woman who came to Maine a few decades ago as part of the back to the land movement. She and her companion built a tiny cabin with no indoor plumbing, and had a couple of kids -- one of whom became a thru hiker a few years ago.

When the family split she started a home business for support that she eventually expanded, moved to Georgia, and sold for a quarter of a billion dollars. She then moved to Portland (Maine) and used her money to start a couple of non-profit foundations. One has promoted Maine's growing community of artists. The second has devoted itself to acquiring key portions of the wildlands being sold by a dying pulp and paper industry before it's all gobbled up by land speculators and developers.

Because she is getting older she now is seeking permanent protection for the land she is acquiring. Her first choice, apparently, is to seed a Maine Woods National Park -- an idea that has been floating around at least since the 1930s.

Like virtually every national park that this country has established neighbors of the proposed park are opposed. They seem to have no alternative proposal for the land, other than a vague dream that the industrial forest will return.

But every state wide poll I've seen suggest that most Maine people support the park idea.

The unorganized townships in northern and western Maine are among the sparsest populated areas in the entire United States, which make them a natural candidate for a new park. By happenstance, last night I was at a totally unrelated meeting. But shown was a nighttime satellite view of the nation. The undeveloped 10 million Maine acres were one big black spot, where no lights of development could be seen anywhere.

Virtually no one will be displaced if a park is created. I've spent much of my life exploring and writing about these wildlands. I've also made a point of comparing the potential for a Maine park with other existing parks across the nation.

As I posted before, it's my judgment that a large Maine park would equal or exceed the best of the National Parks. It wouldn't be the most popular national parks. We lack the vast vistas of Yosemite, or the canyonlands, and high mountains that make startling photos, but no other park provides a better environment for camping, hiking and generally enjoying a wild northern near rain forest and landscape.
I like the part where she isn't from Maine, she just showed up a few decades ago. You know " that new lady that moved in twenty years ago."

generoll
2011-11-18, 17:44
just wondering, if it's not economically feasible to log and it's uninhabited and without industry, who cares if it's a government park or not?

warraghiyagey
2011-11-18, 21:22
just wondering, if it's not economically feasible to log and it's uninhabited and without industry, who cares if it's a government park or not?

Because..... THAT'S why!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....

generoll
2011-11-18, 22:20
Because..... THAT'S why!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....

OK, thanks for explaining it.

mudhead
2011-11-19, 10:03
Georgia, North Carolina, whatever. Somewhere down there. I think his point was she didn't end up where she started but now she's back.

Whatever?

no one will be displaced

whatever

Several fine places are protected as state property.

Why should it be given to the Feds?

Because residents from other states think it would be a good idea?

Poxy wants to buy 3 million acres and turn it into a preserve- that is her biz.

warraghiyagey
2011-11-19, 20:41
OK, thanks for explaining it.

:star::star: