PDA

View Full Version : Dutchware no-knot bear bagging update - Givin' The Dog a Bone



SGT Rock
2012-01-19, 11:06
I came up with this last night and tested it out today. It is so simple it should be illegal!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Su8fy0JUQ

s9Su8fy0JUQ

rhjanes
2012-01-19, 11:44
neat. After I watched you "thread" that PVC pipe, I was thinking of a way to cut a slot into it, so you'd not have to thread. The "bone" is much better.

Crikey
2012-01-19, 11:54
Very cool, I'm gonna try this.

Hey Rock - how about in one of your vids you just go off and scream "What is your major malfunction!!".

SGT Rock
2012-01-19, 11:59
I can do that. I've got another one to work on for next week. It's a new gear prototype that the maker asked me to wait until next week to release.

Hint: It's Dutchware too.

Law Dawg (ret)
2012-01-19, 12:14
-_Fav3iPTE0

Hey Rock, how about a close up on the method?

SGT Rock
2012-01-19, 15:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8De7Jhjd6tM
8De7Jhjd6tM

Hog On Ice
2012-01-19, 15:31
Rock - is this the bone you used?

http://shop.whoopieslings.com/Nite-Ize-Knot-KnotBone-3-KB3-03.htm

SGT Rock
2012-01-19, 15:38
Yep. Looks like they must break a pack and sell them individually.

Something I've tried is carrying two of them. That way you can use one as a handle for raising the bag while tying a second.

Hog On Ice
2012-01-19, 15:42
one thing that puzzles me is that the load limit is so low - I was casually thinking of using a couple of them as part of the backpacking chair suspension but I need something that can handle more of a load

SGT Rock
2012-01-19, 15:43
What do you need it to do? I'm testing a prototype of something that is rated to 1000 lbs.

Hog On Ice
2012-01-19, 15:48
I was thinking of making it an adjustment point for the line going to the front stick - have the bone in the line holding the rear stick then the line to the front stick is looped above the bone - adjust by moving the bone up and down on the rear stick line

I probably could do this with a taut line hitch anyways so it was just a casual hummm I wonder if that would work type of an idea

Spogatz
2012-01-19, 15:55
What do you need it to do? I'm testing a prototype of something that is rated to 1000 lbs.

That might hold my food up....I gets pretty hungry...hehehe

SGT Rock
2012-01-19, 15:58
What I'm testing is more of a hook for a line, no adjustment point. I'll be publishing it Monday with permission of the developer.

Law Dawg (ret)
2012-01-20, 12:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8De7Jhjd6tM
8De7Jhjd6tM

The Knot Bone I get, it was the line back through the biner and how the Bone holds the bag up mechanics that I missed drill sergeant. :ahhhhh: Had to put on my extra strong cheaters and pay close attention to the full view of your original video to "get it".

Rosaleen
2012-01-21, 15:27
Too Funny!

I played this while hubby was across the room. He gave me this "What the ...?" look. I told him the speaker is an Army retiree who was asked to give the speil. Once he figured out it was SGT Rock, he just smiled in understanding.

So, where does one get this titanium knot bone? It is not yet listed on Dutchware.TreeToTrailGear.

Rosaleen

Crikey
2012-01-21, 19:44
Rock, you are the best.

Them there internets is a cool thing.

SGT Rock
2012-01-21, 20:17
The Knot Bone I get, it was the line back through the biner and how the Bone holds the bag up mechanics that I missed drill sergeant. :ahhhhh: Had to put on my extra strong cheaters and pay close attention to the full view of your original video to "get it".
Ohhhh. Sorry. If you look at a video for PCT hang you get the basic idea.

Too Funny!

I played this while hubby was across the room. He gave me this "What the ...?" look. I told him the speaker is an Army retiree who was asked to give the speil. Once he figured out it was SGT Rock, he just smiled in understanding.

So, where does one get this titanium knot bone? It is not yet listed on Dutchware.TreeToTrailGear.

Rosaleen
http://www.outdoortrailgear.com/featured/dutch-ridgeline-biners/ he sells the ti and aluminum biners on the same page. You want to specify Ti at $5.50.

Rock, you are the best.

Them there internets is a cool thing.

No problem.

atraildreamer
2012-01-22, 17:24
That video was a real revelation. :dong: So...all you ex-Sergeants really do talk that way! :argh: I thought it was just something that Hollywood made up! :burnout:

Cuffs
2012-01-22, 17:48
Two comments...

Isn't that the same stretch of road where a coupla cars went in the ditch last year??

Hate to tell ya, but you're gonna have to think about doing the whole video over... It's KnotBone not Bone Knot... :biggrin:

sheepdog
2012-01-22, 19:49
Two comments...

Isn't that the same stretch of road where a coupla cars went in the ditch last year??

Hate to tell ya, but you're gonna have to think about doing the whole video over... It's KnotBone not Bone Knot... :biggrin:

kno it's knot :aetsch:

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 19:59
Yep same stretch

Superman
2012-01-22, 20:09
kno it's knot :aetsch:

You could be jailed for the things you say.:albertein

Ray
2012-01-22, 20:13
It's KnotBone not Bone Knot... If the Sargent says its Bone Knot then by gawd its Bone Knot.

I can tell you weren't in the Army.

sheepdog
2012-01-22, 20:13
You could be jailed for the things you say.:albertein

I also gots the right to bare arms.

Superman
2012-01-22, 20:20
I also gots the right to bare arms.

Dern, you gave up that right and the right to vote when you became an inmate. Just sayin.:albertein

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 21:41
Two comments...

Isn't that the same stretch of road where a coupla cars went in the ditch last year??

Hate to tell ya, but you're gonna have to think about doing the whole video over... It's KnotBone not Bone Knot... :biggrin:


If the Sargent says its Bone Knot then by gawd its Bone Knot.

I can tell you weren't in the Army.What he said. I really don't give a shit what they want to call it. They will sell more if they get in line with me:gob_!

Lugnut
2012-01-22, 21:59
Why couldn't you just use a key ring? Loop the line through then back around the ring works for me. They weigh almost nothing and only cost a quarter. And it's easier to pronounce. :angel:

Big Mac
2012-01-22, 22:08
Why couldn't you just use a key ring? Loop the line through then back around the ring works for me. They weigh almost nothing and only cost a quarter. And it's easier to pronounce. :angel:

Then you don't get to say bone knot.


Bone Knot, huh- huh, huh- huh. :-)

Hog On Ice
2012-01-22, 22:10
that's a real good idea Lugnut - doesn't need to be a key ring - any ring would work - for example a plastic washer

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 22:10
Why couldn't you just use a key ring? Loop the line through then back around the ring works for me. They weigh almost nothing and only cost a quarter. And it's easier to pronounce. :angel:

I'm not sure I understand how you keep in place on the line to stop the line from feeding through it.

sheepdog
2012-01-22, 22:11
Dern, you gave up that right and the right to vote when you became an inmate. Just sayin.:albertein

Hey!!

you got the right to remain silent :biggrin:

Hog On Ice
2012-01-22, 22:12
I'm not sure I understand how you keep in place on the line to stop the line from feeding through it.

he's making a larks head knot on the ring - I think it would work just fine but I would want to try it for sure with a heavy bag

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 22:18
I'm not a genius at knots, so maybe I am just not getting it, but if the line is already going up to the bag, how will you make a larks head through a washer?

Hog On Ice
2012-01-22, 22:20
an example is ABOK 1860

Hog On Ice
2012-01-22, 22:22
the hand holding the bag up holds a bight (ie line is folded over) - feed the bight through the ring with other hand and pull bight over the ring to form the knot

sheepdog
2012-01-22, 22:22
I'm not a genius at knots, so maybe I am just not getting it, but if the line is already going up to the bag, how will you make a larks head through a washer?

sounds cruel

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 22:30
I sort of get it. Now wouldn't the edges create issues for the rope? And if there is a lot of weight wouldn't the ring deform. I know I've bent some up doing some fairly innocuous stuff.

Hog On Ice
2012-01-22, 22:43
gkyXhfyq-zY

here is an example

I agree wrt edges - I would look for a ring with a smoother round cross section like a descender ring but smaller

bent or not so long as the ring does not go through the biner its good

my concern is untying the knot from a plastic ring - might be best to use a small metal ring like a small key ring as Lugnut suggested

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 22:51
That would be pretty smooth. As I recall descender rings are pretty heavy. Maybe a titanium wedding ring:
http://www.amazon.com/Titanium-Comfort-Sizes-Styles-Available/dp/B0034EE3OS

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31OnwLIp%2BPL.jpg that way it could be dual use

$4 for this one.

Hog On Ice
2012-01-22, 22:58
wish I had a gram scale - I have a few of the small key rings - cheap at lowes (less than a dollar for two)

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 23:04
My scale reads grams. The steel key ring I use is 4 grams without the keys.

Spogatz
2012-01-22, 23:18
I got a great scale at Costco for 19 bucks. Does Lbs and grams.

Hog On Ice
2012-01-22, 23:20
what does a knot bone weigh?

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 23:22
4 grams. My titanium wedding band also weighs 4 grams.

Hog On Ice
2012-01-22, 23:25
to me it sounds like a win for the key ring - cheap and somewhat multiuse - although off hand I can't think of another use for a small ring when hiking/camping

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 23:31
Maybe Dutch will make a Ti ring for 1 gram at $2.

I'm tapatalkin' ya'll

Lugnut
2012-01-22, 23:34
to me it sounds like a win for the key ring - cheap and somewhat multiuse - although off hand I can't think of another use for a small ring when hiking/camping

Skids could marry Hikerchick. :ahhhhh:

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 23:45
I just ordered one of those cheap titanium rings. I'll see how much it weighs LOL.

SGT Rock
2012-01-22, 23:50
One thought on the 'biner, it seems you would want to make sure your ring wouldn't pass through the 'biner. If a washer is used in a larks head, if the ring is small enough it could conceivably pass through the biner instead of stopping at it.

Law Dawg (ret)
2012-01-23, 14:21
what does a knot bone weigh?


4 grams. My titanium wedding band also weighs 4 grams.

Well OK...but what does a bone knot weigh!? :burnout:

SGT Rock
2012-01-23, 14:22
Grams 4

Crikey
2012-01-23, 15:10
I just ordered one of those cheap titanium rings. I'll see how much it weighs LOL.

http://images.wikia.com/lotr/images/3/34/Frodo.jpg

I got my ring free from this dude. But weird shit is happening and a bunch of freaks keep following me.

john pickett
2012-01-23, 16:07
+1 for Sherrill

Big Mac
2012-01-23, 16:33
http://images.wikia.com/lotr/images/3/34/Frodo.jpg

I got my ring free from this dude. But weird shit is happening and a bunch of freaks keep following me.

http://www.ancienttechnique.com/forums/userpix/2_schmiegel_1.jpg

rhjanes
2012-01-24, 11:14
That buy with the hair, definatly a tenter.....the weird guy, he had his hammock set up next to mine a month ago. He claimed he was Yoda's cousin. They sure talk alot about nothing. Ring this, My Precious, There is no try, DO, junk.

atraildreamer
2012-01-24, 14:54
That would be pretty smooth. As I recall descender rings are pretty heavy. Maybe a titanium wedding ring:
http://www.amazon.com/Titanium-Comfort-Sizes-Styles-Available/dp/B0034EE3OS

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31OnwLIp%2BPL.jpg that way it could be dual use

$4 for this one.

Only $4! I bought my gold wedding band 31 years ago for $88. That was the first installment. The payments never end when you are married! :biggrin:

Hog On Ice
2012-01-25, 17:09
I was testing a couple rings today - one was the soft flexible ring from a Target pharmacy pill bottle and one was a rather short piece of 3/4 inch Sch40 PVC pipe - both worked and both surprisingly were easy to untie. The load I was using was some tools in a bag - estimated weight was around 40 pounds - the thought I had was what if I were to hang my whole pack or multiple food bags - pics are attached

I used the 1.9mm Spyderline for the cord and a small 'biner that came with a Sea-to-Summit long handled Ti spoon

As you can see from the pics the flexible ring was rather distorted - enough so I probably would not trust it to not be pulled through the biner. The PVC pipe worked just fine - I had beveled the edges and it did not damage the line or the line did not distort the PVC.

Lugnut
2012-01-25, 18:24
Well then +1 for me. :angel:

Hog On Ice
2012-01-25, 18:31
ahhh yep

SGT Rock
2012-01-26, 08:25
How much did the pcv pipe weigh? I've got some 3/4" stuff here somewhere.

Hog On Ice
2012-01-26, 08:33
beats me - I don't have a gram scale - its fairly light and certainly as light as a descender ring if not more so

SGT Rock
2012-01-26, 09:20
LOL. OK, so 3/4" tube, how long was your piece?


That just doesn't sound right...

Hog On Ice
2012-01-26, 09:59
I just chopped a piece any old way - it ended up 5/8 ths of an inch or so

looking at a pic of that tarp line biner from Dutchware I suspect you could reduce the "length" (ie the width of the ring) to 1/4 inch and still be good - as you say just so long as it can't fit through the biner

for that matter I suspect that the 1/2 inch Sharkbite tubing could also be used

Rosaleen
2012-01-26, 14:24
I watched the video again. For some reason, I though Dutch had made a ti version of the NiteIze bone knot. No, Rock is just repurposing the NiteIze one with the ti carabiner. That just may be why I didn't find a ti knot bone on the site...

So all you guys who lose wedding rings: Do you REALLY think we wives will buy your excuse that you couldn't find it in the leaves after you practiced bear-bagging with it? We will KNOW you were trying to bag something else entirely. You would be MUCH safer having the little weird folks from the Lord of The Rings on your a** than an angry wife...


Ohhhh. Sorry. If you look at a video for PCT hang you get the basic idea.

http://www.outdoortrailgear.com/featured/dutch-ridgeline-biners/ he sells the ti and aluminum biners on the same page. You want to specify Ti at $5.50.


No problem.

dixicritter
2012-01-26, 15:42
I watched the video again. For some reason, I though Dutch had made a ti version of the NiteIze bone knot. No, Rock is just repurposing the NiteIze one with the ti carabiner. That just may be why I didn't find a ti knot bone on the site...

So all you guys who lose wedding rings: Do you REALLY think we wives will buy your excuse that you couldn't find it in the leaves after you practiced bear-bagging with it? We will KNOW you were trying to bag something else entirely. You would be MUCH safer having the little weird folks from the Lord of The Rings on your a** than an angry wife...

LOL... Rock is on his third wedding ring since we got married. I'm thinking about taking him to get one tattooed on his finger. :wink:

Law Dawg (ret)
2012-01-26, 16:30
You would be MUCH safer having the little weird folks from the Lord of The Rings on your a** than an angry wife...

Ummmm, I really would rather face my wife than let the actor that plays Frodo anywhere near my a** :bootyshak...thankyouverymuch. :ahhhhh:

Crikey
2012-01-26, 16:45
So all you guys who lose wedding rings: Do you REALLY think we wives will buy your excuse that you couldn't find it in the leaves after you practiced bear-bagging with it? We will KNOW you were trying to bag something else entirely. You would be MUCH safer having the little weird folks from the Lord of The Rings on your a** than an angry wife...

http://www.pawcurious.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/angry-cat.jpg

Rosaleen
2012-01-26, 16:56
We could make an exception for SGT Rock SOLID.

From what I've seen, he is one of the best.



LOL... Rock is on his third wedding ring since we got married. I'm thinking about taking him to get one tattooed on his finger. :wink:

Superman
2012-01-26, 17:30
LOL... Rock is on his third wedding ring since we got married. I'm thinking about taking him to get one tattooed on his finger. :wink:

My foot doctor is one of those real mountain climbers. He has his wedding band and under it is a tatoo of his wedding band. When he climbs he uses the tatoo band.

SGT Rock
2012-01-26, 18:40
My foot doctor is one of those real mountain climbers. He has his wedding band and under it is a tatoo of his wedding band. When he climbs he uses the tatoo band.

How much does it weigh?

Superman
2012-01-26, 19:17
How much does it weigh?


less than the ring. It actually looks pretty good.

dixicritter
2012-01-26, 20:10
We could make an exception for SGT Rock SOLID.

From what I've seen, he is one of the best.

Yep he's a keeper!

SGT Rock
2012-01-26, 21:56
2 each 1/2" long 1/2" Sharkbite weigh 3 grams, so 1.5 each. I'll play with them this weekend on the trail.

Hog On Ice
2012-01-27, 16:21
I was thinking about the use of a stick for the biner blocker (tm pending) and realized that the way I would tie it is probably easy enough even for a knot hater

1. hand holding bear bag up holds a bight of the line under the thumb
2. other hand puts stick under the bight and thumb so that thumb and bight are "on top off" the stick and thumb is holding stick and bight against index finger
3. wrap bight around stick with other hand
4. bring bight across back of thumb and loop it over the end of the stick that is away from where the bight was wrapped around the stick
5. slide thumb out from under bight and pull with other hand to tighten

I think this is basically the same as ABOK 1815 called a Pile Hitch

see pic for how it looks before tightening

Hog On Ice
2012-01-30, 10:58
2 each 1/2" long 1/2" Sharkbite weigh 3 grams, so 1.5 each. I'll play with them this weekend on the trail.

so how did they work out?

Crikey
2012-01-30, 11:02
I've been doing the PCT thing for a while (that is, when I feel the need to hang). I always just use a stick lying around. That's pretty light, right there.

Hog On Ice
2012-01-30, 11:36
which way do you knot the stick?

Crikey
2012-01-30, 12:37
I'm unsure what you're asking HOI - I just use a double clove hitch and let'er go until the stick hit hits the beaner.

rhjanes
2012-01-30, 13:53
I'm unsure what you're asking HOI - I just use a double clove hitch and let'er go until the stick hit hits the beaner.+1
(too short)

Hog On Ice
2012-01-30, 14:23
sherrill - does your double clove hitch look like this before tightening? That is to say hold line doubled over and tie clove hitch in the bight in much the same way I described the pile hitch?

Crikey
2012-01-30, 15:49
HOI - I don't think so, I don't double the line up. I just tie it twice. It's leftover from my youth as a rock climber.

SGT Rock
2012-01-30, 15:50
so how did they work out?

I didn't try it because I would have looked stupid trying with that much alcohol in me

I'm tapatalkin' ya'll

Hog On Ice
2012-01-30, 15:55
yep - been there and done that

Hog On Ice
2012-01-30, 15:56
HOI - I don't think so, I don't double the line up. I just tie it twice. It's leftover from my youth as a rock climber.

well in that case you may want to try that pile hitch - its got to be faster and easier than tying a clove hitch twice

Crikey
2012-01-30, 16:16
Looks good, I will. Thanks..

Skidsteer
2012-01-30, 22:39
I didn't try it because I would have looked stupid trying with that much alcohol in me

I'm tapatalkin' ya'll

Yeah, like any of us woulda noticed. :biggrin:

Big Mac
2012-01-31, 10:54
yeah, like any of us woulda noticed. :biggrin:


bazinga ! ! !

Crikey
2012-01-31, 10:55
bazinga ! ! !

http://shirtoid.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/bazinga.jpg

SGT Rock
2012-01-31, 20:35
Yeah, like any of us woulda noticed. :biggrin:

Y'all would have urged me on and filmed it.

Speaking of film,. I've got a video somewhere of Friday night...:aetsch:

Hog On Ice
2012-01-31, 20:38
does that classify as a threat or a promise?

Kanga
2012-01-31, 20:40
oh, hell.

Skidsteer
2012-01-31, 20:54
oh, hell.

:dito:

SGT Rock
2012-01-31, 21:03
I haven't thought that through all the way.

Hog On Ice
2012-01-31, 21:19
is there a way to put a password on a youtube video?

Lugnut
2012-01-31, 21:43
is there a way to put a password on a youtube video?

Yea, I could have used one of those. :argh:

SGT Rock
2012-02-01, 04:40
There is a way to post it so that only people with a link can see it, and there is a way to post it where only people you specify can see it - but I've never tried that one. I think in that case the users you want to see it must have a youtube account and you have to add them individually.