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SGT Rock
2012-03-07, 17:32
I just got this today thru the BMTA

Smokies Backcountry Camping Fee Approved
GATLINBURG -Great Smoky Mountains Superintendent Dale A. Ditmanson has announced that the Park’s proposal to begin collecting for the use of the Park’s backcountry campsites and shelters has been approved by the National Park Service. This approval clears the way for the Park to move forward with developing an on line system to collect fees beginning in 2013 for reserving and use of the Park’s backcountry by overnight hikers and equestrians.

The Park developed the plan in order to improve its trip-planning and reservation services to users and to expand its backcountry Ranger presence to better protect park resources through enforcement of food-storage and other regulations and improved visitor education regarding Leave-No-Trace principles.

The proposal was open for public comment last summer and some 230 written comments and two petitions were received during the comment period. According to Ditmanson, the public comments provided a great deal of constructive input on the concerns Park backcountry users had about the fee plan. “Many commenters were under the misconception that the Smokies is legally prohibited from charging user fees. The Park is prohibited from charging a toll or license fee from motorists crossing Park roads, by language in a 1951 deed under which the ownership of some park roads was transferred from the State of Tennessee to the National Park Service. But, we have long been authorized to collect user fees for specific activities such as front country camping, weddings, and commercial filming.”

“There was also a significant amount of concern about our initial plan to utilize the same computerized federal reservation system, www.recreation.gov (http://www.recreation.gov/) that virtually all national parks use to reserve drive-in sites in front country campgrounds. We acknowledge that some of the policies, such as the lead time for making reservations and cancellations, are not a good fit for more spontaneous backcounry users. We will not use that system unless we are convinced that it can provide the level of service we want to offer, and are exploring the alternative of developing a stand-alone software program tailored specifically to the Smokies. The system developed will also need to be practicable for Appalachian Trail thru hikers whose itineraries evolve from day-to-day.”

“Concern was also raised about the range of fee amounts that were under consideration and that the resulting revenues may be diverted to other programs. We have decided to focus our plans around the lowest and simplest of the fees under study: $4 per night per person. Most importantly, 100% of the revenue from this program will be invested in improving back-country services through extended hours of the back-country office, trip-planning assistance, on-line reservations, and protection of park resources through increased ranger staff. ”

Now that the proposal has been approved, Park managers plan to provide periodic updates as plans for the reservation system evolve.

About the National Park Service. More than 20,000 National Park Service employees care for America’s 395 national parks and work with communities across the nation to help preserve local history and create close-to-home recreational opportunities. Learn more at www.nps.gov (http://www.nps.gov/).

Bob MillerManagement AssistantGreat Smoky Mountains National Park(865) 436-1207FAX 436-1204

Big Mac
2012-03-07, 19:44
_ _ _ _

Hog On Ice
2012-03-07, 20:08
its been years since I heard that reason - talk about a golden oldie

SGT Rock
2012-03-07, 20:08
Local newspaper's article on this. It mostly says the same thing but includes comment by the ATC: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/mar/07/smokies-get-park-service-approval-for-fees/

Bearpaw
2012-03-07, 20:51
I wonder if they will have an annual pass for locals.

I'd say they've gotten the last hour of volunteer trail maintenance from me.

SGT Rock
2012-03-07, 22:11
That was something I brought up - reward points for volunteer work. Lets see if that makes it into the plan.

Cuffs
2012-03-07, 22:28
Why did NOC support the fees?

SGT Rock
2012-03-07, 22:30
I don't know.

Cuffs
2012-03-07, 22:42
Sorry, that really wasnt directed at you, I was just asking in general...

SGT Rock
2012-03-07, 22:47
You never know. I might find out sometime. I think I recall something about their store being one of the places a thru-hiker could get onto the park server and enter their plan, but that was before they decided to ditch that crappy system that they were planning to use. I guess that probably meant more time for customers to spend in their place so more money? I don't know.

I have noticed a general wish by some hikers to make other hikers pay for the services (read some comments on WB). I don't mind paying some for stuff, but the way this program works it is mostly paying to make sure you pay. And even then it might not cover all that. There will not be any money left over for maintenance or improvements of the back country.

Skidsteer
2012-03-07, 22:54
There will not be any money left over for maintenance or improvements of the back country.

Exactly.

It's bullshit thought up by people that can't do kitchen math.

Crikey
2012-03-07, 23:29
No problem. Now if you don't thru hike with a smartphone, you can't make the reservation. Then you have to skip the Smokies. Then you're not really a thru hiker. :aetsch:

mudhead
2012-03-08, 08:07
They will probably come up with a longer term pass. Local park runs a sticker sale for entry. Not many tourists here when it happens.

I figure this is a foot in the door, for other fees. The deed may contain clauses that after X years they can charge entry.

Congress probably could supersede it if they wanted to... But first they have to get you used to paying a little here and there.

curtisvowen
2012-03-08, 12:19
They could fix this first....
How I don't know, but it's been a big problem forever.
"At Derrick Knob about 4-5 years ago in late March/early April. Must've been a bunch of spring break hikers because there were at least 25 people at the shelter, and there is no way that they all had permits. Needless to say, the field in front of the shelter was littered with tents by nightfall. Just one of many examples that I've seen."

Fix this with what? Use the big ass billboard at the Sugarlands and let people know you need to have/make reservations for the shelters?
Massive ad campaign letting people know that they need a reservation? What...they have that if you just read their website.
More signs?
Hire 2 LEOs and bust the fuck out of them & word will get out we ain't playing around, like they used to do? They'd make more money then charging the $4 shit.


This is what I was looking for....where's the money.
"And that fantasy about adding two rangers for trail patrols is not going to work if they have to be supported by $4 per person per night.
Supporting two additional rangers and another full-time staffer for the backcountry office would require over 26,000 camping nights per year (over 71 campers per night, every night, 365 days/year)."

That's $104,000.00 from fees, but the Park never "cracked" the books during the public forums....not from what I read....and said anything about the money coming in and going out. So for 100k u hire 2 LEO's?
The LEO would ride a horse along the AT like they used to during the '60s & 70's and bust people....o.k. we know horses on the trail ain't good...ride a goat...hike....lhama?

Crikey
2012-03-08, 12:44
Buy an electronic pass in advance. Like EZ Pass for the NJ Turnpike. After all, sometimes in the spring, the damn AT feels like that.

Superman
2012-03-08, 14:56
They could fix this first....
How I don't know, but it's been a big problem forever.
"At Derrick Knob about 4-5 years ago in late March/early April. Must've been a bunch of spring break hikers because there were at least 25 people at the shelter, and there is no way that they all had permits. Needless to say, the field in front of the shelter was littered with tents by nightfall. Just one of many examples that I've seen."

Fix this with what? Use the big ass billboard at the Sugarlands and let people know you need to have/make reservations for the shelters?
Massive ad campaign letting people know that they need a reservation? What...they have that if you just read their website.
More signs?
Hire 2 LEOs and bust the fuck out of them & word will get out we ain't playing around, like they used to do? They'd make more money then charging the $4 shit.


This is what I was looking for....where's the money.
"And that fantasy about adding two rangers for trail patrols is not going to work if they have to be supported by $4 per person per night.
Supporting two additional rangers and another full-time staffer for the backcountry office would require over 26,000 camping nights per year (over 71 campers per night, every night, 365 days/year)."

That's $104,000.00 from fees, but the Park never "cracked" the books during the public forums....not from what I read....and said anything about the money coming in and going out. So for 100k u hire 2 LEO's?
The LEO would ride a horse along the AT like they used to during the '60s & 70's and bust people....o.k. we know horses on the trail ain't good...ride a goat...hike....lhama?

Oh....when I got closer I could see that it said lhama....not obama.

curtisvowen
2012-03-08, 15:52
Does anyone have a solution to fixing the backcountry hikers/tenters that do not know about the reservation system?
Stop the stupid?

SGT Rock
2012-03-08, 16:24
Does anyone have a solution to fixing the backcountry hikers/tenters that do not know about the reservation system?
Stop the stupid?

I was just reading WB. There are a lot of solutions. I can't say if any of them are good. I know what I would do.

Big Mac
2012-03-08, 17:15
I was just reading WB. There are a lot of solutions. I can't say if any of them are good. I know what I would do.

Spill it.

Ewker
2012-03-08, 17:57
who is golden eagle on WB?? Interesting that he joined today and all of his post are on the thread about the backcountry fees.

Hog On Ice
2012-03-08, 18:27
WB is a sore subject around here - leave what they do over there over there is the best advice I can give

If you ask if someone from here is trolling under an assumed name over there ... who knows? but I doubt it

Bearpaw
2012-03-08, 18:43
WB is a sore subject around here - leave what they do over there over there is the best advice I can give

If you ask if someone from here is trolling under an assumed name over there ... who knows? but I doubt it

It's not a regular over here. Nobody here would talk trash to Rock like that.

I like Rock's idea of creating more campsites along the AT. Not being forced to stay in a shelter would be a good deal for hikers as well as spreading out the crowd of thru-hikers.

I just hate the fact that this will cost hikers a ton of money and almost certainly operate at a loss because current hiker numbers will likely drop with this system. Then hiring those 2 rangers will actually have to come a) other places in the budget or b) an increased fee in subsequent years. Damn it to hell if you can't figure out which will happen.

Rooster
2012-03-08, 18:52
Well hopefully the added fees will allow for more enforcment. Trail workers should receive vip passes. Unfortunatly like allot of things the park service does, it will end up being a underfunded program and of no help at all. The cost of permits will steadily rise to the smiles of the Beurocrats. Those peoplethat dont know it was all created to be enjoyed for free! Soon there will be a Cathole Tax! Yep, and vending machines at all the shelters. Why should hikers have to carry food? You watch and see if this doesnt run amuck!

Lone Wolf
2012-03-08, 18:53
I just hate the fact that this will cost hikers a ton of money $12-$16 ain't a lot of money. most folks budget money when they go on vacation. not fuckin' hikers

Bearpaw
2012-03-08, 18:58
$12-$16 ain't a lot of money. most folks budget money when they go on vacation. not fuckin' hikers

It adds up when you live nearby and hike there often. That's why there ought to be an annual pass. $40 for unlimited nights for a year would be reasonable for someone like Rock who lives right outside the gate. I was looking at relocating to the Maryville area to be closer to the park. Now I'm not so sure about that.

Hog On Ice
2012-03-08, 19:02
that is a point - have there been any indications of how they will handle the America the Beautiful - The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Senior Pass - discount??? free??? access to the campsites?

curtisvowen
2012-03-08, 19:19
Give me some numbers that show the "live nearby and hike there often".
It ain't there.
Yes, locals you get a discount or for anyone else wanting to pay $40/yr....that's good.
Horse folks is what you need to check into for getting some money, but that's another matter.

Superman
2012-03-08, 19:19
that is a point - have there been any indications of how they will handle the America the Beautiful - The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Senior Pass - discount??? free??? access to the campsites?

Yes, I wonder if my Golden Access Passport will work on those new fees?

SGT Rock
2012-03-08, 20:44
The original proposal would not credit people for working as volunteers, I don't know if it recognised senior discounts or park passes and it was pretty inflexible as well as not being friendly for people using cash which I think is what most hikers would rather pay with. With them admitting the system sucked and they are going to do something else I have hope. I'd rather see the no reservation sites stay that way and allow you to pay at a drop box or by phone or on-line. Since you had to go to their reservation system for those shelters and certain campsites anyway keep them that way and let the hiker pay via credit card that way. I would love to see an online reservation system for reservation only sites so I wouldn't have to call that number and get told I can't hike that far or whatever the office person thinks about my hike plan. I think all current non reservation sites should stay that way.

I think golden eagle is probably whitefoot's latest sock puppet. Its been a while, but some of the characteristics fit.

I'm tapatalkin' ya'll

dixicritter
2012-03-08, 20:46
Give me some numbers that show the "live nearby and hike there often".


I know of several that live in and around Maryville, TN that hike in the Smokeys quite often. Specific number from here that I know of is about a half dozen folks (that includes Rock).

SGT Rock
2012-03-08, 21:35
I don't know a good way to create a "local boy discount" but I would go for a annual pass which would allow for stays at non reservation sites for no additional fees and discounts to reservation sites

I'm tapatalkin' ya'll

Lone Wolf
2012-03-08, 22:20
It adds up when you live nearby and hike there often. That's why there ought to be an annual pass. $40 for unlimited nights for a year would be reasonable for someone like Rock who lives right outside the gate. I was looking at relocating to the Maryville area to be closer to the park. Now I'm not so sure about that.
dude. you know how to stealth camp

SGT Rock
2012-03-08, 23:40
I do. There are also rules that allow you to camp off trail in non designated campsites.

I'm tapatalkin' ya'll

Roots
2012-03-08, 23:46
I truly have grown a dislike for backpacking in the Smokies over the years because of the picky shit rules and regulations everywhere. I grew up roaming the Smokies because my family lives in Bryson City. The 2nd half of the Smokies on the AT will not be completed by me until Gungho and attempt a thru hike because of the shelter rules. That's just me but there is no attraction for me.

SGT Rock
2012-03-09, 00:24
Anyone can fill out a permit as a thru-hiker at any time. There is no required proof. I'm of the opinion that most folks hiking the AT in the park as thru-hikers are probably just people that don't want to put up with the BS

I'm tapatalkin' ya'll

Lugnut
2012-03-09, 00:34
That's what I did. I didn't like anything about the Smokies and don't figure I'll ever be back there so personally I don't care what they do but I hate it that those who do like the park and live close by have to put up with bureaucratic BS.

Superman
2012-03-09, 05:27
That's what I did. I didn't like anything about the Smokies and don't figure I'll ever be back there so personally I don't care what they do but I hate it that those who do like the park and live close by have to put up with bureaucratic BS.

I hated getting crammed into the shelter on the AT in the Smokies. The BMT is wicked better than the AT in the Smokies.

Crikey
2012-03-09, 08:45
This is nothing short of being all about money. And the realistic thing is, that there will never be an efficient or practical way to collect fees from backpackers.

Put a gate on the road to Clingman's and charge an entrance fee. If that road falls under the '51 deed agreement it shouldn't as it only exists to get people up there, and not for traversing the park.

Cuffs
2012-03-09, 10:13
I hated getting crammed into the shelter on the AT in the Smokies. The BMT is wicked better than the AT in the Smokies.

If/when I do a thru, I know I'll be taking the BMT thru the Smokys. I love that section thru there and not a freaking soul around til you hit smokemont.

Law Dawg (ret)
2012-03-09, 13:18
This is nothing short of being all about money. And the realistic thing is, that there will never be an efficient or practical way to collect fees from backpackers.


Worse than that, it is an ill conceived idea that will blossom into more petty bureaucratic rules to make up for the fact that the folks who came up with the idea have no clue of the logistics (read; actual costs to make it work etc) of the program. All because they have a poor understanding of actual human nature and so will have to either abandon the idea (don't hold your breath) or try to cobble together a system to get your money that actually works...sorta, maybe, kinda. DAMHIK

Now if we could just get the Unicorns to crap nutritious lolly pops and pee vitamin enriched soda pop...:banghead:

Superman
2012-03-09, 17:53
If/when I do a thru, I know I'll be taking the BMT thru the Smokys. I love that section thru there and not a freaking soul around til you hit smokemont.

Start on Springer, then get on the BMT and avoid all the AT newbys. There are so many hikers in that first stretch that you can't pee in private. Take that lower trail from Fontana Dam and don't even climb the hill. There is stuff to see on the BMT. The town stops are just as good ...except for Green Cove. Cherokee isn't great but it will get the job done. You still end with a night at Standing Bear. I think you wind up hiking about 30-50 miles further but it's well worth it. There are less people every year who care which route you take to get to Maine. The other major trails have alternative routes, why is the AT clinging to "Wing Foot's" way?

Cuffs
2012-03-09, 18:06
Ive done most of the BMT thru GA and about 50 miles south of the Smokys. All the Smokys is done too. Ive got some patches in TN and NC to piece together... I think starting at Springer, the BMT thru Davenport Gap, then the AT would be a great hike!

Superman
2012-03-09, 18:57
Ive done most of the BMT thru GA and about 50 miles south of the Smokys. All the Smokys is done too. Ive got some patches in TN and NC to piece together... I think starting at Springer, the BMT thru Davenport Gap, then the AT would be a great hike!

Yes, I've done that for the last two years for over 800 miles each year. It was actually a tough choice this year to do that again or go back to Buena Vista, VA. Hiking north from Buena Vista I should get very close to home this year.

sheepdog
2012-03-09, 20:01
The smokys are beautiful but they are way too crowded and I remember some places where the trail was a foot and a half deep.

Cuffs
2012-03-09, 20:07
That's precisely why I hike the BMT thru there. No tourons.

Ray
2012-03-09, 20:41
Several years ago the FS had the bright idea of charging parking fees at some AT trailheads in GA like the Springer parking lot, Woody Gap, Blood Mtn and I don't know where all else. Weren't no big deal, I always paid it but lots of folk didn't.

It wasn't a money maker. It cost more to have a ranger drive around to the parking lots and collect the fees than the parking fees were worth. So they dropped the program and all the parking areas are fee free today.

You think they'd learn.

Skidsteer
2012-03-09, 21:27
Several years ago the FS had the bright idea of charging parking fees at some AT trailheads in GA like the Springer parking lot, Woody Gap, Blood Mtn and I don't know where all else. Weren't no big deal, I always paid it but lots of folk didn't.

It wasn't a money maker. It cost more to have a ranger drive around to the parking lots and collect the fees than the parking fees were worth. So they dropped the program and all the parking areas are fee free today.

You think they'd learn.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!

Bearpaw
2012-03-10, 12:24
Folks often use the thru-hikers permit through the park. Unfortunately, it doesn't help with the BMT or any of the other great trails in the park. I will truly miss being able to show up and use the non-reservation sites and a self-registration post. I hiked a LOT of the park that way.

Lone Wolf may be right. Stealth may just be the way to go on those barely used trails.

Lugnut
2012-03-10, 13:22
Just ask yourself 'what would Warren Doyle do?'. :bandit:

Bearpaw
2012-03-10, 14:12
Just ask yourself 'what would Warren Doyle do?'. :bandit:

Umm, I'm not sleeping in a privy...

But yeah, I get your point.

Bearpaw
2012-03-10, 14:16
One of my personal philosophies on hiking is that it's one thing to quietly break a regulation. It's another to brag about it. "Live your life and keep quiet about it." goes a long way.

woodsy
2012-03-10, 14:21
Can't believe some of y'all are complaing about park fess and yet were OK with us getting a new Nat. Park, sheesh !

Sucks having to pay for something you always got for free don't it ?

Superman
2012-03-10, 14:31
Can't believe some of y'all are complaing about park fess and yet were OK with us getting a new Nat. Park, sheesh !

Sucks having to pay for something you always got for free don't it ?

Hi Woodsy....I choose to be indignate about those things that do and do not effect me personally.:biggrin:

SGT Rock
2012-03-10, 16:15
I'll never brag about how I camp in the park... sometimes.

woodsy
2012-03-11, 10:47
Hi Woodsy....I choose to be indignate about those things that do and do not effect me personally.:biggrin:

Thats a good neighbor !:biggrin:

sheepdog
2012-03-11, 19:40
Can't believe some of y'all are complaing about park fess and yet were OK with us getting a new Nat. Park, sheesh !

Sucks having to pay for something you always got for free don't it ?
That can't be our old pal woodsy, .....

did you get moose stomped/??? ................not that I believe in moose......

Superman
2012-03-11, 19:42
That can't be our old pal woodsy, .....

did you get moose stomped/??? ................not that I believe in moose......

That was a Whargy you didn't believe in....and apparently he doesn't.:beer:

sheepdog
2012-03-11, 19:56
That was a Whargy you didn't believe in....and apparently he doesn't.:beer:

stomp on people??

Superman
2012-03-11, 20:09
stomp on people??

Huh...me...no...never.


Jailbird

sheepdog
2012-03-11, 20:53
Huh...me...no...never.


Jailbird

I've been called names by professionals.

moose stomper

woodsy
2012-03-12, 17:39
That can't be our old pal woodsy, .....

did you get moose stomped/??? ................not that I believe in moose......

Sup dog ?
coming out of winter hibernation, just put the sled
up today.

sheepdog
2012-03-12, 18:34
Sup dog ?
coming out of winter hibernation, just put the sled
up today.

Good to here from you. The ice is too dangerous to fish. The snow is melting and it smells like spring.

Superman
2012-03-12, 18:43
Good to here from you. The ice is too dangerous to fish. The snow is melting and it smells like spring.

I got a ticket to the Golden Corral...er...to hike.:beer:

woodsy
2012-03-12, 20:29
Good to here from you. The ice is too dangerous to fish. The snow is melting and it smells like spring.

Was a thin ice winter here, lost one old acquaintance who i hadn't seen in a decade or so through the ice, crossing big river after dark on his sled and went through, they found him next day.

You guys quit hijacking Rock's thread will ya, you too superman ! :angel:

SGT Rock
2012-03-12, 20:33
Phhfffttt..

Who cares?

woodsy
2012-03-12, 20:38
Phhfffttt..

Who cares?

I didn't really think you would, just yanking some yank's chains.

SGT Rock
2012-03-12, 20:40
Whatever.

LOL.

I quit worrying about thread drift on the first day I ever ran a forum. It is good for the health of a board to wander around.

How about Peyton Manning leaving the Colts?

Big Mac
2012-03-12, 20:43
sucks

SGT Rock
2012-03-12, 20:47
Opens up a team to scoop him up and let him go back and embarrass them. Shades of Bret Farve ehh?

Big Mac
2012-03-12, 20:48
yup. I wish him well. He did it with class. None of that "I'm taking my talent too . . ." bullshit.

SGT Rock
2012-03-12, 20:51
Too bad the Colts are worried about getting the next young guy. A lot of fans of the Colts in this area were only fans because of Payton. There is major hope he will come play for the Titans.

Big Mac
2012-03-12, 20:54
I think it was all about the 26 million they would have paid him last week. They didn't want to pay it, and Peyton would have caught hell from the players association for negotiating it down. Fuckin' union for millionaires - what a joke.

SGT Rock
2012-03-12, 21:03
I'm in a union. The longer I am in it the more I realize that the leadership is crooked as hillbilly's teeth.

sheepdog
2012-03-12, 21:10
only good union, is the one between a man and woman

Cuffs
2012-03-12, 21:16
Is that douche Dungy still the head coach?

sheepdog
2012-03-12, 21:21
Dungy hasn't been a coach in a while now. If you weren't so busy being on tv you'd know that.:aetsch:

SGT Rock
2012-03-12, 21:26
Did I miss something? Cuffs got on TV?

Superman
2012-03-12, 21:31
Did I miss something? Cuffs got on TV?

She's got a starring roll I heard.

sheepdog
2012-03-12, 21:32
rhp of nola

SGT Rock
2012-03-12, 21:34
New reality show: "Sexy mutherfuckers on the AT"?

sheepdog
2012-03-12, 21:35
New reality show: "Sexy mutherfuckers on the AT"?

that's it!!!

Cuffs
2012-03-12, 21:56
Dungy hasn't been a coach in a while now. If you weren't so busy being on tv you'd know that.:aetsch:

He tried coaching the Bucs, glad they let his shitass go!

SGT Rock
2012-03-12, 21:57
I don't know much about him, but he does look like a dick with ears.

Cuffs
2012-03-12, 22:03
I met him once right when he first came to Tampa. I was picking up my jet ski from annual service and he was there buying one (or maybe 2) for his boys. I just briefly acknowledged him when he passed me by nodding my head and saying 'hey coach.' That was all I did. He acted like I had just walked into his house and interrupted his dinner. Like I had no business or permission to talk to him. Later year in Tampa, one of his boys died, suicide IIRCC.?
Monkeyboy, you know anything more on that?

SGT Rock
2012-03-12, 22:04
So an arrogant dick with ears.

Cuffs
2012-03-12, 22:14
I think you are on the right track.

Cuffs
2012-03-12, 22:44
Did I miss something? Cuffs got on TV?

It aint nothin, but Im giggling over it... cast as an extra for 4 days on the set of HBO's Treme. They're filming Mardi Gras as I get to dress up once again!

Lugnut
2012-03-12, 22:50
Hate to disagree: Tony Dungy is a good man. :argh:

sheepdog
2012-03-12, 23:20
Hate to disagree: Tony Dungy is a good man. :argh:

I like him too.

john pickett
2012-03-13, 23:04
How about Peyton Manning leaving the Colts?
There is major hope he will come play for the Titans.

Sarge, you got the Houston Oilers! Be satisfied. Peyton is coming
to Dallas if I have to hog-tie and drag him here!

SGT Rock
2012-03-14, 16:28
How about Peyton Manning leaving the Colts?
There is major hope he will come play for the Titans.

Sarge, you got the Houston Oilers! Be satisfied. Peyton is coming
to Dallas if I have to hog-tie and drag him here!
Looks like he is down to choosing between the Titans and the Broncos: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Peyton-Manning-Tennessee-Titans-Denver-Broncos-031312

I say let the Broncos stick with the horse they chose last year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlraGR85fF4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlraGR85fF4

john pickett
2012-03-14, 17:38
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Superman
2012-03-14, 17:48
Isn't there a commandment about the seperation of church and football?

Nearly Normal
2012-03-14, 22:26
Isn't there a commandment about the seperation of church and football?

There is in Alabama

SGT Rock
2012-03-14, 22:50
Football is a religion in Alabama.

Big Mac
2012-03-15, 11:01
Football is a religion in Alabama.

Basketball is a religion in Indiana. GO HOOSIERS!

john pickett
2012-03-15, 11:23
Football is a State (of being) in Texas.

Law Dawg (ret)
2012-03-15, 13:57
Isn't there a commandment about the seperation of church and football?

No.:angel:

chief
2012-03-15, 14:38
Football is a religion in Alabama.
Football is a dying religion in Tennessee. Must be the snakes.

Superman
2012-03-15, 14:40
No.:angel:

Do you mean in a Tebow kind of way?:angel:

SGT Rock
2012-03-15, 15:55
Football is a dying religion in Tennessee. Must be the snakes.

They just need a good revival.

MonkeyBoy
2012-03-15, 15:57
They just need a good revival.

Teeth wouldn't hurt, either.....

Law Dawg (ret)
2012-03-15, 16:25
Do you mean in a Tebow kind of way?:angel:

No...well maybe. Depends on your angle.:angel:

Loved to watch the sports fascists go nuts trying to deal with sorting him out though! Ain't tolerance a beautiful thing?

Hog On Ice
2012-03-15, 16:39
No...well maybe. Depends on your angle.

I think I remember hearing the angle of the dangle is equal to the heat of the meat

chief
2012-03-16, 02:01
They just need a good revival.
Hope they get it, my UT alum friends are getting really cranky!

SGT Rock
2012-03-16, 04:07
Teeth wouldn't hurt, either.....

Teeth are optional in football.

dzierzak
2012-03-16, 08:20
Teeth are optional in football.

and hockey...

Law Dawg (ret)
2012-03-16, 11:40
Teeth are optional in football.

And Meth...

sheepdog
2012-03-16, 13:21
Teeth are optional in football.


and hockey...


And Meth...

:biggrin:

Hog On Ice
2013-02-14, 15:24
BC reservation system now active: https://smokiespermits.nps.gov/index.cfm

Thru-hikers need email addr, access to a printer, and $20

D'Artagnan
2013-02-14, 16:59
BC reservation system now active: https://smokiespermits.nps.gov/index.cfm

Thru-hikers need email addr, access to a printer, and $20


OK, dumb question, but wouldn't a Thru Hiker be better off to lie and only pay $4.00 per night as a "regular" hiker?

SGT Rock
2013-02-14, 17:01
No. Because he would have to make an itinerary and stick to it. So he would have to forecast exactly what day he was going to enter the park and know exactly which shelters he was going to use, and be in a place where he could print and bring the reservation prior to that entry, and on top of all that hope that where he thought he was going to stay was not already booked solid.

Cuffs
2013-02-14, 17:45
Literary? I think autocorrect got ya! Itinerary!

SGT Rock
2013-02-14, 17:51
Doh!