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Hog On Ice
2012-11-10, 15:32
I think I have got the bugs out of the design now so I am now showing this chair to a wider audience. Current status for the "standard" ASS chair is weight 182 grams (6.5 ounces) in the light weight carry mode - this includes the 1.8 ounce fabric seat which is long enough to lean back and rest one's head on the fabric (1.1 sq yard of fabric, cut size 26 inch by 55 inch), a four foot tree strap with loops on both ends (1 inch wide polyester from Arrowhead Equipment), 3 six foot DynaGlide UCRs (one for primary suspension and two for cross ties), 2 adjustable loops in DynaGlide, and 2 antislip lines in DynaGlide in a light weight stuff sack. Not included in the weight are the two gutter nail tent stakes nor the 24 inch PVC SCH40 pipe - these components are part of the quick setup carry mode package. Also note that this is a DIY project so your weight will depend on various factors such as size and weight of the fabric, use of fixed length cross ties, and possible fixed length primary support line - note if using a non-adjustable support line tie it to the tree strap using a double sheet bend - the primary adjustment would then become how far up the tree the tree strap is placed. The primary adjustment is used to set the chair's lean back angle. The UCRs could also be made shorter if desired - six feet is as long as I thought they would ever need to be and also permits the UCRs to be used for other applications such as hammock suspensions.

Here are some pictures

1.) this shows the sticks needed to setup the chair layed out on the chair fabric - the front stick was cut to 25 inches, the two prop sticks were cut to about 30 inches and the fork in these sticks was just insurance that the adjustable loops would not slip down the prop stick, and the two stakes were cut to about 10 inches and a point was whittled on each one

2.) this shows the various lines used in the chair setup in approximately the position the would be in when used in the chair

3.) this shows the prop sticks tied to the front stick that is in the channel in the seat fabric with the two adjustable loops - the adjustable loops are locked in place with a bow knot; the cross ties are larks headed on the props and UCRs are adjusted for length so the props are at right angles to the front stick when the cross ties are tight; the antislip lines are larksheaded onto the props and are ready to tie to the stakes

4.) this shows the tree strap and primary support UCR attached to the tree - the fabric will be larks headed onto the primary UCR as the next step and the props place in their desired position

5.) this shows the seat in its final position - the stakes with the antislip lines tied to them are seen a little in front of the prop sticks and slightly to the outside of the chair

6.) this is one of those rare pictures of a Hog On Ice leaning back and enjoying the day on his ASS chair

Weary
2012-11-11, 00:19
It looks very interesting, especially after a fall on Saddleback in Maine a month ago. I injured a rib, making hiking extremely painful after the first hour. I have to lean back in a comfortable position for a few minutes every hour or so, which makes long woodland walks impossible.

sheepdog
2012-11-11, 17:22
Hi Weary

john pickett
2012-11-11, 18:23
Like that chair! Does the ASS stand for Assault Secret Service?

Hog On Ice
2012-11-11, 18:28
nope - just short for "A Simple Sling" - acronym picked with malice of forethought as in "hey you get off my ASS!" "well I think I'll go and hang up my ASS" ...

Hog On Ice
2012-11-12, 14:14
Here are some pics of the quick setup carry mode - the tree strap and the old man sitting in the chair are the same so no new pics of them. This adds a 24 inch section of 3/4 inch SCH40 PVC pipe to act as the front stick and two gutter nails for the antislip pegs bringing the total weight to 425g (15 ounces). It is also required that the user have two trekking poles to act as the props to push the chair out away from the tree.

pictures:

1.) pic this shows the fabric seat with the PVC front stick, trekking poles, and gutter nails. Note the ends of the PVC pipe are wrapped with friction tape to prevent the adjustable loops from slipping. Also note that in this example the trekking poles are collapsed to their shortest position and locked into that position - it is not required to do this step but if done _and_ if the ground is good and firm enough then the antislip lines are probably not needed. If the ground is too hard however then the antislip lines are needed because the tips of the poles would not be able to be stuck in the ground. Note if non-collapsible poles are used then the antislip lines are necessary because the angle to the ground is too acute for the pole tips to hold.

2.) this pic shows the chair assembled in the same way as the previous example but with the substitution of the PVC pipe and the tekking poles plus the gutter nails for components that would have been created on site with the previous example. This is how the chair looks after I sat in it for a while. Note the chair was put up faster than the previous example because I did not have to cut the sticks.

3.) this pic shows the back of the chair showing the lines looped on the tips of the trekking poles instead of being larksheaded onto the poles as the previous example showed. Also you can see the antislip lines going to the white headed gutter nails located in front of and slightly to the side of the trekking poles. Note the cross ties are attached to the upper part of the handle to give them better leverage in keeping the ASS stable.

SGT Rock
2012-11-12, 14:58
It's raining its ass off here, I can't go play with mine.

Hog On Ice
2012-11-12, 15:23
been real cloudy here too - probably rain tonight

SGT Rock
2012-11-12, 16:20
It is supposed to get cold tonight and even more so tomorrow night. I'm thinking of taking my chair and hammock to the Smokies for some cold weather testing.

Hog On Ice
2012-11-12, 16:35
have fun playing in the ?snow?

SGT Rock
2012-11-12, 16:47
Maybe, but sitting above it.

SGT Rock
2012-11-12, 16:48
Lecont two days ago:

http://www.highonleconte.com/uploads/3/8/3/9/3839600/2152237_orig.jpg?0

Hog On Ice
2012-11-16, 14:27
I tried out a new way of hanging my ASS today - potentially faster but more dependent on found sticks. Anyways the idea was to have two long sticks act as props - one on each side of the tree with a strap between them that allows the tree to keep them from slipping. The ASS is on a third stick as normal and the two adjustable loops are used to hold the front stick onto the two props. The cross ties were not needed and the antislip line were not needed. Here is how it looked

Pic 1 - a front view of the chair showing the usual tree strap and primary suspension UCR

Pic 2 - a side view showing the prop sticks going back to the tree

Pic 3 - a closer view of the adjustable loops tying the front stick to one of the prop sticks

Pic 4 - a view of the strap between the prop sticks at the tree trunk base

4476 4477 4478 4479

As for sitting in it - well currently I would rate it not quite as good as the standard setup - there was a problem getting the two props to hold at the same length and as a result the chair tended to have a bit of a lean to side - I will probably play with this until I get a handle on the issue. Other notes - the chair would easily swing a bit from side to side - expected since there was no lines at the chair end of the level arm to keep the chair in one place - this side to side motion could be a good thing allowing a user to move the chair somewhat to face other members of the user's party. Changing the slope of the back of the chair is also somewhat restricted by the length of the poles - the poles need to be lengthened (strap moved further back on the prop sticks) to have the chair recline more - this is not too bad however because the other method of reclining the chair is unaltered - just move the primary support tree strap down the tree and shorten the primary support UCR - the second method however is limited by how short one can make the UCR plus length of the fabric seat versus the length of the prop sticks.

Hog On Ice
2012-11-17, 15:24
Since I had the two long sticks available from the prior configuration I decided today to try to hang my ASS from a bipod - basically use a line to hold the bipod connected to a more distant tree, or large rock, or strong bush, or some other sort of a ground anchor then hang the ASS from the positioned bipod. The advantage of this approach is that the user is much less limited in the placement of the ASS. Obviously the carry weight of this approach goes up but if using a tree as the anchor point the user gains a strong clothes line or possibly a line to throw a tarp over. Note however this line needs to be a low stretch line or else the chair will get lowered as the line stretches - in other words 550 line is not a good choice here - use some line that is suitable for hanging a hammock for overnight use.

Pictures:

1.) general over view of the bipod and chair

2.) closer look at the tree strap - note the line I used was 3.8 mm Spyderline and I tied it to the tree strap using a Hennessy Hammocks "knot" - which is really just a figure eight lashing with a couple half hitches to finish it off

3.) a look at the base of the bipod - I used a Dynaglide UCR to keep the legs of the bipod from spreading too far

4.) a look at the top of the bipod - I used one of my longer adjustable loops to initially hold the bipod top together then I did a little lashing with the 3.8 mm Spyderline and if you look closely you can see where the UCR for the ASS is larks headed onto the larger of the two poles above the lashing

Bearpaw
2012-11-18, 11:55
Been using mine locally for day trips. Love it. Thanks so much for hooking me up HOI.

SGT Rock
2012-11-18, 15:43
I've made a video for HOI on the thing, but I haven't been able to finish the edits due to work. I hope to have it done Monday.

Hog On Ice
2012-11-18, 16:24
I've been playing with a spread sheet for calculation the angle of the seat back under various setups - formula used was : =ROUND(DEGREES(ACOS(B2/SQRT(((A2-C2)^2) + B2^2)))) where A is the column of strap height on tree, B is the column of ground distance from tree to front edge of chair, and C the column of seat height at the front edge of the chair. Currently I have not added the adjustment for ground or tree slope - the assumption is that the tree is vertical and that the ground is flat and level

Hog On Ice
2012-11-20, 16:49
Today I went over to the county park to try a few different things. Mule tape seems to have some good features for use with the chair - knots are easy to tie and hold well - in this test case I replaced the primary suspension UCR with mule tape. I setup a ground anchor and bipod using the mule tape and tried moving the bipod so as to show a couple different seat back positions. The first position is comfortable for when sitting up and talking to people. The second position is good for taking a nap or star watching. The mule tape was larks headed to the fabric seat which was generally a good idea but some care needs to be taken so that the unloaded end is on top of the line leading up to the bipod or tree so that it is held pinched in the knot. One time I did have the larks head slip but in that case the unloaded end was loose below the tensioned line. The primary adjustment point for this approach is the mule tape larks head at the fabric seat - mule tape is relatively easy to untie and adjusting the larks head so as to shorten or lengthen the primary support line is easy. One of the setups was to just have the mule tape tied to a tree using a round turn and two half hitches - this worked well. About the only issue I saw with using the mule tape is the it tends to snag when wrapping it around the tree making it a little more difficult to adjust the round turn before adding the two half hitches. One major item discovered was that larks heading the antislip line onto the bottom loop of the cross tie UCR is _not_ a good idea when using sticks for the props - what happens is that as the antislip line tightens up the loop on the bottom of the prop stick opens up slightly and the prop stick slides through the loop dropping me out of the chair. I will play with the idea more later of tying the antislip line to just above the bottom loop of the cross tie UCR - I think this will work but I still need to try the approach with the stick props.

Anyways the pictures as follows:

1.) chair back slope set for reasonable upright - conversational mode. The bipod attachment height was 61 inches, the chair front height was 12 inches, the chair front edge distance from the bipod was 41 inches giving a calculate seat back angle of 50 degrees - I suspect the effective angle is actually larger because of the seat shape after sitting in the chair

2.) a shot of the ground anchor used - The Claw see http://www.theclaw.com/ for more details

3.) a long shot showing the whole setup of the ground anchor to bipod to chair - the mule tape is the white line seen in the pics

4.) chair back slope set for reasonable laid back resting position. The bipod attachment was 61 inches, the chair front height was 15 inches, the chair front edge distance from the bipod was 63 inches - calculated seat back angle was 36 degrees . Note the change from the first position was to move the bipod back somewhat and to change the mule tape from the anchor to larks head directly on the fabric instead of using an intermediate piece of mule tape

5.) here the chair is tied to a real tree using a round turn and two half hitches - worked well once I rearranged the larks head to have the loose end positioned above the tensioned line

Hog On Ice
2012-11-30, 16:59
Following up on a previous configuration I set up the two long props example and figured out how to adjust it for comfort. Basically use the adjustable loops to attach the front stick to the long poles and where each pole is on opposite sides of the tree and strap the poles together at the base of the tree - this time around I used a 4 foot tree strap with a single wrap on each pole and tied the two end loops together with an adjustable loop - the adjustable loop allowed me to get the strap reasonably tight. One item I did not do last time but I think was important was to make sure that the butt ends of the two poles do not extend significantly past the tree - this is so that when the chair is raised up from the primary suspension UCR the butt ends do not hit the ground and mess up the chair side to side tensioning. Anyways after getting the chair up to sitting height I found as before that the tension was not equal on each side of the chair - the adjustment that I did was to loosen up the adjustable loop on the front stick that is on the "tight" side and slip the front stick back a little bit toward the tree on that side then tighten the adjustable loop to hold the front stick in the new location on that side. This seems to work and the chair felt better for sitting after I made this adjustment. I am still rating this configuration as somewhat of a novelty and not something I would normally setup in the field but it is nice enough once setup for sitting and the limited side to side motion is sort of nice when changing the direction of interest. The chair however doesn't "rock" as well as the other configurations - the long poles cause it to pivot at the base of the tree instead at the closer ground point of the props in the other configurations. Its sometimes nice to have a bit of a rocking chair but its not a big deal either way.

The pics I took today are nothing special

1. a sort of a front view of the chair showing the long poles going back to the base of the tree

2. a closer view of the strap between the poles at the base of the tree

3. a close view of the butt ends of the sticks showing that they are not hitting the ground and thus not interfering with the leveling of the chair

SGT Rock
2012-12-02, 18:19
I made a video for HOIs chair, here is the address: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXOFR1DjRRw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXOFR1DjRRw

SGT Rock
2012-12-02, 21:04
HOI, I was just looking at the Dutchware site. He is carrying this now:

http://www.outdoortrailgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ridgeline-002.jpeg

http://www.outdoortrailgear.com/featured/adjustable-ucr-hammock-ridgeline/

Look familiar?

Hog On Ice
2012-12-02, 21:20
sure does - grin

Hog On Ice
2012-12-03, 20:04
Well I thought I would put together a few random notes about the chair:

1.) if using a found stick for the front stick you want a stick that is 24 inches or longer, smooth or can be made smooth so it doesn't damage the fabric, and can't be broken across your knee - I have found this last item to work for me anyways - I hold the stick with hands about 24 inches apart, lift my knee and then try to break the stick with my knee - if I can't its strong enough

2.) if using found sticks for the props it helps to have a fork or knob where the adjustable loop is to go so that the adjustable loop does not slip down the prop stick - if the is nothing in the right spot then cut a small notch in the prop so as to hold the loop in place

3.) its OK to larks head the antislip line to the lower loop of the cross tie IFF you are using trekking poles with baskets for the props but do not connect the antislip line to the cross tie if using found sticks or trekking poles without baskets for props because it will interfere with the cross tie's ability to hold its place on the prop stick

4.) the lightest fabric I ever used for the seat fabric was approximately 1.1 ounce/yd ripstop nylon - if you choose to use this type of fabric be aware that it will wear out probably faster than expected and you should inspect the fabric often for wear - typically the stitching for the front channel pushes the threads in the fabric together creating a weak point

5.) using a polyester fabric is also a possibility if you want to limit the UV degradation of the fabric - nylon tends to degrade with prolonged UV exposure much more than polyester does

6.) if not using DynaGlide lines for the chair then the following are possible substitutions - for the cross ties and adjustable loops the Spyder Line 1.8 mm line will work nicely - the cross ties would no longer be adjustable however so they would have to be tied to a specific length - not a problem if using a specific model of trekking poles but might require retying if the model was changed; for the primary support line the Spyder Line 2.8 mm can be used or mule tape can be used - the Sypder Line would be typically tied to the tree strap with a double sheet bend and larks headed on the gathered end of the fabric seat - mule tape can be tied directly to the tree without a separate tree strap typically with a round turn and two half hitches, second hitch slipped - mule tape would be larks headed to the gathered end of the fabric seat with some care so it does not slip - put the free end of the knot in a position where it is above the tensioned end or add a slipped hitch of the free end onto the tensioned line

7.) as mentioned in the video one of the issues with the setup of the chair is to get the tension on each side of the chair to be approximately equal otherwise the user may feel twisted to one side or even have the chair collapse to that side; another somewhat common issue is when the prop sticks are too close to vertical - here the user will feel that the chair is collapsing backward - a quick fix is to increase the length of the primary support line to allow the prop sticks to tilt forward more - another fix is to move the prop sticks and antislip stakes closer to the tree (or whatever the chair is tied to).

8.) there are a few ways that the slope of the back of the chair can be increased so as to sit more reclined - as seen in the video the primary support line can be lengthened with the consequence that the chair height is reduced - if the user wants to maintain the same chair height then the user can lower the attachment point of the primary support line to the tree and shorten up the primary support line - this allows the chair to remain in place and with the same chair height - alternatively the primary support line can be lengthened and the chair is moved away from the tree along with the antislip stakes and lines; to decrease the slope of the back of the chair (to sit more upright) then just reverse the above operations

9.) when increasing the slope of the back of the chair be aware that like a hammock the force on the supports increases the closer the chair gets to having a horizontal back - when the force gets too high the antislip stakes will probably pull up and the user lands on the ground - as a general rule of thumb it is probably best is the chair back angle does not go below 30 degrees for the same reason that 30 degrees in a magic number for hammocks - any lower and the force on the supports goes up above the weight of the person sitting in the chair

10.) the function of the cross ties is to limit the side to side motion of the seat - it is not necessary to have these lines completely tight but the tighter they are the less the side to side motion will be felt when changing position on the chair - once in the chair you will always find that only one of the two cross ties is really tight and the other may feel quite loose - this is expected and generally not an issue unless there is excessive side to side motion as the user leans to one side or the other

11.) inspect the lines and fabric often - recommended every time you set up the chair and if a line is showing excessive wear then it should be replaced before it breaks

Superman
2012-12-03, 20:27
My ASS was sitting by the front door when I came back from my walk this afternoon. Thanks HOI...I will set it up tomorrow.:biggrin:

SGT Rock
2012-12-03, 20:28
I just got a note from Dutch. He is thinking about offering the UCRs as hammock suspension as well. I prefer them to WSs.

Hog On Ice
2012-12-03, 20:42
someone should offer them for hammock suspensions commercially - would be nice if someone put together a package of lines for the ASS too

Hog On Ice
2012-12-03, 20:43
My ASS was sitting by the front door when I came back from my walk this afternoon. Thanks HOI...I will set it up tomorrow.:biggrin:

bet you land on your ass errr so to speak

SGT Rock
2012-12-03, 20:47
someone should offer them for hammock suspensions commercially - would be nice if someone put together a package of lines for the ASS too

My guess is it is more complicated (with all the lines) than most cottage gear manufacturers want to fool with. If there was a way to make it with one support line and a tree strap, it would be a sure fire hit. Heck, many cottage gear makers don't even put suspension on the hammocks they sell.

Hog On Ice
2012-12-03, 21:01
I tried to make it as simple as possible for the ones I sent out - all three UCRs are the same - 6 footers even though I know most of the time the cross ties would not need anything that long - its one of the reasons I went without the whoopie hook for the primary support UCR - the antislip lines are real simple to make as are the adjustable loops - nice thing about UCRs is that they are real easy to shorten permanently in the field, a sharp knife cut, tie a knot and melt it a little to insure it holds and the line is now a 4 footer or whatever

btw the other reason I went without the whoopie hook was to get the minimum distance from the chair fabric to the support - this becomes important when using a lower spot on a tree to tie onto - using the whoopie hook added about 4 or 5 inches to that minimum distance

SGT Rock
2012-12-04, 04:48
I agree you have made it as simple as it can go.

Hog On Ice
2012-12-04, 09:30
I had another idea pop up last night - add a foot rope from the tree strap and sit in the ASS with my feet up resting on the foot rope - kinda like that idea I had for hammocks - anyways I'll see how it goes today - looks like today is going to be another great day - forecast says 72 deg F for a high - I got no idea as to how to get a pic of the setup however - it would take me more than 10 seconds to push the button on the phone, get in the chair and then get my feet up - 10 seconds is the longest the phone will delay before taking the pic.

Another thing I have been wondering is whether it is possible to sleep all night in the chair - if possible and reasonably comfortable it might be a substitute for a hammock - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Ir-NlfmEY and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8nnAPBL0wk for the origin of the idea

Hog On Ice
2012-12-04, 15:22
foot rope idea didn't work too well - it was OK but unlike with a hammock there is only one point of connection and as a result the side to side motion was unconstrained so I was always having to work to keep my feet where I wanted them - no real stable position that I could relax all the way

I may keep poking at this idea but for now its a flop - it can be made stable but at the cost of added complexity

Pics:

1.) a setup using two long UCRs and a cross stick to rest my feet on

2.) a picture of me in the chair with my feet up - got a passerby to take the pic

3.) a simpler setup just using a loop of 550 cord - same issues but also a problem with the cord pressing into the side of my foot - I stuck a log into the loop so you could see approximately what it was like

SGT Rock
2012-12-19, 22:09
I just uploaded the first video in a three part series on how to build your own ASS. Here it is:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLuuZNg7pQw

SGT Rock
2012-12-20, 07:40
I forgot to post this last night. I finished the third video, the second video still needs work:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aysXBj740rk

D'Artagnan
2012-12-21, 23:47
I think I'm gonna look at buying a sewing machine. I saw a decent "computerized" one at Costco the other day for around $135. Any recommendations?

SGT Rock
2012-12-22, 04:42
Get one that uses thread.

Hog On Ice
2012-12-22, 09:00
one that sews forward and reverse without having to turn the fabric

one feature of mine that I use a lot is an adjustable limiter on the max speed - makes it easier to learn without feeling overwhelmed with the speed

D'Artagnan
2012-12-22, 13:01
Get one that uses thread.

Maybe that's what I've been doing wrong with the needles I bought!

Hog On Ice
2012-12-22, 20:43
tried another idea for getting the foot rest to work - another failure - this time however it wasn't the side to side motion that was the problem but rather the lifting of the feet off the ground - what I did was to attach a foot rest stick to the front stick at the same place where the handles of the trekking poles attach to the front stick - it was OK for resting my feet provided my heels were on the ground but basically very difficult/strenuous to get my feet up in the air and there was no sweet spot where I could rest my legs. If I were to do the same in the original tripod base bushcraft chair it probably would work if I attached the lines to the front legs of the tripod such that the were significantly above the level of my hips - then I could adjust the lines and probably find that sweet spot.

In other news I am trying to get an underquilt to work with the ASS chair - the suspension is the problem at the moment but I am still trying ideas - one idea that I have not tried is to just sew the underquilt to the chair seat - I'm saving that one for last since I suspect it would have some issues also. Currently I am trying to use a rectangular synthetic UQ tied to the front stick and held up with shock cord from the gathered end of the chair - I've tried a couple of different tie points but still am having a small problem with it getting a snug fit to the upper back.

SGT Rock
2012-12-24, 12:54
HOI, I just checked my chair - and the writing came out exactly where it was supposed to ;)

Hog On Ice
2012-12-24, 13:07
good - its a simple feature but it will save wear and tear on the fabric

I'm still poking at how to insulate the chair - one idea I had after playing with my first underquilt was to go to a 1.1 ripstop double layer and use CCF in between the layers - should be easy to make and I would no longer have to sew the channel - it would come naturally with the two layers

SGT Rock
2012-12-24, 14:14
That makes sense to me.

Working on fixing video 2

SGT Rock
2012-12-24, 16:58
I finished the last video today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvaetcCg588

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvaetcCg588

Hog On Ice
2013-01-02, 18:24
I finished up the double layer ASS - it worked well with two wally world pads in between the layers. Because there was no sewn in channel the pads cover all the way from the front stick up to my head. I sat in it this afternoon long enough to feel the warmth of the insulated seat and to get a feel for how comfortable it is compared with the non-insulated ASS - its a good approach nice and comfortable. Next test is to see if I can sleep in it overnight - if so I may have a comfortable alternative to using a hammock - I'll need to figure out a good way to pitch my tarp - I'm thinking of a simple A frame type arrangement possibly with some doors on each end.

Hog On Ice
2013-03-02, 15:44
well I got around to trying an idea to make the ASS more completely portable - basically tie the ASS up to a portable tree err sort of a half hammock stand with a movable base. The pics are fairly obvious so here goes:

First pic is an side view of the portable tree err ASS holder err chair stand with the ASS in place.

Second pic is a back view.

Third pic is a semi closeup of the front - I tried to show the divots I put every three inches on the side rails to hold the pole tips in place but the lighting wasn't the best for that detail and my camera didn't pick up that detail

Fourth pic is a front view.

The chair sits ok but it does feel a bit springier than a real tree - this is expected due to its construction using UCRs for the main structural support for the pole.

Hog On Ice
2013-03-03, 23:05
I have a question for y'all - I now have a supply of both colors of DynaGlide (approximately green and orange) and I was wondering which color should I supply for each type of lines used in the ASS - there are basically four lines or sets of lines used in the ASS - a primary support UCR, two cross tie UCRs, two adjustable loops, and two antislip lines. Sometime ago it was recommended to use different colors for the different lines to make setup a little quicker so what colors should I use for each type of line in the ASS?

Ray
2013-03-04, 21:14
Orange for the things somebody might trip over.

Hog On Ice
2013-03-04, 21:30
kinda what I was thinking too - orange for the antislip lines which are flat on the ground slightly outside the chair and for the primary support line - green for the adjustable loops and cross ties neither one of which is a trip hazard

Ray
2013-03-05, 05:56
Not that it'll make a lot of difference. I replaced all the tie-outs on my Megamid with ... whatever that line is that reflects light. And I know exactly where all the tie-outs are. I still average one trip and fall per night.

SGT Rock
2013-03-05, 10:18
You could also use it as a "cape" during hunting season so it is dual use.

Hog On Ice
2013-04-29, 09:02
one minor tweak that I came up with on my last backpacking trip - by twisting the top connection of a cross tie around the trekking pole handle one can get the cross tie tight while sitting in the chair

one other note - antishock trekking poles are not the best choice for props for the chair - when one sits down the poles shorten a little resulting in loose cross ties

D'Artagnan
2013-04-29, 11:25
So you're saying you need stiff poles for your A.S.S. chair?

Hog On Ice
2013-04-29, 11:29
ahhhhh yes that is one way of saying it

the alternative is to tighten the cross ties after sitting down and to loosen them before standing up

sheepdog
2013-05-31, 19:51
I made a video for HOIs chair, here is the address: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXOFR1DjRRw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXOFR1DjRRw

Good video Rock. Taking my ASS out on Tuesday HOI.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-10, 20:53
I'm thinking of making a couple changes to the ASS chair design:

1. I have not been real happy with the use of the UCRs for the cross ties - they are adjustable but are difficult to adjust while sitting in the chair - the change I am going to try is to use some of the 1.8mm Spyderline with a prussic made from the 200 lb dyneema fishline attached to the handle using either a smaller adjustable loop or attached to the adjustable loop used to lash the front stick to the props - I'll try the separate smaller adjustable loop first so that the prussic is up close where it is easy to reach and easy to adjust the cross ties as a result but it may be OK to just use the existing adjustable loop but it will be a little tougher to reach the prussic - if it stops raining I'll try to get some pics to show how it looks.

2. I also have not been real happy with using the friction tape on the 3/4 inch Sched 40 PVC pipe that I use for the front stick - it works but the adjustable loop sticks to the tape making it a little difficult to get a good tight lashing and in addition it looks like the flex of the pipe puts some sideways force on the tape and it creeps toward the end of the pipe - in other words it will need to be replaced on a regular basis or it may slip off entirely and land the user on the ground. The idea I have currently for a replacement is similar to the rubber rings I tried earlier on in the development cycle but instead of those rings I would make some PVC rings from 3/4 inch couplers - one coupler should make about 4 rings if I cut them carefully - these rings would then be chemically bonded (ie the same procedure normally used to join fittings to the PVC pipe) with the pipe such that there would be two rings on each end of the pipe - each pair of rings would have a bit of a gap between the rings forming a smooth channel for the adjustable loop to sit in. Again pics will come when I actually get this put together.

SGT Rock
2013-06-13, 13:30
HOI, looking for a light saw option to carry when using the ASS, I ran across this: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07139585000P

According to the BPL gram weenies it is only 3.5 ounces.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-13, 13:47
the unmodified Coghlans saw is 5.5 oz and the cheap ($4) but sturdy saw from Dollar General is 6.7 oz - note DG saw is a "TrueLiving Outdoors" brand and the actual saw blade is twice the thickness of the Coghlans saw - the modified Coghlans saw that I showed you once a while ago is 2.2 ounces

SGT Rock
2013-06-13, 17:53
Ever seen one of these: http://compare.ebay.com/like/321127547106?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

They are supposed to weigh 11 grams per a user on this thread: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=26237.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMfnb0Q6M38

SGT Rock
2013-06-13, 18:06
The owner of one of these says it only weighs 3.28 ounces and it appears to cut a little better than the wire saw:

http://goinggear.com/knives-tools/saws/supreme-products-pocket-chainsaw-military-version.html


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2420838/goinggear_com_pocket_chainsaw/

SGT Rock
2013-06-13, 18:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNe7xYjHI6c
Same chainsaw.

D'Artagnan
2013-06-13, 18:11
That's pretty nifty. Plus, you don't have to worry about kick-back.

SGT Rock
2013-06-13, 18:12
Just busted ass arm muscles

Lugnut
2013-06-13, 19:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNe7xYjHI6c
Same chainsaw.

I think having to carry that can of WD40 around would negate the fact that the saw weighs so little.

SGT Rock
2013-06-13, 19:02
I'd just use some olive oil.

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Hog On Ice
2013-06-13, 20:09
wrt the wire saw - I have tried the cheaper version - didn't last very long - perhaps the BCB CM020A would last longer - for cutting sticks for the ASS chair it might be OK for the main cuts but trimming the stick would be a PIA unless you have a second person either hold the stick or one end of the saw or if you improvise a bow saw from the wire saw

wrt the pocket chainsaw with the relatively flat saw links - its been a while since I tried that one also - did not seem to cut all that well iirc - I'm not at all sure I still have that saw - if I do I have long since forgotten where I tossed it

one option you have not mentioned is the version that actually looks similar to a chainsaw chain - Ultimate Survival Technologies SaberCut Saw see link (http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Survival-Technologies-SaberCut-Black/dp/B001H9N8C0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=WLYOM5IFZQAZ&coliid=I2MM7PS407S6XF) - when I was camping with friends a couple months ago we used one of these saws to cut a solid 8 inch log for some firewood - worked quite well with two people cutting - when only one is cutting it still worked OK but not as easy - it was good enough I am considering getting one to have it handy for blowdown work - however it is probably over the top for just cutting sticks for the ASS chair and it also has the problem with trimming the stick after it is cut

SGT Rock
2013-06-14, 05:14
I didn't think about the trimming of the stick. I'd like to try one of the saber cut versions.

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Hog On Ice
2013-06-14, 13:59
...

1. I have not been real happy with the use of the UCRs for the cross ties - they are adjustable but are difficult to adjust while sitting in the chair - the change I am going to try is to use some of the 1.8mm Spyderline with a prussic made from the 200 lb dyneema fish line attached to the handle using either a smaller adjustable loop ...

two approaches were tried - a. with the small adjustable loop and b. a fish line prussic that I larks headed directly around the handle of the pole - both approaches seemed to work OK for adjustments of the cross ties while seated - the fish line larks headed to the handle probably would not be a good choice for cork or foam handles - not an issue of me with the plastic handles - if using soft handles then an adjustable loop made from some flat line like mule tape or possibly shoe laces would be a good idea

pics:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5027&d=1371228436

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5028&d=1371228439

other notes - a two wrapped prussic seemed to be easier to adjust and it held just fine - the three wrap prussic was difficult to move after it had been tensioned up once

I did not try attaching the prussic to the larger adjustable loop used to hold the front stick because it would have put the adjustment out of sight below the seat - IMO its much better to be able to adjust the prussic while looking at it - as it was however one hand had to reach under my leg to hold the prussic while the other hand was pulling the free end of the cross tie

this approach seems to be a good choice - works well and is much easier and cheaper to make

Hog On Ice
2013-06-14, 15:55
...
other notes - a two wrapped prussic seemed to be easier to adjust and it held just fine - the three wrap prussic was difficult to move after it had been tensioned up once
...


well further testing shows that the three wrap prussic is needed to hold the line - wrt difficulty of moving the prussic after tensioning the line this can be addressed by the way the prussic is made - I make the prussics from 16 inches of fish line made into a loop with a double figure 8 knot close as possible to the ends of the line - the prussic is then tied such that this figure eight knot is in the middle of the prussic (the line over the loop between the two halves of the prussic) - this permits the prussic to be loosened by grabbing this figure 8 knot and wiggling/pulling it some - once loosened by this manner the prussic can then be moved where desired

Hog On Ice
2013-06-17, 08:19
CORRECTION: using the fishline prussics on 1.8 Spyderline for the cross ties was one of those ideas that did not work out well in practice - the prussics would either slip under load or would lock so tight that they were _very_ difficult to loosen up and move - with new Spyderline they tend to slip and old line they tend to lock

I may continue to play with the idea but at this time it looks to be a flop

SGT Rock
2013-06-17, 23:13
Have you just tried making fixed length cross ties with the fishing line?

Hog On Ice
2013-06-18, 09:49
I'm fairly sure fixed length with the 200 lb test line will work OK - my goal was to have cross ties I could adjust while sitting down and the prussics were an attempt to do that - by themselves the prussics were basically a failure but ... the idea isn't dead yet - for example one quick fix I tried for the slipping prussic case was to take the tail of the Spyderline and do a round turn and two half hitches with the second hitch slipped around the top of the trekking pole handle - the prussic is used for a temp. set of the length while the round turn etc would hold the line length when stressed by leaning to the side in the chair. In thinking about it it may be possible to use the round turn etc. for the fixed length lines also - for example have a line with a loop on one end for the tip of the pole then the other end is tied to the handle of the opposite pole using the round turn etc. (this would be done while the chair is being setup on the ground) then after the chair has been setup and the user is sitting in the chair the cross tie could be tightened by undoing the slipped hitch and working the slack around the round turn then retying the slipped hitch. The problem I see with this approach is one of training the user - as it is the user training for the ASS chair setup is probably its greatest obstacle to the acceptance of the ASS chair by the general public.

Elder
2013-06-18, 10:16
Are you going to offer Certified ASS training? Inquiring minds...might Not want to know.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-18, 10:27
I think one would have to be certifiable if they _wanted_ to do ASS training.

SGT Rock
2013-06-18, 21:41
HOI, is this the saw you were talking about?

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Survival-Technologies-SaberCut-Black/dp/B001H9N8C0

Hog On Ice
2013-06-18, 21:43
yes that is the one that looked good for trail work

SGT Rock
2013-06-18, 21:49
That wouldn't be hard to add to a trail pack for some light blow down work.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-19, 19:19
back to the goal of cross tie adjustment while seated - this is one of those "I should have thought of this one first" - in the discussion about the Frankenhammock the tensioning of the sides that I suggested was to have a sliding larks head on two lines (very similar to the adjustable loop) - tension it up by separating the two lines causing the locking overhand knot to move to tighten the lines or pull on the release string to cause the overhand knot to move away from the larks head thus allowing the line to slacken. This same approach can be used with the cross ties - photos to come. This should also work with the 200 lb 0.8 mm fish line.

SGT Rock
2013-06-19, 20:06
Makes sense.

Lugnut
2013-06-19, 22:36
Not to me. I never understand anything HOI is talking about! :ahhhhh:

Superman
2013-06-19, 22:41
Not to me. I never understand anything HOI is talking about! :ahhhhh:

Maybe it's an age thing.

SGT Rock
2013-06-19, 22:45
A lot of times I don't, mainly because I don't speak knots. But it this case we have worked in person together on this and I've seen how it works. The technique he is talking about is pretty cool.

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Lugnut
2013-06-19, 22:51
Maybe it's an age thing.

Well he is pretty old but I don't think that is the problem. :angel:

Superman
2013-06-19, 23:00
Well he is pretty old but I don't think that is the problem. :angel:

Oh, I know Hoi is way younger than you.

sheepdog
2013-06-19, 23:11
Not to me. I never understand anything HOI is talking about! :ahhhhh:

Yeah, it's kinda like dolphin squeaks.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-20, 13:16
I used up my last bit of the fish line but I think this just might be a winner.

OK here are the pics:

first is a pic of the adjustment point for the cross ties - its easy to access from a seated position

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5079&d=1371744773

second is an over view of the cross tie as it would be stored in the bag, the small larks head on left goes over tip of pole and larger larks head on the right goes over the opposite handle above the strap connection

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5080&d=1371744774

third is a close up of the loop for the tip with the larks head expanded - the loop itself is just a bowline loop

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5081&d=1371744775

fourth is a closeup of the attachment of the adjustment lines to the upper bowline loop - a single line is doubled over and then larks headed on to the bowline loop

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5082&d=1371744776

lastly is the working end of the cross tie with a separate loop larks headed on to the two adjustment lines - this separate loop needs to be big enough so that it can be larks headed over the top of the handle of the pole but not too much bigger - the two adjustment lines are tied with a single overhand knot which is what locks the cross tie length

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5083&d=1371744778

chumpchange
2013-06-22, 16:31
cool idea!

how often should you wash your ASS?

sheepdog
2013-06-22, 16:36
hahahahahahahaha................snort

Hog On Ice
2013-06-22, 16:43
cool idea!

how often should you wash your ASS?

up to the owner - but it should be noted that the more it is washed the faster it will rip

chumpchange
2013-06-22, 17:01
up to the owner - but it should be noted that the more it is washed the faster it will rip

that fissures.

john pickett
2013-06-24, 18:48
"Maybe it's an age thing"
Maybe it's a "Smart" thing.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-24, 19:04
well I just ordered 1000m of yellow 200 lb dyneema fish line from Hong Kong - decided to go with yellow because it is easier to see if you drop it in the leaves

As soon as I get the line (early to mid July they say) I will be making a simpler form of the cross tie where the doubled part of the tie goes all the way to the tip of the pole - I did not do that this time cause I just did not have enough line plus the way I went is a gram or two lighter than the doubled all the way approach

Another note on adjusting the cross tie - I decided to not bother with the release loop since I would only lengthen the line when not seated in the chair - in addition the tightening process goes a little smoother if one grabs the two free ends and pulls them both together while holding the sliding larks head - once tight then spread the lines apart to move the overhand knot up to the larks head.

sheepdog
2013-06-24, 22:13
got it :top:

SGT Rock
2013-06-24, 22:16
I'll wait until he bug proofs it.

sheepdog
2013-06-24, 23:30
I'll wait until he shows me how.

Lugnut
2013-06-24, 23:47
Think I will just sit on a log and avoid all that thinking.

Skidsteer
2013-06-24, 23:54
5090

sheepdog
2013-06-25, 00:16
5090

zacktly

Ray
2013-06-25, 07:33
I was thinking HOI needs to remove "Simple" from the name.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-25, 08:29
well then it wouldn't be an ASS chair

besides I like the sarcasm

SGT Rock
2013-06-25, 11:32
The center S is in italics ASS Chair.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-26, 08:20
wish me luck folks - today is the day I open the bag of down and try to blow the down into the new chair's baffles using the down eductor (http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?7368-Useful-shit-found-on-the-web&p=308130#post308130)

sheepdog
2013-06-26, 10:15
Luck Hoi!

Hog On Ice
2013-06-26, 10:48
well it was an educational experience but its done and the place needed a vacuuming anyways

the down eductor worked fairly well and relatively little down was lost as a result

sheepdog
2013-06-26, 11:43
I've got a couple pounds of loose down waiting to go in an underquilt. Still scares me.

SGT Rock
2013-06-26, 11:59
Down is a funny mistress.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-26, 12:01
yeah - I was pretty nervous too - hands a shaking worse than usual

some lessons learned:

1. before starting cool the room when you will be working down as low as reasonably possible - while using down you will have no AC or other fans active and if you start to sweat the down will stick to your hands and elsewhere

2. if using a down eductor or other blower based system close off the unused baffles with clothes pins or binder clips - this keeps the air from blowing strongly out the unused baffles and disturbing / blowing the down out of the supply bag/box

3. when sewing closed each baffle as soon as it is filled make sure its completely closed or else filling the next baffle will blow the down out any gaps

4. sewing the baffle to be filled partly closed works well - leave just enough of an opening to get the fill pipe in

5. have a table to support the fabric while filling it - otherwise the fabric folds and its more difficult to fill

6. when duct taping the eductor to the blower hose use lots of duct tape to make sure it does not come undone while in the middle of filling a baffle

7. if using a vacuum cleaner for the blower make sure the hose is securely attached to the blower hole if at all possible - its real annoying when it falls out

SGT Rock
2013-06-26, 12:06
Pictures of the chair coming?

Hog On Ice
2013-06-26, 12:12
yeah - waiting to this afternoon so there will be some shade where I will be taking the pictures

it turned out OK for a first attempt - I probably made it a bit too thick - 2.5 inch baffles x 24 inch x 6 inch qty 6 - used 800 fp down 0.5 ounce / baffle, 3 ounce total of down - should pack a whole lot better than that CCF pad I was using

sheepdog
2013-06-26, 12:34
I was thinking of wetting it down. I could then dived it up, sew it in the quilt and put it in the dryer. What do you think?

SGT Rock
2013-06-26, 13:37
I was thinking of wetting it down. I could then dived it up, sew it in the quilt and put it in the dryer. What do you think?

sounds like a sticky mess.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-26, 17:32
I was thinking of wetting it down. I could then dived it up, sew it in the quilt and put it in the dryer. What do you think?

the problem is weighing the down - when wetted you have no way of knowing how much down you are really putting in each baffle - what I did was to put a bag of down in a box (with bag) and put the box + bag + down on a scale that is good to .01 ounces and hit the tare button - as the down was drawn out by the eductor I would check the reading of the scale and when it reached -0.50 ounces then I knew I had put enough down into that baffle.

sheepdog
2013-06-26, 18:05
how much is an eductor? I am not going to do a lot of this stuff.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-26, 18:10
its three pieces of sink drain plastic from Lowes - not real sure but I would guess around $10-20, some duct tape, and a vacuum cleaner that can be used as a blower

Hog On Ice
2013-06-26, 19:48
pics of the down ASS chair - note the fabric used is 1.1 ripstop nylon uncoated but it looks very shiny in the pics

first pic is showing the underside of the chair just spread out on the ground

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5098&d=1372286566

second pic is a side view of the chair setup

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5096&d=1372286562

third pic is a front view of the chair setup

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5097&d=1372286564

forth pic is me sitting on my nice warm ASS

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5095&d=1372286560

SGT Rock
2013-06-26, 20:57
I'm impressed.:congrats:

Hog On Ice
2013-06-27, 13:25
how much is an eductor? I am not going to do a lot of this stuff.


its three pieces of sink drain plastic from Lowes - not real sure but I would guess around $10-20, some duct tape, and a vacuum cleaner that can be used as a blower

stopped by Lowes today to price it out:
1 1/2 inch End Outlet Tee and Tail Piece $3.88
1 1/2 inch 8" Sink Tail Piece $2.24
1 1/2 inch 4" Sink Tail Piece $1.94

so even with tax its under $10

Hog On Ice
2013-06-27, 13:41
yeah - I was pretty nervous too - hands a shaking worse than usual

some lessons learned:

1. before starting cool the room when you will be working down as low as reasonably possible - while using down you will have no AC or other fans active and if you start to sweat the down will stick to your hands and elsewhere

2. if using a down eductor or other blower based system close off the unused baffles with clothes pins or binder clips - this keeps the air from blowing strongly out the unused baffles and disturbing / blowing the down out of the supply bag/box

3. when sewing closed each baffle as soon as it is filled make sure its completely closed or else filling the next baffle will blow the down out any gaps

4. sewing the baffle to be filled partly closed works well - leave just enough of an opening to get the fill pipe in

5. have a table to support the fabric while filling it - otherwise the fabric folds and its more difficult to fill

6. when duct taping the eductor to the blower hose use lots of duct tape to make sure it does not come undone while in the middle of filling a baffle

7. if using a vacuum cleaner for the blower make sure the hose is securely attached to the blower hole if at all possible - its real annoying when it falls out

one additional learned item:

8. if the eductor gets clogged with down while filling a baffle lift eductor out of the down and manually blow into the collector tube (the pipe that goes into the bulk down container)

sheepdog
2013-06-27, 13:43
stopped by Lowes today to price it out:
1 1/2 inch End Outlet Tee and Tail Piece $3.88
1 1/2 inch 8" Sink Tail Piece $2.24
1 1/2 inch 4" Sink Tail Piece $1.94

so even with tax its under $10

Is there a youtube video on construction and use? Thanks HOI you are da man.

sheepdog
2013-06-27, 13:44
pics of the down ASS chair - note the fabric used is 1.1 ripstop nylon uncoated but it looks very shiny in the pics

first pic is showing the underside of the chair just spread out on the ground

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5098&d=1372286566


second pic is a side view of the chair setup

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5096&d=1372286562

third pic is a front view of the chair setup

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5097&d=1372286564

forth pic is me sitting on my nice warm ASS

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5095&d=1372286560

That chair is impressive.

Hog On Ice
2013-06-27, 15:57
Is there a youtube video on construction and use? Thanks HOI you are da man.

not youtube but a video: http://www.wvi.com/~ulmyog/DownEductor_4BPL.wmv

some discussion see 8th post down in this thread: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=33573

sheepdog
2013-06-27, 16:01
not youtube but a video: http://www.wvi.com/~ulmyog/DownEductor_4BPL.wmv

some discussion see 8th post down in this thread: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=33573

Way cool HOI. I think I can do that.

or should I say "I'm down wid dat?"

SGT Rock
2013-06-27, 16:17
That is the bomb!

Hog On Ice
2013-06-27, 16:45
one idea mentioned on that thread that I wish I had thought of was to use climber's chalk on the hands to keep the down from sticking - I wonder if latex gloves would have worked also to keep the down from sticking

Hog On Ice
2013-07-08, 14:43
meanwhile back on the idea of the adjustable cross ties for the chair made from dyneema fishing line - for the most part the idea is working out good but I did have one issue that I should have remembered - dyneema/Spectra needs a little extra work to hold knots - the single overhand knot (aka Half Knot (http://www.animatedknots.com/halfknot/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)) I was using for a stopper knot was not enough after the line had a chance to wear a little and smooth out and thus it started to slip - the fix is easy however - just tuck the line one more time producing a Double Half Knot or the first half of a Surgeon's Knot - see pic:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5119&d=1373305245

Hog On Ice
2013-07-09, 14:57
yesterday I got my shipment of fishing line from Hong Kong - faster delivery than expected - anyways here are some pics of a simple adjustable cross tie using the new line:

here is the new line on a spool:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5120&d=1373391714

to make the cross ties I measured/cut 8 feet of line, doubled it over and tied a figure eight knot about 4 inches from the point it was doubled over :

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5121&d=1373391715

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5122&d=1373391717

to make the loop that goes on the handle i measured/cut 13 inches of line for my particular poles and tied a loop using a figure eight knot again then larks headed this loop onto the two long tails of the main part of the cross tie - also shown is the double half knot that is used as the stopper knot tied using the ends of the long lines

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5123&d=1373391719

to put the small loop onto the handle form a larks head and push some of the main line into the formed knot as seen:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5124&d=1373391720

after tightening the larks head on the handle note that the main lines are not in the larks head on the handle - also note the figure eight knot for the small loop is in a position closest to the main lines - this allows the larks head on the handle to be quickly removed by just pulling on the figure eight knot:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5125&d=1373391722

one last note - every time I cut the line I would melt the ends thus formed to keep the braid from unbraiding itself with use

SGT Rock
2013-07-15, 16:18
Brilliant! In more ways than one!

Hog On Ice
2013-07-15, 16:46
thank you

and now the question is whether the fishing line is good enough for the safety line / anti slip line going from the stakes to the bottom of the poles - I suspect it is but ...

SGT Rock
2013-07-15, 17:22
I bet it is.

Hog On Ice
2013-07-22, 11:57
well I gave the fish line a try as the anti-slip / safety lines and they worked fine so far

I've changed the cross ties slightly to better handle using found sticks for the support props - I found that a fixed loop really only is good for attaching to trekking poles - for found sticks it helps to have the attachment be adjustable to permit a variety of diameter sticks and yet have the cross tie adjustment point still be convenient for adjustment while seated - so I changed the loop to be a small fixed size and then ran an adjustable loop through the small loop so as to handle different size sticks

pics:

first pic is an expanded view of the attachment and adjustment lines showing the smaller loop and the new adjustable loop

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5149&d=1374504507

second pic shows the cross tie attached to a found stick that I have previously used as a prop - note the adjustable loop is locked with a bow knot as is required whenever an adjustable loop is tied around a hard object like a stick - this is very similar to the attachment of the front stick to the prop sticks - also note there was a small notch cut in the stick near the top of the handle so the cross tie does not slip down the handle

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5150&d=1374504509

there is another benefit of using the adjustable loop for the attachment to the handle - if using a foam or cork handled trekking pole it is possible to use a flat cord such as mule tape or gutted 550 cord for the adjustable loop so that the fish line would not cut into the softer handle - pic:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5151&d=1374504510

Hog On Ice
2013-07-22, 12:22
some notes about using found sticks as support props

1. pick a stick with a knob or small branch where the front stick is to be tied to the prop stick - if one can't be found it is also OK to just cut a small notch in the stick where the front stick is to be tied onto the prop stick

2. cut the stick so that approximately 30-32 inches of relatively straight stick is below the knob or notch that is to be used for the attachment of the front stick and so that there is 4-5 inches above the knob or notch

3. cut the second prop stick so that the length from its knob/notch is the same as the first prop stick - this is relatively important so the chair sits "level" from side to side

4. notch the base of the prop sticks where the safety line and lower cross tie larks heads are going to be attached and notch the upper part of the handle section for the upper cross tie attachment (as noted in the previous posting)

5. test the stick to verify that they probably won't break by trying to break the sticks one at a time across your knee while holding the ends of the stick

pics:

first pic shows the small knob used on the first prop stick to attach the front stick and shows the notch cut in the upper handle for the cross tie attachment

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5152&d=1374506008

second pic shows the length of the stick and the notch cut into the base of the stick for the safety line lower cross tie attachment

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5153&d=1374506010

third pic shows that the knobs for both prop sticks are the same distance from their bases

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5154&d=1374506011

Hog On Ice
2013-07-24, 17:35
a few odds and ends today - first up using a pool noodle as a pad on the front stick to make the chair feel a bit more comfortable - I slid a length of pool noodle over the 3/4 inch sch40 PVC pipe I typically use for my front stick as seen in this pic:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5159&d=1374697938

here is the chair with the pool noodle covered stick:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5160&d=1374697941

it felt a bit more comfortable - a small plus but not a great improvement - in other words it won't be something I'll pack even though I often will pack the pipe

SGT Rock
2013-07-24, 17:39
Interesting idea there.

Hog On Ice
2013-07-24, 17:47
In the second picture above you may notice that I was using a different suspension for the chair - following up on my idea for the easy to adjust cross ties I did approximately the same thing for the primary suspension using a doubled over section of DynaGlide through a larks head loop attached to the chair

here is a sort of close up view of the connection to the chair with the lines sort of spread out so one can see the knots - also note the loop on the chair is knotted with a double figure eight knot - this knot makes it rather easy to remove the suspension from the chair when packing up - easier than the similar way that the current UCR based suspension is attached to the chair - just grab the knot at the chair and pull - it loosens right up

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5161&d=1374698732

the next picture shows how the double line is attached to the tree strap - larks headed in much the same way as the UCR would have been larks headed

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5162&d=1374698734

SGT Rock
2013-07-24, 17:50
I get it. That actually makes sense the first time I looked at it. For once.

Hog On Ice
2013-07-24, 18:06
EDIT - the following approach has some problems with the slip knot jamming after being loaded for a while - jammed hard enough it took me a couple minutes to undo the slip knot - this means I will still be playing with this idea to find an approach that is quick to adjust and does not slip under load.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

at this point it started raining so I moved into a pavilion to show another way that the chair (or hammock) could be suspended - the thing I did not like was using twice the length of DynaGlide for the previous suspension so with the idea of reducing cost and weight I came up with a similar suspension using a single line from the tree strap to the larks head loop - here the approach is to tie a slip knot in the bight as a stopper knot for the sliding larks head - I was a little concerned about slippage so I tested it with the slipperiest line I had that would hold the weight - a pure uncoated dyneema line

The first couple pictures show how the line is attached to the tree strap - basically a figure eight knot in the end of the line for a safety stopper then a double sheet bend attaching the line to the strap

here is the sheet bend loosely tied so one can see the way the line goes around the strap:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5163&d=1374699256

here is the sheet bend after tightening:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5164&d=1374699258

the next three pics show the adjustment point for the suspension

first is the loop larks headed loosely on the main line - this is the loop that would be also larks headed onto the chair:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5165&d=1374699260

to set the stopper knot a slip knot is tied in the blight from the loose line below the sliding larks heat knot:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5166&stc=1&d=1374699262

here is the adjustment point tightened up :

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5167&d=1374699264

to adjust the length just pull the loose end to undo the stopper/slip knot, slide the larks head to a point just above where desired, and then tie a new slip knot just under the sliding larks head - pull the attachment to the chair down to verify that the knot was properly made and one is done

Hog On Ice
2013-07-26, 18:00
While hiking today the answer to the jammed knot problem came to me. I was thinking about the classic way to handle a jam prone knot which was to include a stick in the knot such that if the knot jams one just breaks the stick and the knot is released. Unfortunately I think this technique this does not work for the slip knot I was originally trying (previous post) but I did remember a knot used with a stick for a similar application - the PCT bear bagging technique. I had described the knot previously in the post http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?6850-Dutchware-no-knot-bear-bagging-update-Givin-The-Dog-a-Bone&p=270717#post270717 and copied below:

1. hand holding chair up holds a bight of the line under the thumb
2. other hand puts stick under the bight and thumb so that thumb and bight are "on top off" the stick and thumb is holding stick and bight against index finger
3. wrap bight around stick with other hand passing under where the stick is being held
4. bring bight across back of thumb and loop it over the end of the stick
5. slide thumb out from under bight and pull free end with other hand to tighten

I think this is basically the same as ABOK 1815 called a Pile Hitch

see pic for how it looks before tightening

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3001&d=1327695679

While sitting on top of Rocky Mount (Shen NP) I tried this technique with both the pure uncoated dyneema as well as the 2.8 mm Spyderline - both lines worked well with the knot holding position and ease of untying.

Hog On Ice
2013-08-08, 11:37
I've come to the conclusion that the 200 lb test fishing line is probably not a good choice for the adjustable cross ties - see prior post for the description of the adjustable cross ties link (http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?7264-A-Simple-Sling-chair&p=318932#post318932)

In particular I have broken the 200 lb line right at the double half knot three times when setting the chair to the lowered "sleeping" position and the ground conditions were not the best - a small slip and the line can snap. So for using this technique I would recommend using a stronger line - currently I am planning on using the 1.8 mm Spyder Line - a 350 lb line - this line will have a better safety margin and hopefully will not snap under less than optimal conditions. If I have problems with the 1.8 mm Spyder Line I'll go all the way to the 2 mm DynaGlide with its 1000 lb strength.

Using the 200 lb line for fixed length cross ties is probably OK but I have not a lot of run time with that approach so I don't know if it will have the same issue.

One approach that looks to have some value for added safety is to adjust the cross ties so that they are somewhat long so that the pole tips are farther apart and the over all frame looks like an isosceles trapezoid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isosceles_trapezoid).

front stick is the top, poles are the sides and the ground is the bottom :

upper part is the front stick
pole http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Isosceles_trapezoid.svg/220px-Isosceles_trapezoid.svg.png pole
bottom is the ground

The added safety comes from the side to side force of the chair going down the pole instead of being held by the cross tie line. The disadvantage for this approach is that the handles will be angled inward thus reducing the width of the seat slightly.

sheepdog
2013-10-23, 10:54
You going to the Christmas party HOI?

Hog On Ice
2013-10-23, 11:22
wasn't planning on it

Hog On Ice
2013-10-23, 16:05
well sometimes things work better in practice than they do on the table - the following hack errr modification is one of that type - this latest mod is to make the setup of the chair faster and simpler when used with trekking poles and a PVC pipe for the cross bar

in summary the changes were as follows:

1. use a sleeve that slips over the handle of the pole - no more tying lines to the poles - sleeve has sewn on loops for the cross tie adjustment at the top and a loop with an adjustable loop threaded through it on the bottom - the adjustable loop holds the PVC pipe semi permanently

2. glue on rings to the PVC pipe so there is no more friction tape and its associated gunk

3. change the cross tie connection to the tip of the pole to have a line from the knot available to be the safety line - no more fiddling with a separate safety line it - is now part of the cross tie

4. shorten the adjustable part of the cross tie and tie it to the other leg from the knot that forms the loop that slips over the tip of the pole

pics -
over view of the sleeve:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5377&d=1382554071

view of safety line now part of the cross tie:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5373&d=1382553955

closeup of the rings on the bar and how it is tied to the sleeve with the adjustable loop

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5374&d=1382553962

view (poor pic due to glare but ..) of the upper part of the new cross tie and its connection to the upper part of the sleeve

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5375&d=1382553965

proof that I actually tried it out (beard tucked in shirt):

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5376&d=1382553968

the surprising part of all this is that as I put it together and got it hung it felt really loose but when I (carefully) sat on it it all tightened up and felt as good as the other versions of the chair if not a bit better - better because it was a bit wider due to the poles being located just to the outside of the ends of the bar

Mother Nature
2013-10-24, 07:44
I look forward to trying it out! How about a video?


well sometimes things work better in practice than they do on the table - the following hack errr modification is one of that type - this latest mod is to make the setup of the chair faster and simpler when used with trekking poles and a PVC pipe for the cross bar

in summary the changes were as follows:

1. use a sleeve that slips over the handle of the pole - no more tying lines to the poles - sleeve has sewn on loops for the cross tie adjustment at the top and a loop with an adjustable loop threaded through it on the bottom - the adjustable loop holds the PVC pipe semi permanently

2. glue on rings to the PVC pipe so there is no more friction tape and its associated gunk

3. change the cross tie connection to the tip of the pole to have a line from the knot available to be the safety line - no more fiddling with a separate safety line it - is now part of the cross tie

4. shorten the adjustable part of the cross tie and tie it to the other leg from the knot that forms the loop that slips over the tip of the pole

pics -
over view of the sleeve:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5377&d=1382554071

view of safety line now part of the cross tie:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5373&d=1382553955

closeup of the rings on the bar and how it is tied to the sleeve with the adjustable loop

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5374&d=1382553962

view (poor pic due to glare but ..) of the upper part of the new cross tie and its connection to the upper part of the sleeve

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5375&d=1382553965

proof that I actually tried it out (beard tucked in shirt):

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5376&d=1382553968

the surprising part of all this is that as I put it together and got it hung it felt really loose but when I (carefully) sat on it it all tightened up and felt as good as the other versions of the chair if not a bit better - better because it was a bit wider due to the poles being located just to the outside of the ends of the bar

Mother Nature
2013-10-28, 06:59
Well I took my modified ties and chair to a hiking club annual picnic last night. The chair was a hit! AND I set the thing up all by myself....well for the most part. We had to try and put the poles in gravel and that was a challenge I let Smokestack enjoy after I cursed a few times.

The best part was watching everyone kind of circle the chair while I was up and chatting. Every once in a while someone would get brave and sit down. The expression on their faces was priceless. Awwwwwwwww.

HOI..PS...Darrell was there and got his chair. Says he hopes you come back to GA soon for a reunion hike.

Hog On Ice
2013-10-28, 10:20
other than the gravel how was the setup - faster? easier?

SGT Rock
2013-10-28, 22:43
Have you considered running one line down the center of the PVC pipe with adjustable loops on both ends, that way instead of a figure 8, you just snug both ends to the handles. I don't know if it would work, just a thought.

Hog On Ice
2013-10-28, 23:05
yeah it works OK and was the original way I was holding the front stick as can be seen in this pic from 3 years ago from the first chair:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2825&d=1321296085

I went away from that approach mainly so that the cross bar could be a found stick and not a pipe.

I probably could revive this idea for use with the sleeve approach since the sleeve approach already assumes that the cross bar is a pipe

SGT Rock
2013-10-29, 13:42
Now that you point it out I remember that. Probably subconscious source for my "idea" .

Hog On Ice
2013-11-30, 16:11
I recently built another ASS chair including all the options to make it easy to make and easy/fast to setup. This particular model assumes that the user is willing to carry the cross bar in addition to the rest of the pieces of the chair and that the user will have two trekking poles or equivalent sticks to be used for the poles. Over the next several posts I will present the photographs I made during the building of the chair and describe the steps in making the chair.

Part 1 - the sleeves that fit over the handle ends off the poles

The fabric I used here is a heavy polyester normally used for "outdoor furniture upholstery" - I would estimate it at approximately a 4 ounce/sq yd fabric.

Step 1.1 cut the fabric using a "hot knife" aka a soldering iron:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5473&d=1385840703

The hot knife is used on a piece of glass that I have taped up the edges on. Two pieces of fabric are cut - each basically 6x8 inches and with a 1.5 inch cut in the long side center. The corners are cut off to allow for easier handling of the channels.

Step 1.2 sew the two channels along the long sides of the fabric:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5474&d=1385840705

note the fabric is tucked under so that the edge of the fabric is inside the channel. Also note the slit on the side is just long enough to have in effect two separate channels on that one side that feed into each other.

Step 1.3 sew a loop of DynaGlide onto the fabric

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5475&d=1385840707

DynaGlide line is 9 inches long doubled back, it sewn using a 3 mm zigzag so that the needle alternates piercing the two parts of the loop, the line is triple stitched to make sure it holds. The loop is sewn on left side of fabric for one of the sleeves and on the right side of the fabric for the other sleeve

Step 1.4 sew the short edges of the sleeve together

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5476&d=1385840709

this edge is triple stitched using a 2 mm zigzag and care is take to not stitch into the channels

Step 1.5 turn sleeves right side out

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5477&d=1385840711

... to be continued

Hog On Ice
2013-11-30, 16:46
Part 2 feeding the lines into the channels of the sleeves

Step 2.1 feed a doubled line around the lower channels and tie it into an adjustable loop

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5478&d=1385842502

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5479&d=1385842504

This piece of DynaGlide is 24 inches long, 12 inches doubled over. The purpose of this adjustable loop is to permit the user to fine tune the sleeve to just fit over the handle of the pole being used. This adjustment is generally done once and then left alone so the locking knot used is just a double half knot (first half of the surgeons knot) and not a bow knot. Start feeding the doubled line at the slit between the two bottom channels and the adjustment knot will be at this point after finishing the adjustable loop. This adjustment will be out the outside of the chair - the side of the handle away from the seated person.

Step 2.2 use a zip tie in the upper channel to form top of the sleeve

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5483&d=1385842506

After pulling the zip tie tight cut off the excess part of the tie and try to stick the locking piece into the channel. Make sure the loop is sticking out the top of the sleeve. The loop at the top is used to attach the cross tie and forms part of the adjustment of the cross tie.

Step 2.3 loop an adjustable loop through the opening where the bottom channels end at the seam in the sleeve

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5482&d=1385842508

Again this adjustable loop just uses a double half knot as its lock since once it is tightened around the cross bar it normally will not be loosened.

... to be continued

Hog On Ice
2013-11-30, 17:18
Part 3 the cross ties are made and attached to the sleeves

Step 3.1 feed doubled line into larks head formed in loop on sleeve

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5486&d=1385844828

This piece of DynaGlide is 48 inches long, 24 inches long after doubling over. I find it easier to form the larks head on the loop using a hemostat then pull the two ends through the larks head knot. Note the ends are not melted until after being pulled through the larks head knot. This doubled line forms the fine adjustment for the length of the cross tie and with the adjustment point being the top of the sleeve permits tightening the cross tie while seated in the chair.

Step 3.2 tie locking knot in cross tie adjustment

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5487&d=1385844830

Again this uses the double half knot - the assumption here is that the only adjustment the user will do while seated is to tighten the cross tie. To loosen the cross tie the user must be out of the chair then the user can pull up the adjustment lines, stick a finger behind the locking knot and work the knot up to lengthen the cross tie.

Step 3.3 tie loop for the tip of the pole

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5488&d=1385844831

This piece of DynaGlide starts out as 84 inches long. 36 inches from one end a loop is tied using a figure eight knot. This small loop slips over the tip of the pole and the 36 inch section of line is used to wrap around the safety stake to hold the tip of the pole into place during use of the chair.

Step 3.4 tie a series of figure eight knots in longer part of the lower cross tie

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5489&d=1385844833

These knots are approximately 6 inches apart and are used as a coarse adjustment for the length of the cross tie.

Step 3.5 larks head the upper part of the cross tie onto the lower part of the cross tie

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5490&d=1385844835

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5491&d=1385844836

After tightening the larks head slide it up to just under the figure eight knot that is just above the larks head knot

Step 3.6 store cross tie by stuffing it into the sleeve

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5492&d=1385844838

... to be continued

Hog On Ice
2013-11-30, 17:54
Part 4 make the cross bar

Step 4.1 gather tools and material

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5494&d=1385846670

Basically the process is to take a 24 inch section of PVC pipe and to glue on four rings made from a coupler for that size pipe. The pipe used in this example is 3/4 inch SCH 40 PVC pipe.

Step 4.2 mark lines around coupler where the rings are to be cut

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5495&d=1385846674

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5496&d=1385846676

I just use the pipe cutter to mark the lines - the cuts are made with a saw.

Step 4.3 cut rings from coupler

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5497&d=1385846678

I find sticking the coupler on a scrap piece of pipe works good enough for holding the coupler while I am cutting the rings.

Step 4.4 deburr and smooth rings

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5498&d=1385846679

It is important to keep track of where the rings were cut - the two rings cut from the outside of the coupler are slightly easier to push onto the pipe and the ones from the inside are a tight fit - the outside rings are used first sliding the furthest on the pipe and the the inside rings are forced onto the very end of the pipe.

Step 4.5 glue the rings onto the pipe

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5499&d=1385846681

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5501&d=1385847172

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5500&d=1385846683

The socket was used as a tool the set the distance the first ring was pushed onto the pipe. The ring on the end of the pipe was forced on by pushing the pipe down onto the table. The pipe wrench was just used to support the pipe while the glue sets. Note after pushing a ring onto the pipe I would wipe off the excess glue. After the glue set I would also sand the rings and pipe to make sure it is smooth.

... to be continued

Hog On Ice
2013-11-30, 18:17
Part 5 make the sling seat

Step 5.1 cut the fabric for the seat

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5502&d=1385848771

In this example the fabric being used is a 1.9 ounce rip stop nylon. I use a rotary cutter on a cutting mat. The fabric is cut to a 56 inches by 26 inches rectangle. Do not cut this on the bias - cut along the warp and weft directions.

Step 5.2 hem the seat fabric

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5503&d=1385848773

I use a 0.5 inch rolled hem on all four sides of the seat fabric.

Step 5.3 mark "This Side Down" on part of seat fabric that will be the bottom of the cross bar channel

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5504&d=1385848774

I use a wide black Sharpie and try to mark it neatly but sometimes readable is the best I can do.

Step 5.4 fold the marked end under and pin to form the cross bar channel

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5505&d=1385848776

In this example I made the channel 5.5 inches wide.

Step 5.5 triple sew the cross bar channel

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5506&d=1385848778

I sew one line using a straight stitch then two lines of 5 mm zig zag offset from each other making sure to reinforce the stitching at the ends of the channel.

Step 5.6 cut two thin ribbons and set into the ends of the channel

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5507&d=1385848780

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5508&d=1385848782

The ribbons are 3/8 inch wide and 24 inches long. The ribbons are sewn into the front most part of the cross bar channel on the inside of the channel and are used to keep the seat fabric positioned correctly on the cross bar.

... to be continued

Hog On Ice
2013-11-30, 18:36
Part 6 attach primary support line to seat

Step 6.1 fold top of seat fabric to gather it together

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5509&d=1385850253

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5510&d=1385850255

I use the yellow metal yard stick to hold the fabric in place at the center of the fabric and then I fold the fabric three times on each side into the center to gather the fabric together. Then I remove the yard stick and fold the two halves together back to back.

Step 6.2 tie the gathered fabric together

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5511&d=1385850257

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5512&d=1385850259

I use a constrictor knot to hold the gathered end together. After I tied the knot and tighten it I cut off the excess line and melt the ends of the line to keep it neat.

Step 6.3 tie the primary support line onto the gathered end of the seat fabric

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5513&d=1385850261

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5514&d=1385850263

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5515&d=1385850265

Here I am using a simple support system - the line is 0.5 inch 1200 pound mule tape - I cut 96 inches of mule tape for the support line. The line is larks headed onto the gathered end of the fabric making sure the free end is closest to the end of the fabric. After the larks head is tightened a slipped hitch is added using the free end to ensure that the support line won't slip. The mule tape is typically tied around the tree using either a Portuguese bowline knot or a round turn and two half hitches.

... to be continued

Hog On Ice
2013-11-30, 18:58
Part 7 final assembly

Step 7.1 slide cross bar into seat channel and tie seat to cross bar

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5516&d=1385851318

Note seat is tied in the gap between the two rings on the end of the cross bar - this keeps the fabric spread out for the seat.

Step 7.2 attach sleeve to end of cross bar

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5517&d=1385851320

The adjustable loop is tightened and then locked into place with the double half knot - this loop is not normally loosened however if using found sticks for the cross bar then use a bow knot to lock the adjustable loop.

Step 7.3 adjust sleeve to just fit over the handle of the pole

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5518&d=1385851322

Again this adjustment is normally only done once and thus the use of the double half knot as the lock. If using found sticks for poles then this adjustment may need to be adjusted in the field and so in that case a bow knot would be a better choice for the locking knot. THis adjustment is mainly to make sure the sleeve is held in place on the handle of the pole when sitting down on the chair.

Step 7.4 wrap up for putting the chair into a pack

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5519&d=1385851323

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5520&d=1385851325

Tuck the cross ties into the sleeves, tuck the sleeves into the cross bar channel, roll up the chair fabric on the cross bar, and wrap support line around the bundle finishing up with a tuck and half hitch.

Step 7.5 weigh the result

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5521&d=1385851327

Final weight 332 grams or a bit less than 12 ounces does not include the weight of the two safety stakes. It is assumed the safety stakes are being carried in the same stake bag as is used to the rest of the stakes for the tent/tarp the backpacker is using,

Elder
2013-12-02, 23:20
[QUOTE=Hog on Ice

Step 5.1 cut the fabric for the seat

Oops, thought for a minute this was the Daily Ass...

Hog On Ice
2013-12-03, 09:22
more like the Monthly ASS

Crikey
2013-12-03, 14:43
http://i1.cpcache.com/product/268586971/seinfeld_assman_license_plate_mousepad.jpg?height= 460&width=460&qv=90

SGT Rock
2014-01-22, 15:40
HOI,

Someone recently send me this link. Sort of reminds me of the ASS without the need for a tree.

http://shop.alitedesigns.com/monarch-chair.html

Frolicking Dino
2014-01-25, 13:13
Thank you so much for gifting me one of the ASS chairs at SORUCK. I'm working on a mod for the pole-holder to fit my hiking canes. This chair's design is ingenious. I'm in awe of what you have developed, HOI.

Hog On Ice
2014-01-25, 14:09
A couple possibilities come to mind for your canes Dino:

1. put the sleeves on the handle part of your canes and add ties from the sleeves or from the ends of the cross bar to the vertical part of the canes - these ties would hold the sleeves on the handles

2. remove the sleeves, extract the line in the bottom channel of the sleeve and use this line as an adjustable loop to tie the cross bar to the handle of the canes - the line would go under the line that is on the cross bar in much the same way that it does currently but without the sleeve. For the cross tie adjustment attach another adjustable loop on the handle with a small loop that will form the larkshead - see http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?7264-A-Simple-Sling-chair&p=318932#post318932 for an example

As a separate note - as I recall the canes don't have the points that the trekking poles do so the bottom connection of the cross tie to the tip of the cane will need to be tied on - either form a larks head with the loop or use a separate piece of line

sheepdog
2014-01-25, 14:45
Was it very hard learning to sew HOI. My wife does it but she's wicked smart.

Hog On Ice
2014-01-25, 15:44
the sewing I do is very simple - once I got started it really wasn't difficult and youtube has many helpful vids

Hog On Ice
2014-02-02, 14:46
I think I have finally come up with a reasonable approach to using a footline with the ASS chair. A footline is something I came up with a few years ago that made sitting sideways in a symmetrical top loading hammock comfortable - it was a slack line that ran from end to end of the hammock and was used to support one's feet while sitting sideways in the hammock. I think Bearpaw has a pic of the footline in use from SORUCK a few years ago. Anyways after one adjusts this line for their personal size it is rather comfortable - similar to sitting in a recliner

Anyways the approach that I finally came up with for the chair was to attach a slack line from one end to the other of the cross bar and to have a second line from the middle of the first line that connects up to the same tree that the chair is tied to but a bit higher up the tree. The second line's function is to hold the feet up off the ground. Typically both lines will need to be adjusted for the size (leg length) of the person using the chair and because of this adjustment I decided to make both lines to be DynaGlide UCRs. The adjustment process is somewhat difficult to describe but basically one wants to find the sweet spot where with one's legs almost straight one can relax and the second line will keep the legs raised and the first line will keep the legs from swinging side to side.

here are a few pics:

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5651&d=1391366166

here one can see the line from end to end of the cross bar and the line supporting the first line

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5652&d=1391366166

here one can see how I tied the supporting footline to the "tree" above where I tied the primary support for the chair

http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5653&d=1391366166

here is how it looks in use showing how my legs are almost straight - they are also relaxed but that is difficult to show

note as with the original hammock footline one will need to wear shoes with the chair footline because of the small diameter of the line

also note I did not have anyone around to take a picture of me from the side - maybe someone at the Bash will take a picture of the footline in use on the ASS chair

Lugnut
2014-02-02, 15:23
I have the picture you are referring to but can't figure out how to post a screen shot to a thread. Someday I'll get caught up on technology. I'm up to 1994 now.

SGT Rock
2014-02-02, 15:24
A picture from the side would help.

Hog On Ice
2015-07-17, 17:21
I was playing around recently and came up with a good foot rest along with a way to move the chair further away from the tree. The basic idea is to run a line of low stretch rope between two trees. This allows the chair to be attached to this line by having a marlinespike hitch in the line where the chair is to be tied onto the line then tying the chair just above the marlinespike hitch.

5864

The foot rest consists of two loops hanging from a prussic - one loop to rest feet on and a second loop that supports the back of the knees with a foam roller / pad. The prussic allows the foot rest to be positioned along the line between the two trees

5865

5866

5867

I used 3.8 Spyderline for the line between the two "trees" with 1.8 Spyderline for the prussic for the footline. The actual foot rest was an adjustable loop made from DynaGlide. The knee support was a piece of pool noodle with a piece of 3/4 inch PVC pipe in the center for stiffness and it was attached to the same prussic as the foot rest again using DynaGlide.

SGT Rock
2015-07-18, 11:12
It looks more like half a hammock now.

Hog On Ice
2015-08-26, 23:12
Well based on the last comment I decided to hang my ASS from the overhead line I use for the foot rest - it looks a bit complicated but it does allow use of the chair without any trekking poles. There are two marlin spike hitches in the overhead line to keep the ASS positioned. The front of the ASS is supported with some DynaGIlde that I just tied onto the cross bar - I will replace this with a DynaGlide UCR with the end loops sized to just fit over the ends of the cross bar and fit into the existing slot. The foot rest in this test case was the same as the prior example but I will probably change it out to something a little more comfortable - it was squeezing my feet a little too much on the sides of the feet - I thing using a strap will be more comfortable. The knee support was connected to the support lines for the front of the ASS - previously it was separately hung from the prussic the the foot line is connected to.

Here is an overall view:

5882

Here is a closer view of the front of the chair since the prior pic did not show the foot line all that well:

5883

About the only thing I did not like about this approach was getting into and out of the chair is a bit annoying - one sort of lifts the chair up and steps under the chair then lowers the chair into position before sitting and reverses the process to get out. Sitting in the chair feels quite a bit like a hammock wrt the swing side to side as well as an added element of front to back motion - easy to get used to but different than the trekking pole variety of ASS support.

SGT Rock
2015-08-27, 04:48
It looks more simple to setup. It seems like once you have your lengths figured out for the foot rest they wouldn't need to be changed much when you setup subsequent times.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

john pickett
2015-08-27, 10:50
This is amazing. Hope you copyright and patent that.

Hog On Ice
2015-08-27, 13:42
yeah it probably is quicker to setup if 1) the top rope is tied to the trees such that it is about the same height and tension at the point where the chair is attached as the prior serup, 2) there is no need to move the chair along the top rope to avoid brush, and 3) when taken down everything was left attached

wrt to patent / copyright - fuck that shit I am never going to sell these fucking things

SGT Rock
2015-08-27, 18:31
True that. Spend thousands to get a patent and then you still have to hire a lawyer and sue anyone that violates it. Unless there is a lot of money in something, a patent isn't going to be cost efficient for most of us tinkerers.

Hog On Ice
2015-09-22, 17:39
well the FrankenASS Hammock (aka the FAH) is getting there - just about ready for an overnight

changes since the last FAH post:

1. main support line (3.8 mm SpyderLine) replaced with a section of 2.8 mm SpyderLine that is only slightly longer than the distance between the chair support connections - the rest of the support line is now a more typical DynaGlide UCR to the tree straps setup - a short one behind the chair and a longer one in front of the chair

2. the marlinspike hitches were replaced with figure 8 stopper knots since I did not see any reason to leave that distance to be adjustable - there are two stopper knots in the each end of the 2.8 mm Spyderline with a couple inches distance between the knots - one knot to larkshead the UCR to and one knot to keep the chair support from sliding toward the center

3. the prussic for the foot rest is now closer to the center of the 2.8 mm line - this prussic is a 1.8 mm SpyderLine loop and is the reason for using SpyderLine for the central ridge line since dyneema lines won't reliably hold a prussic

4. the chair is hung from the 2.8 mm line using DynaGlide lines with spliced eye loops in each end - front lines are 42 inch long end to end and the back line is 18 inch long

5. the foot rest is a 6 inch by 35 inch strap of 1.9 oz ripstop with gathered ends like a mini hammock the line from the prussic to the foot rest is another DynaGlide line with eye spliced loops on each end - currently I am using one line of about 44 inches but I may replace this with two lines each 20 inches or so. The foot rest lines go outside of the front chair support lines. I rest my heels on the fabric strap and it seems to work well

6. the knee support has been removed as not needed when the foot support is positioned right - I set the foot support so that the legs are slightly bent at the knees naturally so no need for the knee support - this is much the same way as I would adjust a foot line for a hammock

photos to come I hope - I need to get a "new" camera - I want one I can trigger remotely or has a very long delay timer, can be easily attached to a tripod, and uses microSD media since that is what I currently use with the cell phone camera

SGT Rock
2015-09-23, 08:11
I need to see pictures. I really like the idea of losing the marlin spike hitch and replacing it with the figure 8 stopper knots.

Hog On Ice
2015-09-27, 17:40
another tweak: instead of using UCRs to connect to the tree straps I tied a doubled figure eight knot to make a loop at each end of the 2.8 mm line and am now using DynaGlide / 2 eye loops to connect to the tree straps and are tied to the 2.8 mm loops using some of the approaches listed in Rock's video:

JY1ipAKRUBQ

so far I've used the double twisted SOB - easy to tie but the combination of the 2.8 mm Sypderline and brand new DynaGlide had a strong tendency to jam hard enough that I could not just pull the free end to get the knot to release

I'll be trying some of the other approaches later

Coming soon I hope to have some photos to show y'all wtf I am taking about

SGT Rock
2015-09-27, 17:42
What about using a toggle hitch with an on site stick

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Hog On Ice
2015-09-27, 18:13
not sure I understand - is this where one ties a stick (toggle) to the line from the tree using for example a pile hitch and then slipping the toggle into the 2.8 mm loop ?

Hog On Ice
2015-09-27, 18:31
perhaps you were referring to ABOK #1523 or 1920 ? see attached images for diagrams:

5892 5893

SGT Rock
2015-09-27, 18:44
Maybe I misunderstood where you are having knot jam, but something I've found success with a dynaglide single line hang using a knot is this toggle hitch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwFvZDFkhoM#t=16

Hog On Ice
2015-09-27, 19:27
OK I think that is ABOK #1919 with an added slipped hitch in the free end

and yes you had it correct - that was were I was getting the knot jammed

SGT Rock
2015-09-27, 19:58
1920 looks like the same knot as 1919 but with the bight flipped before toggling it. Does that look correct to you?

Hog On Ice
2015-09-28, 11:21
sort of - first the bight goes through the loop from top to bottom - opposite what 1919 does - then each side of the bight loop is pulled above the two standing lines and then crossed over to the other side before putting the toggle in place

john pickett
2015-09-30, 10:27
I tried that. Had to get my wife and her sewing scissors to free my fingers. Bleeding should stop any day now.

Hog On Ice
2015-09-30, 12:30
OK some pics of the latest setup hanging a FAH:

5897 5896 5895 5894

1. overview
2. head end
3. foot end
4. foot end with foot support flipped over ridge line in preperation for sitting into the FAH

Hog On Ice
2015-09-30, 12:45
Some more pics:

5902 5898 5899 5900

5901

1. detail attachment of top of ASS to ridgeline part 1
2. detail attachment of top of ASS to ridgeline part 2
3. detail attachment of front cross bar to support lines
4. detail prussic loop attachment of foot line to ridgeline
5. detail attachment of foot line to prussic loop

Hog On Ice
2015-09-30, 12:52
some more pics:

5903 5904 5905 5906

1. detail attachment of foot line to fabric part of foot support
2. detail attachment of cross bar support lines to ridgeline
3. overview of foot line in use showing that knees are slightly bent for comfort
4. example of how to get into the FAH - sit from the side first like a typical hammock

Crikey
2015-09-30, 16:35
Holy shit batman. I'm lazy and stupid. I just park my ass on the ground. Nice stuff.

SGT Rock
2015-09-30, 20:48
The foot rig looks like your feet are sort of tangled in if you try to get up to fast, at least from that angle.

So how much do you have to break this one down when you pack it up?

Skidsteer
2015-10-01, 12:15
If a few deer run by in the middle of the night, it'll look like the day after Woodstock.

Hog On Ice
2015-10-02, 11:08
The foot rig looks like your feet are sort of tangled in if you try to get up to fast, at least from that angle.

So how much do you have to break this one down when you pack it up?

getting ones feet out of the foot sling isn't too bad but you are right in that its not that fast - I move my feet down by bending my knees - this spreads the sling apart some then I lift one foot out and place on the ground - then typically I remove the sling from the other foot using my hand and place the second foot on the round

currently I am packing the FAH by disconnecting the cross bar from the support lines - quick pull lines/release tabs are seen as the yellow loops attached to the support lines - then I remove the bar from the ASS - at this point I may or may not completely remove the ASS by freeing the shorter support line from the top end - this depends upon whether I am using the down filled ASS or not - if using the down filled ASS I would pack it separate from the rest of the FAH - at this point I would disconnect the tree support lines from the 2.8 mm line (pull the toggle), roll up the tree support straps and DynaGlide support lines, and if not using a down filled ASS just bundle the lines in the ASS ending up with a small bundle plus the cross bar to stick in my pack.

I am probably going to change this procedure soon however - I need to play with the idea a bit first but I think I can put the center section of the FAH into a long narrow stuff sack so that I would only need to disconnect the tree support lines from the 2.8 mm line - if the tree straps are wet they can go into a wet bag I use or if dry they can go into the new stuff sack.

john pickett
2015-10-03, 18:29
I had to go all the way back to post 172 to see where the ASS transmogrified into the FAH. But all is well again.

Hog On Ice
2015-10-05, 19:04
1920 looks like the same knot as 1919 but with the bight flipped before toggling it. Does that look correct to you?

tried out ABOK #1920 today - worked well, did not need any terminal slipped hitch, toggle used is a piece of AL arrow shaft I think (bought a few years ago from whoopieslings.com iirc) I probably would not use this toggled eye with a found stick however - too likely to dig into the stick

sheepdog
2015-10-05, 21:20
Is it only me or is this thread as understandable as dolphin squeaks or rap music?

Superman
2015-10-05, 21:48
Is it only me or is this thread as understandable as dolphin squeaks or rap music?

This is HOI's thread....only HOI's thread.

john pickett
2015-10-06, 06:26
This is what happens when you let an engineer get hold of the microphone. An engineer can only be understood by other engineers. It's like they speak English but your ears abruptly stop working! You hear sounds which seem strangely familiar but you leave no richer than when you enter. I experience this when two Surgeons talk shop. The words are in English but the context gets twisted.

Hog On Ice
2015-10-06, 11:20
OK here are the pics of what I was talking about:

5907 5908 5909 5910 5911 5912

brianb2
2015-10-06, 11:22
That's clever

SGT Rock
2015-10-06, 16:16
I like it. That is similar to what I did with my toggles when I was using them. Helps keep them found when you need them.

Recently I was trying to my Dynaglide work for a knot main suspension and I was using arrow toggles like that. But the amount of compression on them was too much for hollow toggles and they were slowly deforming under use. I made some solid aluminum ones and found the weight that added pretty much negated the savings from using dynaglide over amsteel. So now I am using amsteel with a modified double sheet bend which seems to hold very well as hammock knot.

Hog On Ice
2015-10-06, 16:31
do you think that slipped bunt line hitch or a close variation would work? - for example : feed working end through eye, wrap working end around standing part of the line twice or maybe three times, then tuck a blight of the working end between the wraps and the eye

SGT Rock
2015-10-06, 16:42
I don't know. I haven't thought to try it. Most of what we have been playing with gets wrapped around the eye.

Hog On Ice
2015-10-06, 18:00
the other thing I have been thinking of is some sort of a knot that can be loosened by breaking a stick that the knot was tied over or around

SGT Rock
2015-10-06, 18:02
I was thinking of that as well. What concerned me was that if the stick was easy to break it probably wouldn't make a great toggle and if the stick was sort of rough the abrasion could damage the lines over time. That last concern is probably actually not that big a deal.

Hog On Ice
2015-10-08, 16:15
I had mixed results with the bunt line hitch - decided to go back to the stopper knot approach with UCR support lines to tree straps. I just larks head the eye of the UCR on the line behind the stopper knot and hang from that - I have a loop of smaller line in the eye to make it easy to release the UCR. pics:

5913 5914 5915 5916

The stopper knots I use are figure eight knots.

I have also added a simple set of lines to hold my Kindle for when I am reading in the chair. pics:

5917 5918

the two prussic loops on the ridge line allow me to easily adjust for height and reading distance while minimizing the oscillations of the Kindle. The prussics can also be used to move the support lines out of the way when not in use.

SGT Rock
2015-10-08, 20:20
So the stopper knots are not in the strap but in one of the lines off the strap?

Hog On Ice
2015-10-08, 21:06
not sure I follow - going from the tree out there is the strap, then the DynaGlide UCR, then the 2.8 mm Spyderline main ridgeline - the stopper knots are tied at the ends of the main ridgeline - there are actually 2 stopper knots at each end - the outside knots are used to hold the UCR (UCR is larks headed onto the main ridgeline just inside of the stopper knot) - the inner stopper knots are used to keep the support lines for the chair from slipping toward the center

I put a small loop at the ends of the main ridgeline in case I want to hang something there (ex food bag) - these loops also make it somewhat easier to release the larks head from the UCR cause they give me something to hang onto on both sides of the larks head from the UCR

SGT Rock
2015-10-08, 23:42
OK, I get it. I was a little confused.

Hog On Ice
2015-12-03, 10:46
I decided to make a down insulated foot rest for the FAH and used a different method to put the down into the baffles due to some problems with the down eductor method (back pressure due to small project size). What I did was to take a foot of 1 inch diameter PVC pipe and rubber banded a piece of noseem mesh over one end then I used the vacuum cleaner to suck the down out of the bag into the pipe by holding the noseem end on the vacuum cleaner hose and then putting the open end of the pipe into the down bag to suck up as much as it could. Once I had as much of the down as could be sucked up at one time in the pipe I would weigh the pipe + down, note this weight, then stick the open end of the pipe into the baffle and manually blow through the mesh to transfer the down into the baffle while holding the fabric tight around the pipe for that baffle opening. After blowing the down into the baffle I would carefully remove the pipe from the baffle and then weigh the pipe again to get the weight of the down transferred by subtracting the before and after weights. Typically I could move about 0.1 ounce of down each time I did this and it was a very clean process - almost no down escapes and what little does is easy to catch using the vacuum to suck it into the pipe. I would repeat this sequence to 4 or 5 times for each baffle then sew the baffle closed. At the same time I would also sew the next baffle partway closed so as to make holding the pipe in the baffle easier.

SGT Rock
2015-12-04, 13:11
Nice trick

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Hog On Ice
2015-12-14, 09:36
I was thinking about the advantages of using half inch wide mule tape for my tree straps with the Portuguese bowline knot (http://www.trlmo.com/cgaux8wr/knots/port_bl.htm) and came up with a simpler way to get equal force on each of the two (or more) wraps around the tree. I start with a piece of mule tape with a loop tied ( or sewn) in each end - one loop approximately 4 inches long and the other loop less than 2 inches long. I tied these loops in my test case with a doubled figure eight knot (http://wiki.imga.org.il/images/thumb/a/a3/Figure8.jpg/400px-Figure8.jpg). The simpler procedure is to hold onto the big loop, wrap the mule tape around the tree and feed the small loop through the big loop. Repeat this for however many times you wish to distribute the load over - 2X is equal to using a 1 inch strap, 3X is equal to 1.5 inch strap etc.
On the last time around the tree put the small loop partway through the big loop and then pull the small loop over the point of the big loop forming a larks head knot on big loop and sliding down the big loop to cover the prior wraps of the tree. Once this is tied shift the big loop back and forth to get equal tension on all the wraps going around the tree. At this point just attach the line from the hammock to the big loop using whichever variation of the sheet bend you wish. In my test case I used a hammock support line that was 2.8 mm Spyderline and I was able to get the line to hold with a slipped sheet bend (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b67NUlzkp3Y). There was a bit of slip as the hammock was loaded so perhaps one of the other variations of the sheet bend would be better such as one of the knots shown in the thread http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?7903-HOI-what-knot-would-this-be .
After getting both ends of the hammock tied to their tree straps spread out the wraps around the tree so that they do not cross each other.

Pictures will follow if needed - in other words if you want to see pics bitch and I will make a pictorial and post it on this thread

SGT Rock
2015-12-14, 12:10
Some of that sounds like what I ended up doing with the mule tape straps on our hike after the sewn loops gave out at the stitching.

Roche
2015-12-14, 12:25
Pictures will follow if needed - in other words if you want to see pics bitch and I will make a pictorial and post it on this thread

How many in this crew could read that entire post without their head exploding let alone follow the process?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

SGT Rock
2015-12-14, 12:39
Me. But then I am a little different.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Roche
2015-12-14, 14:21
That's because you know stuff. The rest of us are here to learn stuff.

saimyoji
2015-12-14, 14:25
Im not here to learn. Im here to drink beer and sniff packs.

Hog On Ice
2015-12-14, 15:05
OK here are some pics:

5939

this shows how I tied a figure eight loop knot in the mule tape

5940

this shows the two ends of the mule tape tree strap with the big and little loops

59415942

these show the little loop end being passed around the "tree" water bottle and passing through the eye of the big loop

5943

this shows the second pass around the tree and through the big loop's eye

59445945

these show the third and last pass around the tree with the small loop just through the big loop's eye

59465947

these show the big eye being pulled through the small loop's eye to larks head the small loop onto the big loop - note when pulled tight the larks head is at the base of the big loop holding the prior passes of the mule tape against the big loop's figure eight knot

at this point the user pulls on the big loop and moves it side to side to even out the tension on the three wraps around the tree and then uses a sheet bend, double sheet bend or other similar knots to attach the line from the hammock

the following applies if not using a sheet bend to attach the line from the hammock but instead has something similar to a UCR attachment to the hammock where the UCR is attached to the big loop from the get go and not yet attached to the hammock

5948

two more pics follow in next post

Hog On Ice
2015-12-14, 15:10
last two pics:

59495950

these show how the UCR is pulled through the small loop at the same time as the big loop is pulled through

Kanga
2015-12-14, 16:58
How many in this crew could read that entire post without their head exploding let alone follow the process?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

i just go hmm and nod and then go get another beer.

Kanga
2015-12-14, 16:58
Me. But then I am a little different.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

is that what you're calling it?

john pickett
2015-12-15, 05:49
Lots of people here would make a neuropsychiatrist mumble and scratch his head.

Tin Man
2015-12-15, 20:58
Lots of people here would make a neuropsychiatrist mumble and scratch his head.

you have met my doc??

saimyoji
2015-12-15, 21:10
When I went to my first shrink I told him my story. Took about 15 min. He looked at me, shook his head and said I shouldve come to him sooner....


Did y'all know Im supposed to be white?

sheepdog
2015-12-15, 22:35
i just go hmm and nod and then go get another beer.

It's about as decipherable as dolphin squeaks.

Tin Man
2015-12-15, 22:39
It's about as decipherable as dolphin squeaks.

yeah read dolphin? sweet!

sheepdog
2015-12-15, 22:41
yeah read dolphin? sweet!

just a little but can't speak it

Superman
2015-12-15, 22:50
When I went to my first shrink I told him my story. Took about 15 min. He looked at me, shook his head and said I shouldve come to him sooner....


Did y'all know Im supposed to be white?

That's crazy....you couldn't tell all that in 15 minutes. I call bull shit.

Tin Man
2015-12-15, 22:53
That's crazy....you couldn't tell all that in 15 minutes. I call bull shit.

why bs? the shrink probably cut him off and told him to come back after he (the shrink) had a chance to see his own shrink... that there is evidence of a true master of fuctardery... word

sheepdog
2015-12-15, 22:55
why bs? the shrink probably cut him off and told him to come back after he (the shrink) had a chance to see his own shrink... that there is evidence of a true master of fuctardery... word

I don't think you should say shrink in front of a midget...just sayin

Tin Man
2015-12-15, 22:58
I don't think you should say shrink in front of a midget...just sayin

well there is no f*cking way i am going to be politically correct and call that whiny midget a "little person".... or whatever the f*ck they call midgets in the PC world today

sheepdog
2015-12-15, 22:59
well there is no f*cking way i am going to be politically correct and call that whiny midget a "little person".... or whatever the f*ck they call midgets in the PC world today

he's an endangered species

Tin Man
2015-12-15, 23:06
he's an endangered species

you mean because he's one of us?

saimyoji
2015-12-16, 00:11
1. I prefer the term midget. Little people to means they have small cocks.

2. Im okay with the word shrink because...I dont. You white fellas deal with that.

3. I am pithy and able to explain the nature of my brokenness in a short time. I was broken long before I found you folks.

4. Thank you for being my friend.

john pickett
2015-12-16, 05:17
I would rather be with midgets than midges, or biting gnats.

Roche
2015-12-16, 07:56
Did y'all know Im supposed to be white?

Michael Jackson disease?

saimyoji
2015-12-16, 08:41
Michael Jackson disease?

Naw...I think it had something to do with my parents.

Superman
2015-12-16, 09:56
Speaking of simple wood land chairs.... As you know Daisy is the manager of the Bristol, NH liquor store. NH is building a very large liquor store right off rte 93. Three smaller stores will close because of it. Daisy is being another store further north. So she's bringing home her stuff that has accumulated in Bristol. Among those things is a Jack Daniel's camp chair. She's brought so much stuff home with "Jack Daniel's" on them I should change my name to Jack Daniel's.