PDA

View Full Version : Are the A.T./BMT sections in the Chattahoochee National Forest open?



Pages : [1] 2

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-01, 12:37
Does anyone know for sure if A.T./BMT sections in the Chattahoochee National Forest are going to remain open given the general shutdown that is starting today?

Sorry if i'm opening a can of worms, but I haven't been able to get a reliable answer on this question. I've got a ticket to head down to Springer a week and a half from now for a section hike and need to know if i should change my plans.

Roche
2013-10-01, 12:40
From what I understand only the National Parks are effected. I had to cancel a GSMNP trip so we will now hike the BMT.

From where couldn't you get a reliable answer?

Crikey
2013-10-01, 12:45
Just walk in.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-01, 12:57
From what I understand only the National Parks are effected. I had to cancel a GSMNP trip so we will now hike the BMT.

From where couldn't you get a reliable answer?


There were no alerts posted regarding closures on the Chattahoochee NF's webpage. I also asked on a couple of different sites and got conflicting answers.

Roche
2013-10-01, 13:05
I also asked on a couple of different sites and got conflicting answers.I hope you didn't try the sites where people naively donate money. They are full of know it all cyber hikers who provide plenty of misinformation from what they think they remember reading in a book. These sites are typically humorless and cater to politically correct sheep who are quite helpless in the real world.

hikerboy
2013-10-01, 13:06
did you consult with the attorney?

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-01, 13:09
did you consult with the attorney?

Honestly I considered it.

Since here are so many people on this site that are from georgia, i thought someone might know for sure.

hikerboy
2013-10-01, 13:11
Honestly I considered it.

Since here are so many people on this site that are from georgia, i thought someone might know for sure.im sure an attorney from connecticut would be able to research it and advise you properly.whats better than first hand second hand information?

Sargevining
2013-10-01, 13:21
So, if there's no Rangers at work in the Park, who is going to throw you out of it if its closed?

hikerboy
2013-10-01, 13:26
So, if there's no Rangers at work in the Park, who is going to throw you out of it if its closed?

theyve got the bears on standby.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-01, 13:54
theyve got the bears on standby.

You wouldn't say that if you knew the nutjob former Yankee/Georgia transplant i'm hiking with. If the bears start something they'll leave limping and ashamed.:bird:

Sargevining
2013-10-01, 14:18
This is how it should be done when places that don't actually need to be closed down get closed down in order to provide a bit of theater:

The Vets Have Control Of The Monument (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/343821.php)

Edit to add:

Its also reported that a group of veterans from Puerto Rico moved barricades to the Korean War Memorial so they could lay a wreath. Turns out you can open an unstaffed national memorial to the public when the government is closed and not have anarchy break out. Who knew?

hikerboy
2013-10-01, 14:20
that is fuckin awesome

Ray
2013-10-01, 14:26
Trails are open in the National Forest. You can walk on them but you can't work on them.

The GATC has been told that all trail work is verboten during the shut-down, including overseer trips to scout trail conditions. So if you're hiking through a section you oversee, you must shut your eyes.

The agreement we have with the FS covering insurance for volunteer trail workers is void until the dreaded government opening.

If you encounter a stick laying across the trail don't move it. You could get a ticket written by a Ranger who won't be there.

Sargevining
2013-10-01, 14:37
Its as stupid as when they closed down the Lone Star Trail in the Sam Houston National Forest due to deadfall from the drought. You can still get a $5K fine for being on the trail in certain sections. But, they didn't close the forest. Just the Trail. So, you can legally walk a hundred feet paralell to the trail with no problem.

Apparently the logic was that trees only fall on the trails.

Sargevining
2013-10-01, 14:39
Trails are open in the National Forest. You can walk on them but you can't work on them.

The GATC has been told that all trail work is verboten during the shut-down, including overseer trips to scout trail conditions. So if you're hiking through a section you oversee, you must shut your eyes.

The agreement we have with the FS covering insurance for volunteer trail workers is void until the dreaded government opening.

If you encounter a stick laying across the trail don't move it. You could get a ticket written by a Ranger who won't be there.

But they are cancelling backcountry permits, according to a guy who posted on Hammock Forums:


Got an email from GSMNP regarding my upcoming backcountry reservations.

84 Sugar Fork has been closed for the following reason:
91 Upper Lost Cove has been closed for the following reason:
95 Dalton Branch has been closed for the following reason:
97 Big Walnut has been closed for the following reason:
Due to the government shut down, Great Smoky Mountains National Park is closed until further notice. Backcountry hiking and camping is suspended during this closure. Please call 865-436-1297 for more information.

Crikey
2013-10-01, 14:43
The difference is between National Park and National Forest.

Ewker
2013-10-01, 14:52
looks like the National Forest is shutting down also. I just got this email

Hello Friends,


I want to inform you of a couple of things in regards to the government shutdown. As of today, we will be closing our offices for the National Forests in Alabama. We have been instructed to inform our volunteers that as of today, we are not authorized to allow volunteer activity on the National Forest. Now I realize that seems odd…you may ask, why would we turn down free help? Here’s why it is important….as you know, anytime anyone volunteers on the National Forest, we require a volunteer form be completed. This protects our volunteers in case of injury. Currently, we cannot cover anyone for any type of operation on the National Forest. So please, if you have any work days or other activities planned on the national forest, please postpone them until we get back up and running.


We have also been instructed to close all developed campgrounds and recreation areas. Within 48 hours we will be asking people to leave the campgrounds and we will shut the gates. The Pinhoti Trail and other areas of the forest that do not require a fee will be left open to the public. There will be no trash pickup, bathroom cleaning, or any other activity while we are shut down. If there is an emergency, as always, please call 911 or your local Sheriff’s Office.

Crikey
2013-10-01, 15:03
Just don't drive behind a gate on a FS road that could be closed and locked. They won't stop you from hiking.

The BRP is part of the National Park Service but it is open.

Sargevining
2013-10-01, 15:30
we require a volunteer form be completed. This protects our volunteers in case of injury.

What the frik do you do with the form? Tack it to your head to protect you from a tree falling down?

The form is to cover their ass, not protect the volunteer.

I've read where they are closing down websites, too. Why the frik close down a website? I have a website. It does what it does if I'm there or not. People click a button and they look at it. Big frikkin whoop.

I can understand closing down functions that require interaction with a bored gummint flunky, but if all you want to do is find out what it says in Subsection 4 of Subparagraph Lebenteen of Section XXIII of the third volume of the regulations on hummingbird feeders, you should just be able to page through the website by your own dam self without the gummint shutting the damting down, shouldn't you?

Crikey
2013-10-01, 15:42
I've read where they are closing down websites, too.

5302

I love where it says "Experience Your America"

Sargevining
2013-10-01, 16:26
Yah.

What's up with that? Why can't the websites stay up?

Sumpin just ain't right here.

I mean, it looks like they're doing it out of sheer spite.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-01, 16:39
Yah.

What's up with that? Why can't the websites stay up?

Sumpin just ain't right here.

I mean, it looks like they're doing it out of sheer spite.

Egg zactley

Ray
2013-10-01, 19:59
What the frik do you do with the form? Tack it to your head to protect you from a tree falling down?...

Cain't speak for Alabama but I'm thinking that if 'Bama requires volunteers to fill out written forms before doing trail work then that would seriously limit the number of eligible volunteers.

In Georgia trail workers are covered by the Forest Service's Workmen's Compensation insurance. No forms but we do have to be members or under the supervision of an authorized Trail Club doing authorized trail work on an authorized trail and have to abide by all the Workmen's Comp work place rules like mandatory hard hats and I'm not getting into all the restrictions around using chainsaws. And 'authorized trail work' is pretty flexible, it just means the Club would approve of what you're doing if they knew about it. In so many words if you get hurt and you're in the right place and doing the right stuff the right way then the Forest Svc insurance will (...may...) cover you.

Skidsteer
2013-10-01, 20:39
Cain't speak for Alabama but I'm thinking that if 'Bama requires volunteers to fill out written forms before doing trail work then that would seriously limit the number of eligible volunteers.

Bwahahahahaha!

Rasty
2013-10-01, 20:44
This is how it should be done when places that don't actually need to be closed down get closed down in order to provide a bit of theater:

The Vets Have Control Of The Monument (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/343821.php)

Edit to add:

Its also reported that a group of veterans from Puerto Rico moved barricades to the Korean War Memorial so they could lay a wreath. Turns out you can open an unstaffed national memorial to the public when the government is closed and not have anarchy break out. Who knew?

The greatest generation don't have time for political bs.

SGT Rock
2013-10-01, 22:04
No trail maintenance?

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-01, 22:46
Well the Chattahoochee National Forest page was just updated and the A.T. And BMT are not specifically listed a part of the closures:

So far so good, I'll see what happens between now and when I get down there.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/conf




The following recreation areas are closed as a result of the government shutdown.

Due to the lapse in federal government funding, the U.S. Forest Service, as with other federal agencies, is closed with the exception of certain essential services. However, we will attempt to make timely updates about public health and safety on these web pages as appropriate. We sincerely regret this inconvenience. For general information on Forest Service shutdown procedures, please visit USDA’s website.


• Oakey Mountain OHV
• Frady Branch Trail
• Yonah Mountain Trail
• Raven Cliffs Trail
• Warwoman Dell Rec Area
• Desoto Falls Recreation Area
• Cooper Creek Campground
• Mulky Campground
• Deep Hole Recreation Area
• Dockery Lake Recreation Area
• Sandy Bottoms Recreation Area
• Lakewood Landing
• Frank Gross Campground
• Beasley Knob OHV
• Whissenhunt OHV
• Davenport OHV
• Boggs Creek
• Pocket Campground
• Pocket Day-Use
• Keown Falls Day-Use
• Dry Creek
• Houston Valley OHV
• Lake Conasauga Campground
• Lake Conasauga Day-Use
• Hickey Gap Campground
• Cottonwood Patch Campground
• Bear Creek Day-Use
• Jack’s River Fields Campground
• Sumac Creek Shooting Range
• Chestnut Mountain Shooting Range
• Conasauga Overflow

Kanga
2013-10-02, 00:40
Oh wow. Good information! Thanks!

Ray
2013-10-02, 08:40
Interesting that Lake Winfield Scott isn't on the list while everything around it (Dockery, Raven Cliffs, Cooper Creek, Deep Hole) is.

john pickett
2013-10-02, 11:17
" You could get a ticket written by a Ranger who won't be there."
So the ranger that's not there won't be able to write another ticket charging me with littering when I ball up the first ticket I didn't get "cause the Ranger who gave it to me wasn't there when I moved the stick, when I throw the ticket on the ground. If I can write that, I'm going to Washington and straighten out the mess that kept the ranger from giving me the ticket.

Roche
2013-10-02, 11:18
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/oct/01/impasse-continues/

Ewker
2013-10-02, 13:04
post the story since it can't be read without subscribing

Sargevining
2013-10-02, 13:26
Oh my God.

They are operating out of spite. (http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/02/unreal-park-workers-installing-more-barricades-around-wwii-memorial-to-keep-vets-out/)


Mounted Police now protecting the World War 2 Memorial from World War 2 veterans. Sanity restored.

They're moving in more barricades, big enough to need forklifts to carry them, and patrolling on horseback.

sheepdog
2013-10-02, 13:49
Oh my God.

They are operating out of spite. (http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/02/unreal-park-workers-installing-more-barricades-around-wwii-memorial-to-keep-vets-out/)



They're moving in more barricades, big enough to need forklifts to carry them, and patrolling on horseback.

Superman may be called for active duty. He was in the cavalry.

Ray
2013-10-02, 13:49
Vets are sending in sappers.

sheepdog
2013-10-02, 13:51
this could get ugly

Lugnut
2013-10-02, 13:52
It SHOULD get ugly!

sheepdog
2013-10-02, 13:53
zacktly

Roche
2013-10-02, 14:02
post the story since it can't be read without subscribingI don't subscribe but the story was up there earlier. But the picture is worth a thousand words...

Sargevining
2013-10-02, 15:10
Its being reported that exceptions are being made for "First Amendment Activities."

So tape a protest sign to your trekking pole, and you'll be good.

Crikey
2013-10-02, 15:35
I'll tape a protest sign on my ass and take a shit in the Capitol Building.

Superman
2013-10-02, 15:45
I'll tape a protest sign on my ass and take a shit in the Capitol Building.

We have an expert protestor on this site. Ask Rock Hound about protesting in DC.

cool breeze
2013-10-02, 16:34
Or at Wally World.

Superman
2013-10-02, 16:54
Or at Wally World.

He's legendary at Wal-Mart.

Rasty
2013-10-02, 17:34
Oh my God.

They are operating out of spite. (http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/02/unreal-park-workers-installing-more-barricades-around-wwii-memorial-to-keep-vets-out/)



They're moving in more barricades, big enough to need forklifts to carry them, and patrolling on horseback.

It appears the 90 year old vets have breached the defenses and are once again strolling along memorial.

Rasty
2013-10-02, 17:35
I'll tape a protest sign on my ass and take a shit in the Capitol Building.

Pictures or it didn't happen.

Sargevining
2013-10-02, 17:47
Posted at HF:


Originally Posted by outdoorsguy
"While U.S. Highway 441, which runs through the park, will remain open, Scott says people are not allowed to stop along the road at the scenic overlooks, or break for lunch at one of the many picnic areas. She says the majority of the employees who will continue to work are law enforcement officers for the parks; they will be making sure tourists don’t try to circumvent the law."

The above quote is about the GSMNP and is from this story...
http://smallbusiness.foxbusiness.com...ks-businesses/

So to the OP, while its probably ok to hike the AT thru the park, do not stop to rest nor enjoy the scenery under threat of prosecution. And I'm not kidding.

john pickett
2013-10-02, 17:55
Here you go, Rasty.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/02/new-wave-wwii-veterans-move-barricades-to-access-dc-memorial/?intcmp=latestnews

Rasty
2013-10-02, 18:21
Here you go, Rasty.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/02/new-wave-wwii-veterans-move-barricades-to-access-dc-memorial/?intcmp=latestnews

Saw that earlier today. Makes you wish these men ran the government instead of the 700 or so douche bags we have now.

Sargevining
2013-10-02, 19:05
Saw that earlier today. Makes you wish these men ran the government instead of the 700 or so douche bags we have now.

That number gets lots smaller when you look at who makes the decision whether or not to close a Memorial to 96 year old veterans, or give fines to families having picnics at scenic overlooks beside open highways.

In fact, most of the assholes who make those decisions aren't even elected. But they ARE making them because the elected assholes in the Executive branch told them it might be a good idea.

Sargevining
2013-10-02, 19:27
The other thing here is that they are closing down things that don't cost the government a thing to operate. That WW2 Memorial was constructed with private funds, and is maintained by a private fund. Its open 24/7/365. Same thing with those scenic overlooks, and pretty much every trail in the forest, every white water rapid, every river, and every lake.

There's only one reason to shut things like that down.

Pure assed meanness in is simplest form.

Another Kevin
2013-10-02, 19:43
That number gets lots smaller when you look at who makes the decision whether or not to close a Memorial to 96 year old veterans, or give fines to families having picnics at scenic overlooks beside open highways.

In fact, most of the assholes who make those decisions aren't even elected. But they ARE making them because the elected assholes in the Executive branch told them it might be a good idea.

There are only two elected officials in the Federal executive branch. But there are some interesting laws from the Legislative branch that they are constrained to follow: for instance, a 19th-century law that makes it unlawful for the Federal government to employ volunteer labor in any capacity during a shutdown. (The intent of the law is to protect Federal employees from being pressured to continue working indefinitely without pay, so it's probably a reasonable law.) That's what shuts down trail maintenance.

Closing the trails themselves is another kettle of fish altogether. But in the long run I think it may be a good idea to make a governmental cluster-fest as painful to the electorate as possible. Perhaps that means voters will remember when it comes time to decide whether that particular batch of bar stewards ought to be re-elected. Since both sides of the aisle think they will win through intransigence, they both have a vested interest in inflicting that pain and blaming it on their opponents.

hikerboy
2013-10-02, 19:46
Voters are sheep. we have short memories, and we listen to sound bites instead of doing some digging to determine the truth, which is somewhere between fox news and cnn.

Skidsteer
2013-10-02, 19:50
What shuts down volunteer trail maintenance during a shutdown is lawyers.

Superman
2013-10-02, 19:53
Voters are sheep. we have short memories, and we listen to sound bites instead of doing some digging to determine the truth, which is somewhere between fox news and cnn.

Most folks have all they can do to handle their own complex life. They don't have the time or energy left to ride herd on a bunch of lawyers that we voted to run our government.

hikerboy
2013-10-02, 19:58
Most folks have all they can do to handle their own complex life. They don't have the time or energy left to ride herd on a bunch of lawyers that we voted to run our government.

one of the benefits of backpacking. simplify.
when i quit on my boss in the spring, told him i was going hiking for a couple of months, he was at first upset, then smiled told me" i envy you. your life is so simple and you just dont give a fuck."
i was just talking to one of my coworkers who served in the first iraq war, told me how lucky we are. if the country goes to hell in a handbasket, we'll know how to survive.

Sargevining
2013-10-02, 20:07
There are only two elected officials in the Federal executive branch. But there are some interesting laws from the Legislative branch that they are constrained to follow: for instance, a 19th-century law that makes it unlawful for the Federal government to employ volunteer labor in any capacity during a shutdown. (The intent of the law is to protect Federal employees from being pressured to continue working indefinitely without pay, so it's probably a reasonable law.) That's what shuts down trail maintenance.

Closing the trails themselves is another kettle of fish altogether. But in the long run I think it may be a good idea to make a governmental cluster-fest as painful to the electorate as possible. Perhaps that means voters will remember when it comes time to decide whether that particular batch of bar stewards ought to be re-elected. Since both sides of the aisle think they will win through intransigence, they both have a vested interest in inflicting that pain and blaming it on their opponents.

No.

No again.

It is not the place of any government to punish or cause pain, however slight, to its citizens without due process of law.

Period.

But you are right. This is done to induce pain on the public to affect elections.

And that would be the second point:

Governments should not be inflicting pain on its citizens in order to affect elections.

One side has already introduced a bill that would restore funding to the Parks, another that would restore funding to Veterans, and another that would restore funds to treat children who have cancer. The other side has turned all of those down.

Another Kevin
2013-10-02, 20:11
Most folks have all they can do to handle their own complex life. They don't have the time or energy left to ride herd on a bunch of lawyers that we voted to run our government.

Are you familiar with Anthony Downs? His theory of rational ignorance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_ignorance) is nearly exactly what you're saying. The cost to the voter of researching the candidates is greater than the benefit the voter would receive from doing so.

It applies in the marketing sphere as much as it does in politics. The producers of lower-valued cars, for instance, tend to proliferate features and options, and packages until the average shopper find it too troublesome to make an informed decision, and can more easily be swayed by a sales pitch, an ad, or a brand name. The high-end producers tend to trade on reputation and offer only a few packages. You don't get near the maze of choices on a Caddy that you do on a Chevy.

(Now I know - hikerboy is going to prove me wrong!)

Superman
2013-10-02, 20:12
one of the benefits of backpacking. simplify.
when i quit on my boss in the spring, told him i was going hiking for a couple of months, he was at first upset, then smiled told me" i envy you. your life is so simple and you just dont give a fuck."
i was just talking to one of my coworkers who served in the first iraq war, told me how lucky we are. if the country goes to hell in a handbasket, we'll know how to survive.

Some will and some won't. Some just latched on to others and never learned how to function on their own. There was an annoying b---- in 2000 that latched onto one person after another and made that person make all the decisions while she kept telling everyone that it was the first thing she'd ever done on her own. She made people lie and do anything to be rid of her. There are shelter weenies that couldn't stand the ones and thank GOD for shelters and privies. The AT is mostly a bunny trail anyway. It takes more hiking skill to hike the other major trails. There is so much access to all kinds of services that most any healthy person can hike the AT if they have a work ethic that allows them to make their daily miles..

Rasty
2013-10-02, 20:12
Voters are sheep. we have short memories, and we listen to sound bites instead of doing some digging to determine the truth, which is somewhere between fox news and cnn.

That's HGTV where I live

Another Kevin
2013-10-02, 20:14
No.

No again.

It is not the place of any government to punish or cause pain, however slight, to its citizens without due process of law.

Period.

But you are right. This is done to induce pain on the public to affect elections.

And that would be the second point:

Governments should not be inflicting pain on its citizens in order to affect elections.

One side has already introduced a bill that would restore funding to the Parks, another that would restore funding to Veterans, and another that would restore funds to treat children who have cancer. The other side has turned all of those down.

Indeed - except that on the last point, I want to admonish both sides of the aisle like a kindergarten teacher: "I don't care who started it. Both of you stop it, right now." Nobody's hands are clean.

And I want to admonish my legislators, at all levels, that they represent their constituents and not their party. If their district's interests don't align with the party line, then cross the aisle, confound it! (But the high cost of electoral campaigns makes them all dependent on sucking at the national party's teat: they can win despite ignoring their district most of the time, but dare not anger their party leadership.)

hikerboy
2013-10-02, 20:15
even chevy has begun to limit the # of packages available, which indeed becomes very confusing.the less choices you offer to a customer, the easier it is for them to decide.
now do you want your 14 'vette in the 1LT,2LT or 3LT pkg, the Z51 pkg, automatic or stick?transparent or body color removable hood? carbon fibre dash" which of 11 colors?choice of 6 wheel designs.
it would be nice if we could order our politicians the same way.

hikerboy
2013-10-02, 20:21
Some will and some won't. Some just latched on to others and never learned how to function on their own. There was an annoying b---- in 2000 that latched onto one person after another and made that person make all the decisions while she kept telling everyone that it was the first thing she'd ever done on her own. She made people lie and do anything to be rid of her. There are shelter weenies that couldn't stand the ones and thank GOD for shelters and privies. The AT is mostly a bunny trail anyway. It takes more hiking skill to hike the other major trails. There is so much access to all kinds of services that most any healthy person can hike the AT if they have a work ethic that allows them to make their daily miles..

no doubt.
a few days after sandy hit, i was finally able to go back to my apartment on the 2nd floor of a 2 family house. we got hit pretty hard, had no utilities, no running water. when i handed my landlady the rent, she said she felt bad, because i couldnt really live there. i told her she didnt cause the hurricane , she was still entitled, and besides, i was fine, made her some coffeee on my stove. she looked at me said oh yeah i forgot, you can deal with all this shit. i said look up. she said what. i said just look up. it happened to be a crystal clear night, and i saw more stars than id ever seen this close to a city.after she stared at the sky in awe, she told me, you're amazing, you can find the beauty in all this destruction. i held her and told her it was gonna be okay.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-02, 20:21
even chevy has begun to limit the # of packages available, which indeed becomes very confusing.the less choices you offer to a customer, the easier it is for them to decide.
now do you want your 14 'vette in the 1LT,2LT or 3LT pkg, the Z51 pkg, automatic or stick?transparent or body color removable hood? carbon fibre dash" which of 11 colors?choice of 6 wheel designs.
it would be nice if we could order our politicians the same way.

It must have taken years of experience to say Automatic and Corvette in the same sentence without cringing.

Sargevining
2013-10-02, 20:23
Indeed - except that on the last point, I want to admonish both sides of the aisle like a kindergarten teacher: "I don't care who started it. Both of you stop it, right now." Nobody's hands are clean.

Perhaps in the beginning.

But it is only the Executive Branch that decides what to close and what not to. It is not thier place to decide what pain to inflict in order to get other elected officials to do things.

The WW2 Memorial, for example, was built and is maintained with private funds and is open 24/7/365---yet the Executive Branch decided to close it to the public, using funding as an excuse. That decision rests on thier head, and theirs alone.

You can't say "I did it because Jimmy made me do it because of the bad thing he did."

Same goes for those scenic overlooks. A government that says they are sending out law enforcement to places where citizens have picnics because "they will be making sure tourists don’t try to circumvent the law" is a government that has become drunk on its own power.

hikerboy
2013-10-02, 20:24
It must have taken years of experience to say Automatic and Corvette in the same sentence without cringing.

the 7 speed automatic is actually faster than the stick. computers can adjust much faster than a human can.in additon, all purism aside, in ny traffic, a stick is a pain.

Kanga
2013-10-02, 20:26
No.

No again.

It is not the place of any government to punish or cause pain, however slight, to its citizens without due process of law.

Period.

But you are right. This is done to induce pain on the public to affect elections.

And that would be the second point:

Governments should not be inflicting pain on its citizens in order to affect elections.

One side has already introduced a bill that would restore funding to the Parks, another that would restore funding to Veterans, and another that would restore funds to treat children who have cancer. The other side has turned all of those down.

Actually, what it comes down to is liability and lawyers. It's really very simple.

Superman
2013-10-02, 20:37
the 7 speed automatic is actually faster than the stick. computers can adjust much faster than a human can.in additon, all purism aside, in ny traffic, a stick is a pain.

You'll have to pry my stick shift out of my cold dead hand. ...and all cities are evil and should be avoided.

Skidsteer
2013-10-02, 20:39
Actually, what it comes down to is liability and lawyers. It's really very simple.

Which, coincidentally, is the reason health care costs so much.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-02, 20:41
the 7 speed automatic is actually faster than the stick. computers can adjust much faster than a human can.in additon, all purism aside, in ny traffic, a stick is a pain.

Purism Aside? It's a corvette, one of the most powerful and least practical American production cars available (I'm from a Chevy family, so don't think I'm knocking them). Shouldn't purism and skill be a major factor when deciding to buy one?

And true, the 7 speed is a huge improvement on the old GM power-slide transmissions, but I'm a control freak and don't like my car shifting when i don't want it to. Even after three years of a 70 mile daily commute on a bad section of I-95, I'm still sold on my five speed.

hikerboy
2013-10-02, 20:51
Purism Aside? It's a corvette, one of the most powerful and least practical American production cars available (I'm from a Chevy family, so don't think I'm knocking them). Shouldn't purism and skill be a major factor when deciding to buy one?

And true, the 7 speed is a huge improvement on the old GM power-slide transmissions, but I'm a control freak and don't like my car shifting when i don't want it to. Even after three years of a 70 mile daily commute on a bad section of I-95, I'm still sold on my five speed.
for the record, all the vettes ive ordered so far have been manual transmission. the guys who have to have the newest toy are paying $10k over sticker($68k), and so far, none have ordered automatics.

paddle shifters.you can control the shifting as much as you want. and when you're in traffic, you can sit back and relax.
keep in mind, that most people will never drive these cars the way they were meant to be driven.caddy offers the same engine.
we sell camaro automatics 3 to one over the stick.

hikerboy
2013-10-02, 20:52
Which, coincidentally, is the reason health care costs so much.in additon to fraud, waste and skyrocketing prescription drug costs.except for the third element, that can apply to the rest of our wonderful govt

Superman
2013-10-02, 20:56
Purism Aside? It's a corvette, one of the most powerful and least practical American production cars available (I'm from a Chevy family, so don't think I'm knocking them). Shouldn't purism and skill be a major factor when deciding to buy one?

And true, the 7 speed is a huge improvement on the old GM power-slide transmissions, but I'm a control freak and don't like my car shifting when i don't want it to. Even after three years of a 70 mile daily commute on a bad section of I-95, I'm still sold on my five speed.

kudos

Another Kevin
2013-10-02, 22:27
I'm giving it a rest. I think I saw that the site rules said 'no politics.' So I'll just say that it's wonderful that our political system offers us so many idiots to choose from, and call it a day.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-02, 22:37
I'm giving it a rest. I think I saw that the site rules said 'no politics.' So I'll just say that it's wonderful that our political system offers us so many idiots to choose from, and call it a day.

Good, now on to more important issues, do you prefer manual or automatic?

Also, where are you hiking next?

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-02, 22:39
we sell camaro automatics 3 to one over the stick.

That doesn't surprise me, though I would be interested to know if were a higher proportion of the V8 models being sold with stick shifts than the V6 models.

Superman
2013-10-02, 22:47
Automatics are for lazy slackers.

hikerboy
2013-10-02, 23:13
That doesn't surprise me, though I would be interested to know if were a higher proportion of the V8 models being sold with stick shifts than the V6 models.
the first year of production the overwhelming majority were sticks.we sell the same proportion in both 6 and 8 cylinders. part of it is price. the younger guys cant afford the more expensive model,theyre happy to be driving any camaro at all,and many do prefer to drive a stick.but we sell roughly 2-1 automatics over stick.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-02, 23:19
the first year of production the overwhelming majority were sticks.we sell the same proportion in both 6 and 8 cylinders. part of it is price. the younger guys cant afford the more expensive model,theyre happy to be driving any camaro at all,and many do prefer to drive a stick.but we sell roughly 2-1 automatics over stick.

It was 3-1 a couple of hours ago...

Big Mac
2013-10-02, 23:22
Which, coincidentally, is the reason health care costs so much.

There are other reasons. The company I work for makes medical devices. We waste more money than the federal government. (Don't give it to the employees, mind you). Why do we do this? Our AVERAGE profit margin on a device is around 70%. Yes, we spend quite a bit of money on R&D, but we could sell our devices for much less if we just stopped wasting so much money. There is no reason we should sell a device for $1000 that has a cost of $100. (True example)

hikerboy
2013-10-02, 23:24
It was 3-1 a couple of hours ago...

3-1 over all, 2-1 on the ss.

Lugnut
2013-10-02, 23:47
There are other reasons. The company I work for makes medical devices. We waste more money than the federal government. (Don't give it to the employees, mind you). Why do we do this? Our AVERAGE profit margin on a device is around 70%. Yes, we spend quite a bit of money on R&D, but we could sell our devices for much less if we just stopped wasting so much money. There is no reason we should sell a device for $1000 that has a cost of $100. (True example)

In that case you guys owe me $1800.00 ! :argh:

Skidsteer
2013-10-02, 23:48
Yeah, good luck with that.

Superman
2013-10-03, 00:03
In that case you guys owe me $1800.00 ! :argh:

If only you had Obama care.:bawling:

Another Kevin
2013-10-03, 08:49
Good, now on to more important issues, do you prefer manual or automatic?

Also, where are you hiking next?

Prefer stick, have an automatic. (It didn't cost me anything when I got it, it belonged to a deceased family member and I was the only one in the family that wanted it.)

Where am I hiking next? Hmm, I'm thinking of getting out for a couple of days in another week or so. I usually go to the Catskills, because I find it to be astonishingly beautiful country. My photos don't capture it at all well. I don't have firm plans about a route, maybe the Burroughs Range and Giant Ledge/Panther or else some of the stuff around Big Indian. Why? Wanna come along?

Crikey
2013-10-03, 09:09
When we bought the Taco it was a pain to find one with manual transmission. No local dealers had any.

Superman
2013-10-03, 10:12
Every day that Daisy had off we went to car dealerships test driving new cars. When we started she thought she would get a Fit...until she drove it. Then everything was in play. When we thought we were finished we were in the Manchester, NH area. We'd seen Mini Coopers but didn't know much about them and there was a dealership near by. We were just trying to be complete since we'd tried all the other possible cars she might buy. Daisy picked out a turbo convertible and off we went. Fuck the car salesman...the car was amazing. When I drove it Daisy asked me how fast I thought I was going...I thought 40 or 50mph. I was doing 80 mph on windy roads. We love the 6 speed standard transmission compared to the piggy automatics the other dealers kept pushing at us. By the time we went back the car had sold both of us on it. We were like a couple of kids grinning from ear to ear. Daisy didn't get the turbo because she has a heavy foot and would get too many tickets with turbo. She got the hard top with the double vented roof instead of the convertible just because we're not convertible people.. She's got 7000 miles on it and still loving it. She bought the complete maintenance package for 100,000 miles and the clear protective coating for the from end.

5314

john pickett
2013-10-03, 12:10
"we sell camaro automatics 3 to one over the stick."
Is that cause there's no place to drive on Long Island?

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-03, 12:21
"we sell camaro automatics 3 to one over the stick."
Is that cause there's no place to drive on Long Island?

Ever driven on the Lawnguyland Expressway? It's one of the largest parking lots in the country.

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 12:28
"we sell camaro automatics 3 to one over the stick."
Is that cause there's no place to drive on Long Island?

pretty much. coupla sections of the lie where the speed limit is 65, otherwise its 55.one of my customers bought a 'vette ZR1 2 years ago, has access to the track, paid over $130k for the car, traded it in a year later for a tahoe, car had 800 miles on it. said although he got it out on track a few times, hardly ever drove it. hes got a Z06 and a 67 convertible with matching numbers.
all stick.
took me out in the ZR1 once, opened it up on the lie out east.
i was a little scared.fucking car is powerful.700 ponies. shit.

Oljm
2013-10-03, 12:37
Well there you go, i always wondered why driving in the fish car never bothered you. My X would take Valium when we went on road trips!

Another Kevin
2013-10-03, 13:48
pretty much. coupla sections of the lie where the speed limit is 65, otherwise its 55.one of my customers bought a 'vette ZR1 2 years ago, has access to the track, paid over $130k for the car, traded it in a year later for a tahoe, car had 800 miles on it. said although he got it out on track a few times, hardly ever drove it. hes got a Z06 and a 67 convertible with matching numbers.
all stick.
took me out in the ZR1 once, opened it up on the lie out east.
i was a little scared.fucking car is powerful.700 ponies. shit.

What the heck did he want a Tahoe for on Long Island? One reason nobody else in the family wanted my Explorer when I got it was that my aunt had had it Upstate, and even off road. What's the point of a four-wheeler if you can't take it in the snow or off road?

Superman
2013-10-03, 13:52
What the heck did he want a Tahoe for on Long Island? One reason nobody else in the family wanted my Explorer when I got it was that my aunt had had it Upstate, and even off road. What's the point of a four-wheeler if you can't take it in the snow or off road?

Many people get 4x4 SUVs because they get a false sense of security from them.

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 15:05
Many people get 4x4 SUVs because they get a false sense of security from them.
a lot of truth in that. and when the weather turns nasty, the cars on the side of the road are 4x4s.used to be we drove rwd cars through everything, never had a problem. now if threes 2"of snow everyone needs a 4x4

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 15:06
What the heck did he want a Tahoe for on Long Island? One reason nobody else in the family wanted my Explorer when I got it was that my aunt had had it Upstate, and even off road. What's the point of a four-wheeler if you can't take it in the snow or off road?
has a ski house in vt.

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 15:06
100% thread drift achieved

Crikey
2013-10-03, 17:23
100% thread drift achieved

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Alligator_mississippiensis_defensive.jpg

Oljm
2013-10-03, 17:24
I hope you don't mind me using this pic....it is excellent!!!!!!!!!!

Superman
2013-10-03, 17:57
has a ski house in vt.

Does he also have a hot trophy wife?

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 18:08
Wifes a pig

Oljm
2013-10-03, 18:14
Pig= slut or pig= fat, flat nose, curly tail?

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 18:16
Bit of both

Sargevining
2013-10-03, 18:54
I think I might have dated her in High School back in NH.

Superman
2013-10-03, 18:56
I think I might have dated her in High School back in NH.

LOL, I think I met her in a bar just before closing time. She looked hot then.:angel:

Oljm
2013-10-03, 18:57
@ 2 she was a 10............@ 10 she was a 2

Sargevining
2013-10-03, 18:59
I might have met her just outside the Main Gate at Ft. Sill, too.

Superman
2013-10-03, 19:00
I might have met her just outside the Main Gate at Ft. Sill, too.

You and the rest of your platoon. 8)

Sargevining
2013-10-03, 19:17
Everyone called her Nancy

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 19:25
nice personality?

Superman
2013-10-03, 19:28
Everyone called her Nancy

So long as they didn't call her Bruce.:ahhhhh:

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-03, 19:44
a lot of truth in that. and when the weather turns nasty, the cars on the side of the road are 4x4s.used to be we drove rwd cars through everything, never had a problem. now if threes 2"of snow everyone needs a 4x4


100% thread drift achieved

I will be using a 4x4 to get to the trailhead at Amacola park/Chattahoochee NF, which i now understand is open.

Thread is undrifted.

Superman
2013-10-03, 19:56
When I was in Germany we had one that we called Chicken Coop Annie. Her claim to fame was doing her business in a chicken coop. Ah...those were the days.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-03, 20:16
Prefer stick, have an automatic. (It didn't cost me anything when I got it, it belonged to a deceased family member and I was the only one in the family that wanted it.)

Where am I hiking next? Hmm, I'm thinking of getting out for a couple of days in another week or so. I usually go to the Catskills, because I find it to be astonishingly beautiful country. My photos don't capture it at all well. I don't have firm plans about a route, maybe the Burroughs Range and Giant Ledge/Panther or else some of the stuff around Big Indian. Why? Wanna come along?

I will be in Georgia then hiking whatever section I can access (Hoping to start at springer). I still plan to make Lazarus's January meetup in Harriman Park.

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 20:40
What kind of 4x4?

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-03, 21:06
What kind of 4x4?

My buddy's F-250 Diesel. I'm taking the Amtrak out of Penn Station to get to Georgia.

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 21:07
stick or automatic?

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-03, 21:12
stick or automatic?

Automatic, I've already busted his stones about it.

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 21:14
glad to get this thread back off track, or off road, whatever

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-03, 21:27
glad to get this thread back off track, or off road, whatever

Andy, those marmot scree pants I ordered just arrived, so far I like them. Not sure if they're too heavy for a October hike in Georgia, but I'm really looking forward to them for winter.

Oljm
2013-10-03, 21:29
When I was in Germany we had one that we called Chicken Coop Annie. Her claim to fame was doing her business in a chicken coop. Ah...those were the days.

In Iwakuni, JA-pan we had Hand Job Hanna. Poor thing was not all there. She would sit in the park in the ville. All wrapped in a Blanket, her birds nest hair sticking out all over. As you approached her, a hand would come out of the blanket and she would say "Hand job GI, Hand Job?"

Superman
2013-10-03, 21:31
In Iwakuni, JA-pan we had Hand Job Hanna. Poor thing was not all there. She would sit in the park in the ville. All wrapped in a Blanket, her birds nest hair sticking out all over. As you approached her, a hand would come out of the blanket and she would say "Hand job GI, Hand Job?"

Damn...that must have been a turn on.

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 21:32
please refer to the following post

hikerboy
2013-10-03, 21:34
Andy, those marmot scree pants I ordered just arrived, so far I like them. Not sure if they're too heavy for a October hike in Georgia, but I'm really looking forward to them for winter.
now youre one of the cool kids.yeah, a bit warm for georgia but they breathe great and dry quick

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-03, 21:37
please refer to the following post

Noted

hikerboy
2013-10-05, 09:28
2 out of 5 2014 vette buyers are ordering a manual transmission:http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/10/two-of-five-2014-corvette-buyers-reportedly-going-for-manual/?utm_source=GM+Authority+Newsletter&utm_campaign=ebbc8e9bd1-Mail+Chimp+Daily+Digest+RSS+Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ee2a2d8e48-ebbc8e9bd1-241704501

john pickett
2013-10-05, 09:54
That's better numbers than people signing successfully for the Affordable Care Act.

Rasty
2013-10-05, 10:20
That's better numbers than people signing successfully for the Affordable Care Act.

The Corvette will turn out to be less expensive then the insurance

Oljm
2013-10-05, 10:29
The Corvette will turn out to be less expensive then the insurance

!!!!!!! in 73, I was going to get this MGB....I was 16, the place where my dad ran the Body shop wanted 2G for it........Just the liability coverage for me then was 2800.........I got a motorcycle!

Rasty
2013-10-05, 10:44
!!!!!!! in 73, I was going to get this MGB....I was 16, the place where my dad ran the Body shop wanted 2G for it........Just the liability coverage for me then was 2800.........I got a motorcycle!

I meant the obamacare insurance.

Oljm
2013-10-05, 11:57
I meant the obamacare insurance.

I have no idea how I missed that...................maybe it was that puck ringing off my mellon last nite!

Superman
2013-10-05, 12:05
I meant the obamacare insurance.

LOL, people that were polled approved of the Affordable Healthcare Act but didn't approve of Obama Care. I've been swimming every Friday at a health club. Over half the cars in the parking lot have Obama bumper stickers sand recently they are sporting new bumper stickers that say "I support Obama Care." Then Daisy and I go to the hippie health food café for lunch. The new bumper stickers are there also. I haven't seen any of them at the VA.

Oljm
2013-10-05, 12:10
My Anthem Blue Cross is going up $300. per month????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?

Superman
2013-10-05, 12:14
My Anthem Blue Cross is going up $300. per month????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?

Um....is that the AFFORDABLE health care system?

Oljm
2013-10-05, 12:54
Hell no, it's the program I've had with this company for 25 years.............NOT TO 300.......UP 300 more!!!!!

Oljm
2013-10-05, 12:57
The craziest part of it is, 1. i'm the oldest in our company, 2. I'm the healthiest, in the company, 3. i'm one of those males that never goes to the doctor!

Superman
2013-10-05, 12:58
Hell no, it's the program I've had with this company for 25 years

That sucks. I have no idea what's going on in health care except that it appears someone feels that pricing it out of reach for Americans benefits anybody.

Train Wreck
2013-10-05, 13:04
Hell no, it's the program I've had with this company for 25 years.............NOT TO 300.......UP 300 more!!!!!

Same identical thing happened with my husband's insurance. Doubled the premium for slightly less coverage. Will be $632/month come January.

Superman
2013-10-05, 13:11
Same identical thing happened with my husband's insurance. Doubled the premium for slightly less coverage. Will be $632/month come January.

Did they give a reason?

saimyoji
2013-10-05, 13:17
Because they can.

Superman
2013-10-05, 13:24
Because they can.

I don't see how it helps anybody by raising costs above what regular folks can pay.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-05, 13:38
LOL, people that were polled approved of the Affordable Healthcare Act but didn't approve of Obama Care. I've been swimming every Friday at a health club. Over half the cars in the parking lot have Obama bumper stickers sand recently they are sporting new bumper stickers that say "I support Obama Care." Then Daisy and I go to the hippie health food café for lunch. The new bumper stickers are there also. I haven't seen any of them at the VA.

You mean like this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE&sns=em

Train Wreck
2013-10-05, 13:48
Did they give a reason?

The Affordable Care Act!

no lie, that's what the rep said.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-05, 13:54
The Affordable Care Act!

no lie, that's what the rep said.

While I don't doubt that the law is increasing costs, my experience with insurance companies has led me to trust them far less than I trust the Gummint. I really think the insurers that are using this legislation as a convenient excuse to jack up premium costs and then blame it on the obamcares.
I think that I'm gonna have to go backpacking for a while to ponder everything that's happening, which will keep this comment relevant to hiking. :slug:

Superman
2013-10-05, 14:02
You mean like this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE&sns=em

Eggzakly... it just seems like our government is broken and has no interest in do right any more. I listened to a long radio program today about all the reasons we should go into Syria. Someone should ban our government from doing any more shit in other countries until they fix this country. While our working folks are buckling under the weight of all the government shit piled on them the bone heads want to throw more money at some other countries. I mean both parties. Maybe we should fired our entire government and job it out to fucking India.

Oljm
2013-10-05, 14:12
Same identical thing happened with my husband's insurance. Doubled the premium for slightly less coverage. Will be $632/month come January.

Coach Lou's premium today is 950. 1 Jan.....1200.00 approx. he has been at this company for 27 years, and#2 on the totem pole, so the company covers the entire amount...............but i would like a raise one of these decades!

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 14:20
Did they give a reason?

I'll give you one:

What happens to prices when you are forced to buy a product or go to jail?

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 14:23
While I don't doubt that the law is increasing costs, my experience with insurance companies has led me to trust them far less than I trust the Gummint. I really think the insurers that are using this legislation as a convenient excuse to jack up premium costs and then blame it on the obamcares.
I think that I'm gonna have to go backpacking for a while to ponder everything that's happening, which will keep this comment relevant to hiking. :slug:

Except now the government is forcing you to buy insurance from Insurance companies. The Gummint is not insuring you. The same government that has banned sight seeing in the Smokies has provided the Insurance Companies of this country with 300 million customers who are being forced to buy their products or pay a fine.

Train Wreck
2013-10-05, 14:32
Except now the government is forcing you to buy insurance from Insurance companies. The Gummint is not insuring you. The same government that has banned sight seeing in the Smokies has provided the Insurance Companies of this country with 300 million customers who are being forced to buy their products or pay a fine.

Hubby's company went from commercial insurance to self-insured as of Jan. 1. Not sure how this all plays into the larger equation. I just know that our health insurance will double and the copay % is less than before.

Train Wreck
2013-10-05, 14:34
Hey, Elf, what dates are you going hiking? We may be around the area during part of that time.
*bringing topic back on track with a flourish*

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 15:06
Hubby's company went from commercial insurance to self-insured as of Jan. 1. Not sure how this all plays into the larger equation. I just know that our health insurance will double and the copay % is less than before.

That's because they did the math and found that its cheaper for them to pay the fine for not insuring their employees than it is to continue insuring them. The Affordable Care Act has actually incentivized kicking people off company provided insurance.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-05, 15:10
Hey, Elf, what dates are you going hiking? We may be around the area during part of that time.
*bringing topic back on track with a flourish*

If I wanted to be on a thread that stayed on topic, I wouldn't be here!

We are starting the 12th or 13th and hiking for about 6 days, we're still not 100% on where in Georgia we are going to start, it depends on what kind of health insurance We can get (there, back to the thread drift) and if the FS roads are accessible.

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 15:11
Bring a video camera with you so you can record being Hasseled by The Man on your hike. You could become a YouTube sensation.

Train Wreck
2013-10-05, 15:24
That's because they did the math and found that its cheaper for them to pay the fine for not insuring their employees than it is to continue insuring them. The Affordable Care Act has actually incentivized kicking people off company provided insurance.

His company offering insurance but it's "their" brand of insurance, administered through the commercial insurance company that used to be the direct provider. The company is using a pool of money (collected through aforesaid doubled premiums) and the former commercial insurance co. is just doing the paperwork end (claims filing & administrative tasks.) OR - you can go get reamed on the insurance exchange program, which by the way we're not qualified for any subsidies, and the cost is just as prohibitive. But I need to shut up, I guess. I'm a noob here, and not sure if this is a moderated subject or not.

Elf, the AT through the Chattahoochee NF is open as far as I know but not any associated services such as campgrounds, etc:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/conf/alerts-notices/?aid=20368
The closure is affecting FS roads that access recreation areas in GA and NC along the trail.
You might want to try looking into this option instead, across the state line in NC. There are more public access roads so you can plan around closures within the Nat. Forest Rec. areas and hike through and past them.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/nfsnc/alerts-notices/?aid=20323
PM me your hiking dates and we might be able to assist you. We know some nice hikes along the AT in this area.

Train Wreck
2013-10-05, 15:27
Bring a video camera with you so you can record being Hasseled by The Man on your hike. You could become a YouTube sensation.

I kind of have my doubts that anyone down this way is going to pay much attention to FS closures once hunting season commences. Yeehaw!!

hikerboy
2013-10-05, 15:33
If I wanted to be on a thread that stayed on topic, I wouldn't be here!

We are starting the 12th or 13th and hiking for about 6 days, we're still not 100% on where in Georgia we are going to start, it depends on what kind of health insurance We can get (there, back to the thread drift) and if the FS roads are accessible.

stick or automatic?

Rasty
2013-10-05, 15:37
stick or automatic?

Yugos only come in stick

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 15:41
Its getting time to start getting real pissed off.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/nbc-police-remove-vietnam-war-veterans-memorial-wall_759267.html


Via William Jacobson, NBC's affiliate in Washington, D.C. reports that police ordered tourists and Vietnam war veterans who were visiting the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall to leave the memorial at one point on Friday.

After one group of veterans went around the barricade, "the park ranger told them the wall was closed," NBC's Mark Seagraves reported. "Later another group of vets showed up and moved the barricades. At that point, the memorial filled with vets and tourists. That's when police came and moved everyone out."

The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall is a black granite outdoor wall on which the names of the 58,272 service members who died or were unaccounted for during the Vietnam war are inscribed.

It takes more manpower and costs the government more money to close down an outdoor wall than to let people walk past it and pay their respects.

The Obama administration has been very selective in devoting resources to shutting down memorials.

They've out lawed sight seeing in the Smokies, and now you can't look at a wall in DC.

hikerboy
2013-10-05, 15:43
Yugos only come in stick

car is a coffin with wheels

Rasty
2013-10-05, 15:45
car is a coffin with wheels

I know. Wonder were I could get one.

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 15:47
I kind of have my doubts that anyone down this way is going to pay much attention to FS closures once hunting season commences. Yeehaw!!

Deer Season is already open in TX. The only thing they've done in the NFs is close the Fee for Use sites. The Director is a good guy. He kept the concessionaires open until he was ordered to close them by DC. Texas Parks and Wildlife does game management on NFS property in the State, and they have mandated that there is to be no on-trail camping during Deer Season. You have to camp in designated "Hunter's Camps". Two of those are at Fee For Use sites, but the Director has interpreted the rules to read that they normally don't charge for using the overflow camping areas at the Fee sites unless those sites are full. Since those sites are completely empty, overflow camping is therefore not a fee for use camping area, so hunters and hikers can camp there---about 50 yards from the pea gravel tent pads.

Train Wreck
2013-10-05, 15:57
Deer Season is already open in TX. The only thing they've done in the NFs is close the Fee for Use sites. The Director is a good guy. He kept the concessionaires open until he was ordered to close them by DC. Texas Parks and Wildlife does game management on NFS property in the State, and they have mandated that there is to be no on-trail camping during Deer Season. You have to camp in designated "Hunter's Camps". Two of those are at Fee For Use sites, but the Director has interpreted the rules to read that they normally don't charge for using the overflow camping areas at the Fee sites unless those sites are full. Since those sites are completely empty, overflow camping is therefore not a fee for use camping area, so hunters and hikers can camp there---about 50 yards from the pea gravel tent pads.

Don't mess with Texas :smile:

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-05, 16:02
His company offering insurance but it's "their" brand of insurance, administered through the commercial insurance company that used to be the direct provider. The company is using a pool of money (collected through aforesaid doubled premiums) and the former commercial insurance co. is just doing the paperwork end (claims filing & administrative tasks.) OR - you can go get reamed on the insurance exchange program, which by the way we're not qualified for any subsidies, and the cost is just as prohibitive. But I need to shut up, I guess. I'm a noob here, and not sure if this is a moderated subject or not.


Elf, the AT through the Chattahoochee NF is open as far as I know but not any associated services such as campgrounds, etc:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/conf/alerts-notices/?aid=20368
The closure is affecting FS roads that access recreation areas in GA and NC along the trail.
You might want to try looking into this option instead, across the state line in NC. There are more public access roads so you can plan around closures within the Nat. Forest Rec. areas and hike through and past them.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/nfsnc/alerts-notices/?aid=20323
PM me your hiking dates and we might be able to assist you. We know some nice hikes along the AT in this area.

I appreciate offer, but I we should be all set. I am hiking with a buddy that lives less than an hour from springer and his wife is dropping us off/picking us up. We just need to figure out the to and from. I think the plan is to just drive as far as the roads will let us and then start walking. Then get picked up at one of the real roads at one of the gaps.

Train Wreck
2013-10-05, 16:03
I appreciate offer, but I we should be all set. I am hiking with a buddy that lives less than an hour from springer and his wife is dropping us off/picking us up. We just need to figure out the to and from. I think the plan is to just drive as far as the roads will let us and then start walking. Then get picked up at one of the real roads at one of the gaps.

Good. Enjoy, it's especially nice hiking in the fall.

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 16:07
Don't mess with Texas :smile:

Yah.

Santa Anna found out what happens when you meet up with a bunch of armed Texans who you've just told can't do some such or another. You might win one, and we run a bit, but that's just so we can let you chase us to the place where we're going to kick your ass and take all your gear.

hikerboy
2013-10-05, 16:07
one of these days we have to just take back our government. they now represent their respective parties, rather than the american people.

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 16:19
Its you sissies on the East Coast that lets them get away with it. They don't pull that kind of crap west of the Appalachians. If the Great Smokies were in Texas, there'd be pick up trucks full of good ol boys out on US441 every night chucking the barricades over the railings on those scenic overlooks and picnic areas and down into the gorge.

Putting them there is just meanness, and the only thing you can fight meanness with is stubborn refusal to go along with it.

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 16:20
And as far as "both parties" goes, in the last 17 shutdowns, nobody went as far as this douche nozzle has gone.

He outlawed freaking sight seeing in the Smokies for crying out loud.

hikerboy
2013-10-05, 16:27
in a two party system based on the principles of compromise, its just wonderful to hear him say"there will be no compromise."
sad.

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 16:33
In his first year, he appointed a Director to the National Cemetery down here. She made a rule that it was illegal to say "God" of "Jesus" during funerals in the Chapel or at graveside services.

You know what happens when you tell Texans they can't say "God" next to Paw Paw's casket?

I think she's sorting mail in Point Barrow now.

john pickett
2013-10-05, 16:37
"They don't pull that kind of crap west of the Appalachians"
Make that west of the Appalachians and east of the Rockies. California's west of the Rockies.

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 16:43
"They don't pull that kind of crap west of the Appalachians"
Make that west of the Appalachians and east of the Rockies. California's west of the Rockies.

Now there's a man who's studied the situation.

I'm serious.

Some of you guys think that being a bunny hugging granola muncher means you've got to put up with this crap.

You don't.

This is your country. Those are your woods.

And the kind of guy who would outlaw sight seeing on a freaking highway will shut them down to everybody if he thinks he can make you think his enemies made him do it.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-05, 16:44
stick or automatic?

Automatic, I didn't buy it.

john pickett
2013-10-05, 16:48
This thread reminds me of My daughters pigtails, when she wore them. In and out and up and down and inside out and outside in. I expect to meet myself next.

john pickett
2013-10-05, 16:49
BTW, Sargevining's right.

Train Wreck
2013-10-05, 16:49
On the bright side, maybe the NSA isn't working these days either...

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 17:01
Yah. I saw a guy in a black suit and sunglasses out on the corner with a piece of cardboard on which he'd scrawled "Will listen to your phonecalls for food".

sheepdog
2013-10-05, 17:57
BTW, Sargevining's right.

I agree......but it had to happen sooner or later.

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 18:10
Ooooooo Frikkin Rah!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/iwo-jima-memorial-closed-barricades-erected_759277.html


Another open-air memorial in the Washington area is closed and barricaded off: the Iwo Jima Memorial, just across the bridge from D.C. in Rosslyn, Virginia. A source sends along this picture of the barricade set-up at the memorial, which is also called the U.S. Marine Corps War Memorial:

5320

"I took the picture yesterday afternoon. Those barricades had been there at least a day. People can still walk into the Memorial area, but for many elderly and disabled vets, it is important they be driven and park right next to the statue," the person who took this picture emails.

"There has been no coverage of Iwo Jima being closed and it is a routine stop for Honor Flight visitors."

The source adds: "This picture is from North Marshall Drive (100 yards up the hill from the 110) facing the only road in and out of the Memorial for cars. There are parking spots for cars and buses right next the Memorial that can only be accessed via this road. Interestingly too, the view you see is also the last 200 yards of the Marine Corps Marathon which is in three weeks. That would be 20,000 pissed off runners who have trained for months."

The stop is a popular destination for veterans and tourists alike, and, in my observation, is usually completely unmanned and unguarded. But, for some reason, it's closed to the public during this federal government shutdown.

UPDATE: I'm told, "The Syracuse Honor Flight just knocked down the barrier and a couple hundred of them are at the Memorial now."

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 18:29
The sad thing is that the barricades go back up when the old men go home and nobody cares enough to keep knocking them down in thier place.

Superman
2013-10-05, 18:44
This could get real ugly if they start arresting or attacking old veterans at their memorials.
I was listening to the radio today and the woman was saying that the White Mountain National Park is closed and there are no rangers there. The woman announcer said that personally she wouldn't want to go there if there are no rangers there. WTF

Rasty
2013-10-05, 19:22
On the bright side, maybe the NSA isn't working these days either...

Nope....they are working.

Superman
2013-10-05, 19:24
I heard that they are focused on a certain HOBO site to watch for un-American terrorist activity.:angel:

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 19:26
This could get real ugly if they start arresting or attacking old veterans at their memorials.
I was listening to the radio today and the woman was saying that the White Mountain National Park is closed and there are no rangers there. The woman announcer said that personally she wouldn't want to go there if there are no rangers there. WTF

Things have changed in NH since I grew up there, then. I never knew a true downeaster to care much about Rangers and stuff.

Of course, this was back when I93 only went as far a Concord and the Whites wasn't the place everybody in Boston and Stamford went to BBQ burgers.

Superman
2013-10-05, 19:41
Things have changed in NH since I grew up there, then. I never knew a true downeaster to care much about Rangers and stuff.

Of course, this was back when I93 only went as far a Concord and the Whites wasn't the place everybody in Boston and Stamford went to BBQ burgers.

It's hard to say what media whores (male or female) mean. There is so much horse shit being spewed it's impossible to track of it. NH is a different state than it was. Lefties have escaped from their over taxing states to come here and demand all the same services they had where they came from. There is a complete disconnect between understanding that services cost them money. We've got a bunch of politicians in Concord pressing for all the same broad based taxes that the states where they came from had. We have a one man police department in this town....now if we could only keep the Nazi state troopers out we'd have all the police that we need.

Sargevining
2013-10-05, 19:49
The fambly comes from Raymond, but I grew up in Manchester down the road from Lake Massabesic. Back then the quickest way to end a poltical career was to mention broad based taxes.

We loved the Room and Meals tax, and the surcharge on out of state property owners. It meant that folks from out of state were paying most of the taxes.

I think the biggest mistake was running 93 to Franconia Notch. Opened up too much of the State to rich folks from Mass.

Superman
2013-10-05, 20:19
The fambly comes from Raymond, but I grew up in Manchester down the road from Lake Massabesic. Back then the quickest way to end a poltical career was to mention broad based taxes.

We loved the Room and Meals tax, and the surcharge on out of state property owners. It meant that folks from out of state were paying most of the taxes.

I think the biggest mistake was running 93 to Franconia Notch. Opened up too much of the State to rich folks from Mass.

The problem with tourists is they want to move here. They're damn Yankees that didn't go south...but we wish they would. I went to Austin Cate Academy and we used play Raymond.

Rasty
2013-10-05, 20:27
I heard that they are focused on a certain HOBO site to watch for un-American terrorist activity.:angel:

No such site exists

sheepdog
2013-10-05, 20:30
No such site exists

zacktly

john pickett
2013-10-06, 15:39
"The woman announcer said that personally she wouldn't want to go there if there are no rangers there. WTF "
Sounds like she's got the hots for the rangers.

Superman
2013-10-06, 18:23
"The woman announcer said that personally she wouldn't want to go there if there are no rangers there. WTF "
Sounds like she's got the hots for the rangers.

That's crazy...she was talking about women rangers. ....oh wait...never mind.

john pickett
2013-10-06, 19:21
Ha!, Welcome to the 21st Century!

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-06, 20:34
I'm starting to get some stuff together for that hike I mentioned back in the first post.

I bought a half pound block of Robusto cheese. Any Idea how long it will last on the trail? The block is about 2"x3" with a 2.5" inseam. Thoughts?

Superman
2013-10-06, 21:00
I know a trick question when I hear it. It depends on...if you eat it.....if you share it....if you use it for bait in your trail mouse traps....or if you threw it at the kid that blew your doors off when he passed you. If this isn't the answer...ask Ray.:angel:

Ray
2013-10-06, 21:35
I'm starting to get some stuff together for that hike I mentioned back in the first post.

I bought a half pound block of Robusto cheese. Any Idea how long it will last on the trail? The block is about 2"x3" with a 2.5" inseam. Thoughts?


I know a trick question when I hear it. It depends on...if you eat it.....if you share it....if you use it for bait in your trail mouse traps....or if you threw it at the kid that blew your doors off when he passed you. If this isn't the answer...ask Ray.:angel:Oh, that's easy.

If a half pound block of cheese measures 2 x 3 x 2.5 inches then it has a density of 0.92 g/ml. So it would float in water.

But everyone knows Robusto cheese sinks. So it's bad. Throw it out.

There. I just saved you half a pound of weight in your pack and maybe your life.

saimyoji
2013-10-07, 08:35
But its not a witch.

Superman
2013-10-07, 09:54
But its not a witch.

What's not a witch?

Train Wreck
2013-10-07, 10:10
What's not a witch?

Back in the good old days, a person suspected of being a witch would be dropped into a convenient body of water. The test: if the person floated, they were judged to be guilty and were then put to death. If the person sank and drowned, they were judged innocent.

Train Wreck
2013-10-07, 10:13
Thread Drift 100% complete and rotated! National Park Closures to Colonial Witch Hunts!
...well, maybe 90%. both scenarios involve getting screwed over by the government.

Superman
2013-10-07, 10:29
Back in the good old days, a person suspected of being a witch would be dropped into a convenient body of water. The test: if the person floated, they were judged to be guilty and were then put to death. If the person sank and drowned, they were judged innocent.

...and we know that a real witch could use her power to escape or whatever. I used to live .7 mile from my ex on the same road. Every time she drove passed my house her head would turn all the way around so she could look down my driveway and see what I was doing. Witches have their ways.

Crikey
2013-10-07, 11:29
Back in the good old days, a person suspected of being a witch would be dropped into a convenient body of water. The test: if the person floated, they were judged to be guilty and were then put to death. If the person sank and drowned, they were judged innocent.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zrzMhU_4m-g

Sargevining
2013-10-07, 11:49
5324

Sargevining
2013-10-07, 11:50
Breaching the Barrycades:

http://twitchy.com/2013/10/06/families-throw-off-the-cones-at-badlands-national-park-in-south-dakota/

Rasty
2013-10-07, 14:18
Back in the good old days, a person suspected of being a witch would be dropped into a convenient body of water. The test: if the person floated, they were judged to be guilty and were then put to death. If the person sank and drowned, they were judged innocent.

Excellent method. Why did they stop this test?

Rasty
2013-10-07, 14:22
Breaching the Barrycades:

http://twitchy.com/2013/10/06/families-throw-off-the-cones-at-badlands-national-park-in-south-dakota/

I made coffee at a closed picnic pavilion this morning. I was going to use the partially locked bathroom but didn't have to go. Some kind FS worker dead-bolted the door locked but never closed the door.

Sargevining
2013-10-07, 15:24
I made coffee at a closed picnic pavilion this morning. I was going to use the partially locked bathroom but didn't have to go. Some kind FS worker dead-bolted the door locked but never closed the door.

You are my Hero.

Pitch a cone into the dumpster on your way by for me, wouldja?

Rasty
2013-10-07, 15:38
You are my Hero.

Pitch a cone into the dumpster on your way by for me, wouldja?

I had to run two miles to meet my shuttle. I didn't realize the locked gate was at the entrance not the parking lot. Ran it in about 20 minutes.

Sargevining
2013-10-07, 16:35
The Park Service tried to close access to the Potomac River.

Didn't work out so good:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/06/americans-cross-obamas-parkway-barriers/

Rasty
2013-10-07, 16:52
Driving back today listening to the radio and heard a story of Turtle Park in DC. From the stories description it's a concrete square with two turtles. The asshats fully barricaded it and the neighborhood moms breached the fortifications.

Train Wreck
2013-10-07, 17:32
Driving back today listening to the radio and heard a story of Turtle Park in DC. From the stories description it's a concrete square with two turtles. The asshats fully barricaded it and the neighborhood moms breached the fortifications.

Hell hath no fury like a soccer mom denied a play date.

Sargevining
2013-10-07, 17:34
Its looking like Civil Disobedience might be taking its toll on the Community Organizer. He's announced he will negotiate on the Debt Limit, and has passed off any negotiation on the Continuing Resolution (the "shutdown") to the Senate Majority Leader, Harry Ried. He has 8 bills on his desk right now that have been passed by the House and can be voted on in the Senate. One is to provide funding to the Park Service that would allow it to open the Parks immediately. All Ried needs to do is schedule it for a vote, I'm fairly certain it will easily pass with a comfortable, bi-partisan majority, and the Preezy would certainly sign it.

rhjanes
2013-10-07, 17:45
Washington collectively forgot who REALLY owns national parks, monuments, seashores, trails....

Superman
2013-10-07, 17:51
Washington collectively forgot who REALLY owns national parks, monuments, seashores, trails....

I thought the Chinese own them?

Rasty
2013-10-07, 18:03
Washington collectively forgot who REALLY owns national parks, monuments, seashores, trails....

Al Gore?

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-07, 23:07
Thread Drift 100% complete and rotated! National Park Closures to Colonial Witch Hunts!
...well, maybe 90%. both scenarios involve getting screwed over by the government.

And not a single one of my posts were deleted! I could get used to this.

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-07, 23:11
Al Gore?

He has more important things to worry about.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll18/Camdaman19/1111_manbearpig_and_kyle_no_red.jpg

Train Wreck
2013-10-08, 00:50
He has more important things to worry about.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll18/Camdaman19/1111_manbearpig_and_kyle_no_red.jpg

Is that a Barrycade he's busting through?

Roche
2013-10-08, 08:06
The PC nitwits are again whining about sport franchises claiming the names are derogatory. I agree with them on the Washington Redskins. We will now refer to them as the Maryland Redskins.

Superman
2013-10-08, 08:43
The PC nitwits are again whining about sport franchises claiming the names are derogatory. I agree with them on the Washington Redskins. We will now refer to them as the Maryland Redskins.

Are the Indians complaining?

Sarcasm The Elf
2013-10-08, 09:18
Are the Indians complaining?

Probably white suburbanites full of misplaced guilt, I know plenty of folks in my neck of the woods that get their panties in a bunch about nonsense like that.

Oljm
2013-10-08, 09:24
Probably white suburbanites full of misplaced guilt, I know plenty of folks in my neck of the woods that get their panties in a bunch about nonsense like that.

Sounds like the majority electorate lately!

Superman
2013-10-08, 10:09
Probably white suburbanites full of misplaced guilt, I know plenty of folks in my neck of the woods that get their panties in a bunch about nonsense like that.

White guilt for stuff they had no part of is a very weird thing. We've all paid a price for that issue. Nobody can tell a racial or ethnic joke without getting "the look." That's the part that I feel bad about.

john pickett
2013-10-08, 11:22
"Sounds like the majority electorate lately! "
Sounds from here like an administration desperate to divert attention from the "Barrycade" failures.

Superman
2013-10-08, 11:27
"Sounds like the majority electorate lately! "
Sounds from here like an administration desperate to divert attention from the "Barrycade" failures.

I did enjoy the cleverness of Bill Clinton's diversionary tactics. I can only hope that if Hillary gets to be president she will do stuff like getting caught giving a guard some head. I guess she'll have to save her own dress for evidence.:biggrin:

Oljm
2013-10-08, 11:35
You know Hilly has a closet full of whips & chains

Sargevining
2013-10-08, 11:56
Washington collectively forgot who REALLY owns national parks, monuments, seashores, trails....

To the Barrycades (http://godgunspoliticsandhammockcamping.blogspot.com/2013/10/to-barrycades.html)then!

http://godgunspoliticsandhammockcamping.blogspot.com/2013/10/to-barrycades.html

Superman
2013-10-08, 12:05
You know Hilly has a closet full of whips & chains

It seems like all those nut bags that run for president are screwed up in one way or another. The worst whack jobs tend to win. I'd love to see a regular guy...maybe a farmer...become president. We keep voting for lawyers....what the hell is wrong with us voters. I still can't figure how a do nothing, know nothing atty like Obama became president.

Sargevining
2013-10-08, 12:17
It seems like all those nut bags that run for president are screwed up in one way or another. The worst whack jobs tend to win. I'd love to see a regular guy...maybe a farmer...become president. We keep voting for lawyers....what the hell is wrong with us voters. I still can't figure how a do nothing, know nothing atty like Obama became president.

I refer you back to this post (http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?7595-Are-the-A-T-BMT-sections-in-the-Chattahoochee-National-Forest-open&p=326440#post326440)

Roche
2013-10-08, 13:37
I guess she'll have to save her own dress for evidence.:biggrin:That statement is outrageous. She never wears skirts or dresses, otherwise her testies might show.

hikerboy
2013-10-08, 13:42
It seems like all those nut bags that run for president are screwed up in one way or another. The worst whack jobs tend to win. I'd love to see a regular guy...maybe a farmer...become president. We keep voting for lawyers....what the hell is wrong with us voters. I still can't figure how a do nothing, know nothing atty like Obama became president.

Very Easy
the Republican Party couldn't come up with a better candidate than Mitt Romney.

Superman
2013-10-08, 13:49
Very Easy
the Republican Party couldn't come up with a better candidate than Mitt Romney.

On paper Mitt looked good. On paper Osama looked like crap. On paper McCain looked great. On paper Osama looked like ....crapola. ...and yet....so it goes. I figure it must be reverse racism....or god is punishing us for keeping the bull shit two party system.:angel:

Sargevining
2013-10-08, 14:02
Romney never looked good to me. He had a bad record on Gun Control---a very, very, very bad record on Gun Control. A record as bad as, or actually worse than Obama's (at the time---Obama has since shown his true heart there). Once I saw that the Party was trying to get me to ignore that in order to "defeat Obama" I knew he was going to lose. I knew most people would see that there really wasn't a dimes worth of difference between the two of them, they'd go with the Devil the knew.

hikerboy
2013-10-08, 14:11
Romney showed no conviction at all on any of the issues. Never was able to figure out what he stood for

Sargevining
2013-10-08, 14:11
Having said that, he might have been a bit better. This is pretty scary:

http://www.eagletribune.com/local/x1442580353/Gestapo-tactics-meet-senior-citizens-at-Yellowstone


Rangers systematically sent visitors out of the park, though some groups that had hotel reservations — such as Vaillancourt’s — were allowed to stay for two days. Those two days started out on a sour note, she said.

The bus stopped along a road when a large herd of bison passed nearby, and seniors filed out to take photos. Almost immediately, an armed ranger came by and ordered them to get back in, saying they couldn’t “recreate.” The tour guide, who had paid a $300 fee the day before to bring the group into the park, argued that the seniors weren’t “recreating,” just taking photos.

“She responded and said, ‘Sir, you are recreating,’ and her tone became very aggressive,” Vaillancourt said.

The seniors quickly filed back onboard and the bus went to the Old Faithful Inn, the park’s premier lodge located adjacent to the park’s most famous site, Old Faithful geyser. That was as close as they could get to the famous site — barricades were erected around Old Faithful, and the seniors were locked inside the hotel, where armed rangers stayed at the door.

“They looked like Hulk Hogans, armed. They told us you can’t go outside,” she said. “Some of the Asians who were on the tour said, ‘Oh my God, are we under arrest?’ They felt like they were criminals.”

I'm not sure, but I think this is video from one of the tourists:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQpTNuLiA8k

Superman
2013-10-08, 14:13
Romney never looked good to me. He had a bad record on Gun Control---a very, very, very bad record on Gun Control. A record as bad as, or actually worse than Obama's (at the time---Obama has since shown his true heart there). Once I saw that the Party was trying to get me to ignore that in order to "defeat Obama" I knew he was going to lose. I knew most people would see that there really wasn't a dimes worth of difference between the two of them, they'd go with the Devil the knew.

You looked too close. Don't confuse the presidential election with facts. The reality is all smoke and mirrors. Mitt was given credit for saving the Olympics, being elected governor of a dem state and running a successful business. Osama was given credit for being a neighborhood organizer and giving a nice speech in the previous election. Anything beyond that is nit picking. How different was McCain on the issues? The problem is there isn't much difference between either party. They are all about defending the two party system. For what we pay we should have at least 5 main stream parties. I would start a party to have all people who disagree with me lobotomized.

Sargevining
2013-10-08, 14:19
More reports of fines and Civil Disobedience:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/20131007_ap_ada498dd2aa5469ea65ac53982c2f0a0.html



John Bell, 56, said he parked his car on Sunday in a remote parking lot, not one blocked by a barrier. Bell, of Chadds Ford, said two rangers were waiting with their car lights flashing when he returned.

Bell said he plans to fight the ticket in federal court. He said he saw many other runners and bikers in the park.

Maine's Acadia National Park had trouble keeping visitors out during the shutdown and was issuing fines to campers, bikers and hikers. On Saturday, 16 hikers hopped a gate to gain entry to Utah's closed Zion National Park to protest the shutdown.

Superman
2013-10-08, 14:29
More reports of fines and Civil Disobedience:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/20131007_ap_ada498dd2aa5469ea65ac53982c2f0a0.html

Ya know....this could turn out to be the thing to get Americans to take back their country.

Oljm
2013-10-08, 14:31
The sheep in our nation won't do nutin'

hikerboy
2013-10-08, 14:36
Occupy national parks!

Oljm
2013-10-08, 15:03
5334

This decision was made by an adult???????????????????????????

Crikey
2013-10-08, 15:06
It costs more in manpower to put the damn things up/down, than it would to just let people pull over.

Oljm
2013-10-08, 16:46
What does it cost for you & I to pull over on this road. Is this a park service road or a state highway?

Roche
2013-10-08, 16:58
Civics pop quiz. Which branch of the federal government is responsible for the gestapo tactics of harassing people visiting open air monuments, displays and parks? Hint: there are three branches of the federal government and the Judicial and Legislature branches cannot direct / instruct / influence any federal employee with "customer service".

Superman
2013-10-08, 17:01
Civics pop quiz. Which branch of the federal government is responsible for the gestapo tactics of harassing people visiting open air monuments, displays and parks? Hint: there are three branches of the federal government and the Judicial and Legislature branches cannot direct / instruct / influence any federal employee with "customer service".

I'm guessing it's Osama.

Sargevining
2013-10-08, 18:11
What does it cost for you & I to pull over on this road. Is this a park service road or a state highway?

Apparently, the interpretation of the law goes like this:

1. We cannot, by law, close down highways that go through National Parks because that would hinder the People's right to free travel on Postal Roads mandated in the Constitution.

2. Scenic overlooks are not necessary for travel, therefore we can close them.

Superman
2013-10-08, 18:14
Apparently, the interpretation of the law goes like this:

1. We cannot, by law, close down highways that go through National Parks because that would hinder the People's right to free travel on Postal Roads mandated in the Constitution.

2. Scenic overlooks are not necessary for travel, therfore we can close them.

What about pulling over for safety issues?

Rasty
2013-10-08, 18:18
Civics pop quiz. Which branch of the federal government is responsible for the gestapo tactics of harassing people visiting open air monuments, displays and parks? Hint: there are three branches of the federal government and the Judicial and Legislature branches cannot direct / instruct / influence any federal employee with "customer service".

Parliament or Kniset

Sargevining
2013-10-08, 18:21
What about pulling over for safety issues?

Probably covered by the presence of a shoulder. The real tragedy here is that it would probably hold up in a court of law. What we need is a group that would advocate for us or allow for us to have politically oriented discussions towards promoting legislation that would prevent these kinds of excesses, or worse ones in the future, being perpetrated on us by douche nozzles with power, either elected or bureaucratic.

As it is, this hobby seems to be populated by a bunch of people who think that in order to be good little bunny hugging granola munchers, they shouldn't speak out about these things unless there is a Republican in the White House.

Superman
2013-10-08, 20:55
Regina Reiter

We "escaped" from Yellowstone Park today with jobs at Old Faithful Inn ended, but not before being scolded by a ranger in Mammoth for recreating by taking pics of elk on the lawn of company dorms. Uhhh.

Rasty
2013-10-09, 07:41
Regina Reiter

We "escaped" from Yellowstone Park today with jobs at Old Faithful Inn ended, but not before being scolded by a ranger in Mammoth for recreating by taking pics of elk on the lawn of company dorms. Uhhh.

The image of the friendly park ranger is transforming into the image of a spoiled brat government worker.