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SGT Rock
2015-04-14, 17:38
Some of you may know that for the last couple of years I've wanted to go out and hike the JMT and take my youngest son with me. Recently they changed the permit system making it more difficult to get a permit due to a sharp rise in demand. I totally get why and don't want to snivel about that. But my Aunt and Uncle who have a cabin in Idaho outside of Stanley and have had an open invitation for us for years, you may remember pictures from a couple years ago: http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?7523-Pictures-from-the-Sawtooth-Wilderness

Next summer Skeeter graduates from High School and I want to give him a trip to remember as his graduation gift. In 1985 when I graduated from High School my Aunt and Uncle did that for me and I still think of that trip often. An interesting note on that: the trip in 1985 was to the Slickrock Wilderness. Little did I know that 20 years later I would move to the area and start maintaining trail there.

So Skeeter and I have been discussing instead of trying to get into the pipeline of the JMT for the summer window after he graduates, we are inclined to go out to Idaho and do a walkabout in the back-country with a few resupply trips into civilization or at least as far as the trail head where my Aunt and Uncle can link up with us for camping and resupply. The Forest Service website says there are 250 miles of trails here, so I figure we can sort of pick a few places we want to go and spend a few weeks walking about 10 miles a day visiting those spots by connecting trails.

I've day hiked out there, but haven't overnight backpacked out there. So I don't know what I don't know.So some thoughts/questions to those that may know more than me:

1. I do plan on carrying my GPS and a topo map so I can get some tracks of the trails I do hike and always stay found. Anyone know of a place on the web where maybe those tracks are already available for download?

2. The fishing is supposed to be amazing. I've not fished since 1980-something, so I've not kept up with it. Jermm had suggested Tenkara fishing as an ultralight fun way to fish, and now I'm thinking about taking that up so we have fresh trout for dinner some nights. Any suggestions?

3. On that note, the Sawtooth wilderness rules require a fire blanket or fire pan under campfires. Fire pans look big and heavy, blankets are not something I am smart about either, but a quick search shows a blanket for about 24 ounces. Anyone have an input on this?

4. What else should I think about?

SGT Rock
2015-04-14, 17:44
Oh, and does anyone have a good recipe for trout that can be done on a canister stove or campfire?

Lugnut
2015-04-14, 19:27
I would think about bears.

SGT Rock
2015-04-14, 20:00
What i read is grizzly are extinct in the area though they do have black bear. They are hunted in the area unlike the JMT areas

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Lugnut
2015-04-14, 21:13
That's good then. I thought they had grizzlies there. I hate grizzlies and mosquitoes.

SGT Rock
2015-04-14, 22:01
They still have mosquitoes, and Wolves. We are also talking about July because apparently in June they also still have feet of snow on the ground.

Ray
2015-04-15, 15:58
Oh, and does anyone have a good recipe for trout that can be done on a canister stove or campfire?Keep it simple. Gut but don't scale or filet. When done the meat should peel off the skin and the bones.

Campfire: Salt, pepper, then skewer those fishies on a stick and lean them, head down, over a bed of coals. I ate a lot of fresh herring cooked that way at German festivals. Stove: Salt, pepper then saute in olive oil or squeeze margarine.

Could also foil them over coals but without a bunch of practice it's impossible to tell when they're done and they usually come out mushy and overcooked. I prefer to watch the food as I cook.

Treat trout like a steak: It's a great tasting, tender piece of meat that you don't want to smother in seasonings or overcook.

Crikey
2015-04-15, 16:10
What i read is grizzly are extinct in the area though they do have black bear. They are hunted in the area unlike the JMT areas

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Black bears out west are just as aggressive as a grizzlies. It's hard to tell the difference between a grizz and a cinnamon blackie, I believe Idaho has them.

SGT Rock
2015-04-16, 13:31
Keep it simple. Gut but don't scale or filet. When done the meat should peel off the skin and the bones.I've seen some videos of people cooking trout and I had sort of come to the conclusion this was probably the best way to do it. I actually saw one video where the guy uses the eyes to tell if the meat is done. When the eyes turn white he said the meat is cooked.


Campfire: Salt, pepper, then skewer those fishies on a stick and lean them, head down, over a bed of coals. I ate a lot of fresh herring cooked that way at German festivals. Stove: Salt, pepper then saute in olive oil or squeeze margarine.

Looking at the back country regs for the Sawtooth, a campfire may be out of the question unless I am willing to lug a couple of extra pound. I like the olive oil idea since I already carry that. The Salt and pepper I would have to add.


Could also foil them over coals but without a bunch of practice it's impossible to tell when they're done and they usually come out mushy and overcooked. I prefer to watch the food as I cook.

excellent point. When I was thinking of ways to cook I had considered the foil cooking as a friend of mine uses salt, butter, and a lemon in such a manner.


Treat trout like a steak: It's a great tasting, tender piece of meat that you don't want to smother in seasonings or overcook.

I like my stake medium rare. About 5 minutes on one side, 3 minutes on the other. Do you think that this sort of time would be about right for trout or is it too much/little?


Black bears out west are just as aggressive as a grizzlies. It's hard to tell the difference between a grizz and a cinnamon blackie, I believe Idaho has them.

Everything I've read has said that bear canisters are unnecessary out there, but a PCT hang would be prudent.

Law Dawg (ret)
2015-04-16, 13:34
Tenkara is the light weight and compact solution for stream fishing IMO. The kit needed is tiny and we use local insect finds more than flies when legal. Might try Paul Gibson at Arrowhead Equipment (and HF) for both Idaho backpacking info and Tenkara recommendations. The bride and I have always used aluminum foil for trail trout...sometimes with bacon if possible. One piece of bacon split and placed on both sides of the trout, wrapped in foil and dropped into the coals to be turned with a stick until done (about 5 minutes normally).

SGT Rock
2015-04-16, 13:44
Tenkara is the light weight and compact solution for stream fishing IMO. The kit needed is tiny and we use local insect finds more than flies when legal. I was looking at this for a possible second way to catch if the flies are not right. When you do this are you using a tenkara set up with an empty hook, or are you using the Keiryu set up?


Might try Paul Gibson at Arrowhead Equipment (and HF) for both Idaho backpacking info and Tenkara recommendations. The bride and I have always used aluminum foil for trail trout...sometimes with bacon if possible. One piece of bacon split and placed on both sides of the trout, wrapped in foil and dropped into the coals to be turned with a stick until done (about 5 minutes normally). I'm reading everything I can find about the technique on Tenkara Bum and searching the internet for videos. There is a good deal of information on Tenkara these days, but bait fishing (Keiryu) seems to be limited.

Ray
2015-04-16, 14:07
I like my stake medium rare. About 5 minutes on one side, 3 minutes on the other. Do you think that this sort of time would be about right for trout or is it too much/little?Depends on the size of the trout, right? I go by the fork test - when done the meat should flake. I don't believe fish needs to rest like steaks do and definitely doesn't need high heat like steaks. So you can keep the heat low and keep watch.

Pull some wild onions to add at the last minute as garnish for the picture so we can tell you that you suck.

Law Dawg (ret)
2015-04-16, 14:11
We have used the Tenkara with a small bait hook only...kind of redneck reasoning said why use a fly that looks like a cricket when you can use the real deal? The surface fishing was primarily because the times we are in the hills the fish will surface strike...and I like to watch them take the bait. Hadn't known about Keiryu fishing but the ability to work bottom grubs with split shot is something to try, thanks for the tip. My weapon of choice in tight stream settings is a 10' Tenkara because more length is simply too difficult to fish in the brush etc. I use this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw5cp1ARBio) set up to manage the line when working through the brush. For more open water I use a 14' pole.

BTW the Sawtooths are Paul's stomping grounds.

SGT Rock
2015-04-16, 14:18
Good to know on both posts. Thanks.

SGT Rock
2015-04-26, 20:49
So we have tried Tenkara on the ultra cheap route. I bought two carbon fishing poles from China at about $11.25 each. I didn't want to spend a butt load of money on something I may not like doing in the first place. A few flies and some line from Wal-Mart and a couple of cheap poles from China since I didn't know what I would like before I tried it. Yesterdays the poles finally go here and after I got off work this morning and took a short nap, Skeeter and I went up to the Smoky Mountains to practice casting. We had no illusions that we would be successful on the first trip, we just wanted to figure some stuff out before we tried doing this in the public and look like a couple of idiots. 10 minutes into the casting practice Skeeter says "I caught a fish!"
5812

I'll be dammed if he didn't catch a little rainbow. So we started drifting flies by where he got this one and I caught one a few minutes later. We did catch and release, though they are so small I don't know if they will make it. We also had a few hits and saw fish rising to the flies a few times to inspect them. We tried a couple of more spots, but once I fell in the creek up to my neck and my line turned into a birds nest we decided to call it quits for the day. It was a lot of fun though.

We did learn a couple of things:

1. Line was too short. Make the level line leaders longer.

2. Come prepared for wading. Though you can do some from the bank, you need to be able to move around the creek. I was prepared but Skeeter was in blue jeans.

3. Bring extra tippet material. Sometimes the best thing to do is just cut the mess loose when it gets tangled and make a new tippet.

4. I was thinking of getting short poles, but I can see now why long poles and long lines are a good idea. This isn't cane pole fishing with a bobber, you need a long pole and line to reach those spots where the fish are without getting too close to spook them.

5. Polarized lenses help greatly.

6. Have two lines prepared. Long for some spots where you can cast well, and short for the choked in creeks where you don't need so much range, but need more finesse in getting to the fish.

7. Find the fish by working the stream all over and then practice presentation with the fly. We found wet fly fishing was most productive with these fish.

Maybe with all this overtime I've worked lately it is time to consider getting some real poles.

john pickett
2015-04-27, 13:59
"drool"

Crikey
2015-04-27, 16:10
We found wet fly fishing was most productive with these fish.

No doubt at all.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/538772fce4b0dbf4e86c5926/538779b4e4b08dd43262dc99/53fe0aabe4b02adad6b7af6f/1409157811290/WetflyTroutBottleBreacher3.jpg?format=500w

D'Artagnan
2015-04-28, 15:29
Check (no pun intended) out this method. I've been told casting/presentation isn't as critical with this style.

EDIT: Shit, you can't watch the video from here. Just type in "Czech Nymphing" on YouTube.


dcJ4c8vXGkM

shadowmoss
2015-04-29, 01:59
That was not what I was expecting. Hell, it's about fishing!

D'Artagnan
2015-04-29, 16:42
That was not what I was expecting. Hell, it's about fishing!

Sorry -- it's "nymphing" not "nympho". Ha!

JERMM
2015-04-29, 23:50
I was looking at this for a possible second way to catch if the flies are not right. When you do this are you using a tenkara set up with an empty hook, or are you using the Keiryu set up?.


Dynamite has always worked for me :bandit:

john pickett
2015-04-30, 08:33
I dated a Czech nymph once. Wow!

D'Artagnan
2015-05-01, 14:28
Dynamite has always worked for me :bandit:

Or find yourself one of those old crank telephones. Not that I would know anything about that...